Dumbledore Vs. Gandalf

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by The Immortal Watch Dog

sometimes yes, sometimes no

it also helps that Tolkien went kinda batfuck with the powers in the apendices and histories and sil..not to mention the stuff he mentions in his editor notes gets downright OP. Although to be fair I have no idea if the letters have any canon standing - the other stuff does though and its pretty beefed up

As a matter of fact if I am not mistaken you don't even find out how their power works until the hobbit. The first trilogy they were pretty much just using magic.

[TheBlackChidori]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silmarillion

Everyone go read this and get back to me.

[Devils Lawyer]

That is for beings a bit stronger than him. The wikia is a little bit more accurate on his powers.http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Gandalf

[shinigan no sora]

How the did this get past half a page?

Oh yeah of course jace can't take a hint

[Devils Lawyer]

More like your minds are too limited when it comes to these battles. That jace dude doesn't know how to really debate this fight correctly. What should really be pointed out is the fact that Gandalf has more destructive feats. But if you look on the other hand Dumbledore does have more creative uses with magic than him. If you go by stats Gandalf wins hand down. But if you go deeper start thinking about the characters intelligence. Then start thinking about who has the more useful magic in a battle like this. Dumbledore was talented and could pretty much do all of the magic in HP which is a lot and is a fact which shouldn't be ignored. High end destructive feats aren't everything.

Besides that point it is boring just giving a character the win. You gotta work for it.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

More like your minds are too limited when it comes to these battles. That jace dude doesn't know how to really debate this fight correctly. What should really be pointed out is the fact that Gandalf has more destructive feats. But if you look on the other hand Dumbledore does have more creative uses with magic than him. If you go by stats Gandalf wins hand down. But if you go deeper start thinking about the characters intelligence. Then start thinking about who has the more useful magic in a battle like this. Dumbledore was talented and could pretty much do all of the magic in HP which is a lot and is a fact which shouldn't be ignored. High end destructive feats aren't everything.

Besides that point it is boring just giving a character the win. You gotta work for it.

ehh Gandalf was considered wiser than Sauron..I'm pretty sure that qualifies him as dramatically intelligent.

also Dumbledores best tricks..very likely wont work on an Istari for the simple fact that their essentially demi gods wearing a skin suit with a limiter on it

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

As a matter of fact if I am not mistaken you don't even find out how their power works until the hobbit. The first trilogy they were pretty much just using magic.

The hobbit was the first story in the saga, and there are bits and pieces mentioned but you really get it fleshed out in the silmarillion as TBC pointed out

[Sajuuk]

So long as Dumbledore has his Elder Wand and can disarm Gandalf of his Sword, Dumbledore could easily win this. Unless he was crippled in someway.

[shinigan no sora]

Originally Posted by The Kazekage

So long as Dumbledore has his Elder Wand and can disarm Gandalf of his Sword, Dumbledore could easily win this. Unless he was crippled in someway.

Actually because of the way HP magic works even the S class spells and forbidden ones more than likely not even affect gandalf since gandalf is of a higher level especially unrestricted

PS- gandalf doesn't need his sword or staff to kill dumbledore paticuarlly if he is in his maiar form

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by The Immortal Watch Dog

ehh Gandalf was considered wiser than Sauron..I'm pretty sure that qualifies him as dramatically intelligent.

also Dumbledores best tricks..very likely wont work on an Istari for the simple fact that their essentially demi gods wearing a skin suit with a limiter on it

Sauron was a master manipulator and etc. But I am mainly referring to combat. Specifically with magic. Note that Dr Strange is powerful but the beings he face are a few times more powerful than him. But his skill is better.

Second part depends. Spells capable of destroying the mind and instant killing can't be ignored. Also Gandalf can still be killed. As a matter of fact he was and but was just brought back to life.

The hobbit was the first story in the saga, and there are bits and pieces mentioned but you really get it fleshed out in the silmarillion as TBC pointed out

Like I said it's been awhile since I read the series. I know that Gandalf just liked that human form. Which did weaken his power.

[shinigan no sora]

Except DL you have to remember that a lot of offensive S-class spells. Don't work as well if at all against stronger opponets

Also a lot of those creative spells don't really do much of anything but some could be of strategic use but still wouldn't help althat much

Its a close fight if gandalf is restricted to grey wizard low-mid difficulty for white gandalf and its a rapestomp if he is allowed full maiar capabilities

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by The Kazekage

So long as Dumbledore has his Elder Wand and can disarm Gandalf of his Sword, Dumbledore could easily win this. Unless he was crippled in someway.

Lol no you need to read the other posts in this thread especially the oes made by TBC and myself before saying that
about the only person on the white council albus could beat is denethor

[Frost ninja]

I'm trying to think...

Even death spells have a travel time iirc

[shinigan no sora]

^

Not to mention that they can be dodged and can fail pretty easily depending on the power gap which in this case is rather large

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

wellll Cirdan might be someone Dumbledore can beat due to his lack of feats..oh wait no he survived direct combat with Sauron and Balrogs multiple times...yeeahh no

on a side note: TBC,Kreegah..how the f&*k old is Cirdan anyway? I've seen figures that have him between 40k and 225k done up by the fandom

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by shinigan no sora

Except DL you have to remember that a lot of offensive S-class spells. Don't work as well if at all against stronger opponets

Also a lot of those creative spells don't really do much of anything but some could be of strategic use but still wouldn't help althat much

Its a close fight if gandalf is restricted to grey wizard low-mid difficulty for white gandalf and its a rapestomp if he is allowed full maiar capabilities

That may be true but regardless the form Gandalf used in the series was still subject to mortal wounds. Thus proven when he had to be brought back to life. He can't just access his maiar capabilities. Also there is.no spell in the lotr specifically designed for death just destructive shots. Also its a bit much to say he can tank a.killing.spell out right. I have read lotr I don't remember him doing anything close. Albus is a full blown teleporter with an arsenal none of his forms will get a clean win. Even the mair. Not unless he has full blown precog.

[Frost ninja]

Once again, death spells have travel time.

Your claim is pretty irrelevant when potter can juke an avada. Gandalf shouldn't have any trouble. The only other spell that I think is instant is the torture spell, and I don't think that would even phase Gandalf.

[Devils Lawyer]

An avada that he was prepared for. Let's not forget good old plot. Nor was his enemies teleporting like that fight Dumbledore had. You are just too hung up on destructive feats. A lot of you are. So what happens if he uses a cheap spell to distract Gandalf and teleport into a face shot. There wasn't that type of combat going on in lotr. Just spells and power shots.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

That may be true but regardless the form Gandalf used in the series was still subject to mortal wounds. Thus proven when he had to be brought back to life. He can't just access his maiar capabilities. Also there is.no spell in the lotr specifically designed for death just destructive shots. Also its a bit much to say he can tank a.killing.spell out right. I have read lotr I don't remember him doing anything close. Albus is a full blown teleporter with an arsenal none of his forms will get a clean win. Even the mair. Not unless he has full blown precog.

Gandalf wasn't subject to mortal wounds
\
he was subject to being spiritually assaulted and exhausted against a friggen flaming demi god...

why can't he tank a killing spell? very powerful magical beings in the HP universe can..why wouldn't one of the top ten most powerful demi gods in LOTR..be unable to do so

[TRcommander]

Besides it being dodgeable, wouldn't a death spell be subject to feats same as anything else? In other words, what's the most powerful thing it's actually killed, and how does that compare to Gandalf? I'm thinking it doesn't reach that level.

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by The Immortal Watch Dog

Gandalf wasn't subject to mortal wounds
\
he was subject to being spiritually assaulted and exhausted against a friggen flaming demi god...

why can't he tank a killing spell? very powerful magical beings in the HP universe can..why wouldn't one of the top ten most powerful demi gods in LOTR..be unable to do so

Who tanked a killing shot in HP? Only two people tanked that shot. Both was due to some obscure plot nonsense. In truth avada is a childish concept for a spell. But the spell left little room for error when defending against it.