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Old 11-24-2011, 05:32 PM   #41
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

What magical defensive Jutsu does Naruto have that can block the Shinra Tensei he used on Konoha?
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:38 PM   #42
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

Well you said yourself that the real Naruto would probably survive the blast
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:42 PM   #43
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

Not without severe damage. That is a city busting attack. Naruto has never tanked something that huge.
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:43 PM   #44
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

What about his clone surviving the meteor? You have to realize how weakened Pein will be when he does this, his 5 other paths would be destroyed, and his powers temporarily gone
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:52 PM   #45
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

That was thanks to the rubber guy. Naruto woulda been screwed without his help.
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:54 PM   #46
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

CST just seems like a large range ST to me, probably why he flew into the air to do it, so the force would press down on Konoha instead of sending others flying
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:57 PM   #47
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

I did not imply anywhere, that I had believed Rinnegan does not use chakra. I had simply said the techniques of the rinnegan did not cost chakra. These attacks do not matter however as all the paths were easily destroyed by a single Naruto(who is, much weaker than this Naruto).

Now here is where you are mistaken, TheBlackChidori. They are of course, Shadow Clones. Since when is, after they "poof" their limit? Naruto is now limited to single and is no longer able to make Shadow Clones? And ignoring that he can use Sage Mode entirely?

Fukasaku, Shima, the toads and Katsuyu, do not help. You continuously repeat Katsuyu was feeding him knowledge, that's just great for this superior Naruto, as he now has full knowledge thanks to her. This holds true little relevance now, much more knowledge than last time in fact and will only help Naruto more because he can pick out and effortlessly destroy the paths. Just like last time, though this time Naruto is still, plenty stronger than said Naruto.

Naruto had already weakened his chakra supply by plenty if that is what you would call creating Shadow Clones, splitting his chakra down to about eight percent if my math is correct, creating a dozen clones. Though eight percent Naruto, is still, as I said before. Capable of creating hundreds of ultra sized Rasengan, a clone's clone(who must be easily 4% chakra) was capable of an ultra sized rasengan easily, without the use of Sage Mode. Naruto was capable of multiple Rasengan, Rasenshuriken, Planet Rasengan, he defeated two Kageand only then was a single clone exhausted. Yes, a single clone defeated two Kage.

"He" is currently begging Tsunade? No, this is a shadow clone, and after performing all I listed, only then was that clone's chakra depleted, yes, after defeating 2 Kage. I do not see what part of superior taijutsu, and Nine Tails form that he did not have last time you do not understand here. "He" would already be destroyed, yes after defeating 2 Kage, creating hundreds of massive rasengan despite a single rasengan supposedly so exhausting, all with a fraction of his chakra, only then would he "be destroyed", yet it is simply a Shadow Clone.

Clone, is not simply a one time thing. You are stuck believing that these dozen Kage level ninja all are defeated with one attack whilst only the real Naruto stands a chance. Not only do they have quite decent durability actually(will elaborate momentarily), though Naruto can simply create them again. After that large Shinra Tensei, Nagato should be quite exhausted, a simple kill from this point.

You yourself, conceded that Chibaku Tensei would be destroyed, this is irrelevant. Before Minato had appeared, the eight tails had already broken out of Chibaku Tensei, so this is also irrelevant. As you are claiming, he had him pinned to the ground. Yes, let us reflect on the facts. Naruto had effortlessly destroyed each and every other path beforehand. Naraka Realm revived Preta Realm at the last second, Naruto again effortlessly destroyed him. Deva used a shinra tensei(which did mostly nothing I'll note) to the Naruto about to kill Preta Realm the second time to save him. Then, Deva Realm uses Bansho Tenin and Preta catches him, proceeds to use his knowledge to his advantage and destroy Preta Realm again.

This Bansho Tenin, is the only shot he has, any hope at all. Especially according to you as you keep keying on in "Naruto was defeated, pinned to the ground". The only way the Pain would be able to do so is with this attack. Unfortunately, you are forgetting a few main important- this is not, a single Naruto. This is twelve, Kage Level fighters. Not only this, they all have chakra arms, and the ability to resist the bansho tenin/shinra tensei unlike Sage Mode Naruto. Now, this Sage Mode Naruto already, did so well against Pain. Unfortunately for Nagato, the Sage Mode Naruto who had already defeat Pain, would lose to a simple clone of this Naruto, and quite fortunately for this Naruto he is capable of twelve of them.

You honestly expect Nagato to defeat 11 kage level fighters simultaneously? We see what just two Kage is capable of against Madara, this is not a one-on-one fight as you seem to believe. There is twelve here. Nagato won't simply be fighting one Naruto in taijutsu, he will be occupied with eleven others as well. A single Naruto, already effortlessly destroyed, all six paths. This time, there is easily one Naruto to match up against each path, almost two Naruto handling a single path despite one Naruto defeating them all, this is simply unbelievable. Naruto is able to continuously make Shadow Clones this is a given, they do not only have one life I will note. After he exhausts all of Kyuubi's chakra, he is also able to fight as the real Naruto, using his own chakra this time, essentially one entire other Naruto. I must be resorted to believe there is no possible way you actually believe that Nagato can win this fight, I do not know why you will not say so yourself however.

Now here, you claim Nagato 'trolling' Nine Tailed Naruto. This is where, my eyes truly opened wide, you seem to be ignoring everything I have been arguing so far. Understand this, it is not one simple Naruto, there are twelve! Twelve of the Naruto that had fought Nagato already. Twelve people, who are already, superior to the version of Naruto that destroyed each of Pain's paths alone, without a problem! How can you honestly say, when there is well enough clones to almost have Two entire of these high leveled Naruto's covering each path despite one Naruto defeating them all, that Pain will win this?

I am doing nothing of the sort, I have told you what Naruto had accomplished during all this, which is still merely a fraction of his chakra. You can list the jutsu Nagato is capable of, but no ninja sadly, is able to stand against 11 Kage Level Ninja, especially a Kage Level ninja, that someone weaker than said Kage level ninja, already had basically defeated the person in question. To believe otherwise simply puzzles me. To be honest I love Nagato as well, but even I would not argue for him in this situation, unless there is another reason rather than being a fan. In that case, all I can say is for you to actually pay attention to these posts, as I have seen you must have missed the main points as you've still continued to argue things such as "Nagato beat Naruto already".

Now before I post this, I will simply key in on this fact.
Think of it this way, two Sage Mode Naruto fighting Pain, with full knowledge, may sound like a challenge. I mean, Naruto did so well the first time, this time there's TWO! It's insane on a whole other level, Pain would definitely get beat considering all the paths, were destroyed within second thanks to a single Naruto. There's TWO this time!

Now, double two and you have four. Can you imagine the power of four simultaneous Naruto? Yes, quite crazy. I key in on this because when I say twelve, you may not understand how much that truly is when thinking about teamwork, and fighting in this fact. Yes, they are all shadow clones, but the fact each one capable of defeating 2 high leveled Kage and use hundreds of car-sized rasengan means nothing? Not to mention, a few dozen clones of past Naruto were able of withstanding a shinra tensei.

Now after all this, we say there would be twelve Naruto fighting Pain, how insane would this be? Well, to add onto this. The only reason you could consider Pain "win" against this Naruto, is due to bansho tenin. This Naruto? He actually has a counter to this, not to mention more knowledge than the single Naruto that beat him before.

So, to add on further, each of these twelve Naruto, is superior to Sage Mode Naruto! I hope my emphasis on these numbers has really cleared things up however. Really hope you may reconsider things after all this, I simply cannot understand how Nagato stands a chance in this fight.

And I do not think I ever will, for it is simply outstanding for me to ever think to believe that Nagato is capable of defeating twelve of the ninja, who already had defeated all of his paths with really, zero effort in the past, while that was simply one Naruto.
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Old 11-28-2011, 05:45 AM   #48
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

Anything, TheBlackChidori?
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:38 PM   #49
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

Why is everyone bringing out CST? It requires prep and Naruto isn't going to just stand there while Nagato makes the gravity ball.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:32 PM   #50
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bard Image View Post
Anything, TheBlackChidori?
Thought I said earlier I was done?

I know your argument - clones. Not interested.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:03 PM   #51
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

You did not, your last response was in debate. There is no need to get angry though, I have said myself Nagato is one of my favorite characters. I just cannot see him winning to Naruto. I suppose I will take this as a concession then, as the basic idea here is, if you can counter, why do you not?

Now the reason I accept it as you also agree Naruto wins now, is that you cannot counter yourself. As I said, I understand you are a Nagato fan as am I, but hopefully your lack of response means you have finally looked at this match-up logically.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:16 PM   #52
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bard Image View Post
You did not, your last response was in debate. There is no need to get angry though, I have said myself Nagato is one of my favorite characters. I just cannot see him winning to Naruto. I suppose I will take this as a concession then, as the basic idea here is, if you can counter, why do you not?

Now the reason I accept it as you also agree Naruto wins now, is that you cannot counter yourself. As I said, I understand you are a Nagato fan as am I, but hopefully your lack of response means you have finally looked at this match-up logically.
At what point did he concede Negato cannot win?

He stated your argument was clones, when he debated they were not strong enough to destroy CT.

Nothing in his post suggests he was angry.

There is no need for you to award yourself a win. Nobody cares about your ego problems or need to consistently win fictional debates. Seek help in that department.

To follow, When someone doesn't counter it's because
1. They don't like you
2. They are waiting for more features via manga
3. They don't care anymore
4. They're smart enough to know the debate is useless

You've done this multiple times to me, and now you do it to another debater. You are in no way superior to anyone else on here, nor have I seen a debate where you've actually convinced someone enough to win.

Leave out 2/3 of the post where you tell someone to calm themselves, the fact they didn't counter means you win, and that the character they debated to win is also one of your favorite characters. Then adding on a "You've finally looked at this match-up logically" to end it. That was so disrespectful.

Not sure where you came from, but typing two paragraphs for a victory speech insulting the logic of someone else who really showed no verbal aggressiveness is pretty D-baggy.

Last edited by Isoteen; 11-28-2011 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:18 PM   #53
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

^That
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:44 PM   #54
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoteen View Post
At what point did he concede Negato cannot win?

He stated your argument was clones, when he debated they were not strong enough to destroy CT.

Nothing in his post suggests he was angry.

There is no need for you to award yourself a win. Nobody cares about your ego problems or need to consistently win fictional debates. Seek help in that department.

To follow, When someone doesn't counter it's because
1. They don't like you
2. They are waiting for more features via manga
3. They don't care anymore
4. They're smart enough to know the debate is useless

You've done this multiple times to me, and now you do it to another debater. You are in no way superior to anyone else on here, nor have I seen a debate where you've actually convinced someone enough to win.

Leave out 2/3 of the post where you tell someone to calm themselves, the fact they didn't counter means you win, and that the character they debated to win is also one of your favorite characters. Then adding on a "You've finally looked at this match-up logically" to end it. That was so disrespectful.

Not sure where you came from, but typing two paragraphs for a victory speech insulting the logic of someone else who really showed no verbal aggressiveness is pretty D-baggy.
If what TheBlackChidori was doing was not anger I would call intruding into myself and his debate verily disrespectful, but regardless I will respond, as I see a lack of response as someone who is, very obvious of the definition of the word, avoiding.

I was not awarding myself a win. What happens in an argument? Is there not supposed to be a "Yes, you're right, Naruto wins" in the end? I am sorry Isoteen, but this is how a debate works, it does not go on forever until one person decides to never respond. As I have seen with my time here already I see you may not be used to this form of debate but, believe it or not they are supposed to end with a concession.

Not responding in an argument because you do not like someone is no excuse, generally considered that you lose if you do not respond for whatever reason other than you, well, to be simple, cannot. This is also called taking style over substance, possibly because the way the opposing argument was presented you may come to the conclusion they are a "douchebag", and for that reason you will not respond. This is faulty logic.

I would like direct quotes of said multiple times if you do not mind, if you have not responded in a match as I have said before that is what I assume. If you do not like me, do not care or realize the debate is "useless"(though I would like elaboration on what you could possibly mean), is no excuse to simply avoid responding.

"I'm done. Not interested." Does not seem angry to you? Though this is coming from someone who apparently is/was in the same position as TheBlackChidori so I can understand, was not exactly a victory speech as you claim. Considering he will not respond, I was enjoying the debate. I will also add on that Nagato is dead, there are no "features" that will make Naruto seem less strong, so that is also no excuse though he himself did not give one, other than what I will easily assume is simply, excuses as to not do so.

I do not understand why this site is so hostile, I simply come to have nice arguments and I have had them, though in the end, rather than simply admitting you cannot counter the opposition's points, or possibly if you do end up agreeing in the end, simply do not respond?

As I have said, you may not realize it but this is how debates work, you attempt to prove the other person wrong, if you do not respond you are not supposed to assume otherwise.

I have not either, been told of my ego before though as I've stated you may not realize how debates work, hence why you make think I have such a large one.

Despite all of this and especially TheBlackChidori's reluctance to simply say, "I cannot respond to these points, this was a good debate"(as well as his recent positive reputation addressed to me agreeing), even if he does not agree Naruto would end victorious, I still hope it had come through logically even though I feel I will not get a response or opinion on the actual debate as how his response had been delivered.

I would rather have this post be more addressed to him however, more so than you, Isoteen, as you've had quite your "random appearance". ^^
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Old 11-28-2011, 05:04 PM   #55
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

What I think you need to do is understand debating is working together to find a common consensus based on logic and evidence.

You didn't post evidence that states Naruto has the ability to destroy a CT Nucleus.

That was his beginning point. And I openly disagreed. But yeah, Naruto had help from a Menacing ball and a widespread Katon technique by Itachi. So it was a logical that maybe Naruto couldn't bust it.

I disagreed that with the fact Naruto could spam a lot more Rasenshurikens, and the CT Nucleus itself could probably be busted with only one Rasenshuriken, as it was probably overkill.

Doesn't prove it though. It's only a logical observation.

Nothing should have been discussed further.

IMO that entire debate was useless. Which is probably why he stopped.

Which somehow made you want to post a victory paragraph or two, which was both disrespectful and entirely illogical.

Narutoverse is not a 1v1 debating session. It is an open space for all to come and participate, add their spin, and their evidence on it. You cannot win, as this is not a battle.

Last edited by Isoteen; 11-28-2011 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 11-28-2011, 05:11 PM   #56
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

That was a point TheBlackChidori himself had already agreed that Naruto was capable of breaking, it was not exactly the point of my post however.

I do not see what was useless about it, he himself had his own responses, it was hardly Chibaku Tensei related.

I did not post about a victory, I pointed out his lack of response. Hopefully it was because he realized that Nagato loses, and simply cannot admit it, in that case at least I will be able to realize he's looked at it logically.

You have basically described debating on your first sentence yes, so what part of that includes avoiding responding simply because you do not like the other person or because you cannot respond to their points? Does that not mean when you've come to the conclusion that you claim debating is based upon, instead of refusing to respond, you should simply say, "I agree Naruto wins now"? What part of that is called a "victory speech" when you claim to believe the reason the other debater did not respond for the reason that they could not?

I would like some elaboration on this especially as you yourself had posted on relating to TheBlackChidori so, I could see you defending him as you could "feel his pain" or however I could word it, hopefully you know what I mean.

I also like to add I would rather discuss the match than drifting off-topic, however since TheBlackChidori is at the point he can no longer respond I do not think there is much else to discuss. Though I never quite understood this match actually being worth a debate in the first place.. Majority also rules yes, as I believe TheBlackChidori is just about the only one who actually attempted a debate on Nagato's side. ^^

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Old 11-28-2011, 05:32 PM   #57
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

"Working together" usually means you have mutual respect or interest in the individual you are debating the topic with. That's not always true, but you still have a choice.

If I don't like you I'm not going to further explain myself on a fictional website about how I think you're wrong.

It's a waste of time.

As for the "victory post" it was by all means an attempt on your part to seize victory after your greatest efforts.

There was no valid reason for you to post those two paragraphs, other than to give yourself an ego boost or to make it widely known the reason the user did not respond was because he could not counter, instead of he didn't care to.
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:37 PM   #58
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

There is one thing I got out of this debate and is that you got to respect Bard Image for trying to be a very good poster with constructive backup.

He sounds like a patient guy.
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Old 11-29-2011, 07:08 AM   #59
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoteen View Post
"Working together" usually means you have mutual respect or interest in the individual you are debating the topic with. That's not always true, but you still have a choice.

If I don't like you I'm not going to further explain myself on a fictional website about how I think you're wrong.

It's a waste of time.

As for the "victory post" it was by all means an attempt on your part to seize victory after your greatest efforts.

There was no valid reason for you to post those two paragraphs, other than to give yourself an ego boost or to make it widely known the reason the user did not respond was because he could not counter, instead of he didn't care to.
I have my reasons, such as the fact I would like TheBlackChidori to respond, I would not like him to simply avoid posting, rather than at least say so himself. It was a fun debate, I would not like to have it halted simply because someone will not respond, for whatever reason. Including the reason you seemingly ignored. I was not posting a victory speech, though you have your own opinions.
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Old 11-29-2011, 11:07 AM   #60
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Default Re: Naruto vs. Pain

Quote:
As it stands, I believe Naruto is capable of displaying the power to be far superior to Nagato. I just don't think he has done that yet, since the only damage his clones have really done is deflect the 3rd Raikages own attack, thanks to knowledge and Sage Mode.

So like I said, I want to wait and see what he can do.
Remember that?

This argument has gone back and forth since it started.

You: His clones can do this.
Me: No they can't.
You: Yes, they can.
Me: Maybe, but I doubt it.
You: Yes-huh.
Me: No. Let's wait and see.
You: Okay, but yes they can.


Got kind of tiring. Like I said, wait a few chapters. Naruto is currently in a fight and is likely to display all sorts of feats. For that matter, HE is fighting, not a clone.

Stop drifting off-topic with this as well.
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