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Old 06-04-2012, 08:54 AM   #101
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

I fail to see how this is even a debate anymore.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:02 AM   #102
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

I find it hard to see how it was a debate to begin with

Especially since gandalf was allowed to use his full maiar abilities
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:39 AM   #103
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

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The Elder Wand doesn't make you invincible. Not only did the original wielder get murdered, his murderer defeated in a duel, Grindelwald defeated in a duel, Dumbledore failed to kill Voldemort with it, Draco disarmed Dumbledore, Draco failed to do anything with it, Harry wrestled it out of his hands and took it, finally did something useful with it but mostly cause Voldy's wand was broke and he was out of horcruxes.

That being said, it by no means makes the user invincible. It's definitely the strongest wand of the HP Verse, but that's still nothing.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:43 AM   #104
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

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That's not true considering that one of the titans in greek mythology was sentenced to have his liver eaten out daily and because he had immortality via deity status he did not die and it regenerated

So that logic you provided is invalid in this case especially if we're dealing with. Maiar gandalf

Further more killing spells don't work on spirit beings of which the maiar most certainly are

They are however vulnerable to mindrape and soulfukking but only if their opponet has shown themselves capable of matching or nearly matching their power

At their strongest:

Albus dumbledor- prominent an d strong(in universe standards) wizard

Olorin- a semi immortal spirit being that can island bust as a minum and can survive a minum of island busting

Now tell me who is winning this fight between a spirit being and a wizard?
How about no. You do know I have read lotr. Gandalf has bee n in a many if a battle. He is not even a being on the level you are describing. His Mair form is possibly even that is a maybe. But his grey and white form hell no. Those both were simple human like forms. He just had powerful magic. Not only that its a fallacy to say they can tank anything without actually showing them do So. Counter the spell maybe tank to have to prove that.
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:18 PM   #105
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

And I said IN THEIR STRONGEST FORMS

In his strongest form gandalf is a spirit being. In his grey and white forms they are human shaped vessels and his power is limited

And it still doesn't change the fact that he won against a balrog which is a full maiar while in his grey status and a balrog is well above HP wizards

And you have to prove avada kedavra WILL work on someone above its caster's power level which FYI if the caster is below his targets power level the effect will be less or even non existent

We know this from a statement from gilderoy lockeheart and was backed up when harry tried to use the torure spell on that deatheater in the order of the pheonix and it barely affected her.

Since excrucio is in the same class of spells as avada kedavre we should be able to scale them especially since avada has failed to affect people before to its full extent such as when it rebounded back on voldemort because of lily's protection charm that was used on the infant harry

Also ALL other potterverse spells' effectiveness depends on the difference between the caster and targets power

In addition gandalf in his white status has superhuman reactions and potterverse has at most peak human reactions and attack speeds

Two of gandalf's 3 forms are clearly on a higher level than dumbledore and his weakest can produce barriers that can definitely tank whatever dumbledore can dish out, Add to that gandalf's DC which you admitted he has more Than dumbledore can take.

Now who is winning?
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:14 PM   #106
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

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Originally Posted by shinigan no sora View Post
And I said IN THEIR STRONGEST FORMS

In his strongest form gandalf is a spirit being. In his grey and white forms they are human shaped vessels and his power is limited

And it still doesn't change the fact that he won against a balrog which is a full maiar while in his grey status and a balrog is well above HP wizards

And you have to prove avada kedavra WILL work on someone above its caster's power level which FYI if the caster is below his targets power level the effect will be less or even non existent

We know this from a statement from gilderoy lockeheart and was backed up when harry tried to use the torure spell on that deatheater in the order of the pheonix and it barely affected her.

Since excrucio is in the same class of spells as avada kedavre we should be able to scale them especially since avada has failed to affect people before to its full extent such as when it rebounded back on voldemort because of lily's protection charm that was used on the infant harry

Also ALL other potterverse spells' effectiveness depends on the difference between the caster and targets power

In addition gandalf in his white status has superhuman reactions and potterverse has at most peak human reactions and attack speeds

Two of gandalf's 3 forms are clearly on a higher level than dumbledore and his weakest can produce barriers that can definitely tank whatever dumbledore can dish out, Add to that gandalf's DC which you admitted he has more Than dumbledore can take.

Now who is winning?
First of all no longer debating whether or not dumbledore can win. Debating the claim Gandalf can tank it. The only real difference between Wizrds in hp was how skilled the caster was. Their powers were run off of pure knowledge and emotion. The reason someone couldnt produce a proper spell is because they sucked. The hp verse in general is simple and easy for a child mind. There is no differential in power just who is more skilled. Avada is simply a spell that ceases the life of living things. If it can be killed by mortal means such swords and etc then there is no doubt he can be killed by the curse. If you wanna say he can tank it you gotta show he has that type of magical durability. You have to show he tanked a stronger spell.

Also balrog didn't display an impressive amount of power when he faced Gandalf. You didn't even know the original level of a mair in the original series. You only find out after the fact in a book that border lines screams outlier.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:17 PM   #107
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

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Well, thats a good question. I'm curious as to the wiping feats. Have they ever fully worked on someone of Gandalf's mental level? From what I saw it was mostly lower-ability wizards and muggles.
someone on Dumbledores level can do pretty dangerous mind rapes to pretty powerful people

the problem is Galadriel and Gandalf both showcased some really disturbing mental resistance feats (one protected an entire country from mind rape by a god who specialized in mind rape and was said to be better at than the satan of his universe and the other directly contested said entities mind rape while fighting over an object that left him at disadvantage )

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Aragorn is a numenorean. He has reaction feats above any human or HP wizard. Again, Dumbledore is not surprising him.
telepathy and prescience was also a standard gift of the line of Elros. and Aragorn showcased it a few times IIRC although very watered down



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The faster one most likely wins!!!
...

buddy you know better than to make a post like that after we already friggen covered and debunked that

come on buddy yer killen me here..

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No I assume the spell.can anything that can be mortally wounded. Which is gandalf and all his forms. He is not a god he is not immune to magic. So you have to show him tanking such an attack.
so we're clear here you're claiming Avada Kadavera can put down a Maiar in its pure true form?

yeah..that's totally not a crazy claim

that being said Dumbledore aint mind raping Gandalf either, Gandalf held off a mind rape from Sauron and contested him in a battle of wills for a few seconds

so..yeah..no

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Also balrog didn't display an impressive amount of power when he faced Gandalf.
.....they fought through hundreds of miles of tunnels after shrugging off a fall from terminal velocity over a mile up,. the Balrog was so powerful he nearly broke Gandalfs physical form and bulldozed his spiritual power so badly the guy ended up dying after the fight

never mind that their spiritual battle at the top of the mountain was said to look like a hurricane that could be seen by people for hundreds of miles

jesus friggen Galadriel's husband saw it..Galadriel felt the entire fight if you take what she said in Lothlorien

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You didn't even know the original level of a mair in the original series. You only find out after the fact in a book that border lines screams outlier.
..Silmarillions canon and if you read the apendices it's not an outlier

Galadriel Pein'd Dul Guldur in the ROTK appendices if memory serves..and that's reinforced by the silmarillion


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I fail to see how this is even a debate anymore.
it should have been Cirdan vs Dumbledore or elendil

and even then..I'd have trouble seeing him win considering Cirdan survived a fight with Sauron that had him micowaving Numenorians with his aura and killing them via said aura

oh and he choke slammed Gil Galad a super elf wielding a spear custom made to fight such entities.. oh and by choke slam I mean he grabbed his face and choke slammed him but the energy and heat from his form actually melted the dudes face off

so yeah Cirdan and Elendil survived the longest in a battle with someone who was BBQing superhumans YYH style with his aura alone

and they'd be the weakest members of what would come to be known as the white council

so you..know..yeah you're absolutely right why is this a debate at all?

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As I said, I`m not in favor of Dumbledore. The winner here is the one with better speed, nothing more!!!
no speed does not matter here
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:41 PM   #108
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

Really I'm not so sure whats so hard to understand: Sauron during the last alliance days was BBqing Superhumans who could pein entire fortresses just by standing around them too long and Gandalf was during his white incarnation strong enough to meet this guy and possibly contest him for dominion over the friggen one ring and everything else

HP fans and some lotr fans seem to think these type of matches are dream matches but really they aren't
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:55 PM   #109
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

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]



so we're clear here you're claiming Avada Kadavera can put down a Maiar in its pure true form?

yeah..that's totally not a crazy claim

that being said Dumbledore aint mind raping Gandalf either, Gandalf held off a mind rape from Sauron and contested him in a battle of wills for a few seconds
You are using individuals held as beasts and gods in their own verse. This is a multiversal fight none of that matters. You actually have to provide the feat of them resisting such magic. The magic has a simple ability ending the life of the living. Show him resisting that type of magic or anything close. That is the only thing I am saying. Mind rape does not equal activating the bodies functions after death. Nor does dumbledore have mindraping capabilities. He has a spell that can wipe clean memories. That is a whole another level of resitence and mind control. Don't get frustrated because I am making you work for your claim.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:00 PM   #110
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

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The magic has a simple ability ending the life of the living. Show him resisting that type of magic or anything close.
It was never even explained how the spell works, so I wouldn't really call it simple. And by "ending the life of the living" I think you really mean "ending the life of living beings far less powerful than Gandalf." Again, saying it can kill anything that's living or capable of dying is just nlf. It can kill beings as powerful as what it's shown and nothing more.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:13 PM   #111
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

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You are using individuals held as beasts and gods in their own verse. This is a multiversal fight none of that matters. You actually have to provide the feat of them resisting such magic. The magic has a simple ability ending the life of the living. Show him resisting that type of magic or anything close. That is the only thing I am saying. Mind rape does not equal activating the bodies functions after death. Nor does dumbledore have mindraping capabilities. He has a spell that can wipe clean memories. That is a whole another level of resitence and mind control. Don't get frustrated because I am making you work for your claim.
what the hell are you on about? I proved it just fine..you're the one stuck bawwing that HP is getting shafted without proof
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:17 PM   #112
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

Don't make me have to make an HP vs Tolkeinverse thread

Cuz I will do it
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:35 PM   #113
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

a blond milf pancakes a facility the size of Hogwartz and does this after casually resisting mind rapes from fallen demi gods and other horrors for over ten thousand years..oh and she holds entropy at bay across an entire damn country while slowing down the passage of time and she openly admits The gray wanderer makes her look like a chump. This is somebody who had the balls to stand up to Feanor for christs sake mister "I fight multiple Balrogs while on fire and laugh in their faces" when his brother who fought Morgoth and needed the weight of a friggen hill applied to his throat to take out flinched and backed off from him

and yet.,Albus stomps him?

Galadriel and her blond hair could curbstomp hogwartz its staff and the order of the phoenix backed up by the DA...what the hell do you think Gandalfs gonna do?
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:46 PM   #114
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

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what the hell are you on about? I proved it just fine..you're the one stuck bawwing that HP is getting shafted without proof
You didn't prove anything just mention feats that have Nothing to do with the claim. The claim of him out right tanking a death spell. Mind rape resistance does not equal tanking a death spell. Physical durability does not equal tanking a deaths spell. I could care less about either character. It is you who is getting butthurt behind the debate. I am just debating the claim of him tanking a death spell. There are characters a few times more powerful than Gandalf subject to such attacks. So yeah I am well within bounds.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:48 PM   #115
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

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You didn't prove anything just mention feats that have Nothing to do with the claim. The claim of him out right tanking a death spell. Mind rape resistance does not equal tanking a death spell. Physical durability does not equal tanking a deaths spell. I could care less about either character. It is you who is getting butthurt behind the debate. I am just debating the claim of him tanking a death spell. There ate characters a fee times more powerful than Gandalf subject to such attacks. So yeah I am week within bounds.

I'm still waiting on proof the spell can get through the Istari shield.
Because otherwise, the death spell is a non-factor since it needs to actually hit the target and appearently has a weakness to protections.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:50 PM   #116
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

I no longer care about that. I already conceded in that. I am debating claim of Gandalf tanking a death spell.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:52 PM   #117
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

He'a a maiar in a skin suit and other immensely powerful magical creatures have resisted it

you have to prove it can affect beings that potent..you haven't
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Old 06-04-2012, 04:02 PM   #118
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

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Originally Posted by The Immortal Watch Dog View Post
He'a a maiar in a skin suit and other immensely powerful magical creatures have resisted it

you have to prove it can affect beings that potent..you haven't
Actually as long as the operate on the physical plane they are subject to the debate of tanking it. Magical creatures arent equal they all don't have the Same abilities. Nor does it matter what type of being he is. This a multiversal fight.
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Old 06-04-2012, 04:36 PM   #119
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer View Post
Actually as long as the operate on the physical plane they are subject to the debate of tanking it. Magical creatures arent equal they all don't have the Same abilities. Nor does it matter what type of being he is. This a multiversal fight.
Plot aside, HP took it and whatnot. If its failed to kill someone, its subject to debate on its ability to kill outright.
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Old 06-04-2012, 04:37 PM   #120
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Default Re: Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

Except that maiar operate between the physical and spiritual realm just like biblical angels but they are often charged(as in entrusted) with having physical bodies which are known as istari in order to assist the mortal realm in time of need
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