Was George Zimmerman Justifed?

[Jinchiruuki]

Originally Posted by Cult of Personality

If a bit of racial division is what it takes to get justice for a murdered young man, then bring on the divide.

Good troll, or at least I hope you're trolling.

[Devils Lawyer]

The true moral of the story is stop snitching and mind your business. Life is a whole lot simpler that way. Just George Zimmerman I am sure he will tell you the same thing. His life is whether he is innocent or not. Which was my pet peeve about this case.

[Cult of Personality]

If the only way we can get along with our fellow man is to let murderers walk free, then I say screw our fellow man. What is that jerk good for anyway.

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by Wooster

1) There were eight bugarliers in the past few months. THe calls were not that high, as they were over several years.

2)Yes, because of the eight bugarlies.

3) Audio analysis has firmly come down on "f'ing punks" No if, and, not ,or ,buts about it.

4) It was a suggestion. Sorry try again. And pretty lear Martin confronted Zimmerman near his car i.e they confronted each other twice.

5)Shoot a gun while talking See if you stop talking. Dollars to doughnuts you will. It's kinda loud.

6) But they did of his head. See below. :3

ABC just released this:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...CP4CdBfZhpcM2K
That's one bloody head.

Well you are mistaken or have read misleading papers on multiple counts (not that I haven't the media is hardly impartial on this issue).

1) Of the eight burglaries, only 4 of them had witnesses that identified the suspects as black males, the other 4 had no witnesses (if they had been Latino I doubt Zimmerman would've given both parties equal consideration) but I did not know about the burglaries some of my sources were biased.

2) No, that sounds like something off Fox news lol, no one other than someone like Glenn Beck is suggesting he said "punks" the world clearly began with the sound of "co-" with the enhanced audio the tape the debate is now whether or not he said "f*cking coons" or "it's f*cking cold" some of your sources were biased.

3) Saying "We don't need you to do that" can be interpreted as a suggestion but the person who interprets it that way obviously wants to be involved. If I say "I'm going to the store" and my mom says "I don't need you to do that" if I still want to go to the store I should clarify that it's ok with her, I shouldn't just go anyway, this was obviously a dangerous situation if someone in authority makes a suggestion you aren't supposed to go Miami Vice and try to handle it yourself, you listen to the person you asked for help from.

4.) Once again I'm not saying he should've kept talking while shooting I'm saying that I don't know why he'd stop crying for help after the fact even if you're in shock that's a basic instinct, but again I could be nitpicking so that point is up for grabs.

5.) Yeah they just released those photos I hadn't seen them, all I saw was the video. This definitely makes the case more interesting but once again I suggest you do research and read carefully, the photo was taken by a witness NOT by the police, all those things I just mentioned that the police failed to do which signify discrimination all happened. Of course now whether or not Zimmerman was assaulted becomes the problem, however, his violation of the "Stand Your Ground" law is still true and that's a big part of his defense.

[Wooster]

A truly excellent article on the matter by Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...83O18H20120425

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by Wooster

A truly excellent article on the matter by Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...83O18H20120425

Very nice article, it would be a great piece of literature for the defense attorney but it is littered with unnecessary information and appeals to emotion meant to cloud the case, perhaps that is what is needed for this trial considering many people have already convicted this man prematurely but for me a lot of this was esoteric b.s.

"Oh he was a devout Catholic, an altar boy, he wanted to be a Marine, he loved his dad" yeah yeah that's great I'm sure some serial killers have the same background story. And no I'm not saying he's a murderer this was just an example to show why all that detail is irrelevant especially since the same thing can be done for Trayvon and probably better than it can for Zimmerman because it's always easier to romanticize the young victim.

What I did see in his past were some problems with aggression and authority: assaulting a police officer and being in an abusive relationship aren't things one can just shrug off (having pot in your bookbag on the other hand is but that's beside the point).

Now all the background information about the burglaries in the neighborhood are completely understandable. Yes a young black male walking around a neighborhood unaccompanied in the middle of the night is not always some innocent kid and I'm sure there are plenty of African Americans who would suspect him, my family included.

However, reporting him to the police when he hasn't done anything worth reporting is questionable but whatever it couldn't hurt to be safe, sometimes playing to stereotypes can be a necessary precaution I understand. But then he got the warning to not pursue the child. Now I read the part about Burgess peering into other neighbor's windows but we know Trayvon was doing no such thing, he was on the phone with his girlfriend.

Following him was already dangerous and irresponsible but bringing a firearm into that situation is something I know he was warned about in the classes he took to get the weapon. I don't expect him to know that burglars especially teenagers tend to be nonconfrontational and don't usually carry lethal weapons, but it's common sense not to engage someone you are afraid of, that is why he's being called a "vigilante."

This has brought to my attention some interesting information: I now understand the neighborhood's background and the reasons for his calls, I don't mind that he referred to Trayvon as part of the "they," I might be able to accept that he said "it's f*cking cold" instead of "f*cking coons" (although it's still debatable).

What I can't accept is how irresponsibly he handled a life or death situation, and how blatantly discriminatory the police were with Trayvon. Like I said before even if Zimmerman was racist and unjustified (although signs point to it being more complex than that) one crazed lunatic is understandable, it's almost expected. But the systematic prejudice of the police officers (no photos taken, no drug tests for Zimmerman but drug tests for Trayvon, no notification of Trayvon's family for three days). That is inexcusable.

[The Forgotten One]

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

2) No, that sounds like something off Fox news lol, no one other than someone like Glenn Beck is suggesting he said "punks" the world clearly began with the sound of "co-" with the enhanced audio the tape the debate is now whether or not he said "f*cking coons" or "it's f*cking cold" some of your sources were biased.

If you're going to attack Fox News, please get your facts straight. Glenn Beck is no longer affiliated with them and hasn't been for close to a year if not more (can't remember).

Now I can't speak for this stuff about burglaries since this topic is the first I've heard about that, but I believe that the channel that has covered this whole fiasco the fairest is Fox. I had to write a paper on this whole thing recently in school. While ABC, NBC, and even CNN at times have been reporting speculation as fact, letting blatant racists on the air spouting hate about a "white conspiracy" among other things, and convicting Zimmerman before we barely knew anything but what was from the 911 tape and what was publicly released. Fox News, meanwhile, has been reporting the details of the case from things like the 911 tape and police station video, and for the most part have been not having people on the air who are blatantly spouting hate. Fox has been accused of being racist for simply stating the fact that maybe everyone is jumping to conclusions about this case without knowing all the details.

And let's not forget the 911 tape that proved Zimmerman was a racist that turns out to have been edited by NBC (they were the ones who obtained and released it) and the video of Zimmerman in the police station from ABC that proved his story about being attacked was a lie that was then enhanced (also by ABC) that showed several gashes or blood stains on the back of Zimmerman's head. I can post my sources if anyone is interested, I just don't want to hunt for them if this has alreadly been addressed.

Tl;DR This whole case has been twisted by hate-mongers and the far-left media to advance their own political agenda(s) whatever they may be.

[Wooster]

Well, clearly the worst news organization has been NBC with that horrible edit that made Zimmerman seem a racist.

With reports around the country of mobs beating up people with sole reason being Martin, the media has much to attone for. The Reuters piece is a start.

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by The Forgotten One

If you're going to attack Fox News, please get your facts straight. Glenn Beck is no longer affiliated with them and hasn't been for close to a year if not more (can't remember).

Now I can't speak for this stuff about burglaries since this topic is the first I've heard about that, but I believe that the channel that has covered this whole fiasco the fairest is Fox. I had to write a paper on this whole thing recently in school. While ABC, NBC, and even CNN at times have been reporting speculation as fact, letting blatant racists on the air spouting hate about a "white conspiracy" among other things, and convicting Zimmerman before we barely knew anything but what was from the 911 tape and what was publicly released. Fox News, meanwhile, has been reporting the details of the case from things like the 911 tape and police station video, and for the most part have been not having people on the air who are blatantly spouting hate. Fox has been accused of being racist for simply stating the fact that maybe everyone is jumping to conclusions about this case without knowing all the details.

And let's not forget the 911 tape that proved Zimmerman was a racist that turns out to have been edited by NBC (they were the ones who obtained and released it) and the video of Zimmerman in the police station from ABC that proved his story about being attacked was a lie that was then enhanced (also by ABC) that showed several gashes or blood stains on the back of Zimmerman's head. I can post my sources if anyone is interested, I just don't want to hunt for them if this has alreadly been addressed.

Tl;DR This whole case has been twisted by hate-mongers and the far-left media to advance their own political agenda(s) whatever they may be.

Well I liked to point out that I referred to Fox News and Glenn Beck separately although I guess you thought I freely associated them with one another because they are two conservative sources.

As more information surfaces this case becomes a lot more complicated, as I said before I was making NO judgements, I was just pointing things out based on the knowledge I had, I obviously wasn't expecting multiple corrupt media sources.

However, I'm just pointing out that this was a problem of omission, the NBC editor left out important context when replaying the call, he did not alter Zimmerman's words which were what I was citing earlier, although now its unclear what he said.

I'm sorry you resorted to the pathetic TL; DR excuse luckily I didn't do the same for you otherwise you'd be accusing me of being biased or misinformed. If you read the rest of my points you would understand my sentiments on the case and my specific concerns. I'm not convicting Zimmerman just making claims I'm glad there are people here to challenge those claims and keep me informed.

[The Forgotten One]

I assumed that you were referring to Fox and Beck together.

That whole post kind of spiraled out of control and I should have worded it better. The part about Fox and Beck was the only point directed at you specifically and I haven't read this whole thread so any arrogance or deucebaggery you perceive is my bad via my ignorance of what has been said in this thread.

[Wooster]

From ABC News:

A medical report compiled by the family physician of accused Trayvon Martin murderer George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.

Autopsy report shows Martin also had injuries to his knuckles. Here

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by Wooster

From ABC News:

A medical report compiled by the family physician of accused Trayvon Martin murderer George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.

Autopsy report shows Martin also had injuries to his knuckles. Here

Ahhh I see. Thanks for the update. I find it a little funny now that the case isn't so clear cut they stopped using Zimmerman's mugshot as his picture and instead are using a personal photo. Time to let the justice system sort this out, I am really interested in the process the government went through for finding a jury for this case.

[Wooster]

Also, revealed shot was fired from "intermediate" range. Whatever that means.

Edit: I t means this: In intermediate-range wounds, the muzzle is held away from the skin but close enough that it still produces powder tattooing. This type of wound is also characterized by numerous reddish-brown to orange-red lesions around the entrance to the wound.

So it doesn't tell us much more than it wasn't pointblank, which we already knew.

[Wooster]

Autospy report show Martin had THC in his system.

Meaning he smoked marijuana sometime before the confrontation.

Shooting distance is also clarified as between 1" to 18" i.e a distance when two people are grappling.

[Space Cowboy Sasori]

So the young lad was drugged up and fighting this man.

I wonder what the dispute was about.

[Wooster]

I don't Pat. Maybe he got as rambunctious as you do when stoned.

[JLI2infinity]

Although I know some people do suffer from paranoia when they use marijuana, violent crimes are somewhat out of character for someone who's high, most people become relaxed and somewhat lethargic.

[JLI2infinity]

This case has made some interesting developments I was originally just fine with settling for manslaughter and 8-15 years for Zimmerman, but this case is looking a lot like murder and 15+, especially after Zimmerman's interview where he basically stated he followed Trayvon, why go on Hannity and just make a bunch of controversial statements when people were already doubting your character lol, he's beating himself here.

[Wooster]

Hey, the hispanic hater is back.

[JAFL ScrappY-Doo]

Zimmerman says it was God's Plan. Aint that a slap to the face. Not only this guy is stupid to bring religion into it but for people to feel sympathetic towards this actions is beyond me.