Discord vs Arceus

[Jmalenko]

O.o beg pardon?

[NBT]

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

Nope D:<

MLPverse for top tier.
Plus I dont see how this is still going since theres not really any way to incap or kill Discord meanwhile all he has to do is turn the plates into paper plates, or Arceus into a pie.

Are we really gonna go through this again?

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

As arceus stops time, Discord freezes, then just moves with a laugh.
If it was as simple as stopping time, why wouldn't the princess whom has time spells in her library have done so?

Also you can't kill it. Chaos is chaos, and chaos is discord.

Excep it won't be able to because it'll be frozen.Arceus then proceeds to make Giratina who ships whatsitssh*t to the reverse World.
Assuming you mean in the movie,PIS.
Your point?Even if it really is immortal,it just gets counted out.

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

Didn't you hear? Discord is omni now.
:L
MLPverse just got a TOAA.

No.

[Frost ninja]

Well to put it shortly, being an embodyment of chaos means so long as chaos exists, so will he. Thus, you'd have to eliminate all forms of chaos in existance in order to destroy him. Including ones self.

Above that, the ability to control chaos and entropy is an amazing tool, especially when mixed with his toon force capabilities. His only downside is he can't erase all order. He can, however and using the law of entropy, compress it so it maintains the same amount but in a smaller size.

Two people who made a universe could only delay him, but he hasn't been killed or destroyed, even though one maintains control of the sun and the other of, what one could consider, darkness. Or in short, the forces of light and dark weren't able to take him down but only seal him. Even then, just arguments at his statues base freed him. Also is the elements of harmony, which I can only assume disperses entropy away from its target, which turned him to stone. I'd guess that because it would explain how he revived himself when chaos reentered the area.

He can manipulate just about any factor in the environment and it spans as far as chaos itself goes. Meaning if its matter, he can manipulate it. If it moves, breathes, does anything at all he can manipulate it. Even the formation of galaxies or universes can be trumped since he can use the entropy to force the "order" factor of them back into the center.

Even omnipotents technically can't will him away as the action of doing so brings him back, as entropy would happen to fill the void he left. I can only assume he is omnipotent.

[NBT]

The concept of chaos and toonforce is erased.The end.

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by NBT

Are we really gonna go through this again?

Excep it won't be able to because it'll be frozen.

Because it makes sense that he could be stopped by time, even though the sun goddess has plenty of time influence at her disposal. Can you prove the freezing of time can stop chaos?

Arceus then proceeds to make Giratina who ships whatsitssh*t to the reverse World.

He is a pie long before he can freeze time, but even so time stopping won't stop him any more than it stops Giratina, Dialga, or Palkia. Movement of any kind, be it giratina coming into play, the roar itself...
It all will be basically a get out of jail free card. Also he manipulates things with his presence. I don't doubt he can null zone the time stopping around him.

Giratina comes out to be turned into a cookie. You also cant count out Discord's toonforce. If standing still in time isn't funny, well then, he'll have to add comedy.

Assuming you mean in the movie,PIS.

I dont, to be honest I've never seen it.

Your point?Even if it really is immortal,it just gets counted out.

If only you could, but existance is chaos. Discord just pops up behind Arceus with a "Looks like you missed" and a cotton candy reforming. As I said, plates are plates and his existance is a reality warp zone. Time freezing likely isnt factoring in.


No.

Sadly yes.

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by NBT

The concept of chaos and toonforce is erased.The end.

The omnipotent must then rewrite his own laws, since doing so would eliminate itself as well. You can't eliminate chaos, its a natural force. Eliminating chaos would be to instill perfect order, thus causing the universe to collapse and the omnipotent's power would then be limited. Since the general rules of omnipotence requires him to abide by his own nature of omnipotence, breaking this rule would cause him to cease omnipotence due to his inability to maintain consistancy, thus limiting his powers by forcing him to do something, meaning he was incapable of doing so by any other mean.

Thus causing him to cease to be an omnipotent.

If the possibility exists, then the omnipotent cannot do so which would cause him to cease omnipotence.

Thus he cannot will away chaos. Also the willing away of chaos would still cause entropy to occur, which in itself is chaos. The omnipotent would be left with himself, and again, his power is then limited since theres no domain in which his power exists.

With a lack of existance, even chaos still occurs since the lack of it causes it.

Where there is chaos, Discord exists. Eliminating chaos becomes generating chaos through entropy. Eliminating entropy causes chaos in the void of what is left. There is no willing away of that which is change.

[Rasengan SageX5]

Originally Posted by NBT

The concept of chaos and toonforce is erased.The end.

Then Discord just brings it back. Besides, order cannot exist without chaos. The universe would just tear itself apart with no chaos to confront the order, meaning that Arceus would basically be destroying everything it made by erasing the source of Discord's power, meaning it could end in a double knock out.

[Jmalenko]

Which makes this battle a tie right?

[NBT]

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

Sadly yes.

Don't know.I'd rather be killed than watch that retarded a** horse show.And can you prove it can't?

We already went through this.I ain't doin it agian.

Don't feel like it right now.

The concepts of toonforce,chaos,and funny are unexisted.

[Frost ninja]

I've been over how its impossible to eliminate the forces of Chaos. To do so is to generate chaos, and to eliminate chaos ceases omnipotence since it then cannot act upon anything beause chaos is the action of change. Onmipotent thus becomes not only non-omnipotent but powerless, and to do so would then eliminate the omnipotent itself, bringing back chaos as he is eliminated, thus bringing back discord.

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by Rasengan SageX5

Then Discord just brings it back. Besides, order cannot exist without chaos. The universe would just tear itself apart with no chaos to confront the order, meaning that Arceus would basically be destroying everything it made by erasing the source of Discord's power, meaning it could end in a double knock out.

As things are destroyed, chaos generates, since in all means and purposes chaos is an act of change. Entropy.

Arceus eliminates chaos, it begins reforming as the universe tears itself.
Of course, Arceus cannot eliminate chaos. It lacks the power.

[Frost ninja]

So Discord has power of chaos and entropy, which are forces of change. Mix with toonforce and what is to be invulnerability to most of anything aside from the EoH, which even then cannot fully stop him.

The only thing that can stop him is the plotline of the beginning of season 2, and even then he basically gave up as he could've recorrupted the ponies or destroied them outright.

[NBT]

Except it isn't destroyed because it never existed in the first place and existence goes on just fine.

[Frost ninja]

Except by existance existing, chaos reexists.
You cant eliminate change and then have change occur. Lets say what you say is true.


The omnipotent eliminates change.

Due to change never existing, in any way shape or form, there is no need for a counterbalance.

Existance then continues fine.


Which begs the question...

Assuming change ceases to exist, all forces of change will cease to exist as well. Meaning anything that has ever changed or will ever change is eliminated.
Meaning the omnipotent is limited in that he can no longer change anything.

Meaning the omnipotent must cease omnipotence.
Meaning that change is genersted through his loss of power.
Meaning Discord is revived through the forced inclusion of change.
Meaning Discord continues to live on through chaos, even when chaos has ceased to be, because ceasing chaos is impossible.

An omnipotent cannot erase the power of change without erasing himself, for erasing change is to create change, and his ability to create change with his omnipotence will cause him to be erased as well.

To change something is to generate chaos as it goes against the order placed into motion by natural means. To get rid of chaos is to prevent it from ever occuring, meaning anything that has ever caused any form of chaos or change is hence eliminated as well since such a thing never existed. Meaning the omnipotence cannot generate chaos, rendering himself non-omni.

[TRcommander]

@Frost Ninja: You're being absolutely ridiculous. You do realize that you're claiming that somebody who lost a fight and got turned to stone is an omnipotent don't you? By the very definition of the word, Discord cannot be an omnipotent simply because he clearly has limits. If he was an omnipotent he wouldn't have lost. I'll give a more thorough response later when I have time, but seriously stop that nonsense. You can try to reason the issue any way you like, but the fact of the matter is, somebody that lost a fight is clearly not an omnipotent. That's also shown by the fact that he didn't even escape imprisonment on his own powers......it took outside forces to free him. So let me ask you......if Discord is an omnipotent, then does that mean the ponies that sealed him are above omnipotence o.O Because by your logic they clearly beat an omnipotent even if they didn't kill him.

[Frost ninja]

The episode had to end sometime, mate.
Of course he lost, he is a antagonist.
And he lost the fight of his own accord because he underestimated the ponies. He is omnipotent, not necessarily omniscient.

Who is to say omnipotents cannot choose to lose fights? And at that its not like he died, its not like his powers decreased at all, they simply became contained.

You can claim PIS in the case of arceus dying to humans, yet you cannot do the same for the two set episode?

[Cult of Personality]

An omnipotent being can do anything. This being rather the point of omnipotence. This includes erasing chaos and toonforce with no negative effects. If he can't do this then he isn't omnipotent.

Dunno why this is being discussed though since neither of these characters are omnipotent.

[TRcommander]

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

The episode had to end sometime, mate.
Of course he lost, he is a antagonist.
And he lost the fight of his own accord because he underestimated the ponies. He is omnipotent, not necessarily omniscient.

Who is to say omnipotents cannot choose to lose fights? And at that its not like he died, its not like his powers decreased at all, they simply became contained.

If he was omnipotent then it wouldn't matter what he did......he couldn't lose. He underestimates them, and they try to turn him to stone? A true omnipotent would just laugh at them for even thinking about fighting him and turn them to stone instead. Again, you can try to justify it any way you want, but an omnipotent cannot lose. The fact that he did lose in of itself proves he's not omnipotent. And say he did chose to let himself be turned to stone. An omnipotent could simply reverse it any time they wished without the need of an outside influence. So unless you can find him specifically stating that he wanted to be sealed all that time and can prove that he could escape on his own without any outside influence then you cannot even begin to speculate that he's an omnipotent.

You can claim PIS in the case of arceus dying to humans, yet you cannot do the same for the two set episode?

Arceus never died, and all of his fights took place while he was missing several plates meaning he didn't have anywhere near his full power. And he only lost those plates due to massive PIS. Discord on the other hand, I believe, was given a legitimate reason to be turned to stone. But even if you disagree with that, the fact remains that he lost in canon and cannot be an omnipotent.


I'll go back through the rest of the thread and see if there's anything else I need to respond to.

[Rasengan SageX5]

Discord didn't get willingly turned to stone the first time. From what we know, it was a quite a fight between him and Celestia and Luna, the other 2 god level being from the MLP verse. We can only assume, that the only way Celestia and Luna managed to seal him was to somehow catch him off guard and blast him with the Elements of Harmony.

[NBT]

If it was caught off gaurd,it ain't omnipotent.