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View Poll Results: DID YOU LIKE THIS?
yes very informative 2 13.33%
no, not really 4 26.67%
im not a fan of Obito = Madara 2 13.33%
i like it even though i dont like obito = madara 3 20.00%
interesting, just interesting 1 6.67%
awesome 0 0%
you know i never really noticed some of those things! 1 6.67%
the best theory is the obito = madara theory 0 0%
not good at all [please do not click lol] 1 6.67%
its ok 1 6.67%
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:21 AM   #281
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Default Re: You got to be kidding me. Obito is Tobi

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Originally Posted by Wooster View Post
Not if Tobi was caught in a time wrap.

I hear avalanches are really inchoate worm holes.
I would be amaze if Tobi's S/T jutsu explanation is wormhole..
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:49 AM   #282
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Default Re: You got to be kidding me. Obito is Tobi

So Tobi's S/T Jutsu works like this:

creates a wormhole in front of him using his eye for just a few seconds and he enters it.
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:49 PM   #283
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Default Re: You got to be kidding me. Obito is Tobi

No reason it couldn't be true. In fact, if Kishi does make Tobi Obito, I hope he does have Obito travel back in time.
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:51 PM   #284
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Default Re: You got to be kidding me. Obito is Tobi

Well, If Sasuke can can make a chidori needle the size of a Higgs boson, he can make a wormhole.
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Old 07-27-2012, 02:11 PM   #285
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Default Re: You got to be kidding me. Obito is Tobi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooster View Post
No reason it couldn't be true. In fact, if Kishi does make Tobi Obito, I hope he does have Obito travel back in time.
Not really neccessary, I believe a part of Tobi was portrayed by Madara until Obito (if he is Tobi) was the right age and appropriate for the job.
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Old 07-27-2012, 04:04 PM   #286
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Default Re: You got to be kidding me. Obito is Tobi

Quote:
I only say what it is obvious Kishi is saying. Before this Kishi probably didn't even know who he was gonna make Tobi.

They aren't stupid; they just believe Kishi is a decent storyteller. He once was...
A convenient lie to cover up your incompetence to see the signs and workings of story telling.
If Kishi really is that bad of a story teller, why then, WHY THEN, did you post 32.000 posts in a forum dedicated to Naruto? It makes you either the biggest fool i've ever witnessed, or a liar.

Everything that happens now, was already clear to him 2 years ago.
Thats why everything i have predicted has happened. And the rest will happen as well.
I never simply said that Obito was Tobi, no, i even stated how it would be revealed. My point isn't my skill in predicting the story, but showing that he had a clear idea of the story, else i couldn't possible predict it like that.

The rest of what i've foretold will happen, you may continue to deny his skill in story telling, but you're really only trying to deny reality. It's sad. Really.
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:59 PM   #287
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Default Re: You got to be kidding me. Obito is Tobi

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Originally Posted by Kyūbi no Yōko View Post
Not really neccessary, I believe a part of Tobi was portrayed by Madara until Obito (if he is Tobi) was the right age and appropriate for the job.
That's very possible but of course skeptics will bring up the fact that if you believe in the Tobi is Obito theory then it had to be Obito during the attack on Konoha the day Naruto was born because he was using S/T ninjutsu and he displayed some sort of Zetsu like substance after Minato hit him with Rasengan on the side where Obito had been crushed. If Madara acted as Tobi for a while then all the chronological disputes could be put to rest. And I don't see why Madara wouldn't have taken on a new identity. He was a refugee trying to plot his revenge while not being spotted, putting on a mask and becoming a new villain seems like a great idea then once Madara died and passed the torch and his plan on to Obito, Obito could keep the alias to hide his own identity.

I'll try to generally address the objections I usually see.

Age Difference During Minato Attack
Ok so I don't see why everyone is having this big problem with Obito "looking like a grown man." Kakashi and Gai were teenagers but they'd grown a little taller at that time. Minato wasn't a giant to begin with, actually in a picture where they have all of Naruto's close mentors I think Minato is third shortest, above Old Hiruzen and Naruto but right below adult Kakashi. In the team picture Obito was already the tallest in the group. Growing the three to five inches he'd need to be Minato's height doesn't seem like some ridiculous feat over the course of a year to a year and a half for a teenager in the middle of puberty!!! Shino and Chouji grew to be taller than a fully grown Yamato over the time skip too. This seems to be a pretty weak objection imo.

Skill Difference During Minato Attack
Alright so how did Tobi go from scrub that struggled against a somewhat skilled Iwa jonin to god level ninja fighting on par with his old master who was considered an unsurpassable genius. Well from the man who ALMOST knows everything of course, Madara. I do understand it would be the biggest jump in the series but I don't see why everyone is freaking out that someone became S class in a short period of time. With the right motivation and an extremely powerful teacher it really isn't that difficult.

Look at how much Naruto and Sasuke grew in just a month under the tutelage of Jiraiya and Kakashi. They hopped from genin to chuunin level fairly quickly. In their fight at the Valley of End they were both fighting at least at a jonin level because of their drive and passion. After two years of training with Oro, Sasuke jumped from chuunin level to low tier S class mastering genjutsu, excelling in ninjutsu, and becoming proficient at kenjutsu, maintaining his sharingan, and using Cursed Seal.

Obito was a chuunin who'd just unlocked his sharingan around the time of his death. Now imagine him learning how to control his new power by a legend who basically founded the entire clan. A guy who knew the secrets of MS, lived in early Konoha, probably witnessed Tobirama and his Space-Time Ninjutsu, fought against Hashirama twice, read the sacred Uchiha tablet, etc. Madara would probably be the most knowledgeable and powerful teacher any shinobi can imagine. Making Obito that strong in a year and a half seems within his power.

Surviving the Rock Crushing Him and Becoming Evil

This one's a little tough because it seemed like Rin was holding Obito's hand and watching him die. But she could've easily gotten distracted by the huge group of Iwa shinobi that showed up to ambush them. If Obito managed to survive just an hour or two that would've been enough time for Madara and Zetsu to show up. Zetsu fuses one of his clones with Obito's body and Madara takes him back where Obito heals. After that it would be easy for Madara to corrupt Obito by slowly nudging him down the path of evil, just like Tobi did to Sasuke, it would probably explain why Tobi was so good at it.

With the basic part explained it's just up to Kishi to fill in the blanks with whatever flashbacks he finds necessary for Obito. Maybe he watched Kakashi fail to protect Rin. Maybe his experience with the war made him realize how horrible the shinobi world is. Maybe after talking to Madara he felt like he'd been sacrificed like a pawn for a village that was corrupt to begin with. Kishi can come up with a dozen explanations.
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:38 AM   #288
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Default Re: You got to be kidding me. Obito is Tobi

Biggest problem is that Kisame saw Tobi, twice. Once after Itachi died AND back when Zabuza was a kid i.e. Obito is a kid then.

*shrugs*
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Old 07-28-2012, 02:59 PM   #289
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Default Re: You got to be kidding me. Obito is Tobi

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post

Surviving the Rock Crushing Him and Becoming Evil

This one's a little tough because it seemed like Rin was holding Obito's hand and watching him die. But she could've easily gotten distracted by the huge group of Iwa shinobi that showed up to ambush them. If Obito managed to survive just an hour or two that would've been enough time for Madara and Zetsu to show up. Zetsu fuses one of his clones with Obito's body and Madara takes him back where Obito heals. After that it would be easy for Madara to corrupt Obito by slowly nudging him down the path of evil, just like Tobi did to Sasuke, it would probably explain why Tobi was so good at it.
It always seems like whether anyone mentions Obito being Tobi they only mention the rocks falling on Obito. But that is the anime, not the manga.

In the manga the rocks fall. But in the next issue, after Rin does the surgery, there is a second jutsu performed by multiple shinobi that cause the rocks to crush together. It is drawn like they are closing in around Tobi. That's from a jutsu, not gravity. But I've never gotten a single response to this point. Or the logic of shinobi, in a time of war, banning together and failing to kill a young disgrace of a Uchiha. Why did the jutsu fail?

The next is that Konoha would have recovered the body. There is a small chance Kishi has underestimated us and that we wouldn't notice the lack of mentioning how Obito's body disappeared.

And if you are a Obito = Tobi supporter you pretty much have to take the stance that Kishi underestimates his readers.

But that's not the only MUST for Tobi = Obito acceptance.

You must accept that Nagato's rinnes are not given by Madara or Tobi, unless you claim Tobi can time travel. Which is a stupid way to solve any plot issue.

Madara has no reason to lie about dying soon after unlocking the rinnegan or thinking of nagato as a brat. If you believe that Tobi = Obito you cannot believe that the rinnegans came from Madara. Because Madara and Tobi both had an Eye of the Moon plan, knew each other ("him" )and Madara died a long time ago. Obito can't have that plan if Madara dies after giving the rinnegan to Nagato or Tobi passes it to Nagato. Unless you want to say Tobi = Obito and Obito can time travel.

So Tobi = Obito means Kishi has to throw out the idea of Nagato's eyes not being his own (Tobi lied) and that Shinobi do not dig up their fallen.

Other age/size/hair/jutsu strength are subjective, but these points are much less so.
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Last edited by paradigm1977; 07-28-2012 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 07-28-2012, 05:58 PM   #290
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Default Re: Topics involving Obito being Tobi.

Quote:
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Bro this thread shouldn't even exist because tobi is prolly not obito o_0 .. no offense
But they do have the right to express their theories because we don't know if Tobi is Obito or not.
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:21 PM   #291
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Default Re: You got to be kidding me. Obito is Tobi

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradigm1977 View Post
It always seems like whether anyone mentions Obito being Tobi they only mention the rocks falling on Obito. But that is the anime, not the manga.

In the manga the rocks fall. But in the next issue, after Rin does the surgery, there is a second jutsu performed by multiple shinobi that cause the rocks to crush together. It is drawn like they are closing in around Tobi. That's from a jutsu, not gravity. But I've never gotten a single response to this point. Or the logic of shinobi, in a time of war, banning together and failing to kill a young disgrace of a Uchiha. Why did the jutsu fail?

The next is that Konoha would have recovered the body. There is a small chance Kishi has underestimated us and that we wouldn't notice the lack of mentioning how Obito's body disappeared.

And if you are a Obito = Tobi supporter you pretty much have to take the stance that Kishi underestimates his readers.

But that's not the only MUST for Tobi = Obito acceptance.

You must accept that Nagato's rinnes are not given by Madara or Tobi, unless you claim Tobi can time travel. Which is a stupid way to solve any plot issue.

Madara has no reason to lie about dying soon after unlocking the rinnegan or thinking of nagato as a brat. If you believe that Tobi = Obito you cannot believe that the rinnegans came from Madara. Because Madara and Tobi both had an Eye of the Moon plan, knew each other ("him" )and Madara died a long time ago. Obito can't have that plan if Madara dies after giving the rinnegan to Nagato or Tobi passes it to Nagato. Unless you want to say Tobi = Obito and Obito can time travel.

So Tobi = Obito means Kishi has to throw out the idea of Nagato's eyes not being his own (Tobi lied) and that Shinobi do not dig up their fallen.

Other age/size/hair/jutsu strength are subjective, but these points are much less so.
Good points. Well I think I'll start with the one I think is easiest to address.
I doubt that Konoha went back to the battlefield and dug up a body among hundreds of rocks. Imagine how many people must have died during that war do you really think they spent THAT much time searching for one kid. It's probably just like real life, you try your best but after a while you just call it off. It's not like most of the ninja get individual graves anyways their names all get carved on that one memorial stone. Not to mention Kakashi is very secretive about his personal life, we don't know about Rin, a lot of his ANBU missions, how he got MS...things of that nature. Him not mentioning that they never found Obito's body seems like a minor detail especially since finding the body doesn't even provide closure since Kakashi saw Obito die.

Hmmm the rocks falling would be a hard one to cover up, I think Kishi would have to answer that in a flashback. Maybe Obito was down there and he whispered up asking for help later that day and Madara and Zetsu happened to hear him as they passed by. We've already seen how certain strong willed shinobi can push on even in the bleakest circumstances. There were already plenty of rocks on top of Obito I don't see how a few more would've made a difference it just seems like a burial to me.

Finally, as for the Nagato's eyes thing. Ok we all know it was this new Tobi from Naruto's generation that said he was the one that gave Nagato the Rinnegan but that was still when he was pretending to be Madara he hadn't revealed that he was a completely separate person yet. Well I just explained in my last post how I think that Madara acted as Tobi for a period of time until he passed it on to Obito. That means the things we saw with Kisame and Zabuza were carried out by Madara at first.

Madara said he died shortly after gaining the Rinnegan well that's very vague because it doesn't tell us two important things....when did he gain the Rinnegan and how long is shortly? For all we know he didn't unlock the Rinnegan until years after his exile from Konoha and escaping Hashirama at the Valley of End. He could've unlocked the Rinnegan after more training like Kakashi did with his MS over a decade after gaining his sharingan.

Let's assume he activated the Rinnegan later on in life. After taking over Kirigakure while controlling Yagura, he finds out that some survivors of the Uzumaki Clan have taken refuge in the neighboring village Amegakure. After recruiting Kisame to his side along with Zetsu who we can assume has been travelling with him all this time, he goes to explore the village. For some reason which will be explained later on by Kishi, Madara gives Nagato the Rinengan. Weakened Madara only survives for a few more years (long enough for the Third Shinobi World War to begin).

When he notices the cause of the shinobi world war (villages decaying in power but trying to keep balance) and how desperately both sides wanted to win but how many people were lost in the process Madara develops the idea to create the Akatsuki, a mercenary group which can actually disguise his true plan for Infinite Tsukuyomi. Before he dies he picks up Obito, trains him and relays the plan to him, Zetsu, and Kisame.

After that Obito as the new Tobi goes back to an older Nagato, Yahiko, and Konan and tells them to form the Akatsuki suggesting Kisame and Zetsu as members. He then attempts his attack on Minato and after failing decides to lay low for a few years while Akatsuki forms. He returns to Konoha one day to finish off the Uchiha Clan that Madara despised, joining forces with Itachi. A few years later he finally appears to the fully formed Akatsuki as Tobi.

This is the best way I can make sense of it, in my opinion the lines Wooster mentioned pretty much give it away. But if I had to take another stab at it the only one I could think of that would make sense is Shisui. Kagami and Izuna just seem too irrelevant to the plot for me.
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Old 07-29-2012, 12:47 AM   #292
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Default Re: Topics involving Obito being Tobi.

i dont think its obito since tobi was shown to have had two sharingans in his battle with konan (he used his left sharingan for izanagi) and obito gave his left eye to kakashi
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Old 07-29-2012, 01:14 PM   #293
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Default Re: Topics involving Obito being Tobi.

hksdjk the thread. STICKY.
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:52 PM   #294
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Default Re: Topics involving Obito being Tobi.

This makes my insides boil
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:48 AM   #295
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Default Re: Topics involving Obito being Tobi.

Hello! Sorry for my english. I registered just to reply to this thread.

I still don't understand how people can think that Obito = Tobi. I mean, there are better candidates, and the best one would be Izuna/Hashirama.

First of all - transplanting Sharingans. Tobi has huge collection of these, and I think that the only thing that connects Tobi and Obito is this S/T jutsu that is very similiar to Kakashi Kamui. BUT Kakashi needs Mangekyou Sharingan to use this technique, while Tobi doesn't. I think there are techniques that are very hard to master, but every uchiha/sharingan user can learn, for the price of leaving other strong techniques behind - Kakashi never used other Sharingan technique than Kamui, Danzo was using Izanagi, Shisui Kotoamatsukami, Itachi Izanami. But Itachi explains Sasuke that it was used to imprison others, so it had to be once learned and was used by other Uchiha members.

So about his S/T jutsu, i think that or he just stole the eye, or learned it by himself.

Second - why would he collect so many Sharingans? And why he never turned off his sharingan or used Mangekyou? And why he hid his other eye? Answer to this is also Kakashi - he can't turn it off so he just doesn't use it. The same thing with Tobi, he uses one eye because he has to see something and use his abilities. His second eye sucks too much power so he use it only in emergency (fight with Konan). Thats why I think he isn't Uchiha, not a real one atleast.

Third one, plot. Obito was just explanation for Kakashi past. He wasn't someone important, Naruto and the rest didn't know him. And still he act as guy who knows everything, seen everything, and was everywhere.

So who is Tobi? The key is Madara and Tobirama. We don't know how Madara died. We don't know what was happening between death of the first, and second hokage. Kishi have something towards three members teams.

Oro (obsession about Uchiha eyes) - Tsunade (Senju/Medic) - Jiraya (Strong/simple/friendly guy),
Obito (uchiha/friendly one) - Rin (Medic) - Kakashi (who becomes friendly later...)
Sasuke (uchiha) - Sakura (med) - Naruto (strong/friendly guy)
Madara (uchiha) - Tobirama (Medic) - Hashirama (strong/don't know if friendly... but Madara wasn't the friendly one for sure)

We know that Tobirama invented Edo Tensei, we also know that Madara knows also Edo Tensei. Why would he create jutsu like that? To bring back his brother. And here comes the Madara because...he also lost brother. Bringing back the loved ones could make them unite. But I think Tobirama left the idea (but it survived along with laboratories and hashirama DNA - look Danzo and the Root), while Uchiha created Tobi - the true ancestor of the sage of six paths. With the Yin of his brother, and yang of Hashirama, he made entity that had the body of the sage (Senju DNA) and eyes/powers of sage (Izuna Uchiha/Sharingan eyes...or even Rinnengan eyes by combining body and eyes of sage).

Only someone as strong as sage could perform eye-moon plan, because such strong technique can't be broken without even being close to that power.

I want to also point out that Tobi had to get Rinnengan eyes somehow (maybe he ripped them from Madara?) to give them to Pain. Btw Tobi uses Madaras old weapon, and Izuna loved to train with his brother - while they were equal in power and abilities. Tobi: "The true power of the Sharingan… this is Madara Uchiha's power!"

Last edited by Topik; 08-01-2012 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 08-01-2012, 05:49 PM   #296
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Default Re: Topics involving Obito being Tobi.

Tobi may or may not be Obito.

But it's looking like at the very least he has Obito's eye.
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Old 08-01-2012, 05:53 PM   #297
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Default Re: Topics involving Obito being Tobi.

Yeah Kishi is leading us pretty hard toward the Tobi=Obito thing especially with this chapter. I hope my bet works out.
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:18 PM   #298
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Default Re: Topics involving Obito being Tobi.

Didn't he use an Uchiha specific tech in the latest chapter? With that, I think we can confirm that he is an Uchiha or at least someone with the power to absorb other people's powers (even Kekkai Genkais). Personally, I think it's the latter.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:20 PM   #299
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Default Re: Topics involving Obito being Tobi.

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Originally Posted by Fan of Minato View Post
Didn't he use an Uchiha specific tech in the latest chapter? With that, I think we can confirm that he is an Uchiha or at least someone with the power to absorb other people's powers (even Kekkai Genkais). Personally, I think it's the latter.
I was thinking that...but the sharingan itself is "uchiha specific".
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:35 PM   #300
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Default Re: Topics involving Obito being Tobi.

Well Danzo and Kakashi showed us that you don't have to be Uchiha to use advanced technique's of Sharingan (god, even one crow used sharingan technique! )

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Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
Yeah Kishi is leading us pretty hard toward the Tobi=Obito thing especially with this chapter. I hope my bet works out.
Yeah, we also thought that Itachi was the bad guy, that Kabuto was only useless "nurse", that Orochimaru was dead for good, and that Tobi was Madara. Now we can expect anything from Tobi.
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