Spoiler Concrete Evidence That Tobi Is In Fact Uchiha Obito

[TobiUchiha111]

Originally Posted by K3nsh!n

It bemuses me to no end how people in favour of Tobi=Obito theories will often say something like "It's fiction! Anything can happen!" in support of their theories!!
True it's fiction and you can expect anything not possible in real-life to happen...
But fiction also follows logic. By logic I don't mean real-life logic but the one that is being used in the fiction...

What's logical is that Obito couldn't possibly have become strong enough to take on someone like Minato in a matter of 1-3 years. Even if you pass off his apparent growth in physique as being caused by drugs- it fails to explain his growth in terms of skill and knowledge which is inconsistent with the logic that Kishi has set up so far in his manga.
Even Sasuke who was considered to be a better genius by Oro could only became so-so strong after training with him for 3 years. Forget Itachi, Sasuke wasn't even a match against Oro, so he waited for the moment when Oro was the weakest. Even after he got his MS he still got pawned by Bee and wouldn't have survived without Jugo's help.
So by what logic are you saying that Obito, who was dull-witted to begin with, become so skilled and strong enough to extract the Kyuubi, control it and take on one of the strongest Kage in history with ease?

Even with all this argument, I still don't deny the possibility that Tobi could be Obito.
And if he is indeed Obito, Kishi better come up with a damn good explanation for all the inconsistencies involved

Also just so you know, the reason I didn't vote on the poll, is well, because it is an inappropriate question.
Since you are not referring to any particular Tobi=Obito theory, a more appropriate question would have been "After reading this, do you at least consider the possibility of Tobi being Obito plausible?"

Wow. really good arguments. Definitely alot better than the usual "Obito is dead!, and He has no motivation!!" nonsense. this is actuallt making me reconsider some things....

Originally Posted by K3nsh!n

^lol...
And I was being conservative in my estimate!!
But either way it's too less of time for someone like Obito to achieve such high level.
Maybe if he had more time...
Wait!! I think I just figured out the ONLY way Kishi could possibly explain the time gap!!

Spoiler:

Anyone who has watched DBZ would know of the Hyberbolic Time Chamber!
1 year inside the chamber is equivalent to 1 day outside!

What if Tobi's pocket dimension is the same?
Since it is an alternate dimension created by Tobi himself he should, speaking theoretically, be able to manipulate the flow of time inside it!!
So he could make the time flow faster inside the pocket dimension!!

Maybe Obito spent years training inside his pocket dimension while only a few months passed in the real world!
The time he spent inside that dimension could easily exceed 10 years since the Tobi we saw fighting Minato was an adult.
10 years is enough time for someone with Sharingan to achieve extraordinary skill, especially if trained under some competent Uchiha like Madara!!
This could be why he appears older than Kakashi!

From what we know Kishi is a big fan of DBZ, so it's actually quite possible!!

*gasp*

O______O Wow, never thought of that......

[Otaku_NayNay]

Okay, what i think is that Tobi is actually Tobi himself impersonating Madara.... What this means is that we dont know who Tobi really is..... I thought of this theory because:

1.) It cant be Madara becuz he wuldve died a long time ago

2.) Obito obviously culdnt come back to life considering that he got squashed by a large number of 2 ton boulders

Note: this is just a thought id like to share, but im not against the theory that madara is obito

[kalmeast]

^ but madara should've lived enough to know Nagato.

Gaara's chakra was completly ripped outta him but here is alive. His death was more sure than Obito's...that boulder reasoning is bogus.

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by Belisarius

No one has anyway of knowing for sure. Until Kishi makes the official reveal, anything is possible, and we can't rule any theory out entirely.

Personally I think it's madara's soul in a zetsu clone.

welcome to the small but inviting club.

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by kalmeast

^ but madara should've lived enough to know Nagato.

Gaara's chakra was completly ripped outta him but here is alive. His death was more sure than Obito's...that boulder reasoning is bogus.

Well, 2 ton boulders in the cartoon. But in the manga there is a jutsu that causes the boulders to drop and another that causing "sfx explosions" referring to the rocks breaking apart as they crush together. a group of ninja executing a jutsu to kill a boy ninja should be a legit way to kill him in my opinion. Well that and Rin having such a strong opinion of Obito's death that Minato showed up, "heard everything" and didn't bother digging up the body...

That and the shared eye of the moon plan, which given the importance should not have been Madara and Tobi's first collaboration, are usually points that Obito=Tobi theorists avoid. And if Madara called Nagato a brat, it seems slim that he would spend his time developing a clutz with a great eye. Best to kill the kid and take his eye.

But, as much as I don't like the Tobi=Obito theory's power jump in 2 years, it is possible.... for shadow clone jutsu. We saw what Naruto did in a matter of ...days? But Naruto is Naruto. we know the reasons why it worked for him specifically.

[K3nsh!n]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

Well, 2 ton boulders in the cartoon. But in the manga there is a jutsu that causes the boulders to drop and another that causing "sfx explosions" referring to the rocks breaking apart as they crush together. a group of ninja executing a jutsu to kill a boy ninja should be a legit way to kill him in my opinion. Well that and Rin having such a strong opinion of Obito's death that Minato showed up, "heard everything" and didn't bother digging up the body...

This point should no longer be used for debate...
Rin didn't "check" Obito's pulse and declare him "dead". Even if she did, Obito could come back to life, like Gaara and countless others did...
Plus, they never mentioned they "found" Obito's body...

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

That and the shared eye of the moon plan, which given the importance should not have been Madara and Tobi's first collaboration, are usually points that Obito=Tobi theorists avoid. And if Madara called Nagato a brat, it seems slim that he would spend his time developing a clutz with a great eye. Best to kill the kid and take his eye.

I am trying to construct a timeline for the events...
Can anyone tell what was Jiraya's and Nagato's age when they met?
I am bad at judging people's age by their appearance...

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

But, as much as I don't like the Tobi=Obito theory's power jump in 2 years, it is possible.... for shadow clone jutsu. We saw what Naruto did in a matter of ...days? But Naruto is Naruto. we know the reasons why it worked for him specifically.

Again, this is no longer a valid point...
If Tobi's dimension has faster flow-rate of time, it is possible for Obito to attain Tob's power level and even age. It's like killing 2 birds with 1 stone

P.S.:
I am not a Tobi=Obito fanatic...
I am just being rational

[paradigm1977]

[QUOTE=K3nsh!n;6030509]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977
Well, 2 ton boulders in the cartoon. But in the manga there is a jutsu that causes the boulders to drop and another that causing "sfx explosions" referring to the rocks breaking apart as they crush together. a group of ninja executing a jutsu to kill a boy ninja should be a legit way to kill him in my opinion. Well that and Rin having such a strong opinion of Obito's death that Minato showed up, "heard everything" and didn't bother digging up the body...


This point should no longer be used for debate...
Rin didn't "check" Obito's pulse and declare him "dead". Even if she did, Obito could come back to life, like Gaara and countless others did...
Plus, they never mentioned they "found" Obito's body...

Shouldn't be used!!!! It's integral to the story. And Gaara was brought back by an elder ninja giving up her life!!

You say they never mentioned they "found" Obito's body. You take the wrong angle on that. It's normal to find it and wouldn't be talked about. If they DON'T find Obito's body, then that is something that should have come up a long time ago, since it's expected they would. And to finally bring up now, that the body was never found, would be cheating the reader with a cheap twist.

[K3nsh!n]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

Shouldn't be used!!!! It's integral to the story. And Gaara was brought back by an elder ninja giving up her life!!

But the point is that Gaara was "dead" and then was "brought back to life".

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

You say they never mentioned they "found" Obito's body. You take the wrong angle on that. It's normal to find it and wouldn't be talked about. If they DON'T find Obito's body, then that is something that should have come up a long time ago, since it's expected they would. And to finally bring up now, that the body was never found, would be cheating the reader with a cheap twist.

Even I agree that someone like Minato wouldn't leave the body of his student lying beneath a pile of rocks, rotting-without a proper burial...
So I too expect him to conduct a thorough search...
But that doesn't mean he definitely found Obito's body. There is nothing to confirm since the story ended soon after Minato arrived.

Concluding that they must have definitely found Obito's body, just because they never mentioned anything about it not being found, is a presumption on your part.
What if that's what Kishi wants you to keep thinking?

So there is a 50-50 percent chance that they may or may not have found the body.


Off-topic:
Why are you using such a roundabout method to quote multiple comments?
Just in case you didn't knew, for mutiple quotes use
If someone has a quoted message in their post, it's not quoted in your message

[paradigm1977]

Yeah it's left behind vs. the parallel character development and whengood guys go bad.

But there were like 5-7 ninja in a time of war. They had to have pulled off the kill. If I'm Madara and was passing through, I would have just taken the eye and left the crushed kid. That's just me. no point in debating that one.

Even in the training in tsukuyomi how can he truly practice chakra control by nature he controls the illusion. It would be like playing chess by yourself.

Can you make controlling chakra that difficult with your willpower, only to use your will power to control it? You are playing both sides.

AND YET, all this evidence against Obito could simply be building to pull off the big twist...just when you gave up on Tobi is Obito.....TOBI IS OBITO!!! I feel like that's what it would be about. Get you to forget about the initial and obvious suspect, rule him out, then bring him back.

I don't think you can create the equivalent of the x-men danger room in your head.

I am 3-1 saying the genjutsu as training would work. Not imposiible, But I need to see some related stuff to convince me.

I think it's more likely Obito's body ( with a little zetsu filler) and eye as a host for either Madara's personality (my fave theory), Madara's brother, or Ricky S' oldest.

And why would he lie to Minato and say that it had been a long time since he was defeated, if it was 1-2 years. That isn't comparable to lying to Itachi or susake to promote your plan or konan to break her spirit (not saying he was lying though). It would be a totally random and useless lie.

[K3nsh!n]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

Yeah it's left behind vs. the parallel character development and whengood guys go bad.

But there were like 5-7 ninja in a time of war. They had to have pulled off the kill. If I'm Madara and was passing through, I would have just taken the eye and left the crushed kid. That's just me. no point in debating that one.

Even in the training in tsukuyomi how can he truly practice chakra control by nature he controls the illusion. It would be like playing chess by yourself.

Can you make controlling chakra that difficult with your willpower, only to use your will power to control it? You are playing both sides.

AND YET, all this evidence against Obito could simply be building to pull off the big twist...just when you gave up on Tobi is Obito.....TOBI IS OBITO!!! I feel like that's what it would be about. Get you to forget about the initial and obvious suspect, rule him out, then bring him back.

I don't think you can create the equivalent of the x-men danger room in your head.

I am 3-1 saying the genjutsu as training would work. Not imposiible, But I need to see some related stuff to convince me.

I think it's more likely Obito's body ( with a little zetsu filler) and eye as a host for either Madara's personality (my fave theory), Madara's brother, or Ricky S' oldest.

And why would he lie to Minato and say that it had been a long time since he was defeated, if it was 1-2 years. That isn't comparable to lying to Itachi or susake to promote your plan or konan to break her spirit (not saying he was lying though). It would be a totally random and useless lie.

It's Kyubi no Yoko's idea of using Tsukuyomi for training...

Mine suggests Tobi's pocket dimension to be an equivalent of DBZ's Hyperbolic Time Chamber...

It's upto Kishi to decide how, why , when-behind Tobi being Obito...
My only reason for debating is people should't reject the possibility that Tobi could be Obito without analyzing it rationally from all angles

[AkatsukiCriminal]

To be honest, I really agree that Obito Uchiha is Tobi. I mean, the evidence is there. The motive is there. There's the connection between the two. It IS most likely that Obito Uchiha, Is, Indeed, Tobi. Plus, Madara Uchiha died. Proved when he was brought BACK to life. 😏😊

[The AL MVP]

Obito is Tobi. When Obito first awakened his Sharingan, he already had two tomoe, showing a unique level of Sharingan capability at first awakening. Add to the fact that Kamui and Tobi's technique are the same, the could mean that is was especially easy for Obito to further improve his sharingan.

Haven't fully thought of this next part thought, but maybe when he told Kakashi and Rin to leave him to die and saying that he wished "he could live longer since they all had just became friends" so maybe that was the Mangekyo Sharingan was awakened in Obito. Upon awakening it, he sent the falling boulders that would hit him to the pocket dimension via Kamui. They could still be visible, such as when Tobi transports part of his body.

[The AL MVP]

Obito always wanted peace, thus his motive for joining Akatsuki and planning to put the world under an Infinite Tsukoyumi, so there would be no more fighting. Also, seeing how his teammates never tried to dig him up, upon getting out, he vowed to make Konoha pay for this.

[paradigm1977]

In my opinion, it's no longer a theory. It's kakko.

Tobi said he was at the battle for the bridge. And he must have been drawn into the story of the Kakashi chronicles. He didn't go there later. And Obito's body must have been taken back after Minato arrived.

Kakko matches every angle perfectly. Much better than Obito.

[The AL MVP]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

In my opinion, it's no longer a theory. It's kakko.

Tobi said he was at the battle for the bridge. And he must have been drawn into the story of the Kakashi chronicles. He didn't go there later. And Obito's body must have been taken back after Minato arrived.

Kakko matches every angle perfectly. Much better than Obito.

Except for the fact that Tobi's Sharingan is always active, which requires Uchiha blood. Seeing how Kakko is not an Uchiha this is impossible. Even Kakashi has to hide his Sharingan to avoid dying from loss of chakra.

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by The AL MVP

Except for the fact that Tobi's Sharingan is always active, which requires Uchiha blood. Seeing how Kakko is not an Uchiha this is impossible. Even Kakashi has to hide his Sharingan to avoid dying from loss of chakra.

Kakashi has had his sharingan uncovered for the whole Tobi fight. And he doesn't have as much chakra as most top level ninja.

[The AL MVP]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

Kakashi has had his sharingan uncovered for the whole Tobi fight. And he doesn't have as much chakra as most top level ninja.

That's impying Kakko is a top level ninja. He was beat by a 13 year old.......

[The AL MVP]

How long was the Third Shinobi World War? The Ame Orphans seemed to age considerably (about 5 years from when Jiraiya found them to when they confronted Hanzo). Maybe Obito "died" near the beginning of the war, trained for 5 years, and then came back as Tobi?

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by The AL MVP

How long was the Third Shinobi World War? The Ame Orphans seemed to age considerably (about 5 years from when Jiraiya found them to when they confronted Hanzo). Maybe Obito "died" near the beginning of the war, trained for 5 years, and then came back as Tobi?

The estimate used on these forums is typically a year and a half. Others calculated that, I believe, with the help of data books.

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by The AL MVP

That's impying Kakko is a top level ninja. He was beat by a 13 year old.......

That fight was off panel. And it was Obito's new speed with eyes that blocked kakko's attack. NOt kakashi.

And kakko got back to Rin and Obito first.