Spoiler Maybe Rinnegan is pure Uchiha?

[paradigm1977]

Has it been confirmed that Senju DNA is a must for the Rinnegan. Or do we assume this because Nagato has Senju DNA?

Madara might have stolen Hashirama's DNA, but how do we know it wasn't just for vitality and wood jutsu?

The eyes drain chakra from those who are not Uchiha. So the eye must be covered.

If it is not a fact that you need Senju DNA, then I propose an alternate theory.

What if Nagato was chosen to hold Madar's Rinnegan because he has immense chakra reserves. I get the feeling that it rivals Kisame or is better. Kisame is said to have the most chakra in Akatsuki. Or maybe that's the main fighting members, not the leader.

Maybe it's because Nagato could handle the chakra drain.We don't know how chakra reserves or potential compares directly. Naruto might be 10 times Kakashi's and 4 times Susake. But a little less than kisami and Nagato.

Nagato and Naruto have immense chakra, because of luck, but luck within a bloodline known for vitality.

Or perhaps Sunju isn't needed or not a part of forming sharingan, but unlike all other clans, the senju clan doesn't get drained at all. Because the eye senses similar DNA to Uchiha, which would be because of Rikudo.

[JazzJunkie4]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

What if Nagato was chosen to hold Madar's Rinnegan because he has immense chakra reserves. I get the feeling that it rivals Kisame or is better. Kisame is said to have the most chakra in Akatsuki. Or maybe that's the main fighting members, not the leader.

Maybe it's because Nagato could handle the chakra drain.We don't know how chakra reserves or potential compares directly. Naruto might be 10 times Kakashi's and 4 times Susake. But a little less than kisami and Nagato.

Nagato and Naruto have immense chakra, because of luck, but luck within a bloodline known for vitality.

Nagato was a little kid when he got it. Uzumaki or not, if the rinnegan does what you are suggesting then I highly doubt a little boy would be able to have that much chakra. Kisame had all of that chakra because he had semehada which supplies him with a surplus of chakra. Besides, Pain/Nagato said it himself that he has the most so he didn't mean "besides the leader". The reason why naruto has such a large amount of chakra is probably because suppressing the kyubi requires constant chakra suppression and therefore for his body to function properly it has to manufacture much more chakra than a normal shinobi (it also takes much more control). One can't really give an accurate figure on how much more someone's chakra level may be than another at this point, but I'm skeptical that nagato would be chosen because of a reserve of chakra.

[Phariah824]

Madara read the stone tablet in the Uchiha compound. he was seeking to gain power. you need sharringan to read first part, than ems, than rinnegan. he than went after Harishima's dna. Madara was the greatest Uchiha so if he needed dna he was gonna take it from the greatest Senju with out a doubt his ego wouldn't allow less. we know you need Senju + Uchiha to form Izanagi. which would than most likely allow the creation of Rinnegan.

he went after Nagato because the Uzumaki were realated to Senju. he had Senju dna. if you were experimenting and wanted a test subject a young Uzumaki would be great. especially if there were no Senju to do it with. he said he gave the rinnegan to Nagato. he must have added Uchiha dna or more likely used Izanagi to create it in him, or the possibility for it to form in him.

if it was pure Uchiha why wouldn't he develope it before he fought Harishima? also Nagato didn't just have the Rinnegan, they awakened first after his parents were killed, than his training w/ Pervy Sage, than when his friend died. each step awakened, strengthened, than awakened more of his eyes.

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by Phariah824

Madara read the stone tablet in the Uchiha compound. he was seeking to gain power. you need sharringan to read first part, than ems, than rinnegan. he than went after Harishima's dna. Madara was the greatest Uchiha so if he needed dna he was gonna take it from the greatest Senju with out a doubt his ego wouldn't allow less. we know you need Senju + Uchiha to form Izanagi. which would than most likely allow the creation of Rinnegan.

he went after Nagato because the Uzumaki were realated to Senju. he had Senju dna. if you were experimenting and wanted a test subject a young Uzumaki would be great. especially if there were no Senju to do it with. he said he gave the rinnegan to Nagato. he must have added Uchiha dna or more likely used Izanagi to create it in him, or the possibility for it to form in him.

if it was pure Uchiha why wouldn't he develope it before he fought Harishima? also Nagato didn't just have the Rinnegan, they awakened first after his parents were killed, than his training w/ Pervy Sage, than when his friend died. each step awakened, strengthened, than awakened more of his eyes.

We don't know that the Izanagi, which is fobidden is a part of obtaining the Rinnegan. I think you have to find the secret to unlocking it. I don't think that is what is on the tablet. It was a quest to learn. When Madara died he gave Tobi, his own Zetsu clone made from Hashirams DNA and the reason for the DNA, his Eyes. The Rinnegan does not have to always be on, as we have now found out from ET Madara. Tobi Genjutsued Nagato after killing Nagatos parents. Then he put in the eyes, and through mind control (even kabuto was stuck under Sasori's mind control) Nagato believed he killed the assassins and "awakened" his eyes. If you wondering how then Tobi could see, Zetsue could have assisted by previously removing the eyes and putting in the space/time jutsu eyes.

I'm thinking the eyes drain non Uchiha because it's like organ donation, no match. But they won't attack the Senju bloodline becasue they are related through Rikodu, and so the eyes accept them.

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by JazzJunkie4

Nagato was a little kid when he got it. Uzumaki or not, if the rinnegan does what you are suggesting then I highly doubt a little boy would be able to have that much chakra. Kisame had all of that chakra because he had semehada which supplies him with a surplus of chakra. Besides, Pain/Nagato said it himself that he has the most so he didn't mean "besides the leader". The reason why naruto has such a large amount of chakra is probably because suppressing the kyubi requires constant chakra suppression and therefore for his body to function properly it has to manufacture much more chakra than a normal shinobi (it also takes much more control). One can't really give an accurate figure on how much more someone's chakra level may be than another at this point, but I'm skeptical that nagato would be chosen because of a reserve of chakra.

I don't think you are correct on Kisame needing Sameda to have a large chakra pool. He has it anyway, and the sword adds more. Just like Naruto has lots of Chakra and the Kyubbi adds more.

I just came up with the why Nagato theory today, so I'm leaning towards he's chosen as an organ donor match for the eyes do to related DNA to Uchiha through Rikudo, not simply because of chakra pool. The pool might help in absorbing the tax on the body when casting this type of resurection spell. Like it could kill you if your body isn't strong enough and your chakra level reasonably high.

[JazzJunkie4]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

I don't think you are correct on Kisame needing Sameda to have a large chakra pool. He has it anyway, and the sword adds more. Just like Naruto has lots of Chakra and the Kyubbi adds more.

I just came up with the why Nagato theory today, so I'm leaning towards he's chosen as an organ donar match for the eyes do to related DNA to Uchia through Rikudo, not simply because of chakra pool.

Ya I just referred back to the manga and it turns out he does in fact already have a large supply of chakra in addition to semehada. Not surprising seeing how he's kind of a fish man.

[Paradoxal]

I don't think you need Senju DNA to enable your body to be compatible with a rinnegan. Maybe at the time they were just experimenting into trying to recreate the power of the sage of the six paths.

[calinarutoguy]

Nagato probably could handle it because Uzamaki's are known for large chakra reserves and long lives. However, for those who assume the rennengan didn't take a toll on Nagato because he wasn't an Uchiha, that may be a false assumption. Remember, Nagato's powers pailed in comparison to those of the Sage of Six Paths - that is probably because Nagato didn't have the ability or the genetic disposition to use the eyes as an Uchiha would.

Thus far, based on the asteroid ninjutsu by Madara by itself, you can already tell that Madara's rinnegan surpasses Nagato's rennengan. That's probably because, like Danzo and Kakashi, Nagato wasn't a natural dojutsu user - Madara, being an Uchiha, is, and thus why his Rennengan is more powerful.

[Phariah824]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

We don't know that the Izanagi, which is fobidden is a part of obtaining the Rinnegan. I think you have to find the secret to unlocking it. I don't think that is what is on the tablet. It was a quest to learn. When Madara died he gave Tobi, his own Zetsu clone made from Hashirams DNA and the reason for the DNA, his Eyes. The Rinnegan does not have to always be on, as we have now found out from ET Madara. Tobi Genjutsued Nagato after killing Nagatos parents. Then he put in the eyes, and through mind control (even kabuto was stuck under Sasori's mind control) Nagato believed he killed the assassins and "awakened" his eyes. If you wondering how then Tobi could see, Zetsue could have assisted by previously removing the eyes and putting in the space/time jutsu eyes.

I'm thinking the eyes drain non Uchiha because it's like organ donation, no match. But they won't attack the Senju bloodline becasue they are related through Rikodu, and so the eyes accept them.

if he didn't need Harishima's dna nor Izanagi to achieve Rinnegan, than why didn't he get the rinnegan before he battle Harishima? it would be the strategic and smart thing to do before battling Harishima.

also Tobi has only shown the ability to warp around, no genjutsu nor any mind control.

the fact is the Rinnegan was a KG of the Sot6P. it cannot be a pure Uchiha tech. to gain the genetic structure to achieve the Rinnegan you would need Senju and Uchiha dna. the Sage was not just Uchiha nor Senju, he was both. so the progression from EMS to Izanagi to Rinnegan has far more basis in known facts.

as ET Madara knew of Nagato, i would say giving him Rinnegan was most likely one of his last acts before dying, not something Tobi did.

[Paradoxal]

I think we need to know the prerequisites to awaken the rinnegan to tell any further.

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by Phariah824

if he didn't need Harishima's dna nor Izanagi to achieve Rinnegan, than why didn't he get the rinnegan before he battle Harishima? it would be the strategic and smart thing to do before battling Harishima.

also Tobi has only shown the ability to warp around, no genjutsu nor any mind control.

the fact is the Rinnegan was a KG of the Sot6P. it cannot be a pure Uchiha tech. to gain the genetic structure to achieve the Rinnegan you would need Senju and Uchiha dna. the Sage was not just Uchiha nor Senju, he was both. so the progression from EMS to Izanagi to Rinnegan has far more basis in known facts.

as ET Madara knew of Nagato, i would say giving him Rinnegan was most likely one of his last acts before dying, not something Tobi did.

You are suggesting he "just get it. (the Rinnegan)" We don't know how you get it, that's the point. You think someone could think on their own "hey brother, i bet if you give me your eyes, my new mengyeko will be eternal." no it's a secret, and why there aren't more of them. The secret leads those to assume you must add senju blood to Uchiha eyes to get the DNA of the Sage.

Also, Tobi chooses not to fight. Only with Hushina/Minato and Konan. Intangibility and warping means he never has to fight if he doesn't want to. Why waste the effort? Or maybe his chakra is limited, since he might be a zetsu clone.

Tobi used genjutsu on konan, that's how he found out where to find Nagato. He said he would use it to find out and then kill her. This explains why she isn't covered in blackflames in a millisecond. Or maybe he can't. But no proof either way. Accept it makes sense he wouldn't try.

And why can't the Rinnegan be pure Uchiha tech? The sharingan is. It makes more sense that Uchiha's get all the eye power. Like they were supposed to anyway.

Also, where is it said that the Rinnegan is a GK. He may not have been born with it. We just know he had it as an adult. So maybe a knowledge or circumstance was needed to unlock it. He could have been born with a shiringan for all we know.

"so the progression from EMS to Izanagi to Rinnegan has far more basis in known facts."

Izanagi is not an eye. It's still a jutsu and could not be part of a progression. We've seen Danzo use it. Are you saying Madara used it to escape Hasirama, and that links it to the Rinnegan? It doesn't. Madara lived past the birth of Nagato and died shortly after(1 hour to 1 month?) attaining the Rinnegan. According to him.

[Paradoxal]

That's my point that you're contradicting. Why are you asking us how to get the rinnegan when no one does and hasn't been explained yet in the manga, you're just jumping to conclusions.

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by Paradoxal

That's my point that you're contradicting. Why are you asking us how to get the rinnegan when no one does and hasn't been explained yet in the manga, you're just jumping to conclusions.

Not really. Your post was 7 minutes after mine. But I was writing mine before you posted.

So we agree, except I didn't ask anyone how he got the rinnegan.

I am presenting this thread so people don't rule things out to soon. And I think it is actually more viable than Needing Senju blood based on supposed facts.

Example: Madara did not die after fighting Hashirama. But it was believed he did. This suggests the need for Izanagi to achive the trick of excaping unnoticed. Yet supposedly you need Senju DNA to use it. Well how does he use the DNA he obtained in the middle of the fight? Rather than later on? He doesnt need a lab? forceps?....Can you hold flesh against an open wound?

On top of that, it also seems you need more than than adding DNA to activate the Rinnegan, otherwise it would have happened at the same time.

People are filling in the gaps and saying it's a fact.

[kalmeast]

Originally Posted by Paradoxal

That's my point that you're contradicting. Why are you asking us how to get the rinnegan when no one does and hasn't been explained yet in the manga, you're just jumping to conclusions.

Are you for real...what's the point of theories then?

anyways... at OP... I'd agree with you on some level. Even With strong Chakra like Sasuke Uchiha, it's impossible to spam the sharingan several times. as a matter of fact, tobi expressed how sasuke was over doing it. It's one thing getting blind from using MS, its another thing getting quickly drained from using MS. If MS does this to even the original Uchiha body, how much more a more powerful dojutsu such as the rinnegan. Of course an uchiha would have trouble wielding it effectively. Even if they are able to awaken it by themselves.

So i'd agree an additional senju dna is vital to wield the rinnegan more perfectly just like we know Hashirama's dna specifically helps wield even shisui's Koto amatsukami waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more effectively.

I personally believe Nagato was specifically chosen because he not only had a big time amount of chakra but he had the special/strong chakra as among the Uchiha and life-force similar to the senju.