Sage Mode Jiraiya vs. Killer Bee

[heroeking]

Originally Posted by Nightmare Luffy

Chapter 166, page 8. It cant even sink in such a small swamp(due to drugs).

In fact, Hachibi's no bigger than that snake you act like its a tiny snake, in reality its boss sized just like Hachibi.

Hachibi while spinning runs into a Cho Odama Rasengan, GG.

We don't have evidence of how big SOTU could be so we can't assume.

chapter 565 page 14. lol. The Hachibi is darn humongous.

Cho Odama Rasengan isn't doing anything to Bijuu Hachimaki. The Hachibi could tank Chou Odama Rasengan easily.

Nothing in Jiraiya's arsenal can hurt the full Hachibi except toad oil fireball.

[Nightmare Luffy]

Right, Amaterasu put him in intense pain, a slash of lightning cut off all his tails at 1nce, yet Im supposed to believe a mountain buster gets tanked easily? not buying it. I dont even think Jiraiya wins this and I'm not buying it.

Yes, Hachibi's boss sized, just like the snake, your point?

"My chakra is so miniscule I doubt my ability to perform a simple Kuchiyose. This swapm is so small, if only I weren't drugged." Yes Jiraiya who used an abundance of jutsu on top of kuchiyose with ease, has so little chakra he cant even perform one kuchiyose successfully and makes a swamp of that size, also calls it extremely small. What assumptions here are actually so illogical they cant be accepted, when a swamp that size sank half the size of the Hachibi anyway.

[heroeking]

Originally Posted by Nightmare Luffy

Right, Amaterasu put him in intense pain, a slash of lightning cut off all his tails at 1nce, yet Im supposed to believe a mountain buster gets tanked easily? not buying it. I dont even think Jiraiya wins this and I'm not buying it.

Yes, Hachibi's boss sized, just like the snake, your point?

"My chakra is so miniscule I doubt my ability to perform a simple Kuchiyose. This swapm is so small, if only I weren't drugged." Yes Jiraiya who used an abundance of jutsu on top of kuchiyose with ease, has so little chakra he cant even perform one kuchiyose successfully and makes a swamp of that size, also calls it extremely small. What assumptions here are actually so illogical they cant be accepted, when a swamp that size sank half the size of the Hachibi anyway.

Chou Odama rasengan isn't amaterasu.

When has chou Odama rasengan shown mountain busting ability?

When did a slash of lightning cut off all the Hachibi tails?

We have no evidence of how big SOTU could since the manga doesn't provide any.

Boss Summons are not always the same size.

Hachibi is 2nd Biggest beast in the manga besides Manda. SOTu isn't doing anything to it.

[Nightmare Luffy]

The 3rd Raikage cut off all of his tails with one single slash. Kishi said himself the power of it, I cant give sources since I dont remember them but I wouldnt waste my time lying about something Kishi didnt actually say.

Whats amaterasu burned through thats actually impressive? if anything it means Hachibi has really bad durability since Karin was lit and it did nothing to her, same with their samurai armor & to Nagato it was burning on him for a few minutes and his arm was just burned away a bit.

So for one jiraiya is drugged, for two everyone including Jiraiya himself is saying "this is small it can be bigger if I werent drugged", it already did sink something hachibi's size half way in small form, yet you still say it cant be bigger. This is really weird since its clearly possible but its usually this happens when you want killer bee to win despite everything for it being possible. Hey I want Killer bee to win too but Im not going to debate against the obvious and say since we havent seen the swamp being bigger on screen then its somehow invalid and not possible despite ir really really obviously being possible.

Second biggest besides manda? What about Gamabunta, ken, Hiro, Kyuubi, Juubi, Turtle Island, Manda 2, Katsuyu, Shukaku, these all rival each other in size Hachibi is a boss summon size, I think thats pretty obvious. Each time theyre shown every one is all around equal size, thats what we refer as boss size.

So a snake the size of manda in the first place who you admit is bigger than Hachibi is sunk half way yet you say Hachibi wont be sunk anywhere near half way not too mention you think the swamp is incapable of getting any bigger. Anyway as i said Im not even debating for Jriaiya but I think your quick jump to conclusions that bijuu dama ends the fight and thats that is ridiculous.

While you claim theres no hard evidence Yomi Numa could be any bigger despite literally every claim about it ever used was that it was too small due to Jiraiya being extremely held back, I can very easily say the same thing back. Suigetsu tanked the bijuu dama and hes far inferior to the rock hard sage mode that breaks chakra rods on contact, theres 0 evidence it can be any stronger or will doa nything to Jiraiya or that Hachibi will be able to even be in existence after a Cho Odama Rasengan from jiraiya.

And I repeat from my old post.

"My chakra is so miniscule I doubt my ability to perform a simple Kuchiyose. This swapm is so small, if only I weren't drugged." Yes Jiraiya who used an abundance of jutsu on top of kuchiyose with ease, has so little chakra he cant even perform one kuchiyose successfully and makes a swamp of that size, also calls it extremely small. What assumptions here are actually so illogical they cant be accepted, when a swamp that size sank half the size of the Hachibi anyway.

[heroeking]

Originally Posted by Nightmare Luffy

The 3rd Raikage cut off all of his tails with one single slash. Kishi said himself the power of it, I cant give sources since I dont remember them but I wouldnt waste my time lying about something Kishi didnt actually say.

Didn't happen. I know it didn't, that's why I asked you. Irrelevant unless you have proof.

Whats amaterasu burned through thats actually impressive? if anything it means Hachibi has really bad durability since Karin was lit and it did nothing to her, same with their samurai armor & to Nagato it was burning on him for a few minutes and his arm was just burned away a bit.

I never said amaterasu was impressive. Amaterasu burned through Jiraiya Toad Mouth Binding technique.

So for one jiraiya is drugged, for two everyone including Jiraiya himself is saying "this is small it can be bigger if I werent drugged", it already did sink something hachibi's size half way in small form, yet you still say it cant be bigger. This is really weird since its clearly possible but its usually this happens when you want killer bee to win despite everything for it being possible. Hey I want Killer bee to win too but Im not going to debate against the obvious and say since we havent seen the swamp being bigger on screen then its somehow invalid and not possible despite ir really really obviously being possible.

I say again. Firstly we have no evidence of how big it could get. Secondly even if it was twice that size, it still wouldn't be enough to sink the Hachibi.

Second biggest besides manda? What about Gamabunta, ken, Hiro, Kyuubi, Juubi, Turtle Island, Manda 2, Katsuyu, Shukaku, these all rival each other in size Hachibi is a boss summon size, I think thats pretty obvious. Each time theyre shown every one is all around equal size, thats what we refer as boss size.

Manda is the tallest. There's no need to assume we we can clearly see it. Manda is the tallest because it's a snake with a long body, so stand at it's very top would make his height increase.

So a snake the size of manda in the first place who you admit is bigger than Hachibi is sunk half way yet you say Hachibi wont be sunk anywhere near half way not too mention you think the swamp is incapable of getting any bigger. Anyway as i said Im not even debating for Jriaiya but I think your quick jump to conclusions that bijuu dama ends the fight and thats that is ridiculous.

That snake which was sunk wasn't manda. TBB does end this fight. Unlike Oro, Jiraiya has no way of blocking it.

While you claim theres no hard evidence Yomi Numa could be any bigger despite literally every claim about it ever used was that it was too small due to Jiraiya being extremely held back, I can very easily say the same thing back. Suigetsu tanked the bijuu dama and hes far inferior to the rock hard sage mode that breaks chakra rods on contact, theres 0 evidence it can be any stronger or will doa nything to Jiraiya or that Hachibi will be able to even be in existence after a Cho Odama Rasengan from jiraiya.

Suigetsu was water based. Jiraiya hasn't shown the durability to tank a full TBB on. lol. Chou Odama Rasengan killing the Hachibi. lol. What are you smoking?

And I repeat from my old post.

In white.

[Uchiha Sora]

^Chou Oodoma rasengan was said to hollow out a mountain. And if you compare the size/explosion ratio of Giant Rasengan to Chou Oodoma rasengan, then hollowing out an average sized mountain is definitely possible. You can fit literally 50+ Giant Rasengan in the Ultra Giant Rasengan..

[heroeking]

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Sora

^Chou Oodoma rasengan was said to hollow out a mountain. And if you compare the size/explosion ratio of Giant Rasengan to Chou Oodoma rasengan, then hollowing out an average sized mountain is definitely possible. You can fit literally 50+ Giant Rasengan in the Ultra Giant Rasengan..

Chp. and page?

You guys seriously don't know how big the Hachibi is. The Hachibi now is even bigger than it was when fighting Sasuke.

[Uchiha Sora]

^377 page 13 for Ultra Giant Rasengan
261 Page 1 for Giant Rasengan.

Giant Rasengan is the size of Naruto's head, not including his hair.
Naruto and Preta's heads should be around the same size, and Preta's head looks like a pea compared to UGR.

[NagatoGod_of_Pain]

A chopped off the 8-Tails' horn. Pa's water gun has shown to cut through metal pipes and Boss summonings already.

The 8-Tails' skin isn't immune to acid. The 6-Tails already showed that. Ma has a tongue that shoots out acid.

The 8-Tails was shown to be hurt by fire (Amaterasu). Amaterasu is clearly NOT as hot as the sun as Karin survived with a barely burnt back. It's just a fire jutsu that doesn't go out until the victim is completely disintegrated. Jiraiya has plenty of amplified fire jutsu because of Sage Mode and oil from Gamabunta.

A drugged Jiraiya that could barely even do a summoning jutsu managed to make a Swamp bigger than a Boss-size summoning. We've seen how much Sage Mode greatly amplifies a jutsu. The Rasengan was shown to be hundreds of times bigger. Think of how big a Sage Mode-induced Swamp can be.

I already pointed out that SM Jiraiya had better speed feats than V2 Killer B.

[Nightmare Luffy]

The guys above gave pretty good descriptiosn and comparisons, I didnt give page numbers about the sizes/specifics of the rasengan but if you go back they create huge craters like I remember Minatos huge crater rasengan was just basic sized around chapter 502. Anyway I just assumed you read the manga and dont downplay their power. Good job guys I would have posted sooner but you guys had to ninja me lol.

Didn't happen. I know it didn't, that's why I asked you. Irrelevant unless you have proof.

The best I can do is swear on my own life that Kishi said it himself and I saw sources before, Im way too lazy to seriously sift through my history from months ago to find this for you, believe it or not if you want to Im not going to force you.

But at least for powerscaling if thats the right word for this, a regular rasengan is capable of busting a huge crater in the ground easy. a really small rasengan does the same, a fairly bigger rasengan is akin to being hit by a meteorite(also said by Kishi) and as displayed by Itachi balsted another huge crater in the ground.

4 rasengan at once explodes and sends you flying @ high speeds like no other making literal gigantic holes all through your body which is certain kill obviously, including the body thats going so fast that it hits the ground smahes through boulders.

Idk, i'd say one that's 100 times that size that actually kicks up dirt on the ground as it hovers like a helicopter would do really significant damage. Especially when going along with Kishis claim but you wont accept that despite it being the real author saying it.

So let me guess, since we didnt see the rasengan explode a mountain on screen despite the creator of the jutsu and writer of the manga, AKA word of god saying it explodes a mountain, its not possible? I guess you know more than the creator of the manga but ok.

I never said amaterasu was impressive. Amaterasu burned through Jiraiya Toad Mouth Binding technique.

It actually burned through a part that wasnt fully covered in toad with the window and thats where they got out so its not as good evidence. Plus that was Itachis just in case it means something. chapter 148 pages 4/6 for reference.

I say again. Firstly we have no evidence of how big it could get.

So the person who makes, again, an abundance of jutsu on top of multiple variations of kuchiyose with ease as well as his own Yomi Numa, in another situation he cant evendo one kuchiyose and he still created a swamp that big. At that he says its so small and you think we cant just assume? As I said what logical evidence do you have that actually disproves the swamps ability to be much much much bigger? Of course theres none because it obviously can be much bigger.

Secondly even if it was twice that size, it still wouldn't be enough to sink the Hachibi.
Manda is the tallest. There's no need to assume we we can clearly see it. Manda is the tallest because it's a snake with a long body, so stand at it's very top would make his height increase.

What that snakes boss sized, sure if he was standing up he'd be bigger but that snake was the same sized. It sank that snake mostly, when it was coiled in the theme of a "barrel roll". Despite the meme thats how it was lying and it was still sunk that deep into the swamp, its called swamp of the underworld for a reason. Thats an extremely small swamp, that snake was easily the size of Hachibi. What exactly cant we assume here it doesnt matter how much bigger when Jiraiya shows the capabilty to make it 20 imes that size if need be.

Ok heres support, on the page you provided Orochimaru was standing on the snakes head as you can see that dot is Orochimaru. Go a couple pages back for proof of that since he's so small in comparison to the Hachibi sized snake its hard to tell. At the end of chapter 169 Orochimaru summons Manda and pages later and on that page you can clearly see theyre the same sized. Actuall on page 17 Jiraiya even doubts his ability to summon a kuchiyose despite already! summoning a swamp that size, and calling it extremely small. He acted like that snake was tiny compared to what he could sink if he wanted, his intention was to sink it entirely.

Also read the rest of the chapter, Jiraiya and Orochimaru had a small skirmish on top of the snake & it could fit as an entire battlefield due to the size. Now stop denying the obvious and claiming its not anywhere near Hachibis size, I can guarantee that you know for a fact it is.

That snake which was sunk wasn't manda. TBB does end this fight. Unlike Oro, Jiraiya has no way of blocking it.

Ok, suigetsu tanked it and we cant just assume, a simple chidori put him out of commission and Jiraiya can take a chidori without dying. So we cant just assume so can I have evidence of its power, just because its a huge blast doesnt mean its as powerful as you say. The snake doesnt have to be manda to be a boss sized snake have you really payed attention to the sizes? I know you have payed attention and thanks to my proof above if you didnt know before you know now so this really puzzles me, because its extremely obvious whats correct here but youre arguing against the obvious forpretty obvious reasons.

Suigetsu was water based. Jiraiya hasn't shown the durability to tank a full TBB on. lol. Chou Odama Rasengan killing the Hachibi. lol. What are you smoking?

Okay, bijuu dama doesnt rely on being physical shouldnt it just vaporize if its as strong as you say? Of course it didnt, Im just going to ignore if you think Jiraiya has crap durability he actually has one of the highest. I know since again, you want killer bee to win theres no way youll admit how good Jiraiyas durability is or anything thats extremely common sense to pretty much anyone else. I think Killer Bee wins too but again, why deny the obvious about that.

You say he cant tank a full bijuu dama but I havent seen any testament of its power from you so who am I to assume it can even really kill a fly? I mean Im just asking these questions and going off and telling you this stuff, I really find your not well thought assessment of the fight silly even though I think Killer Bee wins myself. At the very least if youre gonna say bijuu dama rapes easy, then dont deny the obvious like Jiraiyas ability to make his swamp bigger when literally everything and everyone would tell you its possible. I know you would too if you werent too focused on making killer bee win.

Actually after all this I might start thinking Jiraiya wins with a slight edge despite my total fanboyism for KB, I see its much harder for KB to win than I originally thought despite the fight being so close already. Of course I never htought bijuu dama raped so easy but we're entitlted to opinions.

[heroeking]

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Sora

^377 page 13 for Ultra Giant Rasengan
261 Page 1 for Giant Rasengan.

Giant Rasengan is the size of Naruto's head, not including his hair.
Naruto and Preta's heads should be around the same size, and Preta's head looks like a pea compared to UGR.

I was talking about the mountain busting ability.

[Nightmare Luffy]

That was said by Kishi himself, well Im not gonna go into it again since you posted before you saw my post, that covered it.

[Uchiha Sora]

@Heroking, i think it was in the Databook. but the size comparison pretty much proves that statement. 50+++ times bigger, plus pumped with sage chakra. Imagine if he put even more chakra into it.

[Nightmare Luffy]

Oh serious? yeah, I thought it was from an interview or something, if its from the databook I can easily get the sources for him & Ill drop him a PM with the serious proof directly from the databooks. If it was from something else specific I had really no way of finding it, thanks for saying.

Well anyway theres no actual proof that this is real, until I send a PM but unless youre really really despeerate I doubt it would be argued against. Just thought I would paste the part of in the DB that describes it.

The Rasengan is wildly rotating chakra in one's hand and containing it in a sphere. The Odama Rasengan uses an increased quantity of chakra between the hands of the real body and a Shadow Clone. Sage Mode Jiraiya adds natural energy to this, rapidly increasing the size to gigantic proportions! The created ball of light is a raging storm, coiling like a whirlpool. If it explodes, it can easily hollow out an entire mountain!

I can get the rasengan, odama rasengan ones and whatever else too I can really get anything. I dont think its that hard to confirm this though or find them yourselves :P

on an unrelated note, Ive seen something like the following before & Its really funny to me, when people seriously try and argue against stuff thats in the databooks like they know more than the author.

[heroeking]

Originally Posted by Nightmare Luffy

The guys above gave pretty good descriptiosn and comparisons, I didnt give page numbers about the sizes/specifics of the rasengan but if you go back they create huge craters like I remember Minatos huge crater rasengan was just basic sized around chapter 502. Anyway I just assumed you read the manga and dont downplay their power. Good job guys I would have posted sooner but you guys had to ninja me lol.The best I can do is swear on my own life that Kishi said it himself and I saw sources before, Im way too lazy to seriously sift through my history from months ago to find this for you, believe it or not if you want to Im not going to force you.

Irrelevant as stated before.

But at least for powerscaling if thats the right word for this, a regular rasengan is capable of busting a huge crater in the ground easy. a really small rasengan does the same, a fairly bigger rasengan is akin to being hit by a meteorite(also said by Kishi) and as displayed by Itachi balsted another huge crater in the ground.

chapter 250 page 11 is how big Naruot' kyuubi enhanced crater is. Even with powerscaling it still isn't enought to seriously hurt the Hachibi let alone kill him.

4 rasengan at once explodes and sends you flying @ high speeds like no other making literal gigantic holes all through your body which is certain kill obviously, including the body thats going so fast that it hits the ground smahes through boulders.

Rasengan doesn't leave holes, it leaves craters as shown every time he uses it. It created a crater on Kabuto's stomach, a crater on 30% Itachi.

Idk, i'd say one that's 100 times that size that actually kicks up dirt on the ground as it hovers like a helicopter would do really significant damage. Especially when going along with Kishis claim but you wont accept that despite it being the real author saying it.

Stop trying to quote stuff If you have no proof of it.

So let me guess, since we didnt see the rasengan explode a mountain on screen despite the creator of the jutsu and writer of the manga, AKA word of god saying it explodes a mountain, its not possible? I guess you know more than the creator of the manga but ok.

Stop trying to quote stuff If you have no proof of it.

It actually burned through a part that wasnt fully covered in toad with the window and thats where they got out so its not as good evidence. Plus that was Itachis just in case it means something. chapter 148 pages 4/6 for reference.

So the person who makes, again, an abundance of jutsu on top of multiple variations of kuchiyose with ease as well as his own Yomi Numa, in another situation he cant evendo one kuchiyose and he still created a swamp that big. At that he says its so small and you think we cant just assume? As I said what logical evidence do you have that actually disproves the swamps ability to be much much much bigger? Of course theres none because it obviously can be much bigger.

What are you talking about? Jiraiya summoned Gambunta in the three sannin fight. I've also already addressed this. Even if was 2x bigger, it still wouldn't be enough to sink the Hachibi.

What that snakes boss sized, sure if he was standing up he'd be bigger but that snake was the same sized. It sank that snake mostly, when it was coiled in the theme of a "barrel roll". Despite the meme thats how it was lying and it was still sunk that deep into the swamp, its called swamp of the underworld for a reason. Thats an extremely small swamp, that snake was easily the size of Hachibi. What exactly cant we assume here it doesnt matter how much bigger when Jiraiya shows the capabilty to make it 20 imes that size if need be.

That snake WAS NOT the size of the Hachibi. That snake wasn't even Manda. Chapter 166 page 7. Look at Naruto at that snakes mouth. Chapter 566 page 8, 9. Look at Naruto on the Hachibi's Nose.

Ok heres support, on the page you provided Orochimaru was standing on the snakes head as you can see that dot is Orochimaru. Go a couple pages back for proof of that since he's so small in comparison to the Hachibi sized snake its hard to tell. At the end of chapter 169 Orochimaru summons Manda and pages later and on that page you can clearly see theyre the same sized. Actuall on page 17 Jiraiya even doubts his ability to summon a kuchiyose despite already! summoning a swamp that size, and calling it extremely small. He acted like that snake was tiny compared to what he could sink if he wanted, his intention was to sink it entirely.

Posts above.

Also read the rest of the chapter, Jiraiya and Orochimaru had a small skirmish on top of the snake & it could fit as an entire battlefield due to the size. Now stop denying the obvious and claiming its not anywhere near Hachibis size, I can guarantee that you know for a fact it is.
Ok, suigetsu tanked it and we cant just assume, a simple chidori put him out of commission and Jiraiya can take a chidori without dying. So we cant just assume so can I have evidence of its power, just because its a huge blast doesnt mean its as powerful as you say. The snake doesnt have to be manda to be a boss sized snake have you really payed attention to the sizes? I know you have payed attention and thanks to my proof above if you didnt know before you know now so this really puzzles me, because its extremely obvious whats correct here but youre arguing against the obvious forpretty obvious reasons.

chapter 566 page 2. Then look at the jinchurriki compared to tree sizes. Then Look at the Hachibi compared to the tree sizes.

Okay, bijuu dama doesnt rely on being physical shouldnt it just vaporize if its as strong as you say? Of course it didnt, Im just going to ignore if you think Jiraiya has crap durability he actually has one of the highest. I know since again, you want killer bee to win theres no way youll admit how good Jiraiyas durability is or anything thats extremely common sense to pretty much anyone else. I think Killer Bee wins too but again, why deny the obvious about that.

TBB has mountain busting ability. chapter 414 page 7.

You say he cant tank a full bijuu dama but I havent seen any testament of its power from you so who am I to assume it can even really kill a fly? I mean Im just asking these questions and going off and telling you this stuff, I really find your not well thought assessment of the fight silly even though I think Killer Bee wins myself. At the very least if youre gonna say bijuu dama rapes easy, then dont deny the obvious like Jiraiyas ability to make his swamp bigger when literally everything and everyone would tell you its possible. I know you would too if you werent too focused on making killer bee win.

Above.

Actually after all this I might start thinking Jiraiya wins with a slight edge despite my total fanboyism for KB, I see its much harder for KB to win than I originally thought despite the fight being so close already. Of course I never htought bijuu dama raped so easy but we're entitlted to opinions.

Irrelevant.

[heroeking]

Originally Posted by Nightmare Luffy

That was said by Kishi himself, well Im not gonna go into it again since you posted before you saw my post, that covered it.

Still no manga references of mountain busting ability. You makes claims and glorify them with no evidence whatsoever.

[heroeking]

Originally Posted by Nightmare Luffy

Oh serious? yeah, I thought it was from an interview or something, if its from the databook I can easily get the sources for him & Ill drop him a PM with the serious proof directly from the databooks. If it was from something else specific I had really no way of finding it, thanks for saying.

Well anyway theres no actual proof that this is real, until I send a PM but unless youre really really despeerate I doubt it would be argued against. Just thought I would paste the part of in the DB that describes it.

I can get the rasengan, odama rasengan ones and whatever else too I can really get anything. I dont think its that hard to confirm this though or find them yourselves :P

on an unrelated note, Ive seen something like the following before & Its really funny to me, when people seriously try and argue against stuff thats in the databooks like they know more than the author.

Also debating rules don't allow databooks.

[heroeking]

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Sora

@Heroking, i think it was in the Databook. but the size comparison pretty much proves that statement. 50+++ times bigger, plus pumped with sage chakra. Imagine if he put even more chakra into it.

Refer back to my other post from the other guy.

[heroeking]

Be back tomorrow to counter other post.

[megabbaut]

Heroeking, you should probably merge your posts so that you don't get in trouble for multi posting. Anyways, Goemon should give KB problems.