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Omniverse Anything goes in this forum. Any multiverse, any singleverse, any fight. Just know in advance that Kakashi can't beat Superman.

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Old 04-10-2012, 05:22 PM   #41
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

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Originally Posted by TRcommander View Post
Like I said, the pokemon world is just an alternate version of the real life world so unless you want to claim that the Earth isn't in a universe then the green sphere is an entire universe, not just a dimension.


It could easily be a galaxy. Earth is also in a galaxy.
If I hold up a map of new york, its not a map of the universe even though new york is in a universe.


Because in the beginning there was only Arceus (as far as we know for now at least.....I wouldn't put it past them to throw in some more OP pokemon in the future, but that's just speculation) so the only way for there to be another Arceus is if the first one made it. Of course I'm not sure if it could make a being with the same level of power as itself since it hasn't in the series.



There was only arceus, but what if there were two? If we can accept there was one who came from nothing, then how can we dismis that there wasn't more whom had done the same?

Unlike Arceus, there's more than one Articuno. It's a common misconception that there's only one of each legendary, but there are more of some of them. Articuno is an example of that.


And yet I've never seen two in the same frame.


Idk? But how do you know he can keep going outside of the mlp verse?

Because he is the embodyment of chaos, which exists in all universes.

Wait a second..........did you just claim that Squirrel Girl is a much smaller force than Thanos Now she's going to have to break the fourth wall and go hunt you down just to show you how overpowered she is. Her hax > omnipotence
Spoiler:
and yes i'm joking


Or are you...?

But anyways.......so what you're telling me is that all Arceus has to do is trap him in stone?

EoH are esencially god powers. Supposing Discord is the devil, its a matter of devil paradox that he is imprisoned but not defeated, and retains all his powers. Plus all it took was an argument by children to set him free.

That movie had more CIS and PIS in it than the entire hst combined.

Mhmm.

Until Discord is shown on panel affecting a multiversal being, saying he could is just speculation. The size of said multiversal being in a physical form doesn't matter. Discord needs panel feats otherwise, for debate purposes, you can't claim that his hax can affect beings stronger than what it's been shown to.
Fair enough.
Show me Arceus worked alone. Eliminate all possibilities of there being more arceus that spawned from nothing. Also he messed with Celestia, whom is in the same boat as Arceus as a universe creator.

Prove that Discord cannot control chaos, or prove that Arceus or any of the universes he can make lack chaos within them.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:01 PM   #42
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

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Originally Posted by Frost ninja View Post
It could easily be a galaxy. Earth is also in a galaxy. If I hold up a map of new york, its not a map of the universe even though new york is in a universe.
.....except that part where they showed all those other galaxies inside the green sphere.

Quote:
There was only arceus, but what if there were two? If we can accept there was one who came from nothing, then how can we dismis that there wasn't more whom had done the same?
Since when is speculation valid? There's been one shown, and there's nothing to suggest that there's more. And what relevance would it have anyways?

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And yet I've never seen two in the same frame.
So? Are we to assume that any pokemon of the same species that aren't shown in the same frame are automatically the same one? They're not. The backstories of some legendaries, such as Latios/Latias even involve their parents. Just because these pokemon are rare doesn't mean that they're all literally one of a kind. Some are yes but not all.

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Because he is the embodyment of chaos, which exists in all universes.
Is he the chaos of all universes or the chaos of the mlp verse?

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Or are you...?
no.....

Quote:
EoH are esencially god powers. Supposing Discord is the devil, its a matter of devil paradox that he is imprisoned but not defeated, and retains all his powers. Plus all it took was an argument by children to set him free.
God and devil are just titles......I could claim that Arceus has 'god' powers too considering multiversal creation seems to be a better feat than anything in the mlp verse so far.

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Mhmm.
I hope you're joking here.

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Fair enough.
Show me Arceus worked alone. Eliminate all possibilities of there being more arceus that spawned from nothing.
Seriously? Are you really claiming that your speculation of (as of yet) non-existent pokemon are valid in a debate? Arceus was stated in every single pokemon canon to have created the pokemon verse and this is backed up by the fact that it....well......did. It even created other pokemon that are capable of universal creation and destruction, and it can still whoop their butts all at the same all at the same time. If you want to claim that Arceus "had help" please tell me where that help came from considering Arceus emerged in a place with nothingness.

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Also he messed with Celestia, whom is in the same boat as Arceus as a universe creator.
Arceus is multiverse creator. If Celestia is a universal creator then she's closer to the level of the Dialga/Palkia combo, which Arceus can wreck.

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Prove that Discord cannot control chaos, or prove that Arceus or any of the universes he can make lack chaos within them.
That's not how debating works. You made the positive claim that Discord could control chaos in any verse. You're the one who needs to provide proof that Discord can control the chaos outside of the mlp verse.

Last edited by TRcommander; 04-10-2012 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:12 PM   #43
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

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Originally Posted by TRcommander View Post
.....except that part where they showed all those other galaxies inside the green sphere.

It could be a galaxy in a much larger galaxy.



Since when is speculation valid? There's been one shown, and there's nothing to suggest that there's more. And what relevance would it have anyways?

If theres multiple Arceus, then theres no way to prove he is "multiversal"



So? Are we to assume that any pokemon of the same species that aren't shown in the same frame are automatically the same one? They're not. The backstories of some legendaries, such as Latios/Latias even involve their parents. Just because these pokemon are rare doesn't mean that they're all literally one of a kind. Some are yes but not all.


Fair enough.


Is he the chaos of all universes or the chaos of the mlp verse?

Chaos is chaos. Its not specified so it fits any and all. I don't see how chaos is any different from place to place.

no.....



God and devil are just titles......I could claim that Arceus has 'god' powers too considering multiversal creation seems to be a better feat than anything in the mlp verse so far.

Prove me multiversal can happen at once. Otherwise its just universal with time on his hands, and Discord is a universal being. Arceus has powers to create, but "god" powers means he has vast influence over the entire domain. Like how Discord's presence causes chaos, and he can manipulate things aroung him by will. Or how Celestia makes the sun move and whatnot.


I hope you're joking here.


About what?


Seriously? Are you really claiming that your speculation of (as of yet) non-existent pokemon are valid in a debate? Arceus was stated in every single pokemon canon to have created the pokemon verse and this is backed up by the fact that it....well......did. It even created other pokemon that are capable of universal creation and destruction, and it can still whoop their butts all at the same all at the same time. If you want to claim that Arceus "had help" please tell me where that help came from considering Arceus emerged in a place with nothingness.

Thats what I'm saying. He emerged from nothingness means theres a possibility that more spawned from the same place.


Arceus is multiverse creator. If Celestia is a universal creator then she's closer to the level of the Dialga/Palkia combo, which Arceus can wreck.

Arceus is a universe creator with time on his hands. He made multiple universes, but theres no proof it all happened at once.



That's not how debating works. You made the positive claim that Discord could control chaos in any verse. You're the one who needs to provide proof that Discord can control the chaos outside of the mlp verse.
I can prove he can control chaos. Prove to me chaos isn't the same anywhere else.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:16 PM   #44
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

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Originally Posted by NBT View Post
1.Prove there was more than one.

1. He came from nothing. There no stopping the theory that there was more than one, since xoming from nothing is possible for an arceus.


2.It's been stated a few times as as whathisface said,there've been other galaxies shown too.

But is it a universe? Galaxies does not a universe make.


3.Articuno willing fights with Noland and he never actually caught it anyway.In thhe movie,bruh man did catch and hurt.As to whether there're more than one,I don't know.

Mhmm.

4.According to Billy and Mandy,chaos can be destroyed;it just ain't a good idea.

According to many sources, universe creation is impossible.


5.IT DOESN'T MATTER IF HE WAS JOKING!

lkdnglkdsnlgknlnglksndlkgnf


6.The h*ll is EoH

Elements of Harmony, essentially the powers of "god".

7.Pretty sure Arceus can stop time so he can do that can hyper beam the *censored* out of whatsitssh*t.
ineffective. So long as chaos exists, Discord can't die.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:33 PM   #45
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

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I can prove he can control chaos. Prove to me chaos isn't the same anywhere else.
What does it matter?

It's been stated multiple times that it's a universe.That should be all the proof needed.

Never shown nor was the possibly even remotely hinted at,so until then there's only one Arceus.

If you mean universal creation is impossible in real life then sure.If not,then no.

Chaos is Chaos.What's ya point?

Pretty sure he went to sleep right after creating he created the universe.

About the CIS and PIS in the movie.

Pretty sure there's no chaos in Dialga,Palkia,or Giratina's worlds.In which case they can send it there and blow it's brains out its a**.

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Old 04-10-2012, 06:35 PM   #46
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

So then Arceus incaps himself by opening a universe attack.
And if chaos is chaos, then Discord has influence over just about all verses then.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:39 PM   #47
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

Say wha?
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:21 PM   #48
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

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It could be a galaxy in a much larger galaxy.
So.......there's lots of little galaxies floating around inside of other galaxies?.......yeah, no. That's ridiculous.

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If theres multiple Arceus, then theres no way to prove he is "multiversal"
Then please show me this other Arceus of which you speak.

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Chaos is chaos. Its not specified so it fits any and all. I don't see how chaos is any different from place to place.
It could be..........maybe. I don't know, I'm not a scientist.

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Prove me multiversal can happen at once. Otherwise its just universal with time on his hands, and Discord is a universal being. Arceus has powers to create, but "god" powers means he has vast influence over the entire domain. Like how Discord's presence causes chaos, and he can manipulate things aroung him by will. Or how Celestia makes the sun move and whatnot.

About what?
Arceus has control over the pokeverse as well, which is why that movie contained so much PIS......if they gave Arceus its full powers, there wouldn't have even been a movie. There was no reason for Arceus to try and tank that meteor....it was just massive PIS.

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Thats what I'm saying. He emerged from nothingness means theres a possibility that more spawned from the same place.
Prove it.

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Arceus is a universe creator with time on his hands. He made multiple universes, but theres no proof it all happened at once.
Well at least you've admitted the multiversal part. But of course I don't have any scans of Arceus simply creating everything in an instant, but I can't imagine it took a coffee break in between making time and space.

Quote:
1. He came from nothing. There no stopping the theory that there was more than one, since xoming from nothing is possible for an arceus.
What's stopping your theory is.....well.....it's just that- a theory. A nonsensical theory that you just came up with without any type of canonical reasoning behind it. It is completely invalid in a debate.

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But is it a universe? Galaxies does not a universe make.
What makes it a universe is that the green sphere is just an alternate version of our own universe. The other spheres exist completely outside of that, hence they are separate universes.

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Originally Posted by Frost ninja View Post
And if chaos is chaos, then Discord has influence over just about all verses then.
Prove it. You can claim is powers can exist in any universe despite them only being shown in one, but that doesn't make it true.

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Old 04-10-2012, 08:28 PM   #49
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

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Originally Posted by TRcommander View Post
It could be a galaxy in a much larger galaxy.

So.......there's lots of little galaxies floating around inside of other galaxies?.......yeah, no. That's ridiculous.

Is it? We've discovered multiple galaxies the likes of which haven't been explored and your going to tell me its absurd for a small galaxy to be in a large one? Statistically speaking, in all the universe, its impossible for there not to be.



Then please show me this other Arceus of which you speak.

Probability slants towards many over one. Please show me Arceus doing all of it on his own.

It could be..........maybe. I don't know, I'm not a scientist.

Ok.


Arceus has control over the pokeverse as well, which is why that movie contained so much PIS......if they gave Arceus its full powers, there wouldn't have even been a movie. There was no reason for Arceus to try and tank that meteor....it was just massive PIS.

Yep.


Prove it.



Well at least you've admitted the multiversal part. But of course I don't have any scans of Arceus simply creating everything in an instant, but I can't imagine it took a coffee break in between making time and space.

True it didn't but a multiverse doesn't just happen without universes to make it up.

What's stopping your theory is.....well.....it's just that- a theory. A nonsensical theory that you just came up with without any type of canonical reasoning behind it. It is completely invalid in a debate.

If what you say is true then you should have no problem disproving it. After all, the best counter to it is evidence.

What makes it a universe is that the green sphere is just an alternate version of our own universe. The other spheres exist completely outside of that, hence they are separate universes.

Or seperate dimensions. Also do we have proof he made those all at once? If not, he is not multiversal.

Prove it. You can claim is powers can exist in any universe despite them only being shown in one, but that doesn't make it true.
My proof is that chaos is in every and any universe. He is the embodyment of it. Do you have proof to the contrary that Discord, the embodyment of a force in nature, cannot use said force?
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:44 PM   #50
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

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My proof is that chaos is in every and any universe. He is the embodyment of it. Do you have proof to the contrary that Discord, the embodyment of a force in nature, cannot use said force?
Again;the fact that it's been stated in the anime to be a universe should be more than enough proof.

The fact that absolutely nothing suggests the possibly of another one is proof and even if,by some chance,there were another Arceus,it's clearly nowhere near the known one's multiverse.

No sh*t.What's ya point?

Got proof he didnt?Absolutely nothing suggests that he took his time making the universes.In the movie,all that's shown is Arceus making a big bang like explosion an then the universe is created.

Ship it to the Reverse World.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:48 PM   #51
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

Fair enough. So he makes a universe.

But he can't make a multiverse.

So discord simply morphs the universes as they come. Meanwhile Arceus makes 3, falls asleep, and then gets eaten.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:54 PM   #52
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

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Fair enough. So he makes a universe.

But he can't make a multiverse.

So discord simply morphs the universes as they come. Meanwhile Arceus makes 3, falls asleep, and then gets eaten.
Or Arceus stops time,ships thing to the Reverse World or some other place,and proceeds to blow it's brains out its a**.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:59 PM   #53
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

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Is it? We've explored multiple galaxies the likes of which haven't been explored and your going to tell me its absurd for a small galaxy to be in a large one?
Do you know what a galaxy is? It is a collection of stars systems. A smaller galaxy inside of a bigger galaxy cannot exist by definition because it would still just form one collection of star systems. And again, for you to disprove that the green sphere is a universe then you basically need to prove that we don't exist in a universe.

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Probability slants towards many over one. Please show me Arceus doing all of it on his own.
I honestly don't even understand why you would press such a ridiculous issue. Statements from canon:

"In a vortex of nothingness, a single Egg comes into being, which then hatches into Arceus, the first Pokemon."

""The Original One breathed alone before the universe came."

So yeah, there's one Arceus.

Quote:
My proof is that chaos is in every and any universe. He is the embodyment of it. Do you have proof to the contrary that Discord, the embodyment of a force in nature, cannot use said force?
Since you've been so insistent on asking for proof for things that should be really obvious, I'll go ahead and return the favor now. When exactly is it stated that Discord is chaos itself and not just a being that can control it?

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Old 04-10-2012, 09:27 PM   #54
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

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I honestly don't even understand why you would press such a ridiculous issue. Statements from canon:

"In a vortex of nothingness, a single Egg comes into being, which then hatches into Arceus, the first Pokemon."

""The Original One breathed alone before the universe came."

So yeah, there's one Arceus.

Thanks.
I knew there was evidence, I just wanted you to present it. :P



Since you've been so insistent on asking for proof for things that should be really obvious, I'll go ahead and return the favor now. When exactly is it stated that Discord is chaos itself and not just a being that can control it?
5:46 in episode one, Celestia explains Discord is the spirit of disharmony.
His lore is quite literally "until two gods combined their power and utilized possibly the most haxed power in the MLPverse, he was the top dog.". Also Her power and luna's power combined plus the EoH was required to turn him into stone, but they didn't destroy him.

So the power of two gods who made the universe and the most powerful elements in the universe could only do so much as to turn them to stone.
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:08 PM   #55
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

hmmmm some people just cant lose debates huh Frost Ninja...
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:26 PM   #56
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

Nope D:<

MLPverse for top tier.
Plus I dont see how this is still going since theres not really any way to incap or kill Discord meanwhile all he has to do is turn the plates into paper plates, or Arceus into a pie.
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:29 PM   #57
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

Again i think i said it in this thread of If you have the power to take your opponents strength or power and make it useless...your kinda in for a butt-kickin.
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:37 PM   #58
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

Quote:
Originally Posted by NBT View Post
Or Arceus stops time,ships thing to the Reverse World or some other place,and proceeds to blow it's brains out its a**.
As arceus stops time, Discord freezes, then just moves with a laugh.
If it was as simple as stopping time, why wouldn't the princess whom has time spells in her library have done so?

Also you can't kill it. Chaos is chaos, and chaos is discord.
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:40 PM   #59
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

Very interesting indeed...
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:41 PM   #60
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Default Re: Discord vs Arceus

Didn't you hear? Discord is omni now.
:L
MLPverse just got a TOAA.
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