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Old 10-12-2011, 06:00 PM   #1
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Talking In Defense of zerosameri

I in fact have a formal belief, that this Edo Tensei that appeared in Chapter 559, is the true, undoubted MADARA UCHIHA.
This, may make a large portion of the fanbase consumed with confusion on the fact that Tobi is not Madara.
But, it is not a fact, but mere speculation...

My personal idea, is that Tobi, was an attempt made by the true Madara to carry on his plans, for whatever reasons he had, may it be death, or a possible leave of absence. But, if he were to do so, he would have to implant his own mind process into such a being. Lets just say the vessel is the real Zetsu, ignoring Black/White Zetsoo's.

If Tobi were to be the implanted memories of the real Madara, then he would have a prideful self thinking. He may have such thoughts as
"He's the fake one"
or "I cannot allow such a lie"
If he truly did turn on the true Madara, then Tobi would have been able to assume his role. Sort of how the Spy in Team Fortress 2 assumes the role of the person he back stabs.

What would Tobi have to gain from all of this? Well, since the real Madara is dead, he IS Madara. He can fulfill his purpose, to carry out Madara's goals. In fact, if I'm correct, Black Zetsu has the ability to absorb some factor of power from people using a sort of spore technique, but this is entirely theorized, and only an idea, it isnt actually existing as of yet.

Summarization: Tobi is a Zetsu who Madara used as a failsafe, or a companion to carry out his own goals, but Tobi betrayed his creator and killed him, possibly a little after Akatsuki is formed.
Tobi is still Madara, as the real Madara was killed, Tobi assumed his role.

Still giving zerosameri the 'I told you so' rights.
Even though he is a Zetsu, he is still Madara, however much of a fraction of him as he is.
With the true Madara revealed, how will Tobi defend his mantle?
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Old 10-12-2011, 06:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: In the Defense of zerosameri

I think he's a Zetsu too. just putting that out there.
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Old 10-12-2011, 06:36 PM   #3
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Default Re: In Defense of zerosameri

Sorry I had to change your title a bit to match my Danzo one.
But yeah, zero is still not completely wrong.
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Old 10-12-2011, 06:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: In Defense of zerosameri

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Originally Posted by Wooster View Post
Sorry I had to change your title a bit to match my Danzo one.
But yeah, zero is still not completely wrong.
I am not wrong!
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Old 10-12-2011, 06:45 PM   #5
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Default Re: In Defense of zerosameri

How many threads about this will we make? The world may never know.
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:05 AM   #6
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Default Re: In Defense of zerosameri

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I am not wrong!
Thats one thing you undoubtly are.
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:15 AM   #7
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Default Re: In Defense of zerosameri

Maybe there should be a special Madara/Tobi/Zetsu subforum... we soon have enough threads about this subject, to fill a new subforum

But yes, I sort of agree: http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106050
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:19 AM   #8
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Default Re: In Defense of zerosameri

If Madara did transfer his mind in Tobi .. then he won't remember anything from his past ..but he said " that brat nagato " so he can't be in 2 places in same time
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:57 AM   #9
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Default Re: In Defense of zerosameri

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If Madara did transfer his mind in Tobi .. then he won't remember anything from his past ..but he said " that brat nagato " so he can't be in 2 places in same time
My idea was more of an imprint, if he did that, he might as well transfer his soul, which couldnt happen.
He imprinted his own brain signature into the Tobi Zetsu, seeing as the brain in the Naruto universe acts as sort of a file cabinet, it wouldnt be hard to copy with special Genjutsu or likewise
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:07 AM   #10
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Default Re: In Defense of zerosameri

I think you guys are trying too hard. Madara died shortly after his epic battle with his brother. Do not forget that there is something special with Kabuto. Remember his red eyes? There's something about Kabuto we do not know. How else would he be able to get Madara's DNA to Edo him? As far as Tobi goes, I don't really care who it is, because it's not Madara. I do not think Tobi is a Zetsu. For one, Kishi wouldn't make it that obvious; and two, with the exception of the current transformed Zetsus, the science fiction part of this story has all but died out now that Orochimaru and Danzo were killed off.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:30 AM   #11
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Default Re: In Defense of zerosameri

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Originally Posted by PlatonicZombie View Post
I think you guys are trying too hard. Madara died shortly after his epic battle with his brother. Do not forget that there is something special with Kabuto. Remember his red eyes? There's something about Kabuto we do not know. How else would he be able to get Madara's DNA to Edo him? As far as Tobi goes, I don't really care who it is, because it's not Madara. I do not think Tobi is a Zetsu. For one, Kishi wouldn't make it that obvious; and two, with the exception of the current transformed Zetsus, the science fiction part of this story has all but died out now that Orochimaru and Danzo were killed off.
...............
Fail is all I have to say

Madara didnt die until sometime after he gave Nagato the Rinnegan, I speculate he died somewhere after he formed akatsuki
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:41 AM   #12
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Default Re: In Defense of zerosameri

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...............
Fail is all I have to say

Madara didnt die until sometime after he gave Nagato the Rinnegan, I speculate he died somewhere after he formed akatsuki

Which is still before Kabuto's time. So we are still left with an unknown way in which Kabuto had access to Madara's DNA. The only way he could have access is if he (Kabuto) is actually older than we think he is. What if Kabuto wasn't known as Kabuto when Madara was around. I think you're working off the assumption that when Madara thought Nagato brought him back, he meant the person we know as Nagato. What if the Nagato he referred to was a completely different person? Fail me all you want; all I'm trying to do is explain how Kabuto was able to get Madara's DNA when it was clearly before his time.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:48 AM   #13
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Default Re: In Defense of zerosameri

So in this case, you don't mean Madara, because it's not Madara.

Zetsu is Tobi, and also Obito. Obidartsu is the new shining theory. The Eternal Triangle.

Here's what happened. Zetsu being in the grass village happened to find Obito's body and took his sharingan. He met Madara and they lived their life together, then eventually Madara died, don't know when but he eventually died. Zetsu already had the Tobi persona and shared it with Madara, what his intention is I don't know, probably genjutsu.

Anyway, he got his Mangekyou Sharingan(and that old condition people tend to have forgot could be inserted here, hence why everyone thinks you need MS by killing your friend, because Tobi tested it first and that's how he got it, through killing Madara AKA his best friend at the time), and that's when Kakashi got his so sometime in time skip.

Now anyway, Zetsu continued with the Tobi persona. This time he has all of Madara's sharingan(not EMS, all of his jar sharingan though he could have gotten them on his own time they were probably from the massacre), etc. and is influenced by Madara's genjutsu. Zetsu makes a clone and continues as if he's the real one, also implants hashirama's cells into him(thanks to Madara achieving them for each other).

So now he has all of Madara's beliefs etc all because of the genjutsu, plus he knows all about Madara since he was with him which is why he can pretend to be him so effortlessly. This also explains why the two have such a close relationship. The other half of his body also wasn't shown for a reason when Konan broke the other side off. So there is no "Tobi". It was Zetsu all along. Perfect.

Alternatively, replace everything "Zetsu" with Obito and making a clone, and Tobi is Obito just because Kishi feels like it. ^^

And no. I'm not serious. But you never know with Kishi.
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:28 AM   #14
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Default Re: In Defense of zerosameri

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Originally Posted by Bratcipheo View Post
Thats one thing you undoubtly are.
You still have yet to prove the list wrong.
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:29 AM   #15
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Default Re: In Defense of zerosameri

I love this thread simply for the title, though I could care less for the contents within.
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12:11 PM So you enter the debate with full knowledge that you know nothing of worth on the subject, and then state you will not make an effort to learn. Way to be poster-boy for blight of the forum. Leave discussions of intelligence to those that have it.

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Old 10-13-2011, 11:56 AM   #16
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Default Re: In Defense of zerosameri

Technically he was slightly wrong but has yet to be proven completely wrong. To my knowledge he said Tobi is Madara, no further explanation. So he can't claim to be totally right about the idenity of Tobi. Which we still don't know who Tobi actually is, tho we all assume he is some fragment of the real Madara Unchiha.
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:08 PM   #17
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Default Re: In Defense of zerosameri

Something I forgot about Obidartsu is another reason he can so perfectly remember things and act as if he's Madara is due to his ability to "record".
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: In Defense of zerosameri

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Originally Posted by PlatonicZombie View Post
Which is still before Kabuto's time. So we are still left with an unknown way in which Kabuto had access to Madara's DNA. The only way he could have access is if he (Kabuto) is actually older than we think he is. What if Kabuto wasn't known as Kabuto when Madara was around. I think you're working off the assumption that when Madara thought Nagato brought him back, he meant the person we know as Nagato. What if the Nagato he referred to was a completely different person? Fail me all you want; all I'm trying to do is explain how Kabuto was able to get Madara's DNA when it was clearly before his time.
I call it a fail, because its easy to combat against...

Kabuto is Kabuto, easy as that
Madara is Madara, pretty simple yes?

Kabuto is Kabuto, and Madara's DNA is just about as floaty in the air as some of the other people Kabuto managed to summon, if anything, it doesnt disprove that Tobi is still Madara, but it only makes Kabuto look better.

Case closed, Good day sir!

EDIT: Thanks Wooster, I intended for it to be a copy of In Defense of Danzo
two misunderstood beings... who are rightly so to do what they choose
EDIT:EDIT: This is my first true serious thread
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