Dragonball... I think everyone hates it.

[TheBlackChidori]

Seriously, at least on this forum. I've seen many people that downplay Dragonball, but this forum seems to have a unanimous outlook on DB being a fairly weak verse.

Where do you personally scale DB? Like compared to what other Verses?

If we include anime feats, would you say anyone in the series is an Omnipotent? Think of some of the best displays of power in the series.

Shenron can raise the dead, restore destroyed planets, and grant most wishes apart from killing someone more powerful than him.

Super Buu committed Genocide on the entire planet, killing 5 billion people instantly.

Goku can IT basically anywhere in the universe, to any realm living or dead, in a split second. How fast, no one can really say, but it's believed to literally be instant.

Moon Busting early - We can rule that out I suppose.

Planet Busting was canon as early as 1st Form Frieza. Let's powerscale some. Don't get picky on the order here, just belting out the characters that appeared, not necessarily a tier list.
1st Form > 2nd > Piccolo > 3rd > final > SSJ Goku > 19 > 20 > SSJ Vegeta > 18 > 17 > Kamiccolo > Imperfect Cell > 2nd Form Cell > USSJ Vegeta/Trunks > SSJ Goku > Dabura > Adult SSJ2 Gohan > Perfect Cell > Teen SSJ2 Gohan > Majin Vegeta > SSJ2 Goku > Fat Buu > Evil Buu > SSJ3 Goku > Super Buu > SSJ3 Gotenks > Ultimate Gohan > Kid Buu > Super Buu W/ gotenks > Super Buu w/ Gohan and Piccolo > SSJ Vegetto.

Then we can add in GT to be real big about it, but bleh GT.

Anyway. That's a huge scale of improvement there. Even the Supreme Kai talked of Kai's that once could have killed the one they knew as Frieze with just one blast, before they were killed by Majin Buu. If Frieza can effortless destroy a planet in first form with one blast, and beings much weaker than Majin Buu can destroy Frieza with one blast, what can we LOGICALLY say that these characters are capable of?


And could Babidi beat the old Superman? Legit question.

[Ultimate combatant]

I`d place Dragon Ball verse only below Max Brandonverse!!!

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

Seriously, at least on this forum. I've seen many people that downplay Dragonball, but this forum seems to have a unanimous outlook on DB being a fairly weak verse.

it's stronger then 70% of fiction but compared to the big three marvel dc and image it is weak..

no one hates DBZ we all hate DBZ fans for being unreasonable fanatics and this is me a dbz fan saying this...one has to experience full on DBZ tardism to really understand

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

Where do you personally scale DB? Like compared to what other Verses?

low top tier universe...maybe mid top tier impressive compared to most but nothing like what the fan dumb hypes 'em out to be

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

If we include anime feats, would you say anyone in the series is an Omnipotent? Think of some of the best displays of power in the series.

\
1, why in the name of god would you include anime? It's massively wanked out

2, no..nothing in DBZ even surpasses Green Lantern level reality warping nothings omnipotent

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

Shenron can raise the dead, restore destroyed planets, and grant most wishes apart from killing someone more powerful than him.

all stuff Hal Jordan and The Silver surfer could do and have done

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

Super Buu committed Genocide on the entire planet, killing 5 billion people instantly.

Magneto, Thragg and Spawn could do the same thing so could any Gold Saint worth their salt only instead of it being limited to the earth it'd be the entire galaxy

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

Goku can IT basically anywhere in the universe, to any realm living or dead, in a split second. How fast, no one can really say, but it's believed to literally be instant.

Goku can still be easily speed blitzed but I agree this is impressive

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

Planet Busting was canon as early as 1st Form Frieza. Let's powerscale some. Don't get picky on the order here, just belting out the characters that appeared, not necessarily a tier list.
1st Form > 2nd > Piccolo > 3rd > final > SSJ Goku > 19 > 20 > SSJ Vegeta > 18 > 17 > Kamiccolo > Imperfect Cell > 2nd Form Cell > USSJ Vegeta/Trunks > SSJ Goku > Dabura > Adult SSJ2 Gohan > Perfect Cell > Teen SSJ2 Gohan > Majin Vegeta > SSJ2 Goku > Fat Buu > Evil Buu > SSJ3 Goku > Super Buu > SSJ3 Gotenks > Ultimate Gohan > Kid Buu > Super Buu W/ gotenks > Super Buu w/ Gohan and Piccolo > SSJ Vegetto.

...mother of god... it's MFG all over again

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

Then we can add in GT to be real big about it, but bleh GT.

it's also so non canon it's, its own universe

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

Anyway. That's a huge scale of improvement there. Even the Supreme Kai talked of Kai's that once could have killed the one they knew as Frieze with just one blast, before they were killed by Majin Buu. If Frieza can effortless destroy a planet in first form with one blast, and beings much weaker than Majin Buu can destroy Frieza with one blast, what can we LOGICALLY say that these characters are capable of?

since first form Freiza never busted a planet on panel and feats trump everything else no..and one of the Supreme kais showed himself to be stronger than kid buu..the rest were scrubs

Dai Kaio excluded

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

And could Babidi beat the old Superman? Legit question.

you mean golden age superman who was barely above spiderman? Sure he could..Mercenary Tao could feed him his intestines

You mean god like PC superman? no.

You mean post crisis pre reboot superman? no...

[waterluffyG2]

Seriously, at least on this forum. I've seen many people that downplay Dragonball, but this forum seems to have a unanimous outlook on DB being a fairly weak verse.

Nope, dragonball is a really strong verse. Just not on the level of DC or Doctor Who.

Where do you personally scale DB? Like compared to what other Verses?

Tricky... There isn't a lot of stuff equal to it. They are either way above, or way below.

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

If we include anime feats, would you say anyone in the series is an Omnipotent? Think of some of the best displays of power in the series.

I don't think there was anything in the series to indicate multiverse-busting capacity. Powerful yes, omnipotent no. Especially seeing as if one of them was omnipotent, they wouldn't need to fight anyone. They could insti-defeat anyone else in the series if they wished.

Planet Busting was canon as early as 1st Form Frieza. Let's powerscale some. Don't get picky on the order here, just belting out the characters that appeared, not necessarily a tier list.
1st Form > 2nd > Piccolo > 3rd > final > SSJ Goku > 19 > 20 > SSJ Vegeta > 18 > 17 > Kamiccolo > Imperfect Cell > 2nd Form Cell > USSJ Vegeta/Trunks > SSJ Goku > Dabura > Adult SSJ2 Gohan > Perfect Cell > Teen SSJ2 Gohan > Majin Vegeta > SSJ2 Goku > Fat Buu > Evil Buu > SSJ3 Goku > Super Buu > SSJ3 Gotenks > Ultimate Gohan > Kid Buu > Super Buu W/ gotenks > Super Buu w/ Gohan and Piccolo > SSJ Vegetto.

Anyway. That's a huge scale of improvement there. Even the Supreme Kai talked of Kai's that once could have killed the one they knew as Frieze with just one blast, before they were killed by Majin Buu. If Frieza can effortless destroy a planet in first form with one blast, and beings much weaker than Majin Buu can destroy Frieza with one blast, what can we LOGICALLY say that these characters are capable of?

Still planetbusting. Just bigger planetbusting. The gap from planetbusting to starbusting is so immense you cannot powerscale it any farther in any situation.

And could Babidi beat the old Superman? Legit question.

If you are talking about silver age superman, he stomps DBZverse. He was casually pulling galaxys around and had massive intelligence to boot.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

DBZ is gotta be..in the top 10-20 % in terms of strongest verses

you got things like Sailor Moon and Saint Seiya Tenchi Muyo Dr Who and Star Trek and Transformers and Marvel and DC and Xeele and the culture and The Lensmen universes above it

that's not a bad place

it gets bad when..everyone starts the superman vs goku debate

[TheBlackChidori]

The Babidi thing I ask, because of Superman's weakness to magic. There's... ways. The Supreme Kai managed to create a block of Kachin out of nothing, soooo could he just make some Kryptonite? In all likelihood, Supes would just wave his finger and disintegrate them, but you know. Strat.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

The Babidi thing I ask, because of Superman's weakness to magic.

which would matter for PC superman..if he was fast enough but he isn;'t PC Superman was weaker to magic then he was to kryptonite..surprisingly a generic magical blast that barely annoyed Batman blew a hole in his shoulder once in the 70's

post crisis Clark is different basically he was as weak to magic as the average dude..not weaker.. basically and because he was a high tier class 100 who was natturally resistant to transmutation to a low degree

Basically he was defenseless against high tier magic..but you had to be a powerful wizard to affect him

Babidi does not have what it takes..to make a go at him..

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

There's... ways. The Supreme Kai managed to create a block of Kachin out of nothing, soooo could he just make some Kryptonite? In all likelihood, Supes would just wave his finger and disintegrate them, but you know. Strat.

can he make Kryptonite? ehh it has a really funky molecular make up..I mean Green Lanterns can do it.. high tier transmutators and magicians can

but GL's have a cosmic AI feeding them data 24/7 essentially a telepathic cosmic wikipedia.. and the transmutators who do it usually do it based off what they think is kryponite and at times it worked half assed basically came out wrong

high tier magicians do whatever they want soo

Can Shin do it? if he access to information on what it was made of yeah sure why not..but could he just whip it up from scratch? probably not

and post crisis superman took time to be severely weakened by Kryptonite Kal could just shoot his head off and fly into space before he weakened too much

Current Superman Shin could one shot though easily without using Kryptonite

[cnorwood]

dragonball is a really strong verse, its just not top tier, read more fictions, they all have feats that far outclass dragonball

[the endless]

If we use only canon manga then Dragon Ball is on low - mid herald level
If we use anime, DBZ is on low skyfather level

Canon Dragon Ball can beat around 70% of other fictional verses

[waterluffyG2]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

The Babidi thing I ask, because of Superman's weakness to magic. There's... ways. The Supreme Kai managed to create a block of Kachin out of nothing, soooo could he just make some Kryptonite? In all likelihood, Supes would just wave his finger and disintegrate them, but you know. Strat.

Seeeing as he is massivly FTL, that won't really matter. But good point.

[MinatoXNaruto]

Originally Posted by waterluffyG2

I don't think there was anything in the series to indicate multiverse-busting capacity.

Since we are going by Anime feats I can use Broly as an example. Broly destroyed the entire southern galaxy, and he wasn't even in LSSJ form. If a restricted Broly can easily destroy an entire galaxy, God knows what Vegito could do

[Vivi]

Originally Posted by MinatoXNaruto

Since we are going by Anime feats I can use Broly as an example. Broly destroyed the entire southern galaxy, and he wasn't even in LSSJ form. If a restricted Broly can easily destroy an entire galaxy, God knows what Vegito could do

Dub Error.
Original Japanese mentions that the Galaxy was merely under attack and speaks in present tense not past.
More than proof enough that the galaxy was still there and was gradually destroyed not at once.
Under attack not shattered.It's in the process of being destroyed.

In Funimation Kai says the Galaxy is all gone.
In Japanese the galaxy "is being..."
It's being attacked.Nothing more.

If it was one-shotted Kai would have said "It's been..." not "is being".

Also the sequence was sped up cause in the flashback its been established that Broly has been attacking places since he was a child.
Sped up for the viewers so we don't have to wait 10 years to watch the galaxy break and to get to the Main Story.

Also King Kai pointed to the Galaxy so that Goku could IT to it.

Also we can see that the planets weren't even destroyed.Just the surface messed up.

YouTube:

So Broly destroyed the galaxy, minus stars and planets?

I tell you what Goku did.
He arrived in a dead world.Nothing more.

The fact Goku IT'd to a Planet proves:
The Galaxy is still standing.

All that happened was Broly destroying Civilizations and ruining planets not destroying them.

More evidence?
The Story takes place on New Vegeta.
Et tu?
A Planet in the Galaxy that was supposed to be destroyed by Broly.

Broly is no Galaxy buster.Period.

Understand?
If Broly destroyed the Galaxy then it's impossible for the 2 Planets to have been existing.
Same for Goku being able to IT to it especially to a Planet.
Without a Galaxy being present Goku would have ended up in the realm of nothingness yet he ended up on a Planet.

[TheBlackChidori]

But didn't Goku Instant Transmission out there right after King Kai said it was under attack? We witness the majority of the Galaxy blink out. If Brolly was trying to lure Goku out there, he would have left a planet in tact to fight on.

It didn't take Goku years to go fight him, as soon as King Kai noticed it, he told Goku, who went after it. He even commented on his galaxy being next.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

But didn't Goku Instant Transmission out there right after King Kai said it was under attack? We witness the majority of the Galaxy blink out. If Brolly was trying to lure Goku out there, he would have left a planet in tact to fight on.

It didn't take Goku years to go fight him, as soon as King Kai noticed it, he told Goku, who went after it. He even commented on his galaxy being next.

my guess is that we saw a clip show of what actually happened..a montage of Brolli's rampage

with King Kai worrying that now that he was done..there he might hit up the milky way next..

it's very clear from other flash backs from Brolli;s childhood that they spent decades in that galaxy

[TheBlackChidori]

So King Kai watched Brolly destroy it for decades before bothering to tell anyone it was happening? I don't buy that.

[waterluffyG2]

Originally Posted by MinatoXNaruto

Since we are going by Anime feats I can use Broly as an example. Broly destroyed the entire southern galaxy, and he wasn't even in LSSJ form. If a restricted Broly can easily destroy an entire galaxy, God knows what Vegito could do

There is a ridiculously huge gap between galaxybusting and universebusting, though.

[cnorwood]

king kai watched freiza bust stuff up for years, he didnt say anything

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

So King Kai watched Brolly destroy it for decades before bothering to tell anyone it was happening? I don't buy that.

Why wouldn't you? King Kai had no problem lying to Goku and doing absolutely nothing about a genocidal tyrant who ruled a huge piece of his galaxies..and the guys father..for a very long time

is the concept of King Kai deliberately doing or saying nothing until he was absolutely sure Goku and his team were ready to face him..seem so odd to you?

King Kai was a pragmatic god and the guy used the Z senshi as his personal hit squad and he wasn't above BSing to them when it suited his needs or he knew they weren't up to a certain task.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to believe now..especially when it;'s backed up by Brolli;s childhood and the entire central fight and final moments of the story taking place in the ruins of that galaxy

basically what actually happened on screen seems to supports our take on it..and KK has always been manipulative

Originally Posted by cnorwood

king kai watched freiza bust stuff up for years, he didnt say anything

once upon a time Akira Toriyama did actually write things other than "omg he's strong" in his stories

King Kai being a manipulative liar perfectly willing to use the Z senshi as his own shock troops was a prime example of this

then..that was replaced by abc logic

[Leafy]

I think Dragonball is an amazing series (witht he exception of GT). This show basically paved the way for anime to be as big as it is now in the US. I mean, even if you don't like it, you have to admit that it influenced most anime/manga since....(blah blah blah, says more stuff)

/2 cent

[NBT]

And what exactly does that have to do with anything?