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Old 07-31-2012, 03:12 PM   #21
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

More because he had the mental capacity.

Quote:
he is almost thirty
Dingdingding.Correct.29-30
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Old 07-31-2012, 03:20 PM   #22
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

Kakashi doesn't have a super saiyan transformation like naruto or the inherited demonic powers of the sharingan. He's a powerful ninja in his own right,but he's still bound by human limitations.

It's not his fault he can't sustain 10,000 shadow clones per day like naruto.
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12:11 PM So you enter the debate with full knowledge that you know nothing of worth on the subject, and then state you will not make an effort to learn. Way to be poster-boy for blight of the forum. Leave discussions of intelligence to those that have it.

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Old 07-31-2012, 06:34 PM   #23
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

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Originally Posted by Leewannabe View Post
Yes , i know, and I deeply admire his skills, he is brilliant, but that is later in the series, not in kakashis gaiden. Sorry, daph!
it's ok. no need to apologize
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Not just power is evaluated to be a Jounin.

Why do you think Shikamaru made it to Chunin before anyone else?
yup
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Yes, Kakashi was jounin because of his leadership skills.
yup
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kakashi is just in his old glory days! he is almost thirty or fourty...he seems to be getting tired alot ..
from my calculations, he is gona be 33 this year in september
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Kakashi pretending to get stabbed by Obito because he's such a nice guy and doesn't want Obito to feel about about sucking so much
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:06 PM   #24
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

Ehh I don't think we got to see everything in the Gaiden. He used Chidori because he wanted to test it out in battle and probably wanted to show off in front of Minato after getting his promotion. I know people don't like talking about anime but I feel like it's really all we got since Kakashi's so mysterious about his past.

We know from the manga that as a young child like Itachi he was in ANBU: in the first movie he rescued the princess from the burning castle escaping those three Ice jonin, and in the fourth shippuden movie we saw him going on a dangerous mission with Minato. In the Gaiden flashback where he was doing bell training with Minato he actually parried Minato's kunai and got to touch the bells (from the fastest shinobi alive), which was a great sign of skill.

Kakashi also speed blitzed a bunch of chuunin and jonin level shinobi before that last jonin finally reacted and Minato had to step in. I don't know if anyone but Lee and end of part 1 Sasuke would be able to manage that. And Gaara was easily jonin level at the end of part 1 so comparing him to Kakashi doesn't mean anything.

Kakashi and Naruto have both mentioned Kakashi's genius level intellect. If Shikamaru was able to become a chuunin with just one shadow technique and his brain I don't see why a more motivated, more skilled, more experienced Kakashi couldn't take it a step further.
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:19 AM   #25
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

In green

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi View Post
Not just power is evaluated to be a Jounin.

Why do you think Shikamaru made it to Chunin before anyone else?
as i said before: obviously, it is! In the final rounds, all they got to show was their fighting skills! Or do you mean they have to give up in order to become a Jounin?

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Yes, Kakashi was jounin because of his leadership skills.
nahh, he didnt even manage to keep his team together, and the team spirit was horrible!!!

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Ehh I don't think we got to see everything in the Gaiden. He used Chidori because he wanted to test it out in battle and probably wanted to show off in front of Minato after getting his promotion. I know people don't like talking about anime but I feel like it's really all we got since Kakashi's so mysterious about his past.

Why would he test a high risk half developed jutsu in such an important situation if he had something else he knew up his sleeve?? Thats at least not Jounin skills in choosing the right thing!

We know from the manga that as a young child like Itachi he was in ANBU: in the first movie he rescued the princess from the burning castle escaping those three Ice jonin, and in the fourth shippuden movie we saw him going on a dangerous mission with Minato. In the Gaiden flashback where he was doing bell training with Minato he actually parried Minato's kunai and got to touch the bells (from the fastest shinobi alive), which was a great sign of skill.

He wasnt Anbu before he became Jounin, I think. And did Kakashi use any of his real abillities against team 7 in the belll test? No, so why would minato do that?

Kakashi also speed blitzed a bunch of chuunin and jonin level shinobi before that last jonin finally reacted and Minato had to step in. I don't know if anyone but Lee and end of part 1 Sasuke would be able to manage that. And Gaara was easily jonin level at the end of part 1 so comparing him to Kakashi doesn't mean anything.

Kakashi and Naruto have both mentioned Kakashi's genius level intellect. If Shikamaru was able to become a chuunin with just one shadow technique and his brain I don't see why a more motivated, more skilled, more experienced Kakashi couldn't take it a step further.
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:24 AM   #26
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

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as i said before: obviously, it is! In the final rounds, all they got to show was their fighting skills! Or do you mean they have to give up in order to become a Jounin?
If strength was all that mattered then Shikamaru would've stayed a Genin and Naruto, Neji, Lee etc. would've all gotten Chunin.
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Old 08-01-2012, 05:38 AM   #27
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

Im surprised Neji didn't get chunin though. Well I guess he made it up for it, passing up Shikamaru and becoming a jonin.


Anyway, if you read the manga then you would know Kakashi is at least near kage level now >_> but He's only a normal ninja like the fodder. But Kakashi is far above most of your average ninja.
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:35 AM   #28
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leewannabe View Post



as i said before: obviously, it is! In the final rounds, all they got to show was their fighting skills! Or do you mean they have to give up in order to become a Jounin?

Wrong.Chuunin exams wasn't about fighting force.

But because of his mental abilities.
Intelligent.
Knowing when top stop fighting.
Analytical Abilities.
Information Gathering.
Strategically brilliant.

Being a Jounin isn't about being megapowerful.Look at Genma or Kurenai.
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:42 AM   #29
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

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Originally Posted by Vivi View Post
Wrong.Chuunin exams wasn't about fighting force.

But because of his mental abilities.
Intelligent.
Knowing when top stop fighting.
Analytical Abilities.
Information Gathering.
Strategically brilliant.

Being a Jounin isn't about being megapowerful.Look at Genma or Kurenai.
Kurenai as far as we know is among the strongest Konoha Jounin. She temporarily trapped Itachi in Genjutsu and not only survived a kick from him, but while remaining conscious, too.

Genma is not real Jounin but Tokubetsu Jounin!!!
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:49 AM   #30
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

He smart in making decision
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:55 AM   #31
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

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In Kakashis Gaiden, Kakashi was already a Jounin, and I have to admit his abillities werent that great. As I remember, he could NO REAL JUTSU except from a half developed chidori. He was fairly good at taijutsu, but not extraordinary.

If you compare those abillities to those who made it to the Final rounds in the chunun exams, imo, you will find out kakashis abillities in kakashis gaiden are
inferior to all of them.

Would he be able to beat any of these: Neji, Naruto, Gaara, Sasuke, Shikamaru, Temari , Shino , Kankuro and also Lee??

And only ONE of the characters above became chunin! Genin outpowers Jounin!!! Is that fair??
That's a plausible theory, for sure. But the thing is, Kakashi was only allotted the span of about three episodes. (Or something ridiculous like that.) I don't think that's an appropriate amount of time for him to display his actual powers. Regardless, we didn't even really see the power of Jounin back then, either. As far as we know, the power of an average Jounin and the standards you have to meet to become one could've been far lower than they are in the manga currently. So we could just have an innumerate scale.

Nah. Kakashi > Neji, for example, based on the sole speed that you have to have in order to use the Chidori. Neji's reaction time is pretty slow in PTS, too, considering the fact that Naruto knocked his block off. Despite that, Naruto would've also lost to Kakashi. Gaara, because of having such good control over the Two-Tailed Monster Cat, could've probably beaten Kakashi, but definitely not in base. Because it's argued that Base Gai and Base Kakashi are around the same level. Gai had no issues with fending off Gaara's sand, so I have my doubts that a base Gaara could even touch Kakashi.

Probably all of them. Especially given the state that Lee was in after his battle with the Sandman. Most of them weren't even in the final round of the Chuunin Exams. Those people were mostly in the preliminaries. Although, don't quote me on that, because it's been a while.

Nah, I disagree with you.
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Old 08-01-2012, 08:34 AM   #32
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

^ Even though it was only three episodes, he got to do a lot of fighting, and he had enough time and opportunities to use other techniques if he had any! And lets not forget: I talk about the young kakashi!

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Originally Posted by SchnarfTacular View Post
If strength was all that mattered then Shikamaru would've stayed a Genin and Naruto, Neji, Lee etc. would've all gotten Chunin.
Then tell me how could the charaters above have gotten chunin? Did they all have to give up if their opponent was on the offensive? Do you know any other way than giving up , to show so called "leaderskills/reasonable decicions"??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha_Sora View Post
Im surprised Neji didn't get chunin though. Well I guess he made it up for it, passing up Shikamaru and becoming a jonin.


Anyway, if you read the manga then you would know Kakashi is at least near kage level now >_> but He's only a normal ninja like the fodder. But Kakashi is far above most of your average ninja.

Lets not forget I talk about the young Kakashi, without doubt, the older Kakashi is one of the most powerful ninja ever!


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Originally Posted by Vivi View Post
Wrong.Chuunin exams wasn't about fighting force.

But because of his mental abilities.
Intelligent.
Knowing when top stop fighting.
Analytical Abilities.
Information Gathering.
Strategically brilliant.

Being a Jounin isn't about being megapowerful.Look at Genma or Kurenai.
Then tell me how could the charaters above have gotten chunin? Did they all have to give up if their opponent was on the offensive? Do you know any other way than giving up , to show this so called "leaderskills/reasonable decicions"?? And : Kurenai is powerful, Genma is tokubetsu Jounin!



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Originally Posted by Ultimate combatant View Post
Kurenai as far as we know is among the strongest Konoha Jounin. She temporarily trapped Itachi in Genjutsu and not only survived a kick from him, but while remaining conscious, too.

Genma is not real Jounin but Tokubetsu Jounin!!!
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Originally Posted by Uchiha Efair View Post
He smart in making decision

Yes , he is.
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Old 08-01-2012, 04:50 PM   #33
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

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Then tell me how could the charaters above have gotten chunin? Did they all have to give up if their opponent was on the offensive? Do you know any other way than giving up , to show so called "leaderskills/reasonable decicions"??
Lee and Naruto could've gotten Chunin if they weren't so reckless. Lee used Gates and Naruto used 9 tails chakra. Neji could've gotten Chunin if he wasn't a complete douche. All that fate was complete BS. He attitude about everything was terrible. Shikamaru got Chunin because he wasn't reckless and he had enough sense to give up before things got completely ugly.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:38 AM   #34
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

Lee had to come to the final rounds in order to become chunin, so the eight gates was his only choice! Yeaah, Naruto is reckless, but he uses it to his advantage" And what about Temari, Shino, Kankuro, Gaara and Sasuke?? And you say the reason Neji didnt become chunin ws because he was duche?? bull! How could the proctors and judges know about that?? And he wasnt completety duche, he had a attidude similar to the will of stone!!

And if its about personality traits , Shikamaru was lazy, and that is no good, either!
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:47 AM   #35
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

Shikamaru was excellent tactician, with practically just one jutsu (his kekkei genkai) and weak taijutsu. He knew when to pass, and not risk his life, and so, he won't risk life of his teammates. He used his skills and intelligence at full.

Kakashi was even better tactician, very good at taijutsu and with atleast one, invented by him jutsu, which was using his element transformation what isn't so easy (the other ones who used element transformation jutsus in so young age were probably Sasuke and Itachi, but it was connected with their Kekkei Genkai, and Sasuke used Kakashi technique). He was very focused on target of his missions and so he was excellent weapon/mission ninja.

Naruto, Neji, Temari, Gaara, Sasuke didn't showed anything, except their fighting skills. As for fighting, there was no need for them to advance from genin, because they probably wouldn't be able to command a team.
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:11 AM   #36
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

^
Then can you tell me how the other characters mentioned above could have shown Shikamarus so called "exellent tactic and decicioning"?? They should all have given up and then they would have become chunin?? You see the tactical skills Shikamaru showed was just a supplement to his fighting skills, so he would be able to defeat Temari, it doesnnt matter if you have a tactical fighting style or not, if you just win your fight without too many damages (shika actually did get hurt), thats enough! And how could the judges know that Naruto, Neji, Temari, Gaara and Sasuke "wouldnt be able to command a team"??? Were they supposed to command the other participants to fight with them and make their "tactical plan" come to life??

And young Kakashi's chidori was dangerous in use and not fully developed. And did he manage to keep his team together , keep the spirit up and complete his misson without any serious flaws/problems?? NO!!

Honestly, Would young jounin kakasahi actually beat any of these genin??: Lee, Neji, Naruto, Sasuke, Kankuro, Shino or Gaar??
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:38 AM   #37
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

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Originally Posted by Leewannabe View Post
^
Then can you tell me how the other characters mentioned above could have shown Shikamarus so called "exellent tactic and decicioning"?? They should all have given up and then they would have become chunin?? You see the tactical skills Shikamaru showed was just a supplement to his fighting skills, so he would be able to defeat Temari
Exactly. That was just supplement to his fighting skills.

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^
And how could the judges know that Naruto, Neji, Temari, Gaara and Sasuke "wouldnt be able to command a team"??? Were they supposed to command the other participants to fight with them and make their "tactical plan" come to life??
You seriously consider naruto as capable candidate for chunin? Yea, he had half of brain, but the only why he didn't lost instantly to Neji was because...Neji was lacking jutsu's also. Only Taijutsu with his byakugan against mass of Naruto clones. Naruto was like Russians in WW2.
Gaara - monster... come on. He couldn't even handle his demon, and he should be able to control others? It would be risky to make him chunnin.
Temari - ok, I think she should got it. Why didn't? Maybe because she still lost.
Sasuke - tactic "I have a lot of Taijutsu, ninjutsu, and Sharingan. I will just hit him the hardest I can."

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^
And young Kakashi's chidori was dangerous in use and not fully developed. And did he manage to keep his team together , keep the spirit up and complete his misson without any serious flaws/problems?? NO!!

Honestly, Would young jounin kakasahi actually beat any of these genin??: Lee, Neji, Naruto, Sasuke, Kankuro, Shino or Gaar??
It isn't about keeping spirit, but about commanding them. If they not obey, they are worse to you than enemies, because you rely on them in the same way as they.
Rin was kidnapped by Jonin level ninja. That means his abilities was even better than Kakashi, because of Kakashis young age and that he recently become Jonin.

I don't know if he would win. But he would be able to stop them until reinforcements arrive - im sure of it.
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:41 AM   #38
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

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Lee had to come to the final rounds in order to become chunin, so the eight gates was his only choice! Yeaah, Naruto is reckless, but he uses it to his advantage" And what about Temari, Shino, Kankuro, Gaara and Sasuke?? And you say the reason Neji didnt become chunin ws because he was duche?? bull! How could the proctors and judges know about that?? And he wasnt completety duche, he had a attidude similar to the will of stone!!

And if its about personality traits , Shikamaru was lazy, and that is no good, either!
Yes, it was his only choice. And it was also reckless because he knew it would damage his body. Temari wasn't promoted in Part 1 because she was part of the invasion of Konoha, same with Kankuro and Gaara. They also barely showed any skill in anything other than fighting. Sasuke, I'm not sure why he wasn't promoted to chunin. Most likely because of the same reason as Temari, Kankuro and Gaara. Neji was a stuck up little , the proctors and judges knew because they watched his fights and most likely heard what he said. The proctors did for sure, but I'm not sure about the judges since they were farther away. What is the Will of Stone? Shikamaru was lazy yes, but he also was a excellent tactician and a genius.

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Old 08-02-2012, 12:36 PM   #39
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

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Exactly. That was just supplement to his fighting skills.

What I meant by that was : without his brain , only with his jutsu, shikamaru wouldnt be able to win any battles. So its his brain that keeps him on the same level as others who are better in nin and taijutsu! his battle skills consists of shadow techniques plus smart tactics. So what he showed during the last round was only his abillity to fight with intelligence . And it doesnt matter if you fight with fist or intelligence, as long as you win the fight , the judges are happy (or should be).


You seriously consider naruto as capable candidate for chunin? Yea, he had half of brain, but the only why he didn't lost instantly to Neji was because...Neji was lacking jutsu's also. Only Taijutsu with his byakugan against mass of Naruto clones. Naruto was like Russians in WW2.
Gaara - monster... come on. He couldn't even handle his demon, and he should be able to control others? It would be risky to make him chunnin.
Temari - ok, I think she should got it. Why didn't? Maybe because she still lost.
Sasuke - tactic "I have a lot of Taijutsu, ninjutsu, and Sharingan. I will just hit him the hardest I can."

Young Kakashis tactic wasnt much better- and for Sasuke , it worked, he was able to break through Gaaraa defense! And Sasuke was much better than young kakashi on almost every other ninja skill!

Naruto didnt loose instantly, he won! And he used a tactic almost as smart as Shikamaru's , plus he showed exellent taijutsu, endurance and jounin level techniques!

And you say Neji isnt that good? He is the only one of the konoha 11 who is currently a Jounin, and as a Jounin, he only had one new technique.



It isn't about keeping spirit, but about commanding them. If they not obey, they are worse to you than enemies, because you rely on them in the same way as they.
Rin was kidnapped by Jonin level ninja. That means his abilities was even better than Kakashi, because of Kakashis young age and that he recently become Jonin.

I don't know if he would win. But he would be able to stop them until reinforcements arrive - im sure of it.
Those Jounin were Tobetesku (or something) Jounin, they were supposed to be worse than Kakashi. It doesnt matter what you name it, what matters is the outcome. And the outcome of Young kakashis misson .... well , Kakashi destroyed his left eye , and 1/3 of his team ended up dead.

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Yes, it was his only choice. And it was also reckless because he knew it would damage his body. Temari wasn't promoted in Part 1 because she was part of the invasion of Konoha, same with Kankuro and Gaara. They also barely showed any skill in anything other than fighting. Sasuke, I'm not sure why he wasn't promoted to chunin. Most likely because of the same reason as Temari, Kankuro and Gaara. Neji was a stuck up little , the proctors and judges knew because they watched his fights and most likely heard what he said. The proctors did for sure, but I'm not sure about the judges since they were farther away. What is the Will of Stone? Shikamaru was lazy yes, but he also was a excellent tactician and a genius.
Even if it damaged his body, he knew he had one month rest until the final rounds, so it was a smart decision, necissary in order to win. And why do you think The sandsiblings were denied chunin because of the invasion of Konoha? They were just kids, and Temari was against it from the very beginning!
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:02 PM   #40
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Default Re: Kakashi way too weak for a Jounin!

Your reasoning for Lee using Gates is terrible. It was NOT a smart decision. He knew it could end his life as a ninja and rip his muscles to shreds yet he did it anyway. Does that seem like a smart decision to you? Do you remember when Temari threw Tenten off of her fan into a bunch of ninja tools after her match was already over? Yeah, that's why she wasn't promoted. Who the hell does something like that? Gaara wasn't promoted because he was crazy. That explains it's self. Also, nobody in the Sand Village liked him and they were all afraid of him. As to why Kankuro wasn't promoted, I'm not sure.
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