Was George Zimmerman Justifed?

[tsuki]

Here is a video of Zimmerman coming into the police: http://www.freep.com/article/2012032...yssey=nav|head No bruising, no cuts, no scars to support his story of being beaten.

Testimony from girlfriend on phone with Martin: http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/cr...e-2249251.html Guy was stalking him and then confronted and pushed him causing earpiece to fall out. Disputes claims that Zimmerman was "jumped"

Testimony of people finding Zimmerman straddling body: http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com/...the-right-path

[tsuki]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Oh and ouch.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/po...w-head-injury/

It is shame when a piece of evidence goes agaisnt you.

Uhh, that just looks like his head. I don't see any cut or bruise. Just his head.

[Wooster]

Denial now I see.

How about you just admit there is no way to determine one way or anothr with that video particualrly it was taken after he was treated on the scene.

As for you links
1. Already discussed.

2. Her only evidence is what we already know. Martin knew he was being followed and confronted Zimmerman. The rest is assumptions on her part.

3. Witnesses after the gun shot. Meaning the didn't see what the witness saw before the gunshot, which backed Zimmerman's story. More assumption on witnesses part that a voice was not an adult. Pretty meaningless as 17-year old wouldn't sound like a child anyway. We already know a witness said Zimmerman screaming, so it was him.

[tsuki]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Denial now I see.

How about you just admit there is no way to determine one way or anothr with that video particualrly it was taken after he was treated on the scene.

As for you links
1. Already discussed.

2. Her only evidence is what we already know. Martin knew he was being followed and confronted Zimmerman. The rest is assumptions on her part.

3. Witnesses after the gun shot. Meaning the didn't see what the witness saw before the gunshot, which backed Zimmerman's story. More assumption on witnesses part that a voice was not an adult. Pretty meaningless as 17-year old wouldn't sound like a child anyway. We already know a witness said Zimmerman screaming, so it was him.

1. Actually he denied on scene treatment, from what I recall.

2. More like common sense. Some guy comes up to the person you are on the phone with and then all of a sudden it is silent and then disconnects.

3. It clearly says BEFORE the gun shot. No we don't. As I said earlier and provided in the link, the person who was screaming is in debate amongst the different testimonials. Don't just throw stuff out because it doesn't support you. And she said it sounded young, never said anything about a child, stop making stuff up.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by tsuki

1. Actually he denied on scene treatment, from what I recall.

2. More like common sense. Some guy comes up to the person you are on the phone with and then all of a sudden it is silent and then disconnects.

3. It clearly says BEFORE the gun shot. No we don't. As I said earlier and provided in the link, the person who was screaming is in debate amongst the different testimonials. Don't just throw stuff out because it doesn't support you. And she said it sounded young, never said anything about a child, stop making stuff up.

Not true. He did not go to a hospital afterwards. He did receive on scene treatment.

An assumption. We are delaing with facts. You have yet to provide any that refutes what the witness saw. Namely, Martin was on top of ZImmerman.

It does not, it clearly says after. Reread your story.
Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Lamilla, say they went outside when they heard the gunshot and saw Zimmerman standing over Martin.

Now you are getting into sematics. Lets go back to what the witness said shall we?

It sounded young. It didn't sound like a grown man is my point. It sounded to me like someone was in distress and it wasn’t like a crying, sobbing boo-hoo, it was a definite whine
Grown man? What is not a grown man? Oh yes, a child.

Of course, all these witness statements are only to reporters well after the fact. People's memories tend to believe what they think happened. All this means, is the police report is a much better picture of what really happened.

[tsuki]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Not true. He did not go to a hospital afterwards. He did receive on scene treatment.

An assumption. We are delaing with facts. You have yet to provide any that refutes what the witness saw. Namely, Martin was on top of ZImmerman.

It does not, it clearly says after. Reread your story.
Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Lamilla, say they went outside when they heard the gunshot and saw Zimmerman standing over Martin.

Now you are getting into sematics. Lets go back to what the witness said shall we?

It sounded young. It didn't sound like a grown man is my point. It sounded to me like someone was in distress and it wasn’t like a crying, sobbing boo-hoo, it was a definite whine
Grown man? What is not a grown man? Oh yes, a child.

Of course, all these witness statements are only to reporters well after the fact. People's memories tend to believe what they think happened. All this means, is the police report is a much better picture of what really happened.

Even if he did, is that treatment supposed to make all the scars and bruising magically disappear? I don't think so.

“We both saw him straddling the body, basically, a foot on both sides of Trayvon’s body and his hands pressed on his back,” Cutcher said. How bout dem apples?

Eyewitnesses describe hearing what they thought was a young person in distress just before they heard the gunshot that killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

Umm yeah, what was that? You forgot to read? Again

What is not a Grown Man? A TEENAGER! BOOM HEADSHOT! Suck on that!

Umm yeah, the police who let the main suspect walk away after a murder. Because their report is sure to be great. =D

I'm not going to debate with someone who doesn't debate in good faith, and comes up with crap and ignores stuff clearly presented in front of him.

[Wooster]

The video does not show Zimmerman is not injured, you just want to believe that. At best, it shows nothing one way or the other. Zimmerman did go to the hospital the next day for a broken nose. Medical records will show if that is true or not.

Yes, AFTER the gunshot. HE did just kill Martin, I imagine he might stand over the body afterwards. It certainly is not impossible, at least. Here let's try again:
Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Lamilla, say they went outside when they heard the gunshot and saw Zimmerman standing over Martin.

Trust me, the sound of a gunshot travels much faster than Cluther could go outside. Please, note that is the same person you quoted. And again, I am not contradicting any of these witnesses, how do you refute the witness in the police report that saw Martin on top of Zimmerman?

Tell me how you determine who is screaming by sound alone? The witness that saw it stated Zimmerman was screaming.

17-years is an old teenager and is a full grown man and sounds like a full grown man. I am sorry you don't understand the human growth cyle. When Zimmerman was getting the crap beat out of him, he no doubt sounded like a little school girl if only "not a full grown man."

And there we go, you assume they are lying becaue you have made up your mind without considering the facts.

So you don't debate with yourself?

[tsuki]

Okay so since Wooster refuses to debate honestly I suggest we ignore his posts from now on and continue the debate with anyone who wants to honestly discuss this case.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

What I find despicable irresponsible and stupid is that they're making this a race issue..as opposed to what appears to be one self righteous frustrated person gunning down a teenager who may very well have been acting some what suspicious.

I find it criminal that they did the whole no confidence thing to the police chief but the black Panthers put a bounty out on Zimmermens head and they aren't arrested and given the same treat a mobster would for that? that Spike Lee can without even bothering to do god damn research just copy pasta an address and in the middle of a damn investigation get thousands of people to go after this guy? Only for it to be an innocent old couple..and the dude isn't hauled in for questioning? or told under no certain terms if those gramps get worked over because of his irresponsible actions he'll be punished for it"?

No worse then the actual case is how badly this is being handled..how everyone is rushing to be PC and make this the next Rodney King mess- that needs to stop now..and people need to be taken to task for their actions on both sides of the fence for that. That is consummate

onto Zimmerman: did he really get assaulted? it doesn't look like it from the police videos and the like..no what it looks like is he was frustrated upset.."these people always get away" type comments.and the like.. he had a little bit of power and he acted on it..should he be charged with murder? if the police investigation (not a media investigation not modern pinkertons hired by any activist groups) but the legit law finds the guy committed an act of self defense..then no he shouldn't and he should be free to sue the ever lasting crap out of every single celebrity and media person who has tried to lynch him...

but if it went down like I think it did? Yeah send the guy up the river he killed an innocent kid. but I'm not sure what exactly happened the charged atmosphere and chummed waters make it very hard.;

I mean really..he has every right to act using lethal force..to defend himself and his community if that's what he did. I Come from a country where social justice has taken over the system and the criminals have more rights then the people they rob..and assault and I thank god everyday I live in a country now where I have the right to defend myself...but my right to defend myself doesn't mean I've got the right to profile a kid and put his brains on the pavement.

in short: if the kid really did assault him everyone needs to recompense the guy for doing his civic duty..some reports suggest that this isn't what happened that he gunned down an innocent kid..no idea if those are objective or not What I do know..this is all being handled very poorly by everyone involved

[Taka-hebi1]

Here's what I think: George Zimmerman news reports on him said that he said he saw a Hooded man walking who looked supicious. It was indeed Traevon George says T.Martin attacked him right?,But this really add up why would T.Martin attack him?I think his claimed "Self Defense" Is Bs.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by Taka-hebi1

Here's what I think: George Zimmerman news reports on him said that he said he saw a Hooded man walking who looked supicious. It was indeed Traevon George says T.Martin attacked him right?,But this really add up why would T.Martin attack him?I think his claimed "Self Defense" Is Bs.

while that is certainly possible..you aren't coming to that conclusion based off much of anything..it seems and that's not good that causes more problems then it solves

[Wooster]

I don't see any point applying motives to either of them. In the end, there is what happened and what can be proved.

Thus far, there is nothing to contradict that Zimmerman acted in self defense. Until such time, people shouldn't proclaim him a murderer.

Now if Zimmerman instigated the scuffle, he would perhaps be guilty of manslaughter. But if at any point Zimmerman tried to retreat or was unable to retreat and Martin kept on him, Zimmerman is in his right to defend himself with any means necessary.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I like how limiting our self defense laws..is the logical reaction of this incident

No matter what country you live in..the left never changes ever

[Wooster]

That would cause a big problem for Detroit residents. Police take hours to reply to calls to 911

[ONIMUSHA]

Wooster, if he was really beaten as badly as you say, he would be absolutely COVERED in cuts and bruises on his face, no treatment could make that go away that quickly, hell, he would also have a major concussion which would result in him not being able to walk right, if at all, for at least a few days

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by Wooster

That would cause a big problem for Detroit residents. Police take hours to reply to calls to 911

you think that's the end of it wait until your thrown in jail for manslaughter for killing two armed thugs because your gun is a higher caliber then theirs

just happened to a family friend back home

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by ONIMUSHA

Wooster, if he was really beaten as badly as you say, he would be absolutely COVERED in cuts and bruises on his face, no treatment could make that go away that quickly, hell, he would also have a major concussion which would result in him not being able to walk right, if at all, for at least a few days

not really..he should have bruises on his face or head..but not necessarily a bloody heap

[Bacon]

@omnimusha:To be honest there is always the possibility that zimmerman was able to stave off the kid before finally being able to pull out his gun. Though that's only a superficial assumption because my first impression was this zimmerman guy randomly killed some kid. Now there's the possibility of the kid attacking him? With that there's nothing I can really say except wait for solid evidence to consider.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by Laxeres

That's easy.

Testosterone nuff said.

Um, since when can a 911 Call say anything in the case of a combat? He would've hung up the phone and then lead to the following, therefore how else would the 911 call have track of him? No he should't have, it is also documented that Martin has had a history of being an aggressive person, shown by his FB and his school records. As well as his father in the interview saying " Your going to die" is what was said to Zimmerman by Martian. He ended the kids life because of what he said and the aggression he brought on by it.

wait a minute what? the kid had a record or a history?

[Devils Lawyer]

Either way how it happened the whole incident and death could have been avoided. The whole incident is subjective and opinionated No one knows what happened for sure. Not unless you are god like wooster said. But regardless Zimmerman still followed him instead of calling the police. Which clearly meant somewhere in his mind he wanted or was looking for a confrontation. That is my view on it.