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Old 07-05-2012, 11:11 PM   #1
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Default Snake vs the Toad

Who wins Orochimaru vs Jiriaya

Neithor have knowledge, Orochimaru cannot use any Edo Tensei that he hasnot shown.

Both are bloodlusted

They are fighting in a 100 kilometer plain grassland field. They start 10 kilometers away from each other.
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:36 PM   #2
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

Oro wins by pure amount of jutsu plus anything that Jiraiya can do he can counter. furthermore no toad can withstand Manda much less his hydra tech and going sage mode would take way too long.
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Old 07-06-2012, 03:28 AM   #3
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

^ orochimaru already beat jiraiya twice why not the 3rd time?

1st time when jiraiya wanted to stop him from going from the village but it seemed oro beat him pretty easily.

2nd time when he stomped him even without his arms while jiraiya had 30% of his chakra.

Overall Orochimaru wins.


10 kilometers?plenty of time for orochimaru to use edo tensei and revive 1st 2nd hokages and summon manda to stomp jiraiya's ass.
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

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^ orochimaru already beat jiraiya twice why not the 3rd time?

1st time when jiraiya wanted to stop him from going from the village but it seemed oro beat him pretty easily.

2nd time when he stomped him even without his arms while jiraiya had 30% of his chakra.

Overall Orochimaru wins.


10 kilometers?plenty of time for orochimaru to use edo tensei and revive 1st 2nd hokages and summon manda to stomp jiraiya's ass.
1) IIRC Jiraiya didn't use the power of the sage toads, or Gamabunta. Not sure about that though I could be wrong.

2) Jiraiya was drugged by Tsunade and he couldn't control his chakra properly.

Sage Mode Jiraiya should take this. He was able to handle a multitude of Pain's summons while he was prepping Sage Mode.
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:01 AM   #5
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

Oro wins just because no knowledge

First Oro was toying with naruto 4tails and Jiryira almost died

If Jiryira had no knowledge on Oro then you can not win. HOW CAN ORO DIE!!! 4tails laid many fatal attacks on Oro and oro just grew new limbs.

Manda easily beats Gama but the only way the toads beat Manda is if Jiryria summons 3 toads. The three toads would take Manda but would have a hard time beating Oro.

Jiryria would have an IMPOSSIBLE time going into sage mode with Oro chasing after him. Oro could switch bodies wiht Jiryria or use his sword that can cut through "anything" Dont forget Oro's EIGHT TAILED SERPENT.

How does he defend against FORMATION OF TEN THOUSAND SNAKES.

Jiryria's only hope is going sage mode but how can he does not have enough time to go sage mode and There is NO way Jiryria can kill Oro in sage mode.

ORO WINS BECAUSE JIRYRIA CAN NOT KILL ORO (hes immortal)
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:02 AM   #6
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

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Originally Posted by Kioroshi. View Post
^ orochimaru already beat jiraiya twice why not the 3rd time?

1st time when jiraiya wanted to stop him from going from the village but it seemed oro beat him pretty easily.

2nd time when he stomped him even without his arms while jiraiya had 30% of his chakra.

Overall Orochimaru wins.


10 kilometers?plenty of time for orochimaru to use edo tensei and revive 1st 2nd hokages and summon manda to stomp jiraiya's ass.
Oro has no prep. Even with that distance he has to gather bodies up first. But Jiraiya can go SM on the way and Summons Gamabunta, Gamahiro, and Gamaken meaning Manda is outnumbered 3 to 1. In addition to those 3 Jiraiya has Fukasaka and Shima. While Manda is getting passed around like a cheap , Oro gets trapped in Frog Song by Fukasaka and Shimo, and Jiraiya sinks Oro in Yomi Numa.
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:16 AM   #7
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

HOW DOES ORO DIE genjutsu will not slove anything

Oro is a master at genjtusu
Oro has more snakes than just Manda

There is not alot of time for Jiryira to go into Sagge Mode he needs more prep

how does Jiryria beat
FORMATION OF TEN THOUSAND SNAKES
Binding Snake Glare spell
Body Shedding
Kusanagi
Paralyisis technique

Oro is immortal so HOW DOES HE DIE
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:00 AM   #8
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

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HOW DOES ORO DIE genjutsu will not slove anything Oh, Oro can't die by Genjutsu but Goku can? Wow

Oro is a master at genjtusu Haha that's funny. Oro knows no genjutsu as far as I know. But I may be wrong. Enlighten me.

Oro has more snakes than just Manda He has that 3 headed snake from the invasion of Konaha too, But Jiraiya is perfectly capable of dealing with them the same way he did before, with Summoning: Food Cart Destroyer Technique.

There is not alot of time for Jiryira to go into Sagge Mode he needs more prep There's 10 Kilometers of distance between them. That's 6 miles. Sounds like a good amount of time to me.

how does Jiryria beat
FORMATION OF TEN THOUSAND SNAKES Cho-odama Rasendgan (Massive Rasengan)

Binding Snake Glare spell Jiraiya is to fast for that.

Body Shedding Oro can't just use this whenever he gets hurt or wants to dodge an attack. It uses a large amount of chakra

Kusanagi is a sword. Jiraiya can step out of the way, then go straight at Oro with Rasengans

Paralyisis technique Is he going to paralyze the Fukasaka and Shima too? Because if not, Oro then is placed in Frog Song.

Oro is immortal so HOW DOES HE DIE
He's immortal huh? So why is he dead in the series?
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:25 AM   #9
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

WOW are you really bringing GOKU into this. Well due to the fact Oro is aware of genjutsu and can has survived other genjutsu attacks YEAH ORO CAN SURVIVE GENJUTSU ( goku can not)

Oro's genjutsu attacks: Genjutsu binding---and Oro has survived genjutsu from the GREAT ITACHI ( THERE enlightened??)

Oro's snakes: Manda---Eight Branches Technique---Three Giant Snakes---- Giant snakes used against Jiryria and tsunade ( that were caught in mud)

I will give you that one that is enough time to go in SAGE MODE... but how does he kill Oro ( although Oro could summon Manda to go underground and go to Jiryira befire he is in sage mode to attack underground but that may not happen)

Massive Rasengan CAN NOT TAKE OUT ALL OF THOSE SNAKES. It would take out some but Oro summons another Thousand or so to go after Jiryria and jiryria can not spam that kind of Rasengan

Jiryira is slower than Oro... Please Jiryria is not that fast and they are bound to get close for Jiryira to get Palralzyed.

Body Sheding is in case Jiryria lands A FATAL HIT. which would be hard and unlikely for Jiryira. Oro has PLENTY of chakra he can use it enough to survive.

Kusanagi is not just ANY SWORD it: leviates and soars at high speeds
Extends to INCREDIBLE LENGTHS QUICKLY
Cuts through diamonds ( or can do damage against diamonds)


Yes if Jiryria can go into Sage genjutsu will not work

Oro is not DEAD he was sealed by Itachi there is a difference and According to the Manga Oro MIGHT not be dead


You made some "okay" points but you still did not say how Jiryria would kill Oro
How does Jiryria stop:
Formation of Ten Thousand Snakes
Eight Branches
White Snake Poseesion

and Oro has INCREDIBLE DEFENCES like:
Attack Prevention
Rashomon
Body Shedding
Slithering Snake ( to quickly evade)
Soft Physique Modification

Oro is a MONSTER and Jiryria has nothing to stop him. Jiryria never beat Oro so why would this be any different??
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:02 AM   #10
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
WOW are you really bringing GOKU into this. Well due to the fact Oro is aware of genjutsu and can has survived other genjutsu attacks YEAH ORO CAN SURVIVE GENJUTSU ( goku can not) Key words: Other Genjutsu. He has never shown to be able to protect himself against

Oro's genjutsu attacks: Genjutsu binding---and Oro has survived genjutsu from the GREAT ITACHI ( THERE enlightened??) Genjutsu Binding is anime only, therefor non-canon. Sorry

Oro's snakes: Manda---Eight Branches Technique---Three Giant Snakes---- Giant snakes used against Jiryria and tsunade ( that were caught in mud) Eight Branches isn't a summoning, Orochimaru transforms into the 8-headed snake, though Oro can emerge from it's mouth

I will give you that one that is enough time to go in SAGE MODE... but how does he kill Oro ( although Oro could summon Manda to go underground and go to Jiryira befire he is in sage mode to attack underground but that may not happen) I doubt Oro would do that in bloodlust.

Massive Rasengan CAN NOT TAKE OUT ALL OF THOSE SNAKES. It would take out some but Oro summons another Thousand or so to go after Jiryria and jiryria can not spam that kind of Rasengan
The Rasengan won't kill all the snakes, but will burn a hole in them big enough for Jiraiya to make it through the attack.

Jiryira is slower than Oro... Please Jiryria is not that fast and they are bound to get close for Jiryira to get Palralzyed. In SM, Jiraiya was fighting multiple paths of Pein, somewhat effectively, reacting to them and keeping up with them. Sounds to me like he's pretty fast.

Body Sheding is in case Jiryria lands A FATAL HIT. which would be hard and unlikely for Jiryira. Oro has PLENTY of chakra he can use it enough to survive. Lets say hypothetically, Jiraiya uses SotU and to escape Oro uses Body Shedding, just to be met by a Cho-Odama Rasengan to the face

Kusanagi is not just ANY SWORD it: leviates and soars at high speeds
Extends to INCREDIBLE LENGTHS QUICKLY
Cuts through diamonds ( or can do damage against diamonds)
Yeah, I know what Kusanagi is, but Jiraiya is no

Yes if Jiryria can go into Sage genjutsu will not work
I don't understand what you're saying.

Oro is not DEAD he was sealed by Itachi there is a difference and According to the Manga Oro MIGHT not be dead
Okay...

You made some "okay" points but you still did not say how Jiryria would kill Oro
How does Jiryria stop:
Formation of Ten Thousand Snakes Explained
Eight Branches Swamp of the Underworld + Sage-Art: Goemon
White Snake Poseesion Anime only. non-canon

and Oro has INCREDIBLE DEFENCES like:
Attack Prevention Wont help with Swamp of the Underworld
Rashomon Good defense
Body Shedding Uses huge amounts of chakra
Slithering Snake ( to quickly evade) Wont help him dodge Swamp of the Underworld
Soft Physique Modification See above

Oro is a MONSTER and Jiryria has nothing to stop him. Jiryria never beat Oro so why would this be any different??

Because Jiraiya never used Sage mode on Oro, and Sage mode so greatly increases Jiraiya's speed, strength
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:14 AM   #11
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

Living Corpse Reincarnation FOR THE WIN
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:20 AM   #12
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Living Corpse Reincarnation FOR THE WIN
So how exactly is Oro going to perform that on someone who if fighting back at full force?
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:56 AM   #13
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

Oro goes white snake. Jiryira (is a lil freaked out) attacks it. Jiryria thinks he won but then is knocked out by posion.

Jiryria is then trapped in Oro's mental plane and his body gets taken over

It does not matter if Jiryria is fighting at full force. Jiryria has no genjutsu feats to break out of Oro's mental plane

Oro wins
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Old 07-06-2012, 07:05 PM   #14
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Oro goes white snake. Jiryira (is a lil freaked out) attacks it. Jiryria thinks he won but then is knocked out by posion.

Jiryria is then trapped in Oro's mental plane and his body gets taken over

It does not matter if Jiryria is fighting at full force. Jiryria has no genjutsu feats to break out of Oro's mental plane

Oro wins
1. Its bloodlusted, nobody just "freaks out" they go 100% the whole time trying to kill their opponent.

2. Jiraiya taught Naruto how to break out of genjutsu. The technique of stopping their own chakra flow to disrupt the genjutsu. How is that for a genjutsu feat?
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

Only the sharigan has been proven to break out of Oro's Living Corpse Reainamation. If others could break out they would snap out of it by stopping their chakra or causing themselves GREAT pain
( and for your other comments)
So what if Eight Branches is not a summoning it can still kick Jiryria's butt

Why would Oro not use Manda to go underground to get to his opponet he wants to kill. That is the best/fastest way for Oro to get to Jiryria.

Ok.... So Jiryria uses rasengan to burn a whole through the snakes. Then Jiryria is surronded by a SEA of SNAKES ( with swords in their mouths) the snakes would capture and kill Jiryria and hurt his summoning's body when they are on the ground.
Massive Rasengan would not stop FORMATION of TEN THOUSAND SNAKES

Oro would escape Swamp of the Underworld by the following
Use slithering snake to gain enough speed to dodge
use attact prevention
or
Summon a snake

With kusangi at Oro's dissposal. Jiryria will have to fight Oro while dodging his sword

Eight Branches will not be taken out by a small swamp and buring lava ( jiryria will be LONG dead by then)

It will be hard for Jiryria to get Oro with SotU when Jiryria can not see Oro.

Oro has PLENTY of chakra to use Body SHeding. Jiryria will not even get enough serious attacks in to hurt ORo that bad. Jiryria's most fatal attacks are Giant Rasegan ( EASY TO DODGE) and some fire jutsu's which can be defeated with earth style or clone or any of his other defences

Oro is smarter and overall better. Oro could just take over Jiryria's body anyway. HOW CAN JIRYIA BREAK OUT OF LIVING COURPSE REAINAMATION ( it is not genjutsu and the sharigan is the only way to break out of it... does Jiryria have sharigan ... NO)

Jiryria loses
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:42 PM   #16
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

The guy who said jiraiya's body was druged then.Yes it was but I would prefer to be druged and still use ninjutsu than to have no hands and that I cannot use them,well guess what?jiraiya still got his ass stomped.


I don't see how is sage mode jiraiya even fast?what did he dodge?slow summonings and preta-animal-and that other path THAT DON"T HAVE ANY SPEED FEATS.I do not see how jiraiya is faster than Orochimaru.


I hope you do realize that Oro's living corpse reincarnation is not an ordinary genjutsu that jiraiya can break out off.



Orochimaru tanked tsunades hit that can penetrate susano'o and only got a little of his skin shed so I don't see how can jiraiya hurt him and even if he does oro just regenerates.


prince of peace you say oro wins just because no knowledge?If this was manga knowledge or normal fight not in bloodlust oro would still win.


Oro can extend any of his limbs and choke with tongue,spit kusanagi in face while choking with tongue,extend his arms to great distances to punch or legs to kick,to avoid attack....Eight branchs or manda would not be taken out by swamp.

I do not see how manda can be touched in this fight,his skin literally tanked C0 I do not see any of feats on Toad side.



and many more..........

IF ALL FAILS FOR OROCHIMARU AND I DO NEVER SEE THAT HAPPENING.The poison out of white snake oro form gets jiraiya paralyzed and he can not break out,so oro eats him or something.

There is no possible way for jiraiya to win here cuz oro is overally better.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:51 PM   #17
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

Excellent points

Especially with no knowledge ANY ninja would freak out from Oro's abilities

Oro wins
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Old 07-07-2012, 01:06 AM   #18
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

WOW Well this thread is eerily familiar

I've debated with Kioroshi on this before but I haven't had the pleasure of arguing against you yet Prince although I'm not sure if you're the type to budge or not in a debate (time will tell).

I'll just address some things I saw earlier that I didn't like.

1.) Jiraiya will be "freaked out," seriously? Is that what we're playing at here. Jiraiya abducted a shinobi and tickled him into spilling information inside of a toad's stomach then turned the guy into a frog, I don't think this is the kind of person to get weirded out by strange techniques. He is an elite shinobi who maintained composure after getting his arm ripped off. If you're going to argue for Oro you're going to have to do more than shock value.

2.) Someone said they'd rather have poison with ninjutsu than no arms...well yeah that might work if the poison was just doing physical damage but it impaired Jiraiya's chakra control so much he was reduced to the level of genin Naruto...actually he was below Naruto, all he could summon was a tadpole. The gap in power from his hair techniques was enormous too. If you compare Jiraiya from that fight to the Jiraiya from the Pain fight the gap is ridiculous. Jiraiya easily summoned Gamaken, a boss level toad, and his hair technique was so strong it crushed a giant crab summon.

3.) Those snakes got murked by Naruto in 4 Tails Mode waving his hand. It was stated that Jiraiya's Giant Rasengan has the destructive power to hollow out a mountain, all he has to do is ram it head first into the snakes and it explodes on impact destroying all of them. It's a manga for crying out loud I can be scientific and analyze panels intensely too but challenging whether or not an attack blows up enough or not is just nitpicking. The snakes would be wiped out by that technique plain and simple. And if not Jiraiya can use a basic Katon technique, with his level of chakra a fireball would easily wipe them out.

4.) Eight Branches just makes Oro a GIANT target for Goemon and SoTU. And you just saying "that's not enough to take him out" doesn't make it true. Even crippled Jiraiya made a swamp big enough to take down a huge three headed snake, I don't see how a fully capable Jiraiya wouldn't be able to handle an eight headed one roughly the same size, especially after I just demonstrated the power gap between poisoned Jiraiya and normal Jiraiya.

5.) There is no way with two sage toads sitting on his shoulder constantly disrupting his chakra that Jiraiya could fall into Oro's genjutsu. That makes absolutely no sense. The only reason sharingan is the only thing we've seen used to break out of the body switching ritual is because none of the other ninja we've seen on panel have had anybody with them to disturb their chakra. The guy who's body Oro stole before he tried to take Sasuke's had killed everyone around him already.

6.) As for speed feats, Jiraiya's speed exploded as soon as he entered that mode. He pwned Animal Path with one kick to the face and he'd easily gotten behind Preta Path's back to speed blitz him, if the Rinnegan didn't share a visual field Preta would've been killed right there.

7.) You two keep prattling on about Kusanagi when it really doesn't make a difference here. Jiraiya's enhanced speed and precog. pretty much make kenjutsu useless (at least at Oro's level perhaps someone like Mifune, Kisame, or Bee could do something). If anything Ma and Pa's tongues are far more dangerous. Shima's tongue grabbed a giant chameleon and smashed it's face into the floor and Fukusaku's tongue cut it wide open. Of course Oro can regenerate but that doesn't mean he can't be physically restrained.


Anyways, the biggest problem in any Oro vs. Jiraiya debate in the past was how does Jiraiya win if Oro can't die. The solution now is simple, trap Oro in genjutsu from Frog Song. In my opinion, fights between Oro and Jiraiya are extremely close. Either side can justify their position. The two were powerful rivals and if you look at their techniques if either of them happened to get the first attack or maintain the element of surprise, the other would be finished in a second. This is one of the Naruto debates that may never end. The cop out would be to say that they're equal but no fans would ever agree to that.
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Old 07-07-2012, 02:37 AM   #19
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

Jiryiria has not FULLY mastered sage Mode yet so there is a time limit and it is no where near as strong as Naruto's.

Also Living Corpse Reincarnation is NOT GENJUTSU so having his toad buddies on his shoulder will not have any effect. THAT IS HOW ORO WINS. he attacks the white snake and Jiryria thinks he has won then he gets knocked out from posionous fumes and then his body is abosrbed.

Kusanagi would be leathal because jiryia likes to use rasengan up close

Rasengan is not going to stop 10,000 snakes. Even if it did oro summons 10,000 more.

oro did a WAY better job dealing with 4-tails then Jiryira ( i know Jiryria was not going all out but Oror pushed the 4-tails MUCH FURTHER to the point where he used TBB. Jiryia never had to face TBB)


Oro is immortal and genjutsu is Jiryira's only threat to win. but that needs prep so does sage mode. JIRIRYA NEEDS PREP TO DO ANY REALY DAMAGE. ORO CONSTANTLY ATTACKING GIVES JIRYRIA NO TIME/PREP

Overall when it comes down too it Oro will ALWAYS be better. If Oro had prep/time he could use edo tensi. NO prep is a HUGE advantage for Jiryria.

Oro has always been better than Jiryria why is now any different... just because he has sage mode does not make him good enough to defeat an insane monster snake.

oro can heal crazy fast. ORo could have done a WAY better job fighting pain because he is crazy and unpredictable.

HOW CAN JIRYRIA BEAT LIVING CORPSE REINCARNATION???
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:16 AM   #20
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Default Re: Snake vs the Toad

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
WOW Well this thread is eerily familiar

I've debated with Kioroshi on this before but I haven't had the pleasure of arguing against you yet Prince although I'm not sure if you're the type to budge or not in a debate (time will tell).

I'll just address some things I saw earlier that I didn't like.

1.) Jiraiya will be "freaked out," seriously? Is that what we're playing at here. Jiraiya abducted a shinobi and tickled him into spilling information inside of a toad's stomach then turned the guy into a frog, I don't think this is the kind of person to get weirded out by strange techniques. He is an elite shinobi who maintained composure after getting his arm ripped off. If you're going to argue for Oro you're going to have to do more than shock value.

2.) Someone said they'd rather have poison with ninjutsu than no arms...well yeah that might work if the poison was just doing physical damage but it impaired Jiraiya's chakra control so much he was reduced to the level of genin Naruto...actually he was below Naruto, all he could summon was a tadpole. The gap in power from his hair techniques was enormous too. If you compare Jiraiya from that fight to the Jiraiya from the Pain fight the gap is ridiculous. Jiraiya easily summoned Gamaken, a boss level toad, and his hair technique was so strong it crushed a giant crab summon.

3.) Those snakes got murked by Naruto in 4 Tails Mode waving his hand. It was stated that Jiraiya's Giant Rasengan has the destructive power to hollow out a mountain, all he has to do is ram it head first into the snakes and it explodes on impact destroying all of them. It's a manga for crying out loud I can be scientific and analyze panels intensely too but challenging whether or not an attack blows up enough or not is just nitpicking. The snakes would be wiped out by that technique plain and simple. And if not Jiraiya can use a basic Katon technique, with his level of chakra a fireball would easily wipe them out.

4.) Eight Branches just makes Oro a GIANT target for Goemon and SoTU. And you just saying "that's not enough to take him out" doesn't make it true. Even crippled Jiraiya made a swamp big enough to take down a huge three headed snake, I don't see how a fully capable Jiraiya wouldn't be able to handle an eight headed one roughly the same size, especially after I just demonstrated the power gap between poisoned Jiraiya and normal Jiraiya.

5.) There is no way with two sage toads sitting on his shoulder constantly disrupting his chakra that Jiraiya could fall into Oro's genjutsu. That makes absolutely no sense. The only reason sharingan is the only thing we've seen used to break out of the body switching ritual is because none of the other ninja we've seen on panel have had anybody with them to disturb their chakra. The guy who's body Oro stole before he tried to take Sasuke's had killed everyone around him already.

6.) As for speed feats, Jiraiya's speed exploded as soon as he entered that mode. He pwned Animal Path with one kick to the face and he'd easily gotten behind Preta Path's back to speed blitz him, if the Rinnegan didn't share a visual field Preta would've been killed right there.

7.) You two keep prattling on about Kusanagi when it really doesn't make a difference here. Jiraiya's enhanced speed and precog. pretty much make kenjutsu useless (at least at Oro's level perhaps someone like Mifune, Kisame, or Bee could do something). If anything Ma and Pa's tongues are far more dangerous. Shima's tongue grabbed a giant chameleon and smashed it's face into the floor and Fukusaku's tongue cut it wide open. Of course Oro can regenerate but that doesn't mean he can't be physically restrained.


Anyways, the biggest problem in any Oro vs. Jiraiya debate in the past was how does Jiraiya win if Oro can't die. The solution now is simple, trap Oro in genjutsu from Frog Song. In my opinion, fights between Oro and Jiraiya are extremely close. Either side can justify their position. The two were powerful rivals and if you look at their techniques if either of them happened to get the first attack or maintain the element of surprise, the other would be finished in a second. This is one of the Naruto debates that may never end. The cop out would be to say that they're equal but no fans would ever agree to that.


Heh you again....Wanna get back to our old debate?where you stated that jiraiya wins even if oro has edo tensei on his side?just ridiculuous.Well I am glad to see you again though.

This is a different debate they are in bloodlust here and some things are different too.


I will let prince of peace debate for me here and if I see something he did not say or counter I will be there.I hate quote wars thats why I kinda hate to debate.


Except there is much more of Jiraiya fanboys that Orochimaru fanboys...thats why they are considered even (oro and Jir)but in truth Oro is better in every aspect.


You say Jiraiya blitzed someone who has no reaction feats?lol ok...its so hard to do that.



What you mean by calling me someone who is likely to budge debate? ._.
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