Why Sasuke sucks.

[e710]

Originally Posted by The Immortal Watch Dog

you're right but what he can do is create a thread attacking the positions of Sasuke fans..the fans themselves for their biased and he is entirely within his right to point out the invalidity of their views regarding who he can and can't beat providing his argument is good enough



really? So you think they're just "as guilty as everyone else?" do you feel we should be fair? Because that's funny see I've seen all manner of depravity from Uchiha fans..my life has been threatened by Sasuketards the life of members of my family..have been threatened because they can't handle when he looses fights

have you seen them claim Susano'o can stop the deathstar? That Yata no Kagami can block universe destroying attacks? I have..one time I had to debate against it on MFG alone..for twenty god damn pages because everyone around me was either a moron fanboy..or too tired to invest in the struggle

I've seen all manner of stupidity dishonesty and rampant viciousness perpetrated by the Naruto fandom especially the Sasuke and Itachi and Uchiha fandoms..

so don't sit here and claim that they are just 'no worse then the rest" when they are.. and have proven themselves to be the lowest of the low time and time again

Why work so hard? If they are all that ignorant or clueless or too much of a fan then why not just let them think whatever?

[ILIKEPIE]

some threads should be avoided because of crazys and wow the death star I've never heard of people being that crazy before

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by e710

Why work so hard? If they are all that ignorant or clueless or too much of a fan then why not just let them think whatever?

because a vs debater has an obligation to defend his section from wank to lead by example and to champion honesty and objectivity

and if you give the trolls an inch they'll take a yard

Originally Posted by Lone_Espada

I think I pissed my pants from laughing so hard.

if the narration states it can block anything..it can block anything period

don't get me wrong it's just Naruto fans..bleach has the infamous living tribunal vs Ichigo thread

"you realize that the LT killed a multiversal entity easily"

"but he can't do anything to Ichigo because he lacks riatsu so his cosmic powers wont do anything"

Originally Posted by ILIKEPIE

some threads should be avoided because of crazys and wow the death star I've never heard of people being that crazy before

the deathstars nothing,...the Kyuubi being as powerful as Shuma gorath

Susano'o deflecting an attack from the Infinity Gauntlet

[Nightmare Luffy]

To be honest I didnt read any thing within the thread, but I did read the OP so I guess Ill just respond to that should be fun since theres a lot too respond to & Im interested in replying.

Originally Posted by megabbaut

Okay, I'm am really getting tired of people overestimating Sasuke. He is literally the most wanked character in the whole series. It's time to put an end to this.

I dont think youve seen Itachis wank level.

His TSUKUYOMI. First of all let's face it, Sasuke is the one of the worst genjutsu users in the manga. Anyone could break it as if it was a perfectly regular genjutsu. Like how Naruto tried to break Itachi's genjutsu, but even easier. We've all seen how easily Danzo broke it. It's that much weaker than Itachi's. Second of all, it does not work on people who has knowledge of the technique. They could very simply avoid contact with his eyes. Not that hard.

You act like Danzo breaking his genjutsu is a demerit when really Danzo as youve seen has his own sharingan and a very skilled genjutsu user. Being an elder of Konoha should prove that as well either way.

Worst genjutsu user? Shi really acted like he was the worst genjutsu user when he, also a genjutsu user was fooled by Sasukes genjutsu. Chapter 462 page 6

The end of 477 and beginning of 478 touch up on that, Danzo never really broke it but Sasukes movement were also bound. Not too mention Danzo admitted he was caught he hardly broke it, but I guess you can thank Izanagi for that.

In fact chapter 480 pages 3-7 work out great in Sasukes favor when Danzo was tricked pretty easily despite having his own sharingans as well he fell right into Sasukes trap. Actually, Chapter 243 page 5 shows when in a genjutsu you should be able to see and know irregular chakra flow but Danzo still fell right into Sasukes genjutsu. Tobi also explains for me.

Also Sasuke easly saw through Shis attempt at a genjutsu, keep note he's a jonin too, he was fooled by Sasukes genjutsu and Sasuke easily broke through his(461), I guess thats 2 down for Sasuke has better genjutsu good thing said 2 people are pretty powerful and have great genjutsu themselves. Then theres all those fodder he easily takes down on a regular basis.

His AMATERASU. This really makes me sick. People are saying "this is instant" when the Raikage was able to dodge it, and "this is instant, there is no way the target will be able to react" when in fact this is pure BS. Every time he uses the technique, his eye is bleeding profusely. This basically gives the technique away, and tells the target what Sasuke is trying to do. Just throw a piece of paper and front of you, and that will block it for you. In this case, a Shuriken or Kunai will do the trick. There's also some idiotic strategy someone made up that, if someone tries to avoid eye contact with Sasuke in order to avoid Tsukuyomi, he can use Amaterasu since the target isn't looking at Sasuke. This is, of course, WRONG. As seen when Kakashi, Naruto, Sakura, and Chiyo tried not to look at Itachi's eyes, they knew when Itachi turned it off, and when he turned it on. And after that, they started looking at Itachi's eyes again. So this would go the same for Sasuke. Naturally, neither Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu would work. Especially since more than half of the Narutoverse has knowledge of MS in general anyway.

I agree it takes prep time which people dont realize but, shuriken/kunai wont do anything & if you dont have the speed to back it up you cant just block dodge ammy. It appears where the user is looking assume you focused your eyes already anyway AKA the prep time, in the time it took Amaterasu to travel to where Sasuke was looking A already dodged it, Sasukes eyes couldnt keep up with him. The Ammy hit the samurai behind A though shuriken or kunai arent big enoug to block something like that. As llong as sasuke can follow yo with his eyes(also backed by sharingan precog) if youre not fast enough you wont do anything against amaterasu in that aspect. Also after Ammy is used it can be moved and trailed as seen with itachi, before you say "itachi is superior to Sasuke so he can do it, Sasuke cant" keep in mind Sasuke uses Enton & surpassed Itachi in the ammy aspect.

His SUSANOO. This is the most overrated piece of crap I've ever seen. People "this" the ultimate defense that surpasses any other defense ever made, when in fact many people forget that Susanoo has so many side effects on the user. One, they start going blind after overuse of the technique, and two, their chakra depletes very rapidly during usage. Durability is useless if you are feeling pain in every cell in your body, as Sasuke described it in like the third time he used it. As for offense, gaining some far distance against Susanoo will give it trouble landing hits. This also goes perfectly with Itachi's Susanoo and it's Totsuka Sword. Arrows? dodged. Especially when you can react to them, like Danzo and Kakashi did without much effort.

Without much effort? chapter 478 page 9 & 10 for one and also 484 page 6. It sure seemed like not much effort when the 2 top tiers didn't have time to do anything at all. Kakashi had to resort to his most chakra draining technique that made it hard for him to walk after, & Danzo had to redirect it at last second he said he had no time to make any seals. What does that say for people weaker or slower than them heck Kakashis a pretty fast guy.

Here's where your wrong when you talk about all the downsides of Susanoo/MS in general. He used a total of 5 susanoo arrows in that fight I repeat 5, go back and check for yourself for verification. He only did that after spamming his mangekyou sharingan and lots of jutsu and fighting raikage, and kumo and Mei and etc for the entire time in the kage summit.

Heres a list of all the things he did in the kage summit, before sitting in his complete susanoo for his entire fight with Danzo and spamming the arrows with ease. I joted them down when I was reading through anyways and theres a couple feats there I noted while passing through, re read the fight to verify

Originally Posted by my notes

2 chidori
1 random genjutsu of high enough caliber to fool a jonin level genjutsu user
amplifying his sword with chidori 3 times(also reflecting all the samurais attacks with one slash)
2 amaterasu
3 enton
Susanoo outside at the kage summit, also back inside for a total of ++minutes all after doing the above

tanked attacks from gaara temari kankuro and Darui at the same time with ease tanked hiramekarei smashing him into the wall //susanoo
465 12 reacted to Mifune you know that guy who's known for his kinsmanship & ability to kill with his sword before the enemy can use seals, yep hey and Mifune even complimented him.
465 15 reacted to Meis yoton if that counts for aything

Also he used Chidori 1nce, his chidori eisou against Danzo 2 times & amaterasu one time.This is ALL what he did before using Susanoo & at that he sat in it the whole fight with Danzo and spammed 5 arrows. All the arrows too fast for Danzo or Kakashi to do anything against.

Only THEN, cause he was spamming his MS the whole time did his eye sight get worse and start to not want to use the MS any more, or feel real chakra loss. He used dozens of jutsu & MS jutsu in succession against Danzo & the entire Kage summit and those are his drawbacks, if he starts fresh in a VS Fight hes capable of all fo the above at LEAST.

Not too mention I disagree & Id think anyone would, Durability still matters when the susanoo tanked all those attacks with 0 effort, pain isnt the same as durability lets face it without using Susanoo against top tiers like Danzo Mei Raikage and taking all their attacks head on I dont see anyone surviving. Sasukes susanoo can tank a lot, Sasuke has to put up with the pain(after spamming and using so much chakra as i said above) but its way different than taking the attacks. You treat it like "well he still feels the pain therefore syusanoos durability is " well this is not true just because he feels pain in every cell while using susanoo opponents still cant rbeak past it, I fell youre ignoring that for a reason or @ least trying to get around it.

The Sharingan has been debunked in this thread: http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107470

Eh as I see in that thread youre giving points of taijutsu mostly other characters surpass other characters by a lot. my best advice is to look @ Sasuke v Naruto in VOTE in Part 1. IDK about this much though really Sasuke usually just spams MS at this point

Its not so much "sharingan"and SOLELY precog however as I showed above a base sharingan can incapacitate a jonin level genjutsu user whos skilled enuogh to be the Raikages guard. & as its not just "base" sharingan, the MS is usefull for all sorts of things not just precog ofc.

His SPEED. The second overrated thing about Sasuke. Let's face it, aside from fodders, Sasuke cannot blitz anyone in the Narutoverse. Someone as slow as Deidara was able to both react to him, and dodge him. And that was twice in a row, too. And Deidara is that same guy who gave in to an angry Naruto punch, when he couldn't even react to that. And he's supposed to be slower than Sasuke, according to the fanboys. Sasuke isn't blitzing anyone who could not be touched by KN0 Naruto. This includes the Sound 4, because Kidomaru dodged Naruto Rasengan from behind, IIRC.

Sasukes regarded by some of the top tiers as one of the fastest characters heck in Part 1 he was as fast as weightless Lee easy. Im not really keying on this when responding to your post however, Deidaras a fast character why do you treat him like one of the slowest? Is it cause he fought Sasuke & if he was strong/fast it would make Sasuke strong/fast? Deidara reacted to Sasukes shunshin, it was one of the best shunshin weve ever seen & Sasuke still got behind Deidara and continued the upper hand in speed there.

Then mifune as I said above, parried KB swords for abit(albeit getting owned in the end lol) theres a lot of speed feats here. Anyway before you say "Yeah see he cant even dodge KBs swords" keep in mind he's another top tier thats not a bad thing either.

KIRIN. He can only use this technique once, and ever since the Itachi fight, he cannot use it any more. This is because he needs Great Dragon Flames for it, which he does not have anymore due to the loss of his curse mark. Yes, he needs CS2 because he has never done Great Dragon Flames in base. And Amaterasu had to help in the making of the weather changing conditions, and Amaterasu alone is not going to be able to accomplish this feat. Taka Sasuke has absolutely nothing to change the weather with. Oh and by the way, his fire jutsu is easily avoided by most of the verse since even PTS Naruto was able to dodge the gigantic ones.

He doesnt need it, any high leveled katon akin to that will do just fine. I realyl dont like when people use the "he only used it in ___ form so he never showed it in base therefore he cant use it" thats a horrible way to put it but I guess if were going by "feats".. Itachis Amaterasu worked just fine for that I think Sasukes can suffice too. Either way Kirin shouldnt matter much, Im not keying on Kirin either as poposed to the rest of it but still

His Chidori is just a simple punch. Just grab his arm and it is pathetically countered. Itachi and Kakashi were able to do it.

& do what run into Nagashi/Eisou/Genjutsu/Enton? Heck I think against Sasuke grabbing his hand is a bad idea, & why does Kakashi and itachi grabbing his hand make it ineffective against everyone else? Theyre 2 top top tier shinobi & heck one time he was in Part 1 in a blind rage, in Part 2 he had no idea Kakashi was in the fight he was going for Sakura.

In the end, the precious "Sasuke" is nowhere near haxxed, and definitely nowhere near Kage level. Especially since he got his ass kicked in every fight he has been in in Shippuden. Even after his training with Orochimaru

Jiraiya never won a fight, Orochimaru never won a fight, Itachi never won a fight, Kabuto never won a fight IDK if those 4 examples are even true since I just named 4 randoms but I think you get the point. It doesnt stop them from being 4 top tier characters. Just cause Sasuke was "beat" if you want to call it that by character in Part 2 it doesnt make him a weak character if theyre all top tier like Raiakage or Mei etc. He fought the whole Kage Summit and barely lost & he beat Danzo, beat Sick orochimaru(well he still won ), Itachi(not technically but it doesnt count as getting "ass kicked" lol) etc.

If it were just Sasuke vs Raikage he would have been pretty unharmed, A would be armless & no one would be there to assist @ all. Things turn out differently but no Sasuke fought nearly everyone at Kage Summit and did pretty well. A was going to run right into the enton if it werent for Gaara actually. Unless you wanna claim A is tier too

-_____-

Questions? Comments? Opinions?

Well to conclude, I know you really dont like Sasuke but it doesnt mean hes not strong. I see lots of your examples show him barely failing/doing something against top tiers, as well as you exaggerate them. Just because someone loses to a really high level top tier opponent it doesnt mean they suck at all. Absolute 0 demerit for things like that.

Anyway I hope after you read this you can hate Sasuke all you want but please consider him a bit stronger hopefully I swayed your opinion even the tiniest bit. Sasuke is obviously 1 of the stronger characters if his obvious obvious techniques & abilities in battle dont show that but hey, nobody cant be influenced by who they think is a horrible character some times.

tl;dr I agree 100% op. Good Job.

[TheBlackChidori]

No one debated with me.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

No one debated with me.

I aint touching sharigan users with you man not again

we can debate about anything else any time anywhere but we had one argument regarding someone with magical eyeballs and ten hours later everything changed

I am a superstitious ol'fart aint repeat'n dat

[TheBlackChidori]

Do you have a link to that topic still?

[321zigzag3]

I will never understand the argument behind Deidara being not a speedster in Narutoverse relatively speaking and how deidara is actually slow.

[megabbaut]

Originally Posted by 321zigzag3

I will never understand the argument behind Deidara being not a speedster in Narutoverse relatively speaking and how deidara is actually slow.

The real question is why he is considered a speedster in the beginning. He just flies around on his birds.

[321zigzag3]

Speedster can be used as a relative term in gauging and comparative feats, hence why I said "relatively speaking."

He had no sleep for 3 days and drained, no left arm, encountered and escaped Kakashi and KN0 Naruto, the latter's brief thrashing.

Yet he was able to quite some time evade and outrun all of Team Gai.
Sure he said he couldn't keep it up for forever but thats saying something.

It also speaks volume to his reactions. Sure its not top tier at all but still better than far most in Narutoverse.

Perhaps speedster can be a wrong term if people see it differently in definition but Deidara if he were actually run he would be a high tier no doubt about it.

[colorles]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

Speed: You're gonna talk like Sasuke is slow. Sasuke is easily one of the fastest characters in the series. He was managing to move around A and keep out of his range, and A had base reflexes that were on Minato's level. It took him going V2 to land a single hit on Sasuke.

Deidara was at a loss for how to counter his speed. Even as a kid, with no real training, he matched Haku's speed who had been training with Zabubza for years. He learned Rock Lee's speed in 3 weeks, and when the time-skip started, he was faster than anyone on Team Yamato by far. Anyone's speed looks crappy next to Raiton A, but Sasuke managed to survive it when A had every intention to destroy him. Sure A would have one that fought, but if Sasuke had full Susanoo and there had been no interference from Darui or Gaara or anyone else, it might have been different. Either way if Sasuke died, A would have been a giant Amaterasu flame.

Stamina: No one can doubt his stamina. An average day in the life of Sasuke.
Sasuke fights and destroys 100 stamina.
Sasuke fights and injures the Raikage.
Sasuke fights Gaara and other Jonin shinobi.
Sasuke fights Mei and managed to defend against her attack for a bit.
Sasuke gets jumped by Onoki.
Sasuke gets saved by Tobi for a few minutes, quick respite.
Sasuke fights Danzo, who has been collecting 1ups for years.
Sasuke wins thanks to a friend he can bite.
Sasuke gets attacked by Kakashi. Forms a Susanoo. Arrows him.
Sasuke gets attacked by Sakura, reacts.
Sasuke gets attacked by Naruto, matches his Rasengan with his Chidori.


Like... what??? That's stamina.


Genjutsu: Lacking sure, but when you compare it to Itachi and Shisui, who wouldn't be? He still had the Genjutsu prowess to overpower and reverse Orochimaru's ritual at 16. Orochimaru, a Kage-level shinobi who took on Hiruzen. His resistance is his best feat. Call it zomg anger plot, but he did it. Cry about it.

Ninjutsu: Probably the biggest variety of Ninjutsu in the series.
Ridiculous fire style, strong enough to melt mountainsides like against part 1 Naruto, and heat the atmosphere to the point of using Kirin.

Then there's Kirin, which managed to topple the mountain the Uchiha hideout was on and took Itachi's full Susanoo to block.

He has Amaterasu and can manipulate the shape and trajectory of the flames, making him even better than his brother, and the only one to dodge that is A after he has already seen the move in action and has his Raiton armor completely up.

A chidori spear which can reach flying opponents, opponenta 50 meters away, or even mow down a group of opponents. Like for serious, it's a bar of pure electricity with the capabilities to pierce Orochimaru's heart before he can even react, and slice through Hachibi's tails.

He can fly if he would just use that Hawk more.

Oh. There's also that Susanoo thing. A defense that has kept him alive from 3 Kages now. It also shoots arrows faster than anything any Shinobi alive can react to without a special trick like Mokuton or Kamui. He can also keep his Susanoo up for loooong periods of time, and now that it's cloaked and armored and holding giant Amaterasu balls in his hand like it's a casual addition to his repartee, it's even better.

Intelligence: You say author wank, but Kishi has been saying Sasuke was a genius since the beginning. Back when Kakashi said it, Guy said it, Lee said it, Hiruzen said it, the proctor said it, Orochimaru said it, Kabuto said it, and this was in Part 1. Sasuke has just had a wider variety of teacher than anyone, his skills are unorthodox. Think about it, his first teacher was his father. Then the academy. Then came Kakashi. Then a drastic change to Orochimaru. Then he learned things from Itachi. Now he has Tobi guiding him to new things. Meaning he has learned from all these amazing, high-tier Shinobi and progressed the style of all of them into his own.

He managed to fool Danzo, and I'm convinced Danzo's the smartest opponent he ever fought. Whether or not Kirin cured him, or Tobi got him away from the self-destruction, he fooled Danzo on his own.


But whatever. People say Author Wank because it's a character they don't like. But Naruto is a show about Author Wank. Wank gave Kakashi the Kamui after he was rendered obsolete by Akatsuki members. Wank helped Naruto win every fight he was in. Like really Naruto, you dug a hole with your clone against Neji? Really? This is a show about wank. Get used to it. Expect Kishi to wank him even MORE to make these last battles more entertaining, and personally, I can't wait to see.

hot sauce iz hot

[Nightmare Luffy]

Originally Posted by megabbaut

The real question is why he is considered a speedster in the beginning. He just flies around on his birds.

Im interested in your response Y U NO reply

[Kyūbi no Yōko]

He does have a lot of stamina, thanks to Kishi though.
--

Deidara : C4 KARURA !!!
Sasuke : easy.. Plot no Jutsu.

Also, at the fight vs. Itachi, didn't you see that Itachi let him win, did you also hear Zetsu (White or Black, I'm not sure) : that's not like Itachi, he wouldn't get fooled so easy - when Sasuke used the 2 rigged Shuriken.

Itachi would win easily, but let Sasuke win so Sasuke could go back to Konoha as a hero.

At his fight vs. Danzo, without Karin he'd lose.

Fight vs. A - if Gaara wouldn't have interfered, Sasuke would've been dead, basically A was ready to sacrifice his arm and leg to kill him, but Gaara just had to interfere for nothing.

Fight vs. Kakashi - he didn't wound Kakashi.

--
Let's be reasonable, Sasuke got most powers by Itachi, like the Amaterasu, also all he can use is Susano'o.

Also, Kishi's logic at Itachi vs. Sasuke was so bad.
We know that Lightning Armor provides very high speed (he dodged Juugo's attack at Curse Mark in point blank) and also dodged the Amaterasu (very lucky).

Sasuke hasn't got any armor, just normal speed yet he dodges Itachi's Amaterasu.
That's just so f**ked up.

--

Also, Karin was a big Stamina / Chakra provider to Sasuke.
Basically, if Karin wouldn't exist, neither would Sasuke.
But hey, it's Kishi's fault.

[Naruto the Sage of Life]

The perception regarding Amaterasu seems to be different depending on who you ask around here.
My interpretation of Amaterasu is that it does not exactly start right from Sasuke's Eye, in fact I believe that it actually starts a few feet away and that it then moves relatively slow. ( compared to it's instant hit at ?five feet? - ( not sure about the distance) away)

Point being that when Sasuke hit Danzo with Amaterasu it was an instance when Sasuke was close enough that Amaterasu would instantly appear and hit Danzo.
When A dodged Amaterasu he was far enough away that even though Amaterasu is able to instantly appear at a certain distance, he was still able to dodge because he merely dodged it when it was flying through the air.

Furthermore, saying Sasuke is weak is ridiculous.
While Sasuke is not kage level, I would put him at a level alittle below it. Which for a person his age is incredibly powerful.

Of course I agree that Sasuke does "suck" on many levels other than pure fighting skill.
He is an extremely confused child who doesn't even know what he want's to do.
He has basically spent his entire life being manipulated and is tired of it, however he doesnot even know how to go about exacting his revenge.

[Frost ninja]

Ammy doesn't fly through the air. Consequently to it's activation, he has to be looking at someone. This pretty much means anyone faster than his ability to percieve/keep track of can avoid it. With the sharingan thats not many people, but after spamming susanoo or other eye techs, it becomes drastically easier.

Is sasuke good? He makes for an interesting fight but it usually comes down to "Ammy" or "Susanoo" which, rightly enough, is the case for a lot of characters. Kirin is something I'm pretty sure most people agree isn't a feat for anyone but Hebi.

His stamina is crap, open and truthfully. Most people take the wrong image from 5 kage summit, acting as though it were one continuious activity when it was a fight with Mei, then getting saved by Zetsu after he was losing, again when Onoki was about to atomize him. He then went about fighting the Raikage whom in prime and V1 had reactions below minato, since Minato reacted and managed to get to B without too much effort. After Raikage went V2, he started outright blitzing everyone as to where Sasuke had to cover his susanoo defence in ammy to make up for his lack of reactions. After Raikage got Ammy on his arm, he still neck-chopped Sasuke with it and, to be honest, probably could've kept battering sasuke with ammy-infused punches but opted to chop his arm off for some reason. The Gaara got in the way and they all lobbed weak attacks, Sasuke caved the place in, then went about his way. It shows a little stamina, but really nothing at all impressive, even moreso that he lost every fight he took on in that place barring Mifune who didnt really do anything, and Danzo whom he overcome to varying degrees of "ok"-ness.

Also the deidara fight was nothing but plot. Literally nothing but. Sorry to say it.

Coming into the time-skip he was faster than an unexpecting Naruto and Sakura, but not faster than Sai. Chodori stream would naturally shread mukoton because of its earth-half iirc. Most of Sasuke's feats could be labeled under "plot" or "SvFL" in that he hadn't shown it since. To be fair though, Kabuto fight was pretty decent.

[Kananda]

Sasuke is not qualified as an Akatsuki leagued shinobi, that would mostly mean Kage capable. I'd say that any Akatsuki member could beat Sasuke. Deidara should have won, that was insanely staged. Itachi was sick and went easy on him. Sasori/Kisame/Kakuzu stomp. Pain stomp.

Most of you would think... Naruto beat Pain.. Sasuke beat Itachi. They are now getting so strong because they killed the two strongest people in the series. But Itachi was not all out and died to sickness in the end. Naruto is vastly superior to Sasuke. He can not beat a Kage, Akatsuki or Jinchuuriki.

[feltlikeposting]

lmao loved the part about throwing a piece of paper infront of you when you see sasukes eyes bleed.