Danzo vs Orochimaru (and edo's)

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

Everyone does realize if they are ET's that they can't die right, so one they both WAY stronger than Danzo, Two Danzo's Koto is not that strong because since he was not an Uchiha he could not use the full powers of Shiusi's sharingan and unlike Kakashi who trained with his sharingan to get mongekyou, Danzo did not train with his at all, he simply knew of the moves.

Plus Tobirama could just use his Bringer-of-Darkness Technique and then koto would be completely useless since Danzo can no longer see either of his targets.

[PrinceofPeace]

Danzo wins .... or at least in a tie

Its a confined space so Danzo could summon Baku to suck in all of the enemies ( Its not a sealing jutstu but it would stop the edo's.) Fire style was the only thing on record that could destroy Baku.

Current Danzo is far past the third's level. If Danzo gets killed he would easily come back to life.

Not to mention his genjutsu and koto to take out at least one of the enemies.

Since it is a samll confined space Oro is at a HUGE disadvantage. He can not summon Manda or the Eight serpent thing or the rashomon

If Danzo gets in trouble he can tie with the Reverse Four Symbols Sealing Technique

[TheBlackChidori]

Originally Posted by Hotarubi Hyuuga

Everyone does realize if they are ET's that they can't die right, so one they both WAY stronger than Danzo, Two Danzo's Koto is not that strong because since he was not an Uchiha he could not use the full powers of Shiusi's sharingan and unlike Kakashi who trained with his sharingan to get mongekyou, Danzo did not train with his at all, he simply knew of the moves.

Plus Tobirama could just use his Bringer-of-Darkness Technique and then koto would be completely useless since Danzo can no longer see either of his targets.

But it wouldn't take for Danzo to Koto and tell Orochimaru to make the "Release" signs. =/

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

But it wouldn't take for Danzo to Koto and tell Orochimaru to make the "Release" signs. =/

OK I didn't really care much for the Danzo fight which would explain why I didn't know who Baku was, but unless I'm mistaken Danzo used nothing with this sharingans other than Izanagi and Koto. sure Orochimaru was overcome by Sasuke, but Sasuke was an uchiha who trained with the genjutsu in his eyes. Danzo did not, so without Koto where is this releasing of seals command he's giving Orochimaru coming from? because regular genjutsu just isn't going to cut it.

[PrinceofPeace]

Plus Danzo's sharigan can see through genjutsu.

Danzo will win he has sealing jutsu to finish off edos

[TheBlackChidori]

Originally Posted by Hotarubi Hyuuga

OK I didn't really care much for the Danzo fight which would explain why I didn't know who Baku was, but unless I'm mistaken Danzo used nothing with this sharingans other than Izanagi and Koto. sure Orochimaru was overcome by Sasuke, but Sasuke was an uchiha who trained with the genjutsu in his eyes. Danzo did not, so without Koto where is this releasing of seals command he's giving Orochimaru coming from? because regular genjutsu just isn't going to cut it.

Without Koto, he can't make Orochimaru release. That's his only option but it's an unrestricted option and the reason he's so high on the tier list.

Against this opponent in this scenario involving multiple opponents, he's in the position to use koto once and effectively eliminate all 3 opponents.

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Plus Danzo's sharigan can see through genjutsu.

Danzo will win he has sealing jutsu to finish off edos

Bringer-of-Darkness Technique This technique exerts an hallucinatory effect upon the eyesight, effectively blinding the opponent. No matter how skilled an opponent may be, they are forced to wait helpless in this world of darkness, as this technique allows the user to attack unseen. Although it negates sight, it does not stop the other senses.

Reverse Four Symbols Sealing Technique This technique is a fūinjutsu that the user places across their chest, and sets it to activate upon their death. The technique releases four symbols from the user's body that then form a large, black sphere around them. Anything caught inside the sphere's area is then drawn in and sealed within the user's corpse.

So A it doesn't matter that he has sharingan he still wouldn't be able to see them through bringer of darkness and B he can only seal people when he is about to die so if he were forced to use it he'd lose too.

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

Without Koto, he can't make Orochimaru release. That's his only option but it's an unrestricted option and the reason he's so high on the tier list.

Against this opponent in this scenario involving multiple opponents, he's in the position to use koto once and effectively eliminate all 3 opponents.

What I am asking you is how can he hit a target that he can't see effectively with Koto? How can he hit someone with a jutsu if he can't see them?

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Hotarubi Hyuuga

Everyone does realize if they are ET's that they can't die right, so one they both WAY stronger than Danzo, Two Danzo's Koto is not that strong because since he was not an Uchiha he could not use the full powers of Shiusi's sharingan and unlike Kakashi who trained with his sharingan to get mongekyou, Danzo did not train with his at all, he simply knew of the moves.

Plus Tobirama could just use his Bringer-of-Darkness Technique and then koto would be completely useless since Danzo can no longer see either of his targets.

Danzo can seal. Seals strong enough to stop Sasuke. ETs almsot provide no threat to Danzo at all.

ETs are actaully weaker than Danzo. Danzo broke through Susano'o, the ETS couldn't even beat Hiruzen.

The is not indication that Danzo's Koto is not stronger than any other. He has Shiui's eye, so it is the same.

Baku takes care of darkness. It would jsut suck them both in. Or Danzo coudl jsut use his wind style technique as he did agsint the fodder ninja. It's a great AOE attack.

Originally Posted by Hotarubi Hyuuga

OK I didn't really care much for the Danzo fight which would explain why I didn't know who Baku was, but unless I'm mistaken Danzo used nothing with this sharingans other than Izanagi and Koto. sure Orochimaru was overcome by Sasuke, but Sasuke was an uchiha who trained with the genjutsu in his eyes. Danzo did not, so without Koto where is this releasing of seals command he's giving Orochimaru coming from? because regular genjutsu just isn't going to cut it.

You don't care for the best fight in Part II? Strange.

Danzo also has speed burst when sharingan are used. At least enough to avoid Sasuke using chidori, and easily avoid it at that.

Sasuke used genjutsu on Danzo, he could only make it last seconds. That also without the sharingan being active. Danzo is extremely strong agaisnt genjutsu at least much stronger than orochimaru.

Danzo can use Koto; he used it on Mifune.


Edit: You are talking about the wrong seal jutsu. Danzo has a basic seal that trapped Sasuke.

[TheBlackChidori]

Using bringer of darkness on an opponent with Izanagi seems like the worst idea possible. Especially since Sasuke has been able to discern chakra with his sharingan among clones, in theory it would work in the dark too. Not to mention he has used Koto from behind bandages.

[Wooster]

Is bringer of darkness considered genjutsu?
If it is, not going to work on Danzo. If Sasuke can only make a genjutsu work for 5 seconds, it ain't gonna work.

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Danzo can seal. Seals strong enough to stop Sasuke. ETs almsot provide no threat to Danzo at all.

ETs are actaully weaker than Danzo. Danzo broke through Susano'o, the ETS couldn't even beat Hiruzen.

The is not indication that Danzo's Koto is not stronger than any other. He has Shiui's eye, so it is the same.

Baku takes care of darkness. It would jsut suck them both in. Or Danzo coudl jsut use his wind style technique as he did agsint the fodder ninja. It's a great AOE attack.


You don't care for the best fight in Part II? Strange.

Danzo also has speed burst when sharingan are used. At least engouh to avoid Sasuke using chidori, and eaily avoid it at that.

Sasuke used genjutsu on Danzo, he could only make it last seconds. That also without the sharingan being active. Danzo is extremely strong agaisnt genjutsu at least much stronger than orochimaru.

Danzo can use Koto; he used it on Mifune.


Edit: You are talking about the wrong seal jutsu. Danzo has a basic seal that trapped Sasuke.

First off the Hashirama could easily kill baku if he were summoned and are you trying to say that Danzo is stronger than both Tobirama and Hashirama, the man who defeated Madara? No I don't think so. now could Danzo probably take out Orochimaru if he had the chance, yes, but that is basically his only option.

If Baku sucked them up, they are Edo which means they won't be dead and they'd be able to kill Baku by using Jutsu from the inside.

And no I didn't care for the "best fight" in part two, because A Sasuke had already pissed me off with his stupidity and B I never really liked Danzo anyway.

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

Using bringer of darkness on an opponent with Izanagi seems like the worst idea possible. Especially since Sasuke has been able to discern chakra with his sharingan among clones, in theory it would work in the dark too. Not to mention he has used Koto from behind bandages.

I'm sorry, but does Izanagi have to with bringer of Darkness? and yes he used Koto from behind a bandage, but he could still see everyone with this other eye is what I am saying.

Originally Posted by Wooster

Is bringer of darkness considered genjutsu?
If it is, not going to work on Danzo. If Sasuke can only make a genjutsu work for 5 seconds, it ain't gonna work.

I might agree with you if this were someone else however, Sasuke is no Tobirama and also bringer of darkness cannot be stopped no matter how skilled the ninja is, so Danzo stopping Sasuke's genjutsu from lasting for more than 5 minutes really doesn't apply to bringer of darkness.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Hotarubi Hyuuga

First off the Hashirama could easily kill baku if he were summoned and are you trying to say that Danzo is stronger than both Tobirama and Hashirama, the man who defeated Madara? No I don't think so. now could Danzo probably take out Orochimaru if he had the chance, yes, but that is basically his only option.

If Baku sucked them up, they are Edo which means they won't be dead and they'd be able to kill Baku by using Jutsu from the inside.

And no I didn't care for the "best fight" in part two, because A Sasuke had already pissed me off with his stupidity and B I never really liked Danzo anyway.

Where is the proof of that? ET Hashirma has no feats to do that. `

Easily. These are ETs after all. The only feats we can consider are the ones we saw verses Hiruzen. There are no other feats, the rest is hearsay.

Hiruzen trapped them with the Reaper, no reason Danzo can't trap them with his seal. It is applied in much the same way.

Danzo reverse sumons Baku, then they are gone from the battlefield.

So you had no good reason to ignore the best fight, and you admit you have no idea what you are talking about

Edit: Read again, I said 5 seconds not 5 minutes. We have no power comparion for Tobirama genjutsu but I think it is safe to say it's weaker than an MS Uchiha genjutsu.

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Where is the proof of that? ET Hashirma has no feats to do that. `

Easily. These are ETs after all. The only feats we can consider are the ones we saw verses Hiruzen. There are no other feats, the rest is hearsay.

Hiruzen trapped them with the Reaper, no reason Danzo can't trap them with his seal. It is applied in much the same way.

Danzo reverse sumons Baku, then they are gone from the battlefield.

So you had no good reason to ignore the best fight, and you admit you have no idea what you are talking about

Edit: Read again, I said 5 seconds not 5 minutes. We have no power comparion for Tobirama genjutsu but I think it is safe to say it's weaker than an MS Uchiha genjutsu.

OK then if we are not allowed to use ALL their feats then yeah, I guess Danzo wins. My bad I though we could use all their feats.

Second I had good reason to ignore that fight because I already knew that Sasuke was going to win, what you though Kishimoto was going to make his officially stated favorite character lose? and its not like I didn't watch the fight at all, my brother was watching it while I was playing the game and watched in on and off, but since I didn't really care for it, I didn't remember much about it.

Lastly bringer of darkness basically says that it doesn't matter how strong the opponent is, that they would be forced to sit helplessly in darkness. so rather you think MS sharingan is stronger or not doesn't really matter since its basically saying that it can't be stopped unless the dude is dead or removed from the battle field.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Hotarubi Hyuuga

OK then if we are not allowed to use ALL their feats then yeah, I guess Danzo wins. My bad I though we could use all their feats.

Second I had good reason to ignore that fight because I already knew that Sasuke was going to win, what you though Kishimoto was going to make his officially stated favorite character lose? and its not like I didn't watch the fight at all, my brother was watching it while I was playing the game and watched in on and off, but since I didn't really care for it, I didn't remember much about it.

Lastly bringer of darkness basically says that it doesn't matter how strong the opponent is, that they would be forced to sit helplessly in darkness. so rather you think MS sharingan is stronger or not doesn't really matter since its basically saying that it can't be stopped unless the dude is dead or removed from the battle field.

Well, there are no other feats besides those. We haven't seen the Madara Hashirama fight
It also seems pretty clear that ETs seems weaker than the originals except for perhaps in Madara's case.

Well, we also knew Naruto was going to beat Pain. Did you ignore that fight too?
But my only point is, if you ignored the fight, you aren't conversant in the relavent Danzo feats and even some Sasuke feats which relate to Orochimaru.

I think it matter if you consider Bringer of Darkness a ninjutsu, it somehow saps all light, or a genjutsu, it makes the person think they can't see.
If it is the latter, it is unlikely to work on Danzo. He is a beast when it comes to dispelling genjutsu. Much stronger than Orochimaru in any case.

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Well, there are no other feats besides those. We haven't seen the Madara Hashirama fight
It also seems pretty clear that ETs seems weaker than the originals except for perhaps in Madara's case.

Well, we also knew Naruto was going to beat Pain. Did you ignore that fight too?
But my only point is, if you ignored the fight, you aren't conversant in the relavent Danzo feats and even some Sasuke feats which relate to Orochimaru.

I think it matter if you consider Bringer of Darkness a ninjutsu, it somehow saps all light, or a genjutsu, it makes the person think they can't see.
If it is the latter, it is unlikely to work on Danzo. He is a beast when it comes to dispelling genjutsu. Much stronger than Orochimaru in any case.

There is a difference, Naruto hadn't pissed me off, plus I wanted to see pain get his for what he did to Jiraya.

Plus my brother just told me that Orochimaru gave Danzo his sharingan arm so wouldn't that mean that orochimaru would know how to stop Danzo's Izanagi's or dispel his arm anyway?

[PrinceofPeace]

The sharigan sees the flow of chakra. They are also able to tell if a person is under a genjutsu because the person's chakra flow would be irregular. The Sharingan's second-most prominent ability grants the user an incredible clarity of perception, allowing them to easily recognise genjutsu and different forms of chakra so danzo could break out of the genjutsu plus he trained with the third so he sould have equal sensory abilities. He knew that he was being trailed by anbu.

Also how does Oro's team beat Baku??? The Edo's are not as strong as they once were. Oro's edo tensi was no as good as Kabuto's. WHo knows what happens to the victum when they are sucked up so who is to say they can use attacks inside of it.

What can Oro do. I will tell you what he CANT DO
Summon Manda
Eight Branches
Rashomon

Danzo tries to fight edos hand to hand and with winds style but gets his butt kicked then he summons Baku ( just like the third summoned his monkey) Baku sucks everyone up( the only known way to defeat Baku is with fire which none of them have) so how can Oro and edos win???
worse comes to worse Danzo suicides with Four Reverse Sealing

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

I said Aoba in my earlier post but meant Ao.



You're arguing for the sake of arguing even though you're 100% wrong, which is the biggest flaw I have with you.

1. The 4th was a male.
Typo

2. Only clones have the same chakra. Sensory ninja don't pick up the trail of Uchiha by their Sharingan, everyone has an individual chakra.
I'm pretty sure eyeballs don't have chakra, and the only way for Aoba to tell would be to decide using the chakra type of the genjutsu itself. Meaning that sharingan genjutsu has a specific chakra signature to it.

3. I never claimed Danzo controlled the 4th. It was Shisui who controlled the 4th, via Tobi.

Don't see how so being by the time that happened Suisui had no eyes. As I said, Tobi didn't have shisui's eyes on him.

4. Ao actually came out and said "I fought Shisui Uchiha, it's the same chakra." when noticing Danzo's chakra.
Don't recall character statements being end-all definitive. So does that mean kakashi actually reacted to and cut lightning? Or are we just being selective :P

5. Koto would control Oro. It controls anything. Oro can't regurgitate out of him. Even Sasuke overpowered Orochimaru with his genjutsu. Even Tobi was wary of Danzo's Koto, as Danzo's strategy was to save it for Tobi.

Then proof me on it, because if we go off of feats instead of hype then Koto has been shown to override kabuto control in the hands of someone with MS, and get someone to agree with you in Danzo's hand.

Tobi being wary of it doesn't mean the same as being afraid of it, and if it were really all that powerful then Danzo wouldn't have been so open to use it. Above that, if it were indeed that powerful then he wouldn't really have any need for izanagi. If we are going off of the idea that koto can indeed control anything and whatnot (A no-limits fallacy) then we can also note that its a MS feated ability, so without Danzo being capable of it we can't assume its of the same power.

Also wooster, despite what you said much earlier, no. There is a power difference, an almost clear-cut one, in a comparison of MS derived and Sharingan-basic derived jutsus. If we adopt the no-limits that it can control anything then this debate took a turn for the asenine.

Plainly, eyes have chakra signatures, and Shisui has never made someone come close to commiting suicide. Likewise, Oro has knowledge and it seems like it would be pretty easy to avoid by just white-snaking off of the bat, something Danzo has no counter for. Danzo summons Baku? White-snaked. Danzo tries to unseal his arm oro knows about? White Snaked.
Danzo tries to koto him to release the kages? White snaked and killed by the lesser Kages since ET seem to operate seperate of the source.

And since Danzo doesn't seem to have the genjutsu reversing feat common to sharingan, it looks like the eyes are only good for technique use.

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

The sharigan sees the flow of chakra. They are also able to tell if a person is under a genjutsu because the person's chakra flow would be irregular. The Sharingan's second-most prominent ability grants the user an incredible clarity of perception, allowing them to easily recognise genjutsu and different forms of chakra so danzo could break out of the genjutsu plus he trained with the third so he sould have equal sensory abilities. He knew that he was being trailed by anbu.

Also how does Oro's team beat Baku??? The Edo's are not as strong as they once were. Oro's edo tensi was no as good as Kabuto's. WHo knows what happens to the victum when they are sucked up so who is to say they can use attacks inside of it.

What can Oro do. I will tell you what he CANT DO
Summon Manda
Eight Branches
Rashomon

Danzo tries to fight edos hand to hand and with winds style but gets his butt kicked then he summons Baku ( just like the third summoned his monkey) Baku sucks everyone up( the only known way to defeat Baku is with fire which none of them have) so how can Oro and edos win???
worse comes to worse Danzo suicides with Four Reverse Sealing

Answer my statemtents they cant beat Baku

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Answer my statemtents they cant beat Baku

White Snake
Danzo is incapable of summoning it anyways because of the size of the arena.