Jiraya vs Orochimaru

[Kioroshi.]

First of all, if you've ever been to a Kabuto battle thread he isn't allowed to use Edo Tensei at all because it's obviously an automatic win so no point in bringing his character up, that's too much of an exception.

Ok I'll let Oro use Edo Tensei here if you can answer these questions with 100% certainty...

Are Hashirama and Tobirama at their full strength under Oro's control?
Can Oro move when he uses ET or does he have to control the hand signs of his Edo summons for them to perform techniques?
When did he gain the first and second for use in combat?

Do you know why I banned Edo Tensei (other than it being a hack that uses someone else's power instead of your own) because it isn't well understood, Kabuto is the first person to explain it in detail yet he hasn't completely explained how his version is "superior" to Oro's, not enough is understood about Oro's Edo Tensei and none of those questions have been confirmed on panel AND it requires prep time which Oro doesn't have.

Even if you could answer all those questions which would be impossible here's the real problem with Edo Tensei, it is pathetic, it's for a spineless coward. It's like hiring Mike Tyson as your bodyguard and then saying you're the strongest person in the room. It's not like this is some impossible technique to learn as a matter of fact I think if Jiraiya or Tsunade tried they'd be just as capable of using the move but they won't because an Edo summon requires the sacrifice of other human beings. It's like if someone said you could gain the ultimate power by shooting your mother in the head, any moron could do it it's just something you shouldn't do, this is kind of why I don't respect Mangekyo Sharingan to some degree but that's a different debate.

True I haven't been in a lot of Kabuto threads,an automatic win ehh?you kinda proved my point here.if Orochimaru were to use Edo Tensei its automatic win hehe thx for that.


I can't answer them all.Lets try.

1.Probably if he wants them to be.

2.Yes.I don't see why not.

3.Well probably in his "dark days" in the leaf he did some grave robbing and got DNA.Leaf doesn't protect their dead bodies well.

Maybe he got new seal for their personality or somethin like that but true that isn't for this kind of debate.

oro doesn't have prep time?well Jiraiya needs 5 minutes to prep sage mode and he will be running around on a frog Orochimaru can send manda to deal with Bunta and Jiraiya and prepare some Edo Tensei those 5 minutes then jiraiya is dead man.

I already explained to you why letting an opponent gain a power bonus that would give them the upper hand is out of character for Oro. And Oro could've beaten base Jiraiya by simply playing off of his emotions which is actually something in line with his character. If someone just happened to see the beginning of Naruto's fight against Sasuke and saw Sasuke with his hand ripping a whole open in Naruto's chest they wouldn't know that the two are equally powerful shinobi it would just look like Sasuke pwned Naruto.

He actually did it several time in order to have some fun while fighting
1)he let hiruzen use his sealing jutsu
2)he let Naruto fully transform into 4 tailed form

why wouldn't he do it against jiraiya too especially since they were rivals from childhood so he would want a serious all-out fight before leaving.


You said Oro was without a scratch and its true so even if Jiraiya didn't use sage mode then Base Jiraiya got beat by Oro without having a single scratch.


I remember sasuke pretty worn out after that fight too.he wasn't really "without a scratch"

And I don't agree with you that part 1 Itachi was stronger than Jiraiya, I don't think he'd mastered his MS well enough yet. He had to retreat after using Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu in succession because he was too tired. I don't think he had the stamina to take Jiraiya down.

was that the same day he used tsukuyomi against Kakashi?then it was 2 tsukuyomis and 1 amaterasu this just proves how Itachi has small stamina and how exausting MS techniques are.

Also you cannot possibly think those 2 feread for their lifes against Jiraiya when it was 2 v 1,Kisame could get the best of jiraiya out and then Itachi could just finish with 1 tsukuyomi or 1 tsukuyomi could finish the fight...I don't see Jiraiya having something to counter MS techniques he would get pwned.

If Oro was as powerful as you say he is then why did he retreat when his plan to surprise attack Itachi failed. He could've just regenerated his arm and kept fighting instead he quit Akatsuki and ran away, why wouldn't he fight Itachi for the body? It was because he was afraid.

Well here I will need some understanding from your side.

You see its possible that Itachi was stronger than Oro then but we all cannot be quite sure.He couldve regenerated and kept fighting but I think He had some other motives too he took something from Madara and tobi and thats why he ran away not because of itachi.

Why wouldn't he fight itachi for the body?hmm well he could but he knew about sasuke who he assumpted could actually have better body than Itachi and if you wanted something would you rather try to take it from chuck Norris or a child if they have same thing you want?

Do you think leaving Team Kakashi alive so that they could take out Akatsuki even though they were clearly enemies is the sign of someone who's not afraid? Oro didn't act like Tobi, confident in victory and not bothering to watch his own back, Oro told Sasuke not to kill Naruto so that he could help him take out Akatsuki, if that's not fear I don't know what you call it.

I guess you don't understand word fear the right way.If he feared akatsuki he would not even try to kill their members he would just keep his head low and avoid them.

Orochimaru left team kakashi alive because they Killed akatsuki members which HELPED him in his "war" against them,He saw them as easy prey and left them alive so they HELP him and take out a few more akatsuki.so when he bring all akatsuki down he could kill team kakashi because they are weaker than akatsuki AND it was a big possibility they would get eliminated by akatsuki themselves.So he kills 2 birds with 1 stone.

It was tactic not fear.

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by Kioroshi.

True I haven't been in a lot of Kabuto threads,an automatic win ehh?you kinda proved my point here.if Orochimaru were to use Edo Tensei its automatic win hehe thx for that.

I can't answer them all.Lets try.

1.Probably if he wants them to be.

2.Yes.I don't see why not.

3.Well probably in his "dark days" in the leaf he did some grave robbing and got DNA.Leaf doesn't protect their dead bodies well.

Maybe he got new seal for their personality or somethin like that but true that isn't for this kind of debate.

oro doesn't have prep time?well Jiraiya needs 5 minutes to prep sage mode and he will be running around on a frog Orochimaru can send manda to deal with Bunta and Jiraiya and prepare some Edo Tensei those 5 minutes then jiraiya is dead man.

He actually did it several time in order to have some fun while fighting
1)he let hiruzen use his sealing jutsu
2)he let Naruto fully transform into 4 tailed form

why wouldn't he do it against jiraiya too especially since they were rivals from childhood so he would want a serious all-out fight before leaving.

You said Oro was without a scratch and its true so even if Jiraiya didn't use sage mode then Base Jiraiya got beat by Oro without having a single scratch.

I remember sasuke pretty worn out after that fight too.he wasn't really "without a scratch"

was that the same day he used tsukuyomi against Kakashi?then it was 2 tsukuyomis and 1 amaterasu this just proves how Itachi has small stamina and how exausting MS techniques are.

Also you cannot possibly think those 2 feread for their lifes against Jiraiya when it was 2 v 1,Kisame could get the best of jiraiya out and then Itachi could just finish with 1 tsukuyomi or 1 tsukuyomi could finish the fight...I don't see Jiraiya having something to counter MS techniques he would get pwned.

Well here I will need some understanding from your side.

You see its possible that Itachi was stronger than Oro then but we all cannot be quite sure.He couldve regenerated and kept fighting but I think He had some other motives too he took something from Madara and tobi and thats why he ran away not because of itachi.

Why wouldn't he fight itachi for the body?hmm well he could but he knew about sasuke who he assumpted could actually have better body than Itachi and if you wanted something would you rather try to take it from chuck Norris or a child if they have same thing you want?

1.) Your answers had no manga support for them at all you were just assuming because you want Oro to win.

-We can't know if they were at full power because neither of them showed feats that represented what they are capable of (e.g. Hashirama making a forest, Tobirama making lakes). Oro probably hadn't perfected ET yet which is why Kabuto said he'd surpassed him.

-We don't know if Oro can move while his Edos use techniques, because if you read the manga carefully you'd see that Oro had to stand there and actually make the hand signs for Tobirama to use a water technique.

2.) I've already addressed this Bunta jumps in the air and stalls. Jiraiya also isn't just helpless when he's collecting chakra. He can create barriers (to prevent Manda's underground sneak attacks) by just clapping his heels together, he can also use his hair techniques which were strong enough to crush Pain's crab summon, and he can use taijutsu (he had the physical strength to send Pain's summons flying with a kick to the face). And you just made up the five minute figure, we don't know how long it takes it could be shorter or longer.

3.) Oro wanted to see Hiruzen use a lot of techniques to defend himself against attacks from the Edo Kages read again, he didn't just sit there and let Hiruzen use the DDS, the reason that happened was because only the user of the fuinjutsu can see the Death God, Oro didn't know what was going on until after Hiruzen grabbed him, then Oro was extremely afraid which is why he tried to stab Hiruzen with Kusanagi.

4.) Oro provoked Naruto to a state of pure rage where Naruto could no longer think of strategies to defeat Oro anymore. The most Oro thought he could do was physical damage which wouldn't matter because of regen. That is different than letting someone with the potential to beat you reach their peak form, he wouldn't even let Jiraiya perform hand signs when they fought for Tsunade. It is possible that he let Jiraiya use Sage Mode but once again I say it is unlikely because you've yet to explain to me why if that was the case Jiraiya wasn't in Sage Mode in the flashback and Ma and Pa had disappeared.

5.) I'm talking about the beginning of the fight before Naruto used the Kyuubi...Sasuke just grabbed Naruto by the collar and stabbed him through the chest because Naruto was emotionally broken. Oro could've defeated Jiraiya when Jiraiya was confused and won without a scratch even though the two were equal in power.

6. )

I guess you don't understand word fear the right way.If he feared akatsuki he would not even try to kill their members he would just keep his head low and avoid them.

Orochimaru left team kakashi alive because they Killed akatsuki members which HELPED him in his "war" against them,He saw them as easy prey and left them alive so they HELP him and take out a few more akatsuki.so when he bring all akatsuki down he could kill team kakashi because they are weaker than akatsuki AND it was a big possibility they would get eliminated by akatsuki themselves.So he kills 2 birds with 1 stone.

It was tactic not fear.

That's EXACTLY what Oro did. He ran from hide out to hide out avoiding confrontation so he could do his research until he could take Sasuke's body. Oro didn't defeat ONE member of Akatsuki. He was afraid of them, he knew he needed to get stronger before he could take them on, he wasn't as powerful as you claim. Yes his move was tactical and brilliant but it was a clear sign that he worried about Akatsuki stopping his success.

You have some great arguments here and I am acknowledging that this would be an epic battle but there are just too many details about the manga you didn't notice.

[Kioroshi.]

ehh I want to respond but I have been waiting manga chapter and will we get new info on these things in this thread.so you will have to wait a little while.

[TobiramaSenju307]

oro has more hax ninjutsus and can counter what jiraiya has.
formation of ten thousand snakes covers the battlefield in small snakes all with poisonous bites and swords. kusanagi can extend as well as float in mid air. very versatile weapon and nigh unbreakable. oro has poison in true form if it comes to that. and jiraiya has almost no answer for hydra or oros immortality. if you remember he can block the toad flame bullet with either a giant snake or rashomon gate defence. jiraiyas got nothing to dent that thing. not to mention incomplete sage mode.
he doesnt need edo tensei to win this battle.

Tsunade's punches and kicks, which can apparently bust Susanoo?

he never tanked that

Itachi would pwn Jiraiya like just he did to Orochimaru.Susano'o,Amaterasu,Tsukuyomi....

none of which are very effective considering their cost and oro's vast knowledge on almost everything. amaterasus countered by oral rebirth. tsukiyomi by sage mode sensing. susano by poisoned blood fumes or formation of ten thousand snakes

[PrinceofPeace]

Oro wins he is immortal and even if he did lose he can be resurected form a curse mark and comes back to kill Oro