BG Convo 51: Shika wins.

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Nope, as I said, falling only affects vertical velocity. Learn your vector addition. I used distance from the frogs to Tsuande.

Anyway terminal velocity is less than mach 1 anyway, about 50 m/s give or take So again, double cheack mate ;p

Wait, that would also be too slow to stop Asura forward momentum even at the riduculously slow 20 m/s, soo triple check mate, mate.

Falling is a no. Jumping would still be a yes, as I had said previous. After all, falling wouldn't let him get to Tsunade anyways, so a jump off would be necessary and allow him a greater speed while going down.

TV (terminal velocity) isn't a standard number, and it can be increased by a number of factors. One such factor is form, as 50 m/s is belly-to-earth while a much higher number could be achieved by folding the arms in, reducing drag. The propelling from his legs would also add speed, meaning 50 m/s isn't even a plausable number in this scenario.

Asura, even at that speed naruto would be going, would be stopped merely because of the rasengan at his center. The rotation would add g-forces en masse to his body, preventing his forward movement, especially when you consider its launching speeds that its shown multiple times (PTS launched Kabuto into a rock pretty effectively, and that was a much weaker variant) as well as the rotational force it would pull in. You'd be hit by a fast moving downward-arc mass along with having some 10x gravity pressed into your center and having your forward motion turned into a circular-central motion.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

Falling is a no. Jumping would still be a yes, as I had said previous. After all, falling wouldn't let him get to Tsunade anyways, so a jump off would be necessary and allow him a greater speed while going down.

TV (terminal velocity) isn't a standard number, and it can be increased by a number of factors. One such factor is form, as 50 m/s is belly-to-earth while a much higher number could be achieved by folding the arms in, reducing drag. The propelling from his legs would also add speed, meaning 50 m/s isn't even a plausable number in this scenario.

Asura, even at that speed naruto would be going, would be stopped merely because of the rasengan at his center. The rotation would add g-forces en masse to his body, preventing his forward movement, especially when you consider its launching speeds that its shown multiple times (PTS launched Kabuto into a rock pretty effectively, and that was a much weaker variant) as well as the rotational force it would pull in. You'd be hit by a fast moving downward-arc mass along with having some 10x gravity pressed into your center and having your forward motion turned into a circular-central motion.

Still irrelevant. Naruto would have to generate mach 6 sped from his jump to cover the horizontal distance.

Yay, you learned how to read wikipedia. Notice Naruto was nearly in belly flop position. ;D Anyway, given that the whole thing took less than a second, guess what the max vertical speed would be if he was falling/jumping? 9.81 m/s. IF it took 5 seconds, he could reach 50 m/s
Explain to me how Tsunade couldn't move out of the way in 5 seconds? Or an Anbu, who should be at least twice peak human, could not get her back across the whole crater.

Nope, the rasegan would only move him down. His forward mometum would not be affected. Again, learn how to add vectors.
Nope, instead the rasengan adds force in all directions. So instead of affecting Asura's motion, it should tear him up. Guess what happened? It tore him up. The rasengans' force went into that action, not moving him more than down by the speed of Naruto alone. Notice the rasengan never leaves Naruto's hand, so launch speed is not relevant. Or at least, Naruto is moving at the exact same speed as the rasengan.

[megabbaut]

Wikipedia sucks.

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Still irrelevant. Naruto would have to generate mach 6 sped from his jump to cover the horizontal distance.

Numbers please, I'd like to double check.

Yay, you learned how to read wikipedia. Notice Naruto was nearly in belly flop position.

Squatting, with evidence showing he landed feet first, so no.

;D Anyway, given that the whole thing took less than a second, guess what the max vertical speed would be if he was falling/jumping? 9.81 m/s. IF it took 5 seconds, he could reach 50 m/s

Falling, yes. Jumping, no. Especially if he went at a downward angled arc, he would be at a much higher speed. As you said, Average ninja is what, 50 m/s? We can assume he can launch himself that fast, not to mention all of the extra bits of gravity.

Explain to me how Tsunade couldn't move out of the way in 5 seconds? Or an Anbu, who should be at least twice peak human, could not get her back across the whole crater.

Nearly dead, fodder. Explain how the paths didn't see him coming if he ran. Also note Asura's position when he is hit, his arms and legs are arcing up, as well as Naruto's cloak being brought upwards. This shows a clear strike from above, as well as the whole "how did they not see him otherwise" and so on. Theres also his positioning, which would be impossible if he had anything but a near-vertical attack.

Nope, the rasegan would only move him down. His forward mometum would not be affected. Again, learn how to add vectors.

Irrelevant, vectors don't matter with how the rasengan works in addition to the heavy hit from directly above him.

Nope, instead the rasengan adds force in all directions. So instead of affecting Asura's motion, it should tear him up. Guess what happened? It tore him up. The rasengans' force went into that action, not moving him more than down by the speed of Naruto alone. Notice the rasengan never leaves Naruto's hand, so launch speed is not relevant. Or at least, Naruto is moving at the exact same speed as the rasengan.

Rasengan spirals, 168-2 as an example, and it does so before it even leaves the hand. 168-3 and 4 further the example to show the spiral, with the contacting end as a focus for the spin. It tore him in the same way whirlpools tear ships apart, being taking the greater mass and pulling it in towards the center. The heavier gravity would push him down along with the rotationals. Also, per se if it left his hand, where would it go? He had already hit the ground by that point.

Really, wooster, I expected better.



They put up a better debate two years ago.

[Wooster]

Numbers please, I'd like to double check.
Nothing stops you from going back and looking


Squatting, with evidence showing he landed feet first, so no.
And that would not make him go faster, still 50 m/s.


Falling, yes. Jumping, no. Especially if he went at a downward angled arc, he would be at a much higher speed. As you said, Average ninja is what, 50 m/s? We can assume he can launch himself that fast, not to mention all of the extra bits of gravity.
Jumping would actually making it slower He would have to go up then down. But gravity would not allow that. Meaning he did not jump. Glad you finally admitted that. Also, mean you just admitted Asura is going at least 50 m/s

Nearly dead, fodder. Explain how the paths didn't see him coming if he ran. Also note Asura's position when he is hit, his arms and legs are arcing up, as well as Naruto's cloak being brought upwards. This shows a clear strike from above, as well as the whole "how did they not see him otherwise" and so on. Theres also his positioning, which would be impossible if he had anything but a near-vertical attack.

But the fodder just moved faster than that the scence before. And I am only comparing to normal humans. Even fodder are much faster than that. Even a decripted old lady could move out of the way. If it was only vertical they would have seen him. But that really makes Naruto faster, pretty much assures he only left when Asura was close, not at the same time. In fact, given that Naruto only arrvies from nearly a perfect down velocity essntially forces him to have ran there and THEN jumped on top of Asura.

Irrelevant, vectors don't matter with how the rasengan works in addition to the heavy hit from directly above him.

They matter for all forces. THe force was eaten up destroying Asura, there was no force left to move him in any direction besides Naruto's speed.

If you say vectors don't matter, might as say force doesn't matter and accelreation doesn't matter and then you are left saying Naruto could be doing anything ;P

Rasengan spirals, 168-2 as an example, and it does so before it even leaves the hand. 168-3 and 4 further the example to show the spiral, with the contacting end as a focus for the spin. It tore him in the same way whirlpools tear ships apart, being taking the greater mass and pulling it in towards the center. The heavier gravity would push him down along with the rotationals. Also, per se if it left his hand, where would it go? He had already hit the ground by that point

If it doesn't leave naruto's hand, it's not moving faster than him. No exceptions. If it tore, no remaing force. Sorry that's how things work. Remember Jiraiya on the tree? The tree did not move it just got a nice hole in it.

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Numbers please, I'd like to double check.
Nothing stops you from going back and looking

Lazyness

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Squatting, with evidence showing he landed feet first, so no.
And that would not make him go faster, still 50 m/s.

Would have the same effect as if he were going head-first, so faster.


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Falling, yes. Jumping, no. Especially if he went at a downward angled arc, he would be at a much higher speed. As you said, Average ninja is what, 50 m/s? We can assume he can launch himself that fast, not to mention all of the extra bits of gravity.
Jumping would actually making it slower He would have to go up then down. But gravity would not allow that. Meaning he did not jump. Glad you finally admitted that. Also, mean you just admitted Asura is going at least 50 m/s

You must've missed the part where I noted that he was going down right off the get-go, so yeah. Practice your reading so you don't miss such obvious things. Also no, I'm fairly sure the feats show Asura to be an extremely slow moving character. Heck, even fodder "twice-peak human" anbu could react.

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Nearly dead, fodder. Explain how the paths didn't see him coming if he ran. Also note Asura's position when he is hit, his arms and legs are arcing up, as well as Naruto's cloak being brought upwards. This shows a clear strike from above, as well as the whole "how did they not see him otherwise" and so on. Theres also his positioning, which would be impossible if he had anything but a near-vertical attack.

But the fodder just moved faster than that the scence before. And I am only comparing to normal humans. Even fodder are much faster than that. Even a decripted old lady could move out of the way. If it was only vertical they would have seen him. But that really makes Naruto faster, pretty much assures he only left when Asura was close, not at the same time. In fact, given that Naruto only arrvies from nearly a perfect down velocity essntially forces him to have ran there and THEN jumped on top of Asura.

Impossible scenario, both given the position of the landing and the Asura path's body reactions. But lets take the idea and mold it. So you say he ran so fast that the Paths, things that some-what casually reacted to FRS, somehow couldn't spot and react to him running up? If that were true and he were running, why jump instead of a rasengan to the face? But lets remove logic, only have the idea of running, jumping, and landing. How fast, then, would Asura have to be moving to have Naruto land in a perfect squatting position, dead center? Far below 9.81 m/s/s, since any other speed would have too much hang-time to remove the idea of gravity completely from the table. So he runs, jumps, and somehow forces himself to land quicker despite the jump being slower, as you said. What if he launches from a distance while running? That would mean his forward momentum would carry him to Asura, not requiring the use of gravity for "jumping on top of him". A good theory, but such an action would've also been impossible because of how the arms and legs are bending up, the rasengan is going directly down, and Naruto's position. So then, how do you propose Naruto provided speed never again or before seen, jumped up and managed to not only end up in a vertical position but also somehow denied gravity in the meantime?

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Irrelevant, vectors don't matter with how the rasengan works in addition to the heavy hit from directly above him.

They matter for all forces. THe force was eaten up destroying Asura, there was no force left to move him in any direction besides Naruto's speed.

If you say vectors don't matter, might as say force doesn't matter and accelreation doesn't matter and then you are left saying Naruto could be doing anything ;P

Once the rasengan hits, what vectors come into play? Since you like to use the word as though you have the complete ideal, I'd like to hear exactly what happens when the rasengan hits, given we already know the motion and force behind it?

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Rasengan spirals, 168-2 as an example, and it does so before it even leaves the hand. 168-3 and 4 further the example to show the spiral, with the contacting end as a focus for the spin. It tore him in the same way whirlpools tear ships apart, being taking the greater mass and pulling it in towards the center. The heavier gravity would push him down along with the rotationals. Also, per se if it left his hand, where would it go? He had already hit the ground by that point

If it doesn't leave naruto's hand, it's not moving faster than him. No exceptions. If it tore, no remaing force. Sorry that's how things work. Remember Jiraiya on the tree? The tree did not move it just got a nice hole in it.

The tree was both rooted and the Rasengan was light. PTS naruto launched a grown man into, not against, but into a rock, Jirayia did the same to another grown man, lobbing him through a well-made fence. Looking at every other rasengan, I'd wonder why you chose the lowest-end feat to use.

[Wooster]

Instead of you inventing physics let's do some math, and show how absurd your "jumping" idea is.

Let's say Asura starts 20 m away (a bit farther than actual but the number will help)
And the frog is 100 m tall. As I said many times, the vertical and horizontal distances are orthogonal, they cannot mix. So instead lets bring the frog right on top of Tsunade i.e. we shall ignore that for now.

Asura is going to average your insanely slow 40 m/s(i.e. perhaps top speed 60 m/s but he has to accelerate). Naruto is going to drop straight down the 100 m.

How long will Asura take to reach Tsuande? 0.5 secs Half a second, good. Anything longer and Tsuande and ANBU would get her out of there.

How long will it take Naruto accelerating with gravity alone? Well 1/2 a*t^2 +vi*t=d.
Put in the d= 100m, vi= 0m/s a =9.81 m/s2 and you get 4.5 secs.
Once agin, your falling/jumping cannot be.
Naruto's final speed would also be just about 40 m/s Meaning he would only be moving at the same speed as Asura. Given that Asura was only six inches away from Tsunade, she would have been hit.

None of this has anything to do with the horizontal distance, which gives Naruto his mach speed. Suffice to say, Naruto was moving and acclerating much faster than gravity could allow. Sage Mode is fully operational, which leaves your rebel friends quite screwed.

[Kuromaki]

What the hell?

[Wooster]

I am gonna go through this mess now just for shits.
Lazyness

Then your laziness forces you to accept my argument.

Would have the same effect as if he were going head-first, so faster.
No really it wouldn't. You know this really well. It's the shape of a parachute, you know, something to slow you down.



You must've missed the part where I noted that he was going down right off the get-go, so yeah. Practice your reading so you don't miss such obvious things. Also no, I'm fairly sure the feats show Asura to be an extremely slow moving character. Heck, even fodder "twice-peak human" anbu could react.
I understood what you said, maybe you didn't. If he jumps he goes up. That's the definition of jumping. But my 20 m/s numbers gave Naruto mach 5 speed. 50 m/s would five Naruto even greater speed. You are digging your own grave.

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Impossible scenario, both given the position of the landing and the Asura path's body reactions. But lets take the idea and mold it. So you say he ran so fast that the Paths, things that some-what casually reacted to FRS, somehow couldn't spot and react to him running up? If that were true and he were running, why jump instead of a rasengan to the face? But lets remove logic, only have the idea of running, jumping, and landing. How fast, then, would Asura have to be moving to have Naruto land in a perfect squatting position, dead center? Far below 9.81 m/s/s, since any other speed would have too much hang-time to remove the idea of gravity completely from the table. So he runs, jumps, and somehow forces himself to land quicker despite the jump being slower, as you said. What if he launches from a distance while running? That would mean his forward momentum would carry him to Asura, not requiring the use of gravity for "jumping on top of him". A good theory, but such an action would've also been impossible because of how the arms and legs are bending up, the rasengan is going directly down, and Naruto's position. So then, how do you propose Naruto provided speed never again or before seen, jumped up and managed to not only end up in a vertical position but also somehow denied gravity in the meantime?

I will summarize what you just said Impossible because Asura moved fast
But to answer your question, you see Tsuande is in the line of sight between Asura and Tsunade. I don't think Naruto wanted to rasengan her. If Naruto ran extremely fast. He would have time to jump and thrust his arm down. Or do anything he likes pretty much. Becuase Naruto was moving so fast, Tsuande and fodder couldn't see him because they are an old lady and fodder, as you said. It is pretty clear Naruto has yet to move until Asura is only six inches away anyway, so we could see no reaction.

Also, just jumping off a frog would put Naruto at a diagonal and not the position we see, you have just blown up your own argument. Again. I seem to recall Naruto moving faster than the 3rd Raikage while only in Sage Mode.

Once the rasengan hits, what vectors come into play? Since you like to use the word as though you have the complete ideal, I'd like to hear exactly what happens when the rasengan hits, given we already know the motion and force behind it?

Simple, it tears though someone, see Kabuto. Did he immediately go flying? No. It tore him up and then launched. We know the rasengan didn't launch in this case because it is still in Naruto hands. The rasengan is wirl meaning vectors everywhere, yes, but their net sum equals zero. That's why it doesn't fall out of Naruto's hand. There can be a net circular motion, but that's what cause things to tear up just like a drill.

The tree was both rooted and the Rasengan was light. PTS naruto launched a grown man into, not against, but into a rock, Jirayia did the same to another grown man, lobbing him through a well-made fence. Looking at every other rasengan, I'd wonder why you chose the lowest-end feat to use.
The tree did not rock either.

Actually, the one you chose was the lowest end. That was only use two stages on him.
But I chose a simple example to illustrate. The same is true of Naruto on Kabuto. The push out happens after. If the rasengan doesn't leave the hand, it is moving the same speed as the hand.

[Kuromaki]

I really like how it posted twice. :3

[Wooster]

But two different messages too. o.O

[Kuromaki]

I had to keep posting because of that internal server error >.> Also happens when I try to mod things too.

[Uchiha Sora]

I just read the last page..

I'm black too. Just saiyan

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Kuromaki

I had to keep posting because of that internal server error >.> Also happens when I try to mod things too.

Ahh. I guess that makes sense.

[The 1st Hokage]

I'm in love with a stripper. Her name is Heather.

[Wooster]

Is she your mother?

[Jonesy]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Is she your mother?

No, she's mine. ._.

[The 1st Hokage]

Woo, now that's taking the redneck jokes too far.

[Wooster]

Why? Obviously you love your mom/. I only suggested she is a stripper.

[The 1st Hokage]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Why? Obviously you love your mom/. I only suggested she is a stripper.

My mother is a wonderful, intelligent woman. And she is a nurse fyi.