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Old 07-11-2012, 06:08 PM   #21
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

Ok I compare the whole sharingan to riningan by naruto and his recent modes berserk nine tails base( sharingan) control nine tails chakra ( ms) work with kuramo his new mode. ( ems)Now here's the twist. If we put naruto as jyubi it's the strongest form ( riningan is strongest ocular jutsu. So6p had it. Now what do we know of its powers nothin but what we saw from Nagato. Madara didn't really use it and neither did Tobi. Let say sasuke gets it with his knowledge he could turn riningan into the lvl so6p had. Just a theory. Ringingan ISINT an evolution but more of an completion. For it to be an evolution sharingan wouldn't exist anymore but Tobi has both. think of it as a completion. I like the sealed idea. naruto struggled with the sealed nine tails but when he came to understand kuramo he didn't need the seal cuz they work together. also look at the moment they start to its like naruto and kuramo became complete and also notice when they did that gate disappeared. release of seal. This just my take on it. Oh yea Tobi said with his sharingan that he wasn't complete and when he finally gets his riningan back he feels Complete and heads off to battle
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:40 AM   #22
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

as I said, maybe the word "derivative" would be a better phrase to connect the Sharingan and Rinnegan. I am curious to see what happens with the rinnegan in terms of all the powers being put into a single user. I am not sure if Nagato did it the way he did because his body simply could not handle it all on its own or if it was just the only way.

I thought about the cursed seal of heaven being potentially part of what happened just because it looks like it would make sense in terms of effects of the seal on the body and the unlocked MS abilities. I mean it could all be non-sense, but it made me think :-p
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:02 AM   #23
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

It makes sense to look at it as powers locked in the eye.

MS and EMS potential are in every sharingan. The DNA is already there. The emotional aspect of best friend dying would not change the DNA. It causes emotions and some chemical release in your body... or some kind of magic, if they are truly cursed.

But if not every sharingan can use susanoo, even if in MS form, then maybe not every Uchiha can unlock or free the sharingan restraints to get to rinnegan.
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:44 AM   #24
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

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Originally Posted by paradigm1977 View Post
It makes sense to look at it as powers locked in the eye.

MS and EMS potential are in every sharingan. The DNA is already there. The emotional aspect of best friend dying would not change the DNA. It causes emotions and some chemical release in your body... or some kind of magic, if they are truly cursed.

But if not every sharingan can use susanoo, even if in MS form, then maybe not every Uchiha can unlock or free the sharingan restraints to get to rinnegan.
You are right, though I don't think its going to be an "emotional" so much in terms that you have to feel a particular emotion to unlock the MS. The best way to describe that feeling is a situation of dire need where you push yourself well beyond the limit, like when you hear about people who get "super human strength" in a situation where they would have to lift a car off of another person. Something like that!

Susano's isn't unattainable by those with the MS, but I believe you need to have awaken the MS in both eyes. I guess in some instances some of the Uchiha who awoken the MS were only able to awaken one and not both?

once the MS would be awakened, the cursed mark of heaven would be activated, and at the cost of the great power it would cause irreparable damage to the eye, eventually sealing it off forever.

How does the EMS work then? the curse is typically attached to the person who is born into it, atleast that's the theory. That said, another flow of chakra through the cursed eyes would not be effected because the curse to those born to it would not be applying the chakra to their eyes, thus the cursed seal would not be activated.

The only reason I started this thing with the seal though, is because Nagato had the eyes, and natural sealing ability. I am not sure if that ability is considered ingrained in the Uzumaki or not, however through that event and the desire to protect those close to him, he somehow unsealed his hidden ability.

However by summoning the Gedo (a symbol of heretical nature in Buddhism) he went down the wrong path, and perhaps that is why he was damned and cursed not to be able to act on his own accord, with a limitation placed on his power. (He had to divide his chakra 7 ways to access the paths).

Just my thoughts :-)
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:41 AM   #25
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

Didnt just Kabuto confirm that the curse seal is just to gather nature energy?
Oro learned how to use the curse seal from Ryuchi cave that is why Sasuke is transforming to something like dragon everytime he uses it. I dont see how is this being connected to awakening the Rinnegan.

On topic.. Rinnegan is different doujutsu.. Its relation to Sharringan is completely just the same with how the Byakugan related to Sharringan. Its just a MUTATION rather than EVOLUTION.

Madara fought Hashirama in the purpose of obtaining his DNA. Next Madara stated that he awakened the Rinnegan SHORTLY before he died. This implies that he experimented and altered his own DNA by combining Hashirama DNA to unlock the Rinnegan. He mutated his EMS to Sharringan and its not evolution.

That's just my assumption though.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:47 AM   #26
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

You could be on to something Rikudo, dealing with the nature energy, however I believe we saw through the series that nature energy is incredibly hard to control, and requires specific training otherwise the transformation can cause the "petrified <insert animal> effect.

I say the Rinnegan is related to the sharingan based on the fact that you need the Rinnegan to be able to read the tablet left by SoSP. The sharingan can read it to a lesser extent, thus I believe it is a derivative of it.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:24 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

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You could be on to something Rikudo, dealing with the nature energy, however I believe we saw through the series that nature energy is incredibly hard to control, and requires specific training otherwise the transformation can cause the "petrified <insert animal> effect.
There is slight difference when it comes to the risk of entering Senjutsu using Ryuchido's way...

The risk of being petrified only applies to Frog Senjutsu. Remember Juugo's bloodline ability can absorb Nature energy but sometimes when they couldnt control it instead turning into a stone they are just being berserk. This suggests that Snake Sage mode risk is to go berserk + transforming to dragon while Frog Sage mode risk is to transform to a frog and be petrified.

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I say the Rinnegan is related to the sharingan based on the fact that you need the Rinnegan to be able to read the tablet left by SoSP. The sharingan can read it to a lesser extent, thus I believe it is a derivative of it.
Ok.. if thats how you defined it.. I have my own..
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:15 AM   #28
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

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Now that I just remember it.. You just got owned on that debate.
Not really, no.
We both make sense in a sort of way.

It's up to Kishi to decide.

What I was trying to say in that debate was that Rinnegan was related to the Sharingan, but I supported the part that it was an evolution, not a mutation.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:36 PM   #29
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

Well we all know "evolution," was used because evolving typically means a better improvement and the rinnegan is better.

I don't mind using the term incorrectly.

anyway. The tablet is important. Both that you need MS, EMS, rinegan to progress, as well as that it is in the Uchiha hideout. And the older son received the eyes. And that those that 2 Uchihas, Tobi and Madara have claimed to have rinne's in the past, and they both knew Nagato, who also did.

That's enough links for me to be convinced.

Although....The original version of the eyes may have come from the juubi. As in the Juubi mutated the sage. And that mutation was passed down.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:40 PM   #30
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

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Although....The original version of the eyes may have come from the juubi. As in the Juubi mutated the sage. And that mutation was passed down.
Mutated in what way?
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:50 PM   #31
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

I don't think the Juubi mutated the sage at all. Sure it effected him, but I don't think mutation had anything to do with it.
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:35 PM   #32
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

But the rinnegan is a downgrade from a sharingan
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Old 07-21-2012, 08:56 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

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But the rinnegan is a downgrade from a sharingan
The Rinnegan is an upgrade from the Sharingan. To control the Rinnegan, its basically to control life and death itself, the 6 paths and potentially every KG and KT. Its absurd the power potential if you think about what it means.

The sharingan has been showcased a LOT more, thus it has the appearance of being more powerful, but I assure the Rinnegan is where its at!
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Old 07-22-2012, 01:43 AM   #34
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

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The Rinnegan is an upgrade from the Sharingan. To control the Rinnegan, its basically to control life and death itself, the 6 paths and potentially every KG and KT. Its absurd the power potential if you think about what it means.

The sharingan has been showcased a LOT more, thus it has the appearance of being more powerful, but I assure the Rinnegan is where its at!
But rinnegan has been beaten not the ems
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:39 AM   #35
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

Rinnegan FTW.
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:27 PM   #36
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

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Mutated in what way?
I'm tossing out the idea that maybe the Sage didn't have a dojutsu, the juubi did.

You can of course assume the sage had the rinnegan and the juubi had the rinnegan with tomoes.

But maybe he got the dojutsu from the Juubi. I don't have a true opinion on this. So that is why I say the juubi mutated the Sage, because maybe his eyes changed after. If so, it mutated his dna, since the dojutsu was passed to a son.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:20 PM   #37
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

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I'm tossing out the idea that maybe the Sage didn't have a dojutsu, the juubi did.

You can of course assume the sage had the rinnegan and the juubi had the rinnegan with tomoes.

But maybe he got the dojutsu from the Juubi. I don't have a true opinion on this. So that is why I say the juubi mutated the Sage, because maybe his eyes changed after. If so, it mutated his dna, since the dojutsu was passed to a son.
What about The Uchiha Clan Ancestor does he have Dojutsu.
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:11 PM   #38
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

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What about The Uchiha Clan Ancestor does he have Dojutsu.
Yes, that's the older son I was speaking of. He has a rinnegan, but instead of concentric, circles, there is one line swirls around until it reaches the center. Not even the same as Rikudo.
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Old 07-23-2012, 01:25 AM   #39
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

^Like the Uzumaki logo.
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Old 07-23-2012, 04:49 AM   #40
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Default Re: The Sharingan not an evolution of the Rinnegan?

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Originally Posted by gaarapwnsu View Post
But rinnegan has been beaten not the ems
You're right, it was beaten by Naruto going all out Kyuubi, and uncontrolled Kyuubi at that. However we've not seen that kind of battle with the EMS, and in fact we haven't seen the EMS really used by itself outside of Sasuke..Now I know, "what about Madara," well Madara actually has the Rinnegan active, which leads me to believe that the reason we saw Nagato defeated was perhaps his lack of understanding of the full power that went along with the Rinnegan (even though he was able to pretty much obliterate the village himself).

So, as I said, we see the PERFECT Sussan'o, and perhaps that goes along with the Rinnegan, maybe not. It does seam to be additional to the power of it, because from what I saw the Rinnegan retains the powers of the Sharingan and then some.
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