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Old 08-16-2012, 06:34 PM   #21
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

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Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
We're talking about the physical tentacles of the Eight Tails like the ones he used when he was showing Naruto how to stack the blocks on top of each other.

In that case the kiri ninja still may have a chance
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:06 PM   #22
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

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In that case the kiri ninja still may have a chance
LOL No not really, even if Bee casually strolled into Haku's ice mirrors he'd be able to react so quickly the speed wouldn't mean anything (he stalemated Minato remember), or he could calmly walk into the technique take Samehada and just smash the mirrors with brute strength. Or he could partially transform his arm into the Hachibi arm and punch through the mirrors.

Haku << Zabuza <<< Base Bee

Like I said Haku's mirrors useless they easily get destroyed, Haku's senbon are useless they get intercepted by Bee's tentacles or blocked by Bee's swords, Haku's speed is useless Bee can react to it just like Base Lee and Gai could. Haku's dramatic decrease in power is a result of power scaling.
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:09 PM   #23
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

Well define Base!!!!!!!!

How many "tails can he have"
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:30 PM   #24
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

Base means their normal form.

No tailed forms.

Base bee can technically use his octo tails right?
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:43 PM   #25
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

Welll if being in base means he can use tails

Then of course this is a stomp the kiri ninja have no chance
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:57 PM   #26
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

With Bee's intense chakra cloak Zabuza would not be able to behead him
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Old 08-17-2012, 06:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

yeah and it takes soooo long to transform right???

I also forgot that zabuza and haku move at the speed of life
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Old 08-17-2012, 06:15 PM   #28
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

It would be the best thing to do when he can not see nor hear his foe.

He can not go full form in base

And you are?

I do not even know who you are for
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:14 PM   #29
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

@Iso: Dream Base Bee implies that it is nothing but Bee in his base form, just because it doesn't specify otherwise doesn't mean we should assume he can go into another form. All characters are assumed to start in base unless proven otherwise, there would be no point in specifying "Base Bee" if he could go into his other forms, we can use a degree of common sense here. Also, Bee reacted to a speedblitz by Minato and escaped to a nearby mountain before Sasuke noticed, and what's to stop Samehada from just eating the Hidden Mist, there's no way Zabuza sneaks up on him.

@PrinceofPeace Base Bee can still use partial transformations like turning his arm into the Hachibi's or using his tentacles, all of those things are still parts of his base form.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:16 PM   #30
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

Thats what I thought orginally than others like (Iso) were saying other stuff

Then I go back to my original opinion and say that the Kiri ninja take this.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:18 PM   #31
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

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Thats what I thought orginally than others like (Iso) were saying other stuff

Then I go back to my original opinion and say that the Kiri ninja take this.
How? I've given you multiple strategies and explanations as to why Bee casually stomps Haku and defeats Zabuza and you haven't countered any of them.

How can Haku hurt Bee? How can Zabuza counter Bee's swordsmanship? What techniques can Zabuza use that can't be absorbed by Samehada? And even if they magically manage to hurt Bee, what prevents Samehada from just using the chakra it absorbed to heal Bee? Please explain.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:23 PM   #32
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

How would B notice the senbon coming to attack him?
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:30 PM   #33
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

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Originally Posted by Iso:Dream View Post
This was my initial logic.

However BG defaults clearly state restrictions should be put into OP regardless of how obvious it might seem.

By eat the mist you mean...? It's hard for me to believe he can swallow air vapor.

I also find it difficult to believe Bee would try that initially.
Mist is not air, it's water vapor condensed to the point that it reduces visibility, and Hidden Mist is a ninja technique infused with chakra so I don't see why Samehada wouldn't just chomp right through it. That seems like a perfectly logical thing to do. Mist blocks his vision, Bee gets rid of the obstruction. I don't even see why this thread is still serious. Bee is way stronger than both of these guys.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:33 PM   #34
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

But how will B notice the senobon in time to react to it??
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Old 08-18-2012, 05:20 AM   #35
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haku Uchiha View Post
Bee wins he has samehada and is a better swordsman
Samehada absorbs Mist? Perhaps.

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I also forgot that zabuza and haku move at the speed of life
If you mean speed of light.
No he does not.

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But how will B notice the senobon in time to react to it??
Even Land of Waves Sasuke with immature sharingan reacted to it.

Let alone Kyuubi Naruto .

Why not bee as well?
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:42 AM   #36
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

B would not be able to see the senbon in the mist

Samehada has never been shown to abosrb mist effect jutsu. Samehada can not abosrb it thats like saying he can abosrob genjutsu or other elemental field effects.

B does not have sensing skillz so I do not see him reacting to zabuza in the mist or senbon hidden in the mist
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:17 AM   #37
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

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B would not be able to see the senbon in the mist

Samehada has never been shown to abosrb mist effect jutsu. Samehada can not abosrb it thats like saying he can abosrob genjutsu or other elemental field effects.

B does not have sensing skillz so I do not see him reacting to zabuza in the mist or senbon hidden in the mist
I see this argument used against Samehada so much.."we haven't seen it absorb...so we assume it can't." That's Samehada's ability it can absorb ambient chakra and chakra enfused into techniques. Hidden Mist is a suiton technique where the user imbues water vapor with his or her chakra to cloud the opponent's field of vision, it has to have chakra in it. Samehada absorbed Bee's lightning chakra, Itachi's fire chakra, and Asuma's wind chakra why on earth would it not be able to absorb the mist.

It doesn't matter if Bee has sensing skills he has A and Minato level reaction time that means there's no way in hell Zabuza is sneaking up on him. Itachi who is faster than Zabuza tried that same thing, he put Bee in a genjutsu and then tried to attack from a blind spot. When Naruto tried to warn Bee to watch his back Bee already said he knew Itachi was there and turned around to try to cut him in half.

Not to mention those senbon won't do anything to Bee's tentacles.

There are too many ways for Bee to win. If he fights Zabuza straight up Samehada > Kubikiribōchō and Bee > Zabuza in kenjutsu, or Bee uses seven swords dance while flowing lightning through his blades making the attacks unguardable and deadly. If he fights Zabuza long range he uses Samehada to absorb any suiton techniques until Zabuza gets tired. Bee uses the chakra he's absorbed to heal any damage he's taken (if he's even gotten hurt yet), and then goes in for the kill. Haku is utterly useless here. Senbon get blocked by tails or just Bee's natural reflexes with his swords, and mirrors get broken by Bee's strength.

Quote:
But how will B notice the senobon in time to react to it??
You're joking right? You do remember that Sasuke with his basic sharingan (one of them only had ONE tomoe) could see and react to those needles. The complete version of that same sharingan was rolling in circles while Sasuke got mindf***** by Bee's kenjutsu after three years of forbidden training by Orochimaru that increased his speed and taijutsu proficiency enormously.
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:14 PM   #38
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

Haku was holding back and Zabuza can make the mist think enough so B can not see the senbon.

Haku can make an ice dome around b to try and trap him or defend himself against attacks. How does B break through it

(Haku is the real threat Idc about Zabuza. I wish we could use anime feats. WHY DO PPL NOT USE/LIKE THEM. If this was anime feats Haku could POSSIBLY SOLO)
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Old 08-18-2012, 03:08 PM   #39
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

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Zabuza can just cut off his tails, can't he? A Chidori Sharp Spear was enough to cut them. And Hidden Mist is gonna confuse Bee's concentration with his 8 swords.
Chidori sharp spear = Concentrated high end nature manipulation
Kirikubotchi (idc how you spell it) = dull iron blade


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iso:Dream View Post
The chance behind bee transforming into cloak against an opponent he has no knowledge on is a rather low percentage.

So he sees this dude with a big ass giant blade attached to his back then he disappears seems like a good chance to transform into cloakform to not get unpleasantly suprised.

Regardless, he would likely go full form and blast out/whirlwind the mist, as being in cloak makes no sense against an opponent he cannot see. I already mentioned this as a possibility.

So u have this shield which guards from all directions and an opponent of who you dont know from where he is going to strike. Makes plenty of sense to me.And if bee logic fails him there is always the more strategic hachibi.
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By eat the mist you mean...? It's hard for me to believe he can swallow air vapor.

It also swallowed eletricity from bee electric pencils so water vapor doesnt seem far fetched.
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Haku was holding back and Zabuza can make the mist think enough so B can not see the senbon.

Bee has tanked things way worse then hakus senbon. He probably takes A s Iron Claw on a daily basis. Also temporarely Tanked Amaterasu. Taka Sauces Taijutsu. Kisames Swordplay and Water assault etc.

How do measily senbon even compare to that. Bee durability reduces those senbon to accupuncture needles.

And Bee has Superior reaction feats compared to both sasuke and kyuubi naruto who respectively fought equally and curbstomped haku and his needles. Note that they were mere genin. On their first important mission.



Haku can make an ice dome around b to try and trap him or defend himself against attacks. How does B break through it.

He just lariats his way through. If thats not enough there is always bees hachibi tails and fists which should do the trick.

(Haku is the real threat Idc about Zabuza. I wish we could use anime feats. WHY DO PPL NOT USE/LIKE THEM. If this was anime feats Haku could POSSIBLY SOLO)

Because these are made up by some fat guy in the animation studio who has no knowledge of the narutoverse and often ends up contradicting it. And there not Canon(which is the reason for the above)
Really Bee Kicks their ass in every way and when all would fail (which wont happen) There is always ink clones and the ink spray thingy(whatever its called) Zabuza isnt the only one who can obstruct vision.
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Old 08-18-2012, 04:51 PM   #40
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Default Re: Zabuza and Haku vs. Base Bee

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Originally Posted by Iso:Dream View Post
The distance is 17 meters, and Samehada cannot chomp through all of the mist.

Regardless of whether or not Bee is stronger, he has an obvious blind spot from behind just like anyone else.

I still find it hard to believe Bee initially goes to eat the mist with Samehada before being attacked at a mere 17 meter distance, he has no knowledge Zabuza can hunt in it.

Bottom line being Haku and Zabuza start invisible and know where Killer Bee is, there is 17 meter distance, they have knowledge. Not a stomp in the least.
Ok one more time for those who didn't read it BEE....REACTED...TO...MINATO the fastest ninja in the Narutoverse could not assassinate Bee. Any sort of sneak attack feat is not gonna work at all. I won't continue this debate if you ignore my points. Itachi who is notably faster than Zabuza tried to attack Bee from a blindspot as well and had to duck to avoid a sword slash through the stomach. On top of that Samehada can easily clear enough of a radius that Bee can see whatever is coming at him. And you saying Bee doesn't think to use his primary weapon to clear an elemental ninjutsu when he's demonstrated in his last two fights that he's incorporated it into his offense is a joke.

Quote:
Haku was holding back and Zabuza can make the mist think enough so B can not see the senbon.

Haku can make an ice dome around b to try and trap him or defend himself against attacks. How does B break through it

(Haku is the real threat Idc about Zabuza. I wish we could use anime feats. WHY DO PPL NOT USE/LIKE THEM. If this was anime feats Haku could POSSIBLY SOLO)
1.) Samehada clears the mist

2.) Again with Haku. Bee puts up a shield to guard his vital points with his tentacles. Senbon don't even make a scratch in those huge things.

3.) How does Bee break through the ice dome??? You guys are killing me here. He walks over with a partially transformed fist that was strong enough to launch Gai half way across Turtle Island and knocked A flat on his a$$ and punches a giant hole in that stupid dome OR he uses his already formidable physical strength and smashes Samehada into it OR he uses his lightning swords to cut through it.

4.) This thread is a stomp idc if you added anime feats.


Ok maybe I'm not being clear enough so let me provide a number of concise strategies Bee uses to win.

1.) Kenjutsu with Vibrating Blades. Bee uses his superior strength, speed, and swordsmanship along with his lightning nature which makes his swords unblockable to beat Haku and Zabuza up close. With his swords he reacted to Minato, pushed back Itachi, and fought off a a suped up Edo jinchuuriki that possessed sharingan and rinnegan, therefore there is no way any senbon is going to touch him especially when he's in the middle of his seven swords dance.

2.) Samehada. That sword is already superior to Zabuza's and it can eat through any ninjutsu that gets thrown at Bee. None of Zabuza's water techniques will work, neither will Hidden Mist work anywhere near Bee. Bee is already insanely strong with just brute force along with Samehada's ability he can smash through any of Haku's ice mirrors.

3.) Partial Transformations. His tentacles which can easily crush rocks and pin down a giant ape will be able to block any incoming senbon, they can also go underground for sneak attacks. Meanwhile if Bee transforms his normal fists into Hachibi fists he becomes top tier in the strength department making any punch he lands a one hit KO and making any ice techniques useless.

4.) Ink Clones. If Bee just makes 10 ink clones Zabuza and Haku are finished. They have no intel on how the clones work and as soon as they try to take them out with taijutsu the clones just melt onto their bodies and hold them still, sealing them and ending the match. And before the predictable counterpoints of "Haku just kills them with senbon" come about, those clones are physical beings just like Naruto's Kage Bunshin, they can dodge, block, and react just like the original.
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