Itachi vs. Naruto

[Devils Lawyer]

Naruto still dominates this fight in my opinion. The major reason why is Naruto's clones RM mode. One clone was strong enough to face Itachi and Nagato. I honestly don't see Itachi beating Naruto. Hitting him with genjutsu is a hard task indeed. Naruto speed and skill in base is about equal to kakashi. Without edo Itachi is in trouble.

[Isoteen]

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

Naruto still dominates this fight in my opinion. The major reason why is Naruto's clones RM mode. One clone was strong enough to face Itachi and Nagato. I honestly don't see Itachi beating Naruto. Hitting him with genjutsu is a hard task indeed. Naruto speed and skill in base is about equal to kakashi. Without edo Itachi is in trouble.

By strong enough you mean what exactly?

Because Itachi was easily countering RS Naruto, while Negato reacted to both Bee and RS Naruto. This was not a clone.

He clearly wasn't strong enough since Negato not only grabbed Bee, but was pulling Naruto's soul out while he he did so.

Aside from that, he did show some good reaction and speed by basically tossing the Rasenshuriken around the previous Raikage three times with chakra arms before he could no longer counter, striking him with it in the end.

Aside from that he crushed almost everyone he wanted except for Negato.

Itachi on the other hand, should be able to put him down with Genjutsu here.

I really think Naruto doesn't have a chance starting in base, since not only does he have to enter RS first, but also make clones afterwards. This clearly leaves time for Itachi to either completely interrupt the process or capture Naruto in Genjutsu if he's looking.

If Naruto looks down at the start then he might end up winning if Itachi doesn't decide to start spamming Amy at close range.

I recently re-read current manga chapters, and I forgot how powerful Itachi is.

[TheBlackChidori]

Naruto couldn't break Raiton Cloak, but you think he can break Yata Mirror + Susano'o?

I just can't be convinced of that.

And Naruto didn't have any clones made when he was fighting Nagato and Itachi, he was at full-form/full-power.

[Isoteen]

I don't really see Itachi allowing it to reach the point of full Susano.

Since all it takes really is eye contact, not even with MS. We saw this when he captured Bee in Genjutsu, the all so familiar crows.

Bee got out simply because the 8 tails intervened and clearly used his own chakra to release Bee.

I don't see Kyuubi doing this for Naruto.

My previous theories about him using clones were kind of baseless, since he really only used them to help the others, and never really doubled up on powerful opponents while in RS.

[TheBlackChidori]

Even if the Kyuubi does break him out, that split second of releasing Naruto is more than enough time for a BL Itachi to Amaterasu him.

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Isoteen

By strong enough you mean what exactly?

Because Itachi was easily countering RS Naruto, while Negato reacted to both Bee and RS Naruto. This was not a clone.

He clearly wasn't strong enough since Negato not only grabbed Bee, but was pulling Naruto's soul out while he he did so.

Aside from that, he did show some good reaction and speed by basically tossing the Rasenshuriken around the previous Raikage three times with chakra arms before he could no longer counter, striking him with it in the end.

Aside from that he crushed almost everyone he wanted except for Negato.

Itachi on the other hand, should be able to put him down with Genjutsu here.

I really think Naruto doesn't have a chance starting in base, since not only does he have to enter RS first, but also make clones afterwards. This clearly leaves time for Itachi to either completely interrupt the process or capture Naruto in Genjutsu if he's looking.

If Naruto looks down at the start then he might end up winning if Itachi doesn't decide to start spamming Amy at close range.

I recently re-read current manga chapters, and I forgot how powerful Itachi is.

You obviously didn't pay attention to the chapters Naruto was countering Itachi with ease . For the most part he was talking with Itachi trying to get answers. Contrary to the popular beleif Itachi was going all out. Not out of free will but Kabuto was making him go all out.

Also what does Itachi have exactly that can stop Naruto? Genjustu and ammy are easily countered by Naruto . His speed at max is beyond anything he showed in that fight. CT was just a great counter against that. Susanoo is way to slow to touch Naruto. Itachi would die of chakra exhaustion trying to attack Naruto. His fastest attack is about the same speed as frs. Itachi is out matched in the weapons department in this fight.

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

Naruto couldn't break Raiton Cloak, but you think he can break Yata Mirror + Susano'o?

I just can't be convinced of that.

And Naruto didn't have any clones made when he was fighting Nagato and Itachi, he was at full-form/full-power.

It doesn't matter Gaara already proved Susanoo can be countered by separating the user from it. Also there is still the whole Susanoo is painfully slow overall. As I mentioned above Itachi fastest attack is comparable to frs. You think Naruto can dodge it. Then Naruto already released a few kage level he clones before the fight. If he had that type of sucess after releasing that much power. He would most likely be performing way better healthy.

[Isoteen]

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

You obviously didn't pay attention to the chapters Naruto was countering Itachi with ease . For the most part he was talking with Itachi trying to get answers. Contrary to the popular beleif Itachi was going all out. Not out of free will but Kabuto was making him go all out.

Also what does Itachi have exactly that can stop Naruto? Genjustu and ammy are easily countered by Naruto . His speed at max is beyond anything he showed in that fight. CT was just a great counter against that. Susanoo is way to slow to touch Naruto. Itachi would die of chakra exhaustion trying to attack Naruto. His fastest attack is about the same speed as frs. Itachi is out matched in the weapons department in this fight.

I did pay attention. Not only did he counter RS Naruto.

He managed to flash behind Bee in quite a small amount of time.

Bee had to use a tentacle expansion to counter.

Aside from that, Itachi didn't even erupt Susano to counter Bee's attack, instead captured him in Genjutsu.

Unless you can prove Naruto can actually counter Genjutsu, then there's really no way he doesn't make eye contact with Itachi given his decorated features and speed.

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Isoteen

I did pay attention. Not only did he counter RS Naruto.

He managed to flash behind Bee in quite a small amount of time.

Bee had to use a tentacle expansion to counter.

Aside from that, Itachi didn't even erupt Susano to counter Bee's attack, instead captured him in Genjutsu.

Unless you can prove Naruto can actually counter Genjutsu, then there's really no way he doesn't make eye contact with Itachi given his decorated features and speed.

Doesn't matter Bee still kept up with him. They were all pretty much in the same speed range. But Naruto is pretty much faster he was holding back to a certain degree.

Actually he can counter genjutsu. He has been capable of defending against Itachi genjutsu for a minute. He attacks with clones the original isn't caught in the illusion. Not only that he has been taught not to lock eyes with Itachi or any other sharigan user. Genjutsu is a non factor in this fight.

[Isoteen]

What feature proves this?

Why does he use clones? he's never used them against any opponent in RS.

[TheBlackChidori]

I wouldn't say he was countering Itachi with ease, DL.

Itachi was only using Taijutsu, no Susanoo, Ammy, or Genjutsu at all. That's hardly going all out.

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Isoteen

What feature proves this?

Why does he use clones? he's never used them against any opponent in RS.

Go back over the Naruto vs Itachi clone fight. In chapter 259 Kakashi taught him how against to defend against Itachi sharigan genjutsu using clones.

Clones is and always will be Naruto's weapon of choice. Also yes he has used clones in RS. He has been using them to fight on Multiple war fronts in the war. That includes during the fight against Itachi and Nagato. He already launched a few to different fights. Itachi wasn't his only opponent he facing multiple opponents.

[Isoteen]

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

Go back over the Naruto vs Itachi clone fight. In chapter 259 Kakashi taught him how against to defend against Itachi sharigan genjutsu using clones.

Clones is and always will be Naruto's weapon of choice. Also yes he has used clones in RS. He has been using them to fight on Multiple war fronts in the war. That includes during the fight against Itachi and Nagato. He already launched a few to different fights. Itachi wasn't his only opponent he facing multiple opponents.

Nah he hasn't used them to double up on a single opponent.

Because he's way too over confident.

And Naruto having clones really doesn't defend him against it.

The Original technically still has to defend himself, by looking down he obviously puts himself in danger for being Amy'd.

Not that he would use clones anyway, because he considers himself a god.

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

I wouldn't say he was countering Itachi with ease, DL.

Itachi was only using Taijutsu, no Susanoo, Ammy, or Genjutsu at all. That's hardly going all out.

At ease meaning no extrodinary strain on Naruto part. But do you honestly beleive that ammy or genjutsu would have been a good decision in that fight. Naruto would have dodged ammy. Then with the 9 tails chakra he would have more than likely overpowered anything but Tsukiyomi. Even then if it weren't for the fact naruto was trying to get answers Itachi would never have a chance to land Tsukiyomi on him.

Originally Posted by Isoteen

Nah he hasn't used them to double up on a single opponent.

Because he's way too over confident.

And Naruto having clones really doesn't defend him against it.

The Original technically still has to defend himself, by looking down he obviously puts himself in danger for being Amy'd.

Not that he would use clones anyway, because he considers himself a god.

It's not really over confidence considering the fact he just about killed all of his opponents except for Madara.

You obviously don't know the concept of Naruto's clone. Considering the sharigan can't even tell which one is the original. Not only that he doesn't have to look down. He just have to avoid locking eyes.

God or not clones is his number 1 technique. He would use them. Especially in a fight to the death.

[TheBlackChidori]

But he wasn't going all out. All-out is when Sasuke was pounding Danzo and blitzing him with Susano'o. He was trading punches with them. Kabuto even left their spirits mostly in tact, and didn't bloodlust them like he did Zabuza.

Itachi isn't the type of fighter to win by trading Taijutsu blows with his opponent... look at how easily he countered Nagato.

[Isoteen]

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

At ease meaning no extrodinary strain on Naruto part. But do you honestly beleive that ammy or genjutsu would have been a good decision in that fight. Naruto would have dodged ammy. Then with the 9 tails chakra he would have more than likely overpowered anything but Tsukiyomi. Even then if it weren't for the fact naruto was trying to get answers Itachi would never have a chance to land Tsukiyomi on him.


It's not really over confidence considering the fact he just about killed all of his opponents except for Madara.

You obviously don't know the concept of Naruto's clone. Considering the sharigan can't even tell which one is the original. Not only that he doesn't have to look down. He just have to avoid locking eyes.

God or not clones is his number 1 technique. He would use them. Especially in a fight to the death.

Clearly the fight with Negato wasn't a fight to the death?

I guess the part where he was pulling his soul out really made Naruto want to summon clones.

How about when Negato used Chibaku Tensei?

At no point did he use clones to help himself.

It is nothing more than overconfidence.

Not to mention it's potentially lethal, and he knows it.

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Isoteen

Clearly the fight with Negato wasn't a fight to the death?

I guess the part where he was pulling his soul out really made Naruto want to summon clones.

How about when Negato used Chibaku Tensei?

At no point did he use clones to help himself.

It is nothing more than overconfidence.

Not to mention it's potentially lethal, and he knows it.

He didn't have enough chakra at the time to pull out another clone. Right after the fight he chaged back to normal. He wasn't at full strength during that fight.

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

But he wasn't going all out. All-out is when Sasuke was pounding Danzo and blitzing him with Susano'o. He was trading punches with them. Kabuto even left their spirits mostly in tact, and didn't bloodlust them like he did Zabuza.

Itachi isn't the type of fighter to win by trading Taijutsu blows with his opponent... look at how easily he countered Nagato.

What other form of combat does he have to go against Naruto? I mean Naruto is completely aware of how to counter genjutsu. Ammy would be a better weapon. But then that would be countered by Naruto's speed. Susanoo is the last card. But you know there is multiple reasons why it wouldn't work. Gamabunta and the other toads for one would be a hindrance against it. Countering them and Naruto would be a hard scenario for him to come out of.

[Isoteen]

What? He was at full strength, he didn't make a single clone before then.

[TheBlackChidori]

What other form of combat does he have to go against Naruto? I mean Naruto is completely aware of how to counter genjutsu. Ammy would be a better weapon. But then that would be countered by Naruto's speed. Susanoo is the last card. But you know there is multiple reasons why it wouldn't work. Gamabunta and the other toads for one would be a hindrance against it. Countering them and Naruto would be a hard scenario for him to come out of.

Susanoo isn't the last card, he is the best card. Naruto doesn't have moves like Gaara, he can't put sand under it and attack from within. And toad summons are useless here since Susanoo has a projectile weapon in Yata that is apparently as fast or faster then RS and Bijuu Bomb. None of the toads are evasive enough to dodge it, and they definitely have no chance of surviving it.

And if Naruto gets caught by a single Genjutsu, even a simple one that stops him for a split second, he cannot survive Totsuka.

[Kuromaki]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

Naruto couldn't break Raiton Cloak, but you think he can break Yata Mirror + Susano'o?

I just can't be convinced of that.

And Naruto didn't have any clones made when he was fighting Nagato and Itachi, he was at full-form/full-power.

Who said Naruto was going to try and break Susanoo? He already knows what it's capable of. Better if he tries to get Itachi out of it, either by pulling him out or tiring him out, or avoiding it.

Didn't he have clones elsewhere on the battlefield? The Naruto who fought them was the real him, but he wasn't at full chakra.

Originally Posted by Isoteen

My previous theories about him using clones were kind of baseless, since he really only used them to help the others, and never really doubled up on powerful opponents while in RS.

Because he wanted to spread them around the battlefield.

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

Even if the Kyuubi does break him out, that split second of releasing Naruto is more than enough time for a BL Itachi to Amaterasu him.

Itachis not BL.

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

Susanoo isn't the last card, he is the best card. Naruto doesn't have moves like Gaara, he can't put sand under it and attack from within. And toad summons are useless here since Susanoo has a projectile weapon in Yata that is apparently as fast or faster then RS and Bijuu Bomb. None of the toads are evasive enough to dodge it, and they definitely have no chance of surviving it.

And if Naruto gets caught by a single Genjutsu, even a simple one that stops him for a split second, he cannot survive Totsuka.

He can use clones arguably.

Yasaka Magatama hasn't been proven to be as fast as FRS or the bomb. They were timing their attacks, and either way, they were being pulled into the center of Chibaku Tensei with the same force.

A split second isn't enough time for Itachi to go to Susanoo and have the sword form right away right after using Genjutsu, unless he can use them simultaneously, which he hasn't ever done.

[TheBlackChidori]

You just said "None of that is proven" and "Clones".

And I think he made the clones after his run-in with Itachi and Nagato. I remember Itachi telling Naruto not to do everything himself. So yeah, he was full power.


This debate has always been back and forth.

But in the end, it comes down Itachi has 3 ways he can possibly take our Naruto... that being Ammy, Gen, and Susanoo.

On Naruto's end, his only advantage would be to create a clone army to launch FRS's from behind Susanoo, which could arrrguably break its defense but I doubt it since it couldn't break the 3rds. It took a Double-Kage Fusion Jutsu to break through Madara's Susanoo, and a Baku/Danzo combo to even pierce Sasuke's weak Susanoo.


And I don't know why people think Naruto was holding back even though he was questioning Itachi. I mean he had just ran into the two strongest opponents of his life, and he's gonna hold back? Doesn't make sense to me.