Suigetsu vs. Itachi

[megabbaut]

Originally Posted by Ultimate combatant

I think what he is trying to say is that liquifying cannot be done, if Suigetsu is in a Genjutsu, considering that liquifying is not automatic, but rather happens when Suigetsu wants it. Thus, cutting his head of should be no problem!!!

But Sasuke was still able to use his Sharingan in Itachi's genjutsu, and Naruto was still able to use his Rasengan in Itachi's genjutsu. What difference is there that stops Suigetsu from doing his hydrification? God I said that so many times now...

[Uchiha Sora]

Because Itachi can show him whatever he wants. He can use hydrification, but it won't matter. It's itachis genjutsu. That clone naruto destroyed could've just remained stationary and rasengan could've just went through him or something. Again, It's itachis genjutsu.
God I've said that so many times too

Unless you mean hydrification in real life. In which case out comes the totsuka or tsukuyomi after he releases suigetsu from genjutsu.

Suigetsu's eyes are open in reality while he's under the magic finger. When Itachi releases the genjutsu, Itachi is standing right in front of him with his mangekyo on, casting tsukuyomi. And then suigetsu is incapacitated

[megabbaut]

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Sora

Because Itachi can show him whatever he wants. He can use hydrification, but it won't matter. It's itachis genjutsu. That clone naruto destroyed could've just remained stationary and rasengan could've just went through him or something. Again, It's itachis genjutsu.
God I've said that so many times too

Unless you mean hydrification in real life. In which case out comes the totsuka or tsukuyomi after he releases suigetsu from genjutsu.

Suigetsu's eyes are open in reality while he's under the magic finger. When Itachi releases the genjutsu, Itachi is standing right in front of him with his mangekyo on, casting tsukuyomi. And then suigetsu is incapacitated

But it's only finger genjutsu. And all that does is bring out crow shurikens which have no effect on Suigetsu. It's not like the genjutsus he used on Sasuke where Sasuke kept looking at Itachi's eyes because he was so arrogant that he thought genjutsu wouldn't work on him. That's just one of the many Sharingan genjutsu casted by looking at Itachi's eyes. It's different with the "magic finger"

Not at all. Whatever he's doing in the genjutsu, he's doing in real life. This is proven when Sakura said Naruto used Rasengan on absolutely nothing (Itachi's clone) Naruto was using Rasengan in the outside world as well, not just in the genjutsu. And Suigetsu is still not looking at his eyes, remember?

[Uchiha Sora]

The genjutsu isn't limited to the shuriken.. He said to cast genjutsu in general he just needs a finger. Obviously he can show or do whatever the hell he wants... otherwise Suigetsu would also be seeing Sasuke choke him then Gaara appearing on his hand and stuff too. Tsukuyomi wasnt the same either. For Sasuke, he relived his clan's death, and later in the TS he saw Itachi gouging his eyes out. And for Kakashi, he was stabbed for 72 hours. Itachi can show pretty much whatever he wants to the target.

For the last time lol, the shuriken WILL HURT SUIGETSU in the genjutsu. genjutsu screws with the five senses, he will still feel pain and everything that goes with it.

And while Suigetsu is feeling that pain, Itachi tries to attack him, realizes he's water, then seals him. OR he releases the genjutsu, and waits for suigetsu to look up and Itachi is standing right there with the mangekyo(tsukuyomi). But the former would be a better choice for him.

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by megabbaut

Amaterasu has terrible feats. It couldn't kill Karin, it took hours to burn a forest and had no effect on A's armor. I can't even think of one good feat for Amaterasu. Since Suigetsu has hydrification it will have no effect on him.

He's not outmatched at all, but it could end in a stalement since Itachi can't hurt Suigetsu with what he has. Also, when was Kabuto caught in Itachi's genjutsu? It has no effect on him with his eyes closed and hood on and eeverything.

What are you talking about? The only reason Karin didn't die a slow painful death was because Sasuke stopped it for her, that is Amaterasu's only weakness, it burns slowly. It takes hours for any fire to burn a forest. It was the reason A had to lost his hand what are you talking about it had no effect and you can't think of feats...

-Burned through the trap Jiraiya says no one ever escaped from before.
-Made Sasuke use more than half his chakra to escape it
-Forced Bee to sacrifice a Hachibi tentacle in order to escape
-Would've killed Karin if Sasuke didn't figure out how to control it
-Forced A, a KAGE, to amputate his left hand
-Just completely stopped Kabuto in his tracks last chapter and nullified his justsu.
-So powerful it burned through a fire technique
-It killed the dog that gave Jiraiya, Gamabunta, and Naruto so much trouble

You seem to be under the impression that water can put out Amaterasu, it can't it burns through EVERYTHING it is not normal fire bound by physical laws just like the Sword of Totsuka, Amaterasu is an ethereal weapon it's really not even correct to call it fire but because it burns things and takes a similar form people do out of habit.

Read the OP next time. Suigetsu has full knowledge, and Itachi has none. It's pretty easy to counter genjutsu especially when you have knowledge. All you have to do is not look into his eyes. Not that hard. And close range combat? Suigetsu kept up with Darui in that apartment, with a broken sword and everything. Itachi didn't parry Bee's attacks at all. He just ran away from him. Suigetsu could do that.

Really now? Is that why two jonin just as skilled (I'd say even more skilled) as Suigetsu said that it's something only a taijutsu master like Gai can do? Gai tried that same logic when he was about to fight Itachi, he told Asuma and Kurenai..."All you have to do is look at his feat and predict his movements." And they basically said that is an extremely challenging task. Even Kakashi who is also superior to Suigetsu had to be extremely alert when he fought Itachi and was too scared to go into close combat by himself so he used a Kage Bunshin (a technique Suigetsu doesn't have). And when they were in close combat Itachi clearly grabbed Kakashi and brought him into eye contact.

You really need to read the manga more carefully, if Itachi is just running away why would there be little marks in Bee's spin that signify a swordfight. And the fact that he can avoid it at all or knows to avoid it is more impressive than Sasuke who charged in and got stabbed multiple times.

Are you really that blinded by your love of a character that you would say he's not outmatched. Let's just see here

Speed- Itachi (by a huge margin)
Intelligence- Itachi (by a huge margin)
Taijutsu- Itachi
Genjutsu-Itachi
Ninjutsu- Itachi (by a huge margin)
Stamina- Suigetsu (by a varying margin depending on Itachi's illness)
Strength-Suigetsu

Your whole argument is this hope that Suigetsu, having never fought Itachi before and showing no proficiency for genjutsu or mastery of taijutsu, can avoid one of Itachi's many genjutsu while people with more experience or intelligence like Danzo, Bee, Kakashi, and Kabuto, have fallen for them before even with complete knowledge of how they are activated. Danzo had sharingan and access to the ultimate sharingan genjutsu he had complete knowledge of how sharingan genjutsu work and he fell for one. Bee was warned by Naruto about Itachi's genjutsu and even he fell for it. Kakashi a sharingan, taijutsu, and genjutsu genius almost fell for it with intel. Kabuto with his vast knowledge of all forms of shinobi combat just fell for one last chapter. I can't help but think this is fanboyism.

[megabbaut]

What are you talking about? The only reason Karin didn't die a slow painful death was because Sasuke stopped it for her, that is Amaterasu's only weakness, it burns slowly. It takes hours for any fire to burn a forest. It was the reason A had to lost his hand what are you talking about it had no effect and you can't think of feats...

-Burned through the trap Jiraiya says no one ever escaped from before.
-Made Sasuke use more than half his chakra to escape it
-Forced Bee to sacrifice a Hachibi tentacle in order to escape
-Would've killed Karin if Sasuke didn't figure out how to control it
-Forced A, a KAGE, to amputate his left hand
-Just completely stopped Kabuto in his tracks last chapter and nullified his justsu.
-So powerful it burned through a fire technique
-It killed the dog that gave Jiraiya, Gamabunta, and Naruto so much trouble

You seem to be under the impression that water can put out Amaterasu, it can't it burns through EVERYTHING it is not normal fire bound by physical laws just like the Sword of Totsuka, Amaterasu is an ethereal weapon it's really not even correct to call it fire but because it burns things and takes a similar form people do out of habit.

A had to lose his hand because it was going to spread...and it doesn't really take hours for a normal fire to burn a forest.

As for your feats:

1) I can agree with this
2) Half of his chakra? He just needed to use a substitution to get out of it. Most of his chakra was used moreof in preparation of Kirin.
3) Hachibi was a bigger target so that was a disadvantage
4) It still took forever to spread like you pointed out
5) Already talked about this
6) I can agree with this
7) Well it's hotter than any other fire technique, soo...
8) It gave them trouble because they split up, which they didn't do against Ammy

You're also ignoring it's many downsides. It struggled to burn through Samurai armor while A dodged the Amaterasu. It struggled to burn through karin's clothes. It struggled to burn through Nagato's clothes. It struggled to do anything to Gaara's sand as well. Meanwhile, the literal opposite, arch enemy of fire is water. This won't be a problem for Suigetsu and his Suitons.

Really now? Is that why two jonin just as skilled (I'd say even more skilled) as Suigetsu said that it's something only a taijutsu master like Gai can do? Gai tried that same logic when he was about to fight Itachi, he told Asuma and Kurenai..."All you have to do is look at his feat and predict his movements." And they basically said that is an extremely challenging task. Even Kakashi who is also superior to Suigetsu had to be extremely alert when he fought Itachi and was too scared to go into close combat by himself so he used a Kage Bunshin (a technique Suigetsu doesn't have). And when they were in close combat Itachi clearly grabbed Kakashi and brought him into eye contact.

You really need to read the manga more carefully, if Itachi is just running away why would there be little marks in Bee's spin that signify a swordfight. And the fact that he can avoid it at all or knows to avoid it is more impressive than Sasuke who charged in and got stabbed multiple times.

Are you really that blinded by your love of a character that you would say he's not outmatched. Let's just see here

Speed- Itachi (by a huge margin)
Intelligence- Itachi (by a huge margin)
Taijutsu- Itachi
Genjutsu-Itachi
Ninjutsu- Itachi (by a huge margin)
Stamina- Suigetsu (by a varying margin depending on Itachi's illness)
Strength-Suigetsu

Your whole argument is this hope that Suigetsu, having never fought Itachi before and showing no proficiency for genjutsu or mastery of taijutsu, can avoid one of Itachi's many genjutsu while people with more experience or intelligence like Danzo, Bee, Kakashi, and Kabuto, have fallen for them before even with complete knowledge of how they are activated. Danzo had sharingan and access to the ultimate sharingan genjutsu he had complete knowledge of how sharingan genjutsu work and he fell for one. Bee was warned by Naruto about Itachi's genjutsu and even he fell for it. Kakashi a sharingan, taijutsu, and genjutsu genius almost fell for it with intel. Kabuto with his vast knowledge of all forms of shinobi combat just fell for one last chapter. I can't help but think this is fanboyism.

Actually, they said only Guy could master the art of looking at the opponent's feet to anticipate what they are doing. Not looking at someone's eyes is something that anyone can do really. And unlike Suigetsu, they don't have hydrification which ruins any chance of Itachi being able to hurt Suigetsu with anything he's got. The only genjutsu that will work on him is finger genjutsu which just casts crow shurikens on Suigetsu, which don't do any damage to him because of, again, his hydrification.

Little marks? What are you talking about? And Sasuke actually had a sword to fight his style with, which did him no good and almost got him killed. But even him could've done the "run away" tactic on Bee's Seven Swords Dance.

Love of a character? Since when did I ever say that I admire Suigetsu in any way? There's a difference between debating on one side of a character, and being a fan of that character.

Speed) Really? Itachi outmatches him in SPEED? -_____- dude, Suigetsu has intercept attacks from Bee and the Raikage, as well as keep up with Darui until he started using Raiton. (which Itachi doesn't use) And Bee and the Raikage are two of the top speedsters in the manga. I'm no Suigetsu fan, but saying that isn't impressive is downright downplaying Suigetsu.

Intelligence) Means nothing especially since he has no knowledge while Suigetsu does.

Taijutsu) Suigetsu, since he's the worst matchup for any taijutsu user, (especially Itachi who uses regular taijutsu) simply due to his hydrification.

Genjutsu) I can agree with this

Ninjutsu) Idk about this

Stamina) I can agree with this

Strength) I can agree with this

Him never fighting Itachi is invalid being that he has complete knowledge of Itachi as granted by the OP. His Sharingan genjutsu is easily avoided by not looking at his eyes, and finger genjutsu does absolutely nothing to Suigetsu due to his hydrification. Most of the people you listed didn't even attempt to avoid eye contact with him, or in Kakashi's case, was foolish enough to pit his Sharingan against his and be the only one actually looking at his eyes. Everything else has already been countered.

[TRcommander]

Originally Posted by megabbaut

Speed) Really? Itachi outmatches him in SPEED? -_____- dude, Suigetsu has intercept attacks from Bee and the Raikage, as well as keep up with Darui until he started using Raiton. (which Itachi doesn't use) And Bee and the Raikage are two of the top speedsters in the manga. I'm no Suigetsu fan, but saying that isn't impressive is downright downplaying Suigetsu.

Intelligence) Means nothing especially since he has no knowledge while Suigetsu does.

Taijutsu) Suigetsu, since he's the worst matchup for any taijutsu user, (especially Itachi who uses regular taijutsu) simply due to his hydrification.

Genjutsu) I can agree with this

Ninjutsu) Idk about this

Stamina) I can agree with this

Strength) I can agree with this

Guys.........I think we found the problem.

Speed- Itachi (by a huge margin)
Intelligence- Itachi (by a huge margin)
Taijutsu- Itachi
Genjutsu-Itachi
Ninjutsu- Itachi (by a huge margin)
Stamina- Suigetsu (by a varying margin depending on Itachi's illness)
Strength-Suigetsu

Basically this, but I'll point out that without a source of water, Suigetsu has really low stamina too, so the difference between him and Itachi there isn't too different depending on the situation. Pure physical strength is basically the only clear advantage Suigetsu has over Itachi, and that's nullified by speed or susanoo depending on the situation.

[Uchiha Sora]

Speed) Really? Itachi outmatches him in SPEED? -_____- dude, Suigetsu has intercept attacks from Bee and the Raikage, as well as keep up with Darui until he started using Raiton. And Bee and the Raikage are two of the top speedsters in the manga.

for the 6th time.. Neither of those attacks were all that fast... Yes they are top speedsters... but they weren't using fast attacks... and Bee was in base... He wasn't using the seven swords dance which confused Sasuke either... he just jumped... not good feats... unLike ITachi who kept up with RM Naruto and made Bee look like a joke.. Who made Suigetsu look like a joke without even putting in effort.

And Darui is nowhere near RM Naruto soo...

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by megabbaut

A had to lose his hand because it was going to spread...and it doesn't really take hours for a normal fire to burn a forest.

As for your feats:

1) I can agree with this
2) Half of his chakra? He just needed to use a substitution to get out of it. Most of his chakra was used moreof in preparation of Kirin.
3) Hachibi was a bigger target so that was a disadvantage
4) It still took forever to spread like you pointed out
5) Already talked about this
6) I can agree with this
7) Well it's hotter than any other fire technique, soo...
8) It gave them trouble because they split up, which they didn't do against Ammy

You're also ignoring it's many downsides. It struggled to burn through Samurai armor while A dodged the Amaterasu. It struggled to burn through karin's clothes. It struggled to burn through Nagato's clothes. It struggled to do anything to Gaara's sand as well. Meanwhile, the literal opposite, arch enemy of fire is water. This won't be a problem for Suigetsu and his Suitons.

2) It was specifically stated that Sasuke had to use Oro's variation of substitution which is a special form that can be used in a pinch but requires half of your chakra.

3) Heat has nothing to do with burning out another fire, that defies the laws of physics, take a blue flame at a couple thousand degrees and introduce it to an orange flame at a lower temperature, the fires merge, one doesn't completely devour the other like Amaterasu does, that's because Amaterasu doesn't abide by physical laws, like I said it is an ethereal weapon, they've already implied plenty of times that it comes from the spirit realm, water techniques have no effect on it, it "burns" through everything at a steady rate.

It didn't "struggle" a struggle implies a doubt that it was going to work or a visible effort, I already said it was a slow burn that's the only weakness, it wasn't having problems burning through the shirt it just takes a bit of time especially since it was just the side effect of Bee's tentacle hitting her not a concentrated attack. It had already burned through Nagato's skin and into his skeleton, you could see his ribcage and muscles by the time he used ST, he just regenerated because he's an Edo.

Even even though I just explained why you applying actual rules that apply to fire doesn't make sense, actually it does take quite some time for a fire to burn through a forest. I'm assuming you haven't watched any news footage of it happening, haven't read a biology / wildlife / camping text on deforestation and forest fires, and don't live near anywhere where this is a common occurence. It's not like simply starting a camp fire, actual healthy trees store water in their leaves, it takes time for dirt to catch fire, there is also the problem of underbrush dampening the effects of a flame, and it's especially hard to light hydrated wood of fire, next time you can get a green leaf or wet blade of grass and see how long it takes for it to ignite.

Also, you do realize that Suigetsu's water is all a part of him right, he can't just cut off an arm because it's water, there's a limited amount of water he can turn into unless other water is around him, that means that if his leg catches on fire he can't just turn it into water and detach it, that would mean giving up that leg.

Actually, they said only Guy could master the art of looking at the opponent's feet to anticipate what they are doing. Not looking at someone's eyes is something that anyone can do really. And unlike Suigetsu, they don't have hydrification which ruins any chance of Itachi being able to hurt Suigetsu with anything he's got. The only genjutsu that will work on him is finger genjutsu which just casts crow shurikens on Suigetsu, which don't do any damage to him because of, again, his hydrification.

Little marks? What are you talking about? And Sasuke actually had a sword to fight his style with, which did him no good and almost got him killed. But even him could've done the "run away" tactic on Bee's Seven Swords Dance.

Love of a character? Since when did I ever say that I admire Suigetsu in any way? There's a difference between debating on one side of a character, and being a fan of that character.

Speed) Really? Itachi outmatches him in SPEED? -_____- dude, Suigetsu has intercept attacks from Bee and the Raikage, as well as keep up with Darui until he started using Raiton. (which Itachi doesn't use) And Bee and the Raikage are two of the top speedsters in the manga. I'm no Suigetsu fan, but saying that isn't impressive is downright downplaying Suigetsu.

Intelligence) Means nothing especially since he has no knowledge while Suigetsu does.

Taijutsu) Suigetsu, since he's the worst matchup for any taijutsu user, (especially Itachi who uses regular taijutsu) simply due to his hydrification.

Genjutsu) I can agree with this

Ninjutsu) Idk about this

Stamina) I can agree with this

Strength) I can agree with this

Him never fighting Itachi is invalid being that he has complete knowledge of Itachi as granted by the OP. His Sharingan genjutsu is easily avoided by not looking at his eyes, and finger genjutsu does absolutely nothing to Suigetsu due to his hydrification. Most of the people you listed didn't even attempt to avoid eye contact with him, or in Kakashi's case, was foolish enough to pit his Sharingan against his and be the only one actually looking at his eyes. Everything else has already been countered.

Ok I can't debate panels with you because viz doesn't allow links, and I don't want to rat out good sites so I will leave some of your points alone.

Itachi is so fast Sasuke and Kakashi could barely track his movements with their sharingan. Kurenai didn't even have time to finish dodging before he used body flicker and appeared behind her. Intercepting attacks isn't a particularly amazing feat yes it shows great speed but the attacker isn't really paying attention and the attacks aren't particularly fast because they are meant to be finishing blows for a downed or disoriented opponent. It'd be like if in a fight I broke your legs and was about to raise a sledgehammer to finish you off and while I was winding up someone charged in and stopped me.

Intelligence is a huge factor because while Suigetsu is trying to figure out a way to hurt Itachi, Itachi can figure out Suigetsu's techniques and develop ways to get him under genjutsu, for example he can use fire techniques and Kage Bunshin to corner Suigetsu. Before you says that Suigetsu just uses hydrification understand like I said before Suigetsu can't just get splattered all of the place, hydrification =/= regeneration, it's a form of turning intangible but it still has plenty of weaknesses. Suigetsu can't just get roasted and turn into steam because he needs a certain amount of water to reform his body (which is why he always stays hydrated) he can't just entirely reform from a single drop.

[megabbaut]

Originally Posted by TRcommander

Guys.........I think we found the problem.



Basically this, but I'll point out that without a source of water, Suigetsu has really low stamina too, so the difference between him and Itachi there isn't too different depending on the situation. Pure physical strength is basically the only clear advantage Suigetsu has over Itachi, and that's nullified by speed or susanoo depending on the situation.

There is a source of water in the area. The location is Turtle Island (where Guys and Kisame fought) which has plenty of water for Suigetsu, and Itachi loses stamina whenever he uses his MS.

2) It was specifically stated that Sasuke had to use Oro's variation of substitution which is a special form that can be used in a pinch but requires half of your chakra.

It's also stated that he used most of his chakra in using his CS2 Great Dragon Flames.

3) Heat has nothing to do with burning out another fire, that defies the laws of physics, take a blue flame at a couple thousand degrees and introduce it to an orange flame at a lower temperature, the fires merge, one doesn't completely devour the other like Amaterasu does, that's because Amaterasu doesn't abide by physical laws, like I said it is an ethereal weapon, they've already implied plenty of times that it comes from the spirit realm, water techniques have no effect on it, it "burns" through everything at a steady rate.

It didn't "struggle" a struggle implies a doubt that it was going to work or a visible effort, I already said it was a slow burn that's the only weakness, it wasn't having problems burning through the shirt it just takes a bit of time especially since it was just the side effect of Bee's tentacle hitting her not a concentrated attack. It had already burned through Nagato's skin and into his skeleton, you could see his ribcage and muscles by the time he used ST, he just regenerated because he's an Edo.

However, in this case it's going up against water. Even if it's unextinguished by any means, it has to burn the entire lake to hurt Suigetsu. Amaterasu has been shown burning horrible ineffectively against armor, regular clothing and sand before, and since it burns very slowly like you pointed out, I highly doubt it will be effective at all in water, especially when it is a lake and Suigetsu is entirely omnipresent within the bounds of his water.

Even even though I just explained why you applying actual rules that apply to fire doesn't make sense, actually it does take quite some time for a fire to burn through a forest. I'm assuming you haven't watched any news footage of it happening, haven't read a biology / wildlife / camping text on deforestation and forest fires, and don't live near anywhere where this is a common occurence. It's not like simply starting a camp fire, actual healthy trees store water in their leaves, it takes time for dirt to catch fire, there is also the problem of underbrush dampening the effects of a flame, and it's especially hard to light hydrated wood of fire, next time you can get a green leaf or wet blade of grass and see how long it takes for it to ignite.

I can agree with this

Also, you do realize that Suigetsu's water is all a part of him right, he can't just cut off an arm because it's water, there's a limited amount of water he can turn into unless other water is around him, that means that if his leg catches on fire he can't just turn it into water and detach it, that would mean giving up that leg.

Actually Suigetsu's water will be part of a lake, so Itachi will have a hard time finding him. Even if Suigetsu gets caught in water and hr liquifies, he could shrug it off since he's water and everything.

Itachi is so fast Sasuke and Kakashi could barely track his movements with their sharingan. Kurenai didn't even have time to finish dodging before he used body flicker and appeared behind her. Intercepting attacks isn't a particularly amazing feat yes it shows great speed but the attacker isn't really paying attention and the attacks aren't particularly fast because they are meant to be finishing blows for a downed or disoriented opponent. It'd be like if in a fight I broke your legs and was about to raise a sledgehammer to finish you off and while I was winding up someone charged in and stopped me.

The only thing they couldn't track were his hand signs, with the exception of Tsukuyomi's hand sign. Kurenai isn't really that fast. And the difference from that is they were actually rushing to do it, and in the case of the Raikage who no one saw until Sasuke dispelled Cee's genjutsu, he just started slamming him arm down really fast until Suigetsu appeared right in front of him. The fact is, Suigetsu couldn't have started running until Sasuke dispelled Cee's genjutsu, which was too late considering A was already in the middle of attacking.

Intelligence is a huge factor because while Suigetsu is trying to figure out a way to hurt Itachi, Itachi can figure out Suigetsu's techniques and develop ways to get him under genjutsu, for example he can use fire techniques and Kage Bunshin to corner Suigetsu. Before you says that Suigetsu just uses hydrification understand like I said before Suigetsu can't just get splattered all of the place, hydrification =/= regeneration, it's a form of turning intangible but it still has plenty of weaknesses. Suigetsu can't just get roasted and turn into steam because he needs a certain amount of water to reform his body (which is why he always stays hydrated) he can't just entirely reform from a single drop.

He already knows a way to hurt Itachi, he has complete knowledge remember? Fire techniques would do little good along with Kage Bunshin since Suigetsu would already be in a lake by that time. That weakness is gone being that there is a lake nearby where Suigetsu could go to.

[Uchiha Sora]

So did I win or what?

[megabbaut]

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Sora

So did I win or what?

You said exactly the same thing the other guys did

[Kioroshi.]

I can't believe people are debating Suigetsu VS Itachi...

Suigetsu I would say he is mid tier fighter.Itachi is Top class fighter S rank "criminal"

I don't see how Suigetsu can win here.

[Uchiha Sora]

Originally Posted by Kioroshi.

I don't see how Suigetsu can win here.

He can't. But this isn't really a normal hand to hand fight

You said exactly the same thing the other guys did

Not in this post D:

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Sora

The genjutsu isn't limited to the shuriken.. He said to cast genjutsu in general he just needs a finger. Obviously he can show or do whatever the hell he wants... otherwise Suigetsu would also be seeing Sasuke choke him then Gaara appearing on his hand and stuff too. Tsukuyomi wasnt the same either. For Sasuke, he relived his clan's death, and later in the TS he saw Itachi gouging his eyes out. And for Kakashi, he was stabbed for 72 hours. Itachi can show pretty much whatever he wants to the target.

For the last time lol, the shuriken WILL HURT SUIGETSU in the genjutsu. genjutsu screws with the five senses, he will still feel pain and everything that goes with it.

And while Suigetsu is feeling that pain, Itachi tries to attack him, realizes he's water, then seals him. OR he releases the genjutsu, and waits for suigetsu to look up and Itachi is standing right there with the mangekyo(tsukuyomi). But the former would be a better choice for him.

[megabbaut]

^I countered that already...must've been deleted. FUUUU-

[TRcommander]

Originally Posted by megabbaut

However, in this case it's going up against water. Even if it's unextinguished by any means, it has to burn the entire lake to hurt Suigetsu. Amaterasu has been shown burning horrible ineffectively against armor, regular clothing and sand before, and since it burns very slowly like you pointed out, I highly doubt it will be effective at all in water, especially when it is a lake and Suigetsu is entirely omnipresent within the bounds of his water.

Since when is Suigetsu omnipresent in water? He can't even control an entire lakes worth of water, something you seem to keep ignoring. The amount of water he used against B was the most he's ever used, and that was nowhere near an entire lake.

Actually Suigetsu's water will be part of a lake, so Itachi will have a hard time finding him. Even if Suigetsu gets caught in water and hr liquifies, he could shrug it off since he's water and everything.

Again, you keep ignoring that part where Suigetsu has chakra, and Itachi can see that chakra. Itachi would know exactly where he is at all times.

The only thing they couldn't track were his hand signs, with the exception of Tsukuyomi's hand sign. Kurenai isn't really that fast. And the difference from that is they were actually rushing to do it, and in the case of the Raikage who no one saw until Sasuke dispelled Cee's genjutsu, he just started slamming him arm down really fast until Suigetsu appeared right in front of him. The fact is, Suigetsu couldn't have started running until Sasuke dispelled Cee's genjutsu, which was too late considering A was already in the middle of attacking.

You're still trying to use unquantifiable speeds as proof. On the other hand, we've shown you his speed feats when they were quantifiable, and they were terrible compared to what Itachi's shown.

He already knows a way to hurt Itachi, he has complete knowledge remember? Fire techniques would do little good along with Kage Bunshin since Suigetsu would already be in a lake by that time. That weakness is gone being that there is a lake nearby where Suigetsu could go to.

That's really more work than Itachi needs to put in here anyways. Point finger. GG.

[megabbaut]

Originally Posted by TRcommander

Since when is Suigetsu omnipresent in water? He can't even control an entire lakes worth of water, something you seem to keep ignoring. The amount of water he used against B was the most he's ever used, and that was nowhere near an entire lake.



Again, you keep ignoring that part where Suigetsu has chakra, and Itachi can see that chakra. Itachi would know exactly where he is at all times.



You're still trying to use unquantifiable speeds as proof. On the other hand, we've shown you his speed feats when they were quantifiable, and they were terrible compared to what Itachi's shown.



That's really more work than Itachi needs to put in here anyways. Point finger. GG.

He's omnipresent, because he's merged with the lake. And since Itachi doesn't know where in the lake Suigetsu is, he has to try and somehow attack the entire lake or take some wild guesses.


I'm not ignoring it, because it has already been countered. Something like that wasn't an option at all when Itachi couldn't tell where Kabuto was in his water form.


No you didn't. Quote or it didn't happen. And they are nowhere near unquantifiable. If anything what Itachi has shown is unquantifiable, and I have already explained why in previous posts.


Pointing finger does nothing, which you keep ignoring.

[Uchiha Sora]

Originally Posted by megabbaut

^I countered that already...must've been deleted. FUUUU-

Sooo...


And Suigetsu has always been 100% visible every time hhe liquifies or merged with the water in the lake for the demon fish


Magic Finger->Attack in real life->Totsuka Seal

What is so difficult about that?

[radwan rushdi]

thank you for the good post
but I hate Itachi

[megabbaut]

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Sora

Sooo...


And Suigetsu has always been 100% visible every time hhe liquifies or merged with the water in the lake for the demon fish


Magic Finger->Attack in real life->Totsuka Seal

What is so difficult about that?

Hydrification, that's what's so difficult about it. That's what renders Totsuka Sword useless.