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Old 06-22-2012, 11:00 AM   #21
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
Hey, that speech was the boomb.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:59 PM   #22
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
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Hey, that speech was the boomb.
I think you mean "bomb".
Silly drunk Wooster
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Old 06-25-2012, 06:34 AM   #23
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
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Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
Kid, sigh, stop you're starting to look foolish. Just because someone usually does something doesn't mean it's REQUIRED. It is a formality. What you're doing is like suggesting that a president who chooses not to give a State of the Union Address be impeached. It is a tradition but not part of the criteria for being president just like the valedictorian address isn't criteria for being valedictorian. You are awarded the title of valedictorian BEFORE you give the speech. The fact that you'd suggest someone lose their position requiring 4 years of hard work, for one transgression, shows either you have no idea of the meaning of proportionality in punishment, or you have some sort of personal bias related to this person's specific action...I'm guessing the latter.
The valedictorian is supposed to be the smartest person in the school. Well, you are a complete if your not giving your speech in english, so yes you should be stripped of your title.

No, what I am suggesting is that if the US President gave the State of the union Address in Russian then he should be impeached.

I don't care if he worked hard for 4 years. He should have worked smarter, not harder.

My Bias is it is America. Speak English or . Stop pandering to the illegal immigrants. If you want to be an American then do it the right way, thousands of people do. you only encourage more people to do it the wrong way when you give them a free pass.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:07 AM   #24
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
His speech, his time. He earned the time to say whatever he wants. That's what he wanted to say. I think its dumb to alienate 50% of your crowd, but its his call.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:13 AM   #25
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
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Originally Posted by Toma RNK View Post
to say whatever he wants.
Well we know that's not true since there's no freedom of speech in school. And the school could have pulled the plug whenever they wanted. Most ridiculous part of the story is that they had to approve the speech in the first place. I'd fire whomever was in charge of that school.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:39 AM   #26
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
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Well we know that's not true since there's no freedom of speech in school. And the school could have pulled the plug whenever they wanted. Most ridiculous part of the story is that they had to approve the speech in the first place. I'd fire whomever was in charge of that school.
Valedictorian is a status that is earned, and is not easy to do. He earned the privilege (if we are mincing words) to speak his mind.

Just because you have few rights at school does not make it correct to oppress (or repress) things.

Yes the school could have taken a different route, but they didn't, and as there is no overwhelming basis to overturn the decision, I feel the student earned it.

I believe that if the valedictorian wanted to give his speak in klingon or al-bhed it's OK to let him. I do not speak a word of Spanish, nor do I plan to, and were I there I would have regretted not hearing the kids words. But what makes you entitled to hear them? There is no inalienable right to inderstand what people are saying. They are his words in a country that technically has no official language spoken using an opportunity he struggled for. To take that away is a level of control or censoring I'm not comfortable with in this country..

Edit:

Also, from the article:

Quote:
Tello, however, told Mattos Newspapers Tuesday that he had asked to present his address in English and Spanish, but was told that there would only be time to present the speech in one language.
He was told to choose, and made a choice. He tried for both and was cut down.
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:04 AM   #27
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
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I believe that if the valedictorian wanted to give his speak in klingon or al-bhed it's OK to let him. I do not speak a word of Spanish, nor do I plan to, and were I there I would have regretted not hearing the kids words. But what makes you entitled to hear them? There is no inalienable right to inderstand what people are saying. They are his words in a country that technically has no official language spoken using an opportunity he struggled for. To take that away is a level of control or censoring I'm not comfortable with in this country...
I'm sorry, but I feel that is completely and utterly absurd.

What gives me entitled to understand a speech at my own graduation? The simple fact that it is my graduation as well, not just his. Everyone else may not have gotten as high of marks as him, but a lot of them worked just as hard to get the grades they received. By choosing to give a speech in a language not all understand he is disrespecting all of their accomplishments, and proving that while he may have "learned" the most, he obviously didn't learn the right things.

English may not be the official language, but last time I checked you are required to pass English in order to graduate from high school. Not Spanish, not Russian, not Polish, not Klingon, but English.

You claim that not allowing him to do the speech in the language of his choice is censoring, but I'd say that not allowing his audience to understand what he is saying is censoring.
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:39 AM   #28
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
Nice school you have there

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Old 06-25-2012, 03:18 PM   #29
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
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What gives me entitled to understand a speech at my own graduation? The simple fact that it is my graduation as well, not just his.
I don't think you know what a right is vs a privilege. There is no right to understandability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsuki View Post
By choosing to give a speech in a language not all understand he is disrespecting all of their accomplishments, and proving that while he may have "learned" the most, he obviously didn't learn the right things.
He offered to say it in both, and was told he couldn't (there is some debate on this but I'm inclined to believe the student. Administrators are often not clear with each other.

Quote:
English may not be the official language, but last time I checked you are required to pass English in order to graduate from high school. Not Spanish, not Russian, not Polish, not Klingon, but English.
It's not our official language period. The rest apples as this is really a question of how much a school should be allowed to censor it's students.

Quote:
You claim that not allowing him to do the speech in the language of his choice is censoring, but I'd say that not allowing his audience to understand what he is saying is censoring.
I am also unsure if you understand what censoring means. The audience wasn't censored. They could have spoken up, and didn't until later.

Again I would say this is a matter of how much a school can censor a student.
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:48 AM   #30
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
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I don't think you know what a right is vs a privilege. There is no right to understandability.

So what your saying is if I become the president I can make whatever law I want and if you can't understand it then too bad for you. Great world we live in.

He offered to say it in both, and was told he couldn't (there is some debate on this but I'm inclined to believe the student. Administrators are often not clear with each other.

He offered to say it in both, good for him. But he chose to say it in Spanish. Like I said, he obviously didn't learn the right things in school.

It's not our official language period. The rest apples as this is really a question of how much a school should be allowed to censor it's students.

Okay, so I guess every US law from now on can be written in Latin from now on and nobody can complain since the US doesn't have an official language.

I am also unsure if you understand what censoring means. The audience wasn't censored.

No you misunderstand, he was the one who was censored.

They could have spoken up, and didn't until later.

They didn't speak up because they couldn't understand why the hell some moron would give a graduation speech in Spanish.

Again I would say this is a matter of how much a school can censor a student.

A school can censor as much as they want until a court tells them otherwise
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:01 AM   #31
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
So what your saying is if I become the president I can make whatever law I want and if you can't understand it then too bad for you. Great world we live in.

Unlikely because presidents don't make law, congress does.


He offered to say it in both, good for him. But he chose to say it in Spanish. Like I said, he obviously didn't learn the right things in school.

Right things? Well, then isn't he returning what the school deserves for not teaching him those things?

Okay, so I guess every US law from now on can be written in Latin from now on and nobody can complain since the US doesn't have an official language.

It could be. But your arguement is a category error. Complaining has nothing to do with official or not.
No you misunderstand, he was the one who was censored.

If he was censored, how did he speak?

They didn't speak up because they couldn't understand why the hell some moron would give a graduation speech in Spanish.

Probably so.

A school can censor as much as they want until a court tells them otherwise

Or the censors get fired; they are public servants. I am thinking they like getting paid.


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Old 06-30-2012, 09:52 PM   #32
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
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The valedictorian is supposed to be the smartest person in the school. Well, you are a complete if your not giving your speech in english, so yes you should be stripped of your title.

No, what I am suggesting is that if the US President gave the State of the union Address in Russian then he should be impeached.

I don't care if he worked hard for 4 years. He should have worked smarter, not harder.

My Bias is it is America. Speak English or . Stop pandering to the illegal immigrants. If you want to be an American then do it the right way, thousands of people do. you only encourage more people to do it the wrong way when you give them a free pass.
Yeah I figured from your previous comments that you were one of those "Get these illegals outta here takin our jobs and not speakin our language" kind of people.

This kid was an AMERICAN citizen you twit, he's not an illegal, you're stereotyping and projecting your problems with another issue onto anything involving the spanish language. I'm not here to debate immigration policy I'm here to tell you that this person shouldn't have a title revoked for not performing a formality in the way you want. If you would impeach a president for giving the State of the Union in Russian you're a joke. Yes, that would be dumb yes he should receive a huge wave of criticism but that has nothing to do with his constitutional duties as president, you'd have no grounds to have him impeached. On top of that he wouldn't do that because he is aiming to serve the American people, there would be immediate consequences to his actions that he'd have to deal with, this valedictorian obviously thought the benefits outweighed the consequences.

I want you to be wary that excessive patriotism can be quite unsightly as you're demonstrating right now, don't let your love of your country blind your judgment.
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:30 AM   #33
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
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Yeah I figured from your previous comments that you were one of those "Get these illegals outta here takin our jobs and not speakin our language" kind of people.

This kid was an AMERICAN citizen you twit, he's not an illegal, you're stereotyping and projecting your problems with another issue onto anything involving the spanish language. I'm not here to debate immigration policy I'm here to tell you that this person shouldn't have a title revoked for not performing a formality in the way you want. If you would impeach a president for giving the State of the Union in Russian you're a joke. Yes, that would be dumb yes he should receive a huge wave of criticism but that has nothing to do with his constitutional duties as president, you'd have no grounds to have him impeached. On top of that he wouldn't do that because he is aiming to serve the American people, there would be immediate consequences to his actions that he'd have to deal with, this valedictorian obviously thought the benefits outweighed the consequences.

I want you to be wary that excessive patriotism can be quite unsightly as you're demonstrating right now, don't let your love of your country blind your judgment.
You're the twit. If you read my post I never called the kid illegal. I was asked to explain my Bias and I did. I was responding to two separate parts of the conversation.

So you wouldn't impeach a President who gave a State of the Union address in Russian? I seriously feel sad for the future of America. Truly and deeply sad if we have people with that kind of thinking that are going to be the future leaders of the country.

I'm not that Patriotic at all. America frankly sucks. Well, not necessarily America, but Americans. We are full of imbeciles, morons, illegals, religious freaks, and career politicians.
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:44 PM   #34
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
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You're the twit. If you read my post I never called the kid illegal. I was asked to explain my Bias and I did. I was responding to two separate parts of the conversation.

So you wouldn't impeach a President who gave a State of the Union address in Russian? I seriously feel sad for the future of America. Truly and deeply sad if we have people with that kind of thinking that are going to be the future leaders of the country.

I'm not that Patriotic at all. America frankly sucks. Well, not necessarily America, but Americans. We are full of imbeciles, morons, illegals, religious freaks, and career politicians.
No, giving the State of the Union address in Russian is extremely stupid and insensitive to the American public but it is NOT an impeachable offense, I feel sad for the future of America if we have people in this country who don't even know the constitution well enough to know the grounds for impeaching a president. It's been a while since I've taken a government class but I think treason, embezzlement (or maybe bribery), and crime are the only grounds you have for impeaching a president. If he doesn't do the traditions the way you like or more importantly he doesn't do his job well then you don't vote for him in the next election and you appeal to Congress and the Senate to fight for representation of yourself and your community, that is what the system of checks and balances are for.

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My Bias is it is America. Speak English or . Stop pandering to the illegal immigrants. If you want to be an American then do it the right way, thousands of people do. you only encourage more people to do it the wrong way when you give them a free pass.
You may not have called him illegal but you dragged immigration into this topic when it didn't need to be here, yes it explained your bias (and of course it was the bias I suspected) but to you must view issues with certain degrees of individuality and impartiality which you were not demonstrating in the slightest.

Quote:
English may not be the official language, but last time I checked you are required to pass English in order to graduate from high school. Not Spanish, not Russian, not Polish, not Klingon, but English.
Actually foreign language is a requirement for high school graduation :P

Patriotism, nationalism, whatever you want to call it you were bringing this us vs. them undertone into a conversation where it didn't belong. Yes, he may have done a disservice to his peers by doing the speech in Spanish. Yes, it was inconsiderate of him to do so. Yes, he probably should be chastised for his neglect of parts of the student body and their families. But this in NO way shape or form effects his title as valedictorian and you fail to grasp this simple concept. If you want to debate illegal immigration do it in that thread, gtfo of this one.
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:19 PM   #35
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No, giving the State of the Union address in Russian is extremely stupid and insensitive to the American public but it is NOT an impeachable offense, I feel sad for the future of America if we have people in this country who don't even know the constitution well enough to know the grounds for impeaching a president. It's been a while since I've taken a government class but I think treason, embezzlement (or maybe bribery), and crime are the only grounds you have for impeaching a president. If he doesn't do the traditions the way you like or more importantly he doesn't do his job well then you don't vote for him in the next election and you appeal to Congress and the Senate to fight for representation of yourself and your community, that is what the system of checks and balances are for.

I'd categorize the offense as treason. So it would be impeachable in my opinion. Might not hold up in court, but that is a separate issue.

You may not have called him illegal but you dragged immigration into this topic when it didn't need to be here, yes it explained your bias (and of course it was the bias I suspected) but to you must view issues with certain degrees of individuality and impartiality which you were not demonstrating in the slightest.

I must? Why must I? Who says? You? Why do I care what you say?

Actually foreign language is a requirement for high school graduation :P

Possibly in your state, but not in all. And even then it is a foreign language requirement, not exclusively spanish.

Patriotism, nationalism, whatever you want to call it you were bringing this us vs. them undertone into a conversation where it didn't belong. Yes, he may have done a disservice to his peers by doing the speech in Spanish. Yes, it was inconsiderate of him to do so. Yes, he probably should be chastised for his neglect of parts of the student body and their families. But this in NO way shape or form effects his title as valedictorian and you fail to grasp this simple concept. If you want to debate illegal immigration do it in that thread, gtfo of this one.

Who says it didn't belong? You? Why do you get to decide things? Fact is you don't.

You fail to grasp the concept that I believe it should effect his title as valedictorian. You may not agree, but that is why it is called a debate.

You are the one who seems to want to debate illegal immigration seeing as you keep bringing it up. (Oh and by the way, there is no debate. Illegal immigration is ILLEGAL)
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:21 PM   #36
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
Reasons I need to gtfo of this country ASAP: ^
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:58 PM   #37
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
I've never met people like this, Nickles. :/
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:14 PM   #38
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
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Originally Posted by Nick Tasogare View Post
Reasons I need to gtfo of this country ASAP: ^
I hope this wasn't directed at me.

@tsuki

Sigh if you tried to call that treason I hope the president gets the best lawyers in the country to countersue your frivolous lawsuit. That has to be a joke.

Your whole response boiled down to "Who died and made you king? Why should I listen to what you say? You're not the boss of me!!!!"

I hope you haven't resorted to this style of debating where you question every valid point like a four year old. Why should you view issues with a degree of impartiality and on a case by case basis, because that prevents your bias from influencing your judgment to the point of you ignoring reasonable objections to your view or suggesting unreasonable, disproportionate consequences for certain actions (e.g. what you've been doing this entire thread).

Why doesn't a talk about illegal immigration belong in a thread about a student giving a valedictorian speech in spanish? Well for one he's most likely a legal citizen. Two, his speech had nothing to do with the topic. And three, even if you do want to somehow tie this to immigration it has nothing to do with the consequences this boy should be given for his action, you are free associating.

I wasn't giving "because I said so" answers, my responses had reasoning behind them, therefore a simple "Why do I have to do this?" doesn't suffice, you need to respond to the logic and the explanation given, and before you ask "Why do I have to do that?" It's because that's how you debate and before you say "Who says so" numerous scholastic organizations, any formal debating group, and basic common sense feel free to challenge those things if you wish.
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:33 PM   #39
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
Ikr Baconzz?

Nope, it was at Tsuki.

I understand the thought that everyone needs to learn English/not expect us to learn their language if they're gonna live here, and I agree with it. But this kid is just balls to the wall ridiculous lol
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Was on to check PMs and read about the drama and got hit with the forums rules.

Can Herr SRhyse and Frau Muffintop please remove my staff "powers"? The Mod Rules are a joke and everybody knows it lol I don't follow that last rule well enough, and I don't want to endanger the Communist Rule of the People's Republic of NDF. Thanks.

/Heil

Oh wait, now there's drama so I just have to watch this all blow up.
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:14 AM   #40
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Default Re: Valedictorian speech in spanish?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
I hope this wasn't directed at me.

@tsuki

Sigh if you tried to call that treason I hope the president gets the best lawyers in the country to countersue your frivolous lawsuit. That has to be a joke.

And I would hope he doesn't so we could get the moron out of office.

Your whole response boiled down to "Who died and made you king? Why should I listen to what you say? You're not the boss of me!!!!" Good, you can read, I hoped their might be some intelligence in this post.

I hope you haven't resorted to this style of debating where you question every valid point like a four year old. No, just invalid points.
Why should you view issues with a degree of impartiality and on a case by case basis, because that prevents your bias from influencing your judgment to the point of you ignoring reasonable objections to your view or suggesting unreasonable, disproportionate consequences for certain actions (e.g. what you've been doing this entire thread).

You clearly don't know how to debate. Your mindset is that of a judge, whose job it is to be impartial. My job as a debater is argue on my side of things. It simply stupid to believe someone should be impartial when debating their side of an issue. The only person who would do that is someone who wants to lose.

Why doesn't a talk about illegal immigration belong in a thread about a student giving a valedictorian speech in spanish? Well for one he's most likely a legal citizen. never said he was or wasn't. Two, his speech had nothing to do with the topic. never said it did. And three, even if you do want to somehow tie this to immigration it has nothing to do with the consequences this boy should be given for his action again, never said it did., you are free associating.

And again, you are the one who keeps bringing the topic up not me. I suggest you go make a thread about it if you wish to continue talking about it.

I wasn't giving "because I said so" answers, my responses had reasoning behind them, Flawed reasoning. therefore a simple "Why do I have to do this?" doesn't suffice, you need to respond to the logic and the explanation given What logic?, and before you ask "Why do I have to do that?" It's because that's how you debate No, that is simply your ill informed view on how to debate. and before you say "Who says so" numerous scholastic organizations, any formal debating group, and basic common sense Basic common sense says you should learn how to debate before attempting to instruct others on how to do it. feel free to challenge those things if you wish.
How about you actually comment about what I write instead of inserting your words into mine?
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