Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

[Kuromaki]

Guys if you want to make your own list, make another thread. This should be just for improvements on this list.

Originally Posted by Super Sanin 3

I think TenTen could go up a bit, IIRC she's probably a strong weapon specialist, and now with that Banana fan, even though it exhausts her, we can't say the banana fan is weak, 5 elements and enough power to destroy one of Kakuzu's mask, who's very high in the Kage Tier, while TenTen's in the low tier?

Booyah TenTen's on a higher ranking on the list 3 posts above mine

One for Pre-Feats other for Post-Feats

I thought that was Asuma's wind blast that destroyed one of Kakuzu masks?

Anyway, the banana fan isn't standard equipment for Tenten and she nearly died from just holding it. Like, we're not having Darui fight with the Sage's weapons here.

Originally Posted by ILIKEPIE

I agree Tenten should at least be Mid tier

Speaking of that, mid tier is way too big compared to Low.

[Super Sanin 3]

Am I the only one who thinks Jirobo's impressive? Sure you can go by the fact that Sakon/Ukon and Tayuya are suppose to be the strongest of the 4, but you put them both below Kidomaru anyways

Also while i'm at it, people call Shikimaru overrated, at at times he is, but in Shippuden consider the fact that shadow sewing is a possible 1 hit KO, and that it >> shadow strangling. Add his intelligence to figure out a way to capture them too, this isn't a tier change suggestion though

[Kuromaki]

Also, does everyone agree that the Inuzukas, Choza, and Inoichi should be higher?

Nevermind scratch that. I've been saying this for a while now and I'm just going to go ahead and move them.

[GucciBandana]

Originally Posted by heroeking

With Shisui's MS they can both command commit suicide..........
Pain is switched with Minato.

that is if Shisui's eye can hit the person, so far only stationary targets have been hit by Shisui's eye, it is unknown how it will go if the enemy tries to avoid it, you can't assume it will hit 100% in a battle.

[321zigzag3]

Originally Posted by Kuromaki

Also, does everyone agree that the Inuzukas, Choza, and Inoichi should be higher?

Nevermind scratch that. I've been saying this for a while now and I'm just going to go ahead and move them.

You know kuromaki we could always scrap this and start over.

[Super Sanin 3]

zomg you left TenTen in low tier, jelly that somebody besides Temari can own with a fan? :P

[Kuromaki]

Originally Posted by 321zigzag3

You know kuromaki we could always scrap this and start over.

I wish.

Originally Posted by Super Sanin 3

zomg you left TenTen in low tier, jelly that somebody besides Temari can own with a fan? :P

Temari doesn't almost die from holding hers, so nope.

[GucciBandana]

Originally Posted by 321zigzag3

That was 1/6 Deva with 1/6 of Nagato's chakra and focus.

If it was 6/6 Deva with all of Nagato's chakra and focus on him he wouldn't have as much trouble I believe.

While thats is true.

He wasn't scared. He was just cautious. He almost lost his life because he underestimated against Kakashi. See how Deva was mostly in character.

Shisui is featless though other than hype for his eye and his super shunshin.

ya I agree with what you said and I don't think it really conflicts with my statements, so we are pretty much agree on this one

also I don't think he really "underestimated" Kakashi, more like Kakashi impressed him, depends on how you look at it.

I posted my tier list, do you guys want me to make it a new thread?

[Super Sanin 3]

Even though it exhausts her, her skills with weapons and the fact that the fan has 5 elements and was enough to destroy one of Kakuzu's masks, top Kage tier, should bring her out of the lowest tier here =.=, even if she can only use the fan for a while

[Kuromaki]

Originally Posted by Super Sanin 3

Even though it exhausts her, her skills with weapons and the fact that the fan has 5 elements and was enough to destroy one of Kakuzu's masks, top Kage tier, should bring her out of the lowest tier here =.=, even if she can only use the fan for a while

When did she destroy the mask? Far as I'm concerned, it was Asuma who did that.

In any case, the weapon isn't hers, nor does she fight with it regularly, so it's not standard equipment for her. Besides, she'd die the moment the fight started anyway from holding it >.>

[GucciBandana]

Originally Posted by Super Sanin 3

Am I the only one who thinks Jirobo's impressive? Sure you can go by the fact that Sakon/Ukon and Tayuya are suppose to be the strongest of the 4, but you put them both below Kidomaru anyways

Also while i'm at it, people call Shikimaru overrated, at at times he is, but in Shippuden consider the fact that shadow sewing is a possible 1 hit KO, and that it >> shadow strangling. Add his intelligence to figure out a way to capture them too, this isn't a tier change suggestion though

not sure if you are referring to my list, yes every member of the sounds 4 have something that's very impressive, like Jounin level skills or even better, Kidomaru's intelligence, Sakon/Ukon's kekkei genkai, Tayuya's genjutsu and Jirobo's strength, I do think Jirobo is the least impressive out of everyone, and Kidomaru impressed me the most, I believe Kidomaru's the strongest individual out of the sounds four.

[Super Sanin 3]

When did she destroy the mask? Far as I'm concerned, it was Asuma who did that.

In any case, the weapon isn't hers, nor does she fight with it regularly, so it's not standard equipment for her. Besides, she'd die the moment the fight started anyway from holding it >.>

I forgot what happened there, but i remember her encountering the lightning mask.

Either way i'll wait for the series to progress since i believe she uses it now, but i'll wait for it to show. She would still be able to use it for fighting before being exhausted, at least a bit, the fan is powerful. She also is underrated for her regular fighting style, partly because lack of screen time. We don't get to see what happened vs Temari but she could have beaten ino (i know you'll agree with me ) who is mid tier, and is in Team Guy, which overall is suppose to be stronger than team 8/10. Even Neji and Lee got caught by Kisame.

[GucciBandana]

Originally Posted by Kuromaki

When did she destroy the mask? Far as I'm concerned, it was Asuma who did that.

In any case, the weapon isn't hers, nor does she fight with it regularly, so it's not standard equipment for her. Besides, she'd die the moment the fight started anyway from holding it >.>

I believe Tenten didn't only destroy 1 mask, but at least 2, in that chapter "Naruto goes to war" I think, it was shown 2 broken masks on the ground and right after it, it was Tenten exhausted on the ground, indicating Tenten and a few other fodders destroyed the masks.

[Kuromaki]

Originally Posted by Super Sanin 3

I forgot what happened there, but i remember her encountering the lightning mask.

Either way i'll wait for the series to progress since i believe she uses it now, but i'll wait for it to show. She would still be able to use it for fighting before being exhausted, at least a bit, the fan is powerful. She also is underrated for her regular fighting style, partly because lack of screen time. We don't get to see what happened vs Temari but she could have beaten ino (i know you'll agree with me ) who is mid tier, and is in Team Guy, which overall is suppose to be stronger than team 8/10. Even Neji and Lee got caught by Kisame.

I remember her remarking that Asuma destroyed the mask, along with a panel of her holding the fan.

Not sure why Ino is so high anyway.

[Super Sanin 3]

not sure if you are referring to my list, yes every member of the sounds 4 have something that's very impressive, like Jounin level skills or even better, Kidomaru's intelligence, Sakon/Ukon's kekkei genkai, Tayuya's genjutsu and Jirobo's strength, I do think Jirobo is the least impressive out of everyone, and Kidomaru impressed me the most, I believe Kidomaru's the strongest individual out of the sounds four.

Eh it was aimed at the main list, but i guess it also applies here lol :L since he's behind Hinata, i wasn't really comparing him to the other sound 4 as much as the other ninja, he picks up a super epicly large Choji with 1 hand in CM2, and was able to trap the SRS in his dome, which was hard for even all of them to break out of (fang over fang only put dents)

Actually i'd probably just like it better if Ino went down, i don't see TenTen beating Jirobo or Tayuya with base equipment

[GucciBandana]

Originally Posted by Super Sanin 3

Eh it was aimed at the main list, but i guess it also applies here lol :L since he's behind Hinata, i wasn't really comparing him to the other sound 4 as much as the other ninja, he picks up a super epicly large Choji with 1 hand in CM2, and was able to trap the SRS in his dome, which was hard for even all of them to break out of (fang over fang only put dents)

Actually i'd probably just like it better if Ino went down, i don't see TenTen beating Jirobo or Tayuya with base equipment

Jirobo is strong, he's very strong compare to Shikamaru's team back then, but it is hard to compare him to the Konoha 11 currently, Hinata has improved a lot, the technique she used against Deva, and during the fight with White Zetsu, along side of Neji, she was doing great, I believe she is pretty strong right now. if you say Jirobo is stronger than her, I have no way of denying it, since there's no reference we can use, so it was a personal preference.

[Super Sanin 3]

Jirobo is strong, he's very strong compare to Shikamaru's team back then, but it is hard to compare him to the Konoha 11 currently, Hinata has improved a lot, the technique she used against Deva, and during the fight with White Zetsu, along side of Neji, she was doing great, I believe she is pretty strong right now. if you say Jirobo is stronger than her, I have no way of denying it, since there's no reference we can use, so it was a personal preference.

yeah Hinata's probably much stronger than in part 1, but she barely has screen time so it's hard to tell D:<
But also something that people might not consider is that Hinata might not be able to close chakra points, just regular gentle fist, which is up for debate, this can however be countered by the fact that she has her twin lion jutsu now

[Doton]

Originally Posted by GucciBandana

I believe Tenten didn't only destroy 1 mask, but at least 2, in that chapter "Naruto goes to war" I think, it was shown 2 broken masks on the ground and right after it, it was Tenten exhausted on the ground, indicating Tenten and a few other fodders destroyed the masks.

Again that's an assumption, she only encourtered one mask anyway. Unless she zoomed to 2 different battlefield locations to take out these masks. Also the order doesn't matter, it doesn't mean she destroyed the masks just to show that the battle was over. Before that it showed Kurotsuchis dad standing on a pile of white zetsu saying he got the last one, both this and the masks broken were probably just clear indication that the battle was over.

Plus Tenten might not have the greatest amount of chakra, to control the fan for such a long time as shown when she was half-dead. Unless it was shown that Tenten destroyed the masks, i doubt anybody could believe it. After all we didn't even see HER destory one mask, just because she witnessed Asuma do it doesn't mean she couldv'e taken one out.

[Doton]

Originally Posted by GucciBandana

actually even thou Kakuzu used a lot of chakra, but you are right about he still has a good amount when Naruto came, since those elemental attack cost some chakra, but nothing like a super attack like Susanoo or Chibaku Tensei.

not sure what happened when Choji attacked, but regardless Choji and Ino were useless.

clearly Tenten was the only one used the Banana fan, and those fodders were there to help, but what are those fodders compare to Tenten with Banana Fan?? pretty much nothing, they are just fodders. Tenten didn't destroy all the masks by herself, but she was playing the majority role.



The Banana Fan is stronger than Masks, why? because: 1. the hype it is a treasure used by the Sage, 2. it can use all 5 elements, while Kakuzu can only use 4, 3. it took out Kakuzu's masks. 4. Kakuzu's mask can be destroyed by Asuma's wind attack, Banana Fan never got damaged yet.

Kinkaku has almost unlimited chakra even without the 9 tail's chakra, using all those treasures don't even affect his chakra, it's nothing to him, so chakra effectiveness means nothing in front of Kinkaku'z chakra reserve.

it's not about the target being flying or not, just Deidara was flying made it a little more difficult. the ONLY time Kakashi's Kamui actually missed the initial target was the first time he used it, after that, all the Kamuis landed its target, if you make him Kamui Deidara again while he's flying, very likely he can land it, the main reason he missed it at first was because he couldn't control it properly back then. Deidara's self explosion could've taken out Kakashi with team Gai all together, no elemental defense would work at that moment, that's why he used Kamui, while Kakuzu's elemental attack can be blocked by Kakashi's water jutsu, not even the same level as Deidara's explosion, if Kakashi can Kamui Deidara's explosion, why not Kakuzu's attacks? which is a lot weaker, and gives him extra room for warping other things. Deidara's clone self exploded, so technically Kakashi kamuied the attack along with the user of the attack. you think Kakuzu can dodge a Kamui? Deidara, who has a 4.5/5 in speed, and fast enough to avoid Sasuke's blitz, and can fly as fast as Onoki, couldn't even dodge it, Kakuzu, who has a speed of 4/5, has some swift movements but didn't have any very impressive speed feats, plus he becomes more stationary when he masks and string comes out, can dodge a Kamui?

and if you are saying only because of Shikamaru, Kakashi took down Kakuzu's heart, then for the same reason, only because of Hidan, Kakashi didn't destroy more masks of Kakuzu when he was down, and for the same reason, he got attacked by the wind mask. I see why you putting Shikamaru in this, because he did help, so did Hidan, but not Ino and Choji, so it was Shikamaru and Kakashi vs Kakuzu and Hidan. I don't see Ino and Choji doing anything to help Kakashi, instead of wasting him a double Raikiri.

I think this argument is almost bout to end, ur point is Kakuzu had the upper hand during the fight, yes I agree with that, but my point is Kakashi always make the opponent gain upper hand to counter attack, plus he had 2 people holding him back. so the actual outcome of the fight isn't what it seemed.

we can go into Konan vs Hidan if you want, well not really Konan fighting Hidan, but more of their skill levels.

So we both agree he wasn't completely done by the end, ill explain why Kakashi was basically done by the end, read it yeah?

Lol Choji caused Kakuzu to active the earth-handseal, which Kakashi read in order to decide Raikiri was effective. In all that was an assist to breaking a heart. Choji and/or Ino volunteered to separate Hidan, Shikamaru was plotted to do it to get revenge for Asuma. If they did it the entire battle may have gone differently. I guess they didn't do much. But they did hold off Kakuzu, considering he stood there in the exact same spot half the match, strangling and whatnot. Lollygagging in the center.

Tenten most likely doesnt have the chakra system to handle the fan for more than a mask. She only targetted the Lightning Mask, and was never even seen killing even one mask. Lets look at it this way, if Kakashi fought Pain, and witnessed the death of a Path, not even killing it himself, a couple manga chapters later all paths are seen dead, and barely Kakashi survives directly after. Pretty crazy to assume right? Its no different, for all we know, or even seen. Tenten didn't even kill ONE mask, it was Asuma that killed that one, unless mentioned, its farfetched that Tenten had chakra long enough to take out a couple masks.

When you refer to that, the way the next page shows Tenten, look before. It shows Kurotsuchis dad saying he got the last white zetsu in the pile. Did he take out the pile by himself, doubt it.
ALL THIS is just INDICATING the battle has finished, or atleast seemed so using context clues. Probably just to add to the shock when Madara showed up.

If im not mistaken, the fan was only seen a couple times. By hype I know its powerful. But the Sage of Six paths created tailed beasts, are they are beaten by most powerful leveled ninja. One of 5 of his weapons is stronger than Kakuzu? Kakuzu was in Akatsuki, they hunted Tailed Beasts literally as there job and got up to 7. I doubt this fan is any harm. Kakuzu can most likely use 5 elements, your just being very strict. In no place have I seen the last mask also being earthstyle, and please explain this.

HQ told Darui to counter KAKUZUS earth style with lightning, that hint to iron skin coudn't be any more revealing, but your assumption leads the last mask allowed him to use Iron Skin. By then the masks were arleady gone into battle. We have yet to see the last mask in action, but not only does each element have the color of its element:
Lightning = Yellow
Fire = Red
Wind = Darker blue (Wind doesnt really have a color, like anybody hasn't noticed lol)
Lastly the remaining one.
Water = Lighter blue. If it states somewhere that this is honestly an earth mask please show me XD

Lol this is the last time im repeating this, say it again and your just ignoring me, which i will ignore.
It was NEVER shown to take out his masks, Asuma did it, not the fan.

Only one Jutsu was used with the fan, which is the Fire Coil, which the Fire+Wind mask were together. So unless there a hidden manga chapter with the fan using a water jutsu against this combo, I have yet to see it take out a mask.
You saying it did take out a mask is worse than a filler.
It can be assumed, but its not confirmed for gods sakes XD


I agree that it has improved, but what i was saying is, Kakashi also missed because Deidara was attacking with explosives as well. Kakuzu does have a heavy advantage with 5VS1 enough to possibly corner him and NEITHER SIDE WOULD STAND STILL, Kakashi would have the challenge to try and use Kamui while dodeging the masks. And water doesn't equal fire+wind. And Kakuzu trapped them remember, he couldn't activate handseals to protect himself.

But who CAN dodge a Kamui, and measuring by the databook isnt legit. For example i assume Minato has a 5/5 in speed correct? Making Deidara .5 lower than him. In a speed contest would that .5 matter? No way. Also the databook hasn't been updated for quite some time, which is basically saying if your gonna mention the databook BACK THEN its not different then mentioning Kakashis kamui isnt as powerful NOW, considering the databook probably recorded Kakashi's Kamui skills BACK THEN.

Kakashi has been using his sharingan plus more than half his chakra. The sharingan counts for something, if not I don't see why the Uchiha-clan keeps it active 100% of the time if it didn't use up chakra as well. Its even worse in that case, for non-uchiha as shown with Kakashi and Danzo. Kakashi who had it active and exhausted more than half his chakra. He couldn't pull off handseals because he was pretty much tangled, he would HAVE to save himself from this blast, with Kamui. Blast wasn't small at all.

The blast was pretty large, though not powerful as Deidaras, they made it pretty clear if Kakashi didn't do something he wouldv'e died then and there. My guess is with everything he wasted he could only pull off ONE kamui, to intercept the blast. That wouldn't completely kill him off obviously, but if he uses Kamui once more after that he'd probably die.
Accuracy wouldn't be depended on much, unless he can warp the blast AND Kakuzu together, which is a whole nother level of kamui.
With Pain he used less than the chakra, his sharingan was active but the fight lasted less time, and even then he was only able to use two Kamui then died.

Yet again two kamui on much different things, as in a nail, and a speeding missile.
Accuracy does count but so does size!
He used kamui 3 times in the fight with Deidara, when he used Kamui the first time the warp he tried to use was very narrow, assuming he tried to strike Deidaras head, it was small enough that he didnt warp Deidaras ENTIRE arm, just basically cut it off, to be reattached by Kakuzu later. The blast Deidara used put him in the hospital for a week, see how that affects eachother?

He didn't use anything but Kamui that fight, and with Kakuzu he used a lot of chakra up. Not only does that knock down one or two Kamui he can use, but he would need a larger Kamui for this blast. Keep in mind he NEEDS to use kamui because hes tangled, and needs to use handsigns for water again.

His fight with Sasuke he used 2 at full chakra, and was vulnerable and lost enough chakra that he couldnt react fast enough before Sakura almost died.

Also your confusing me, when Kakuzu sends his masks out your saying Kakashi would use a kamui? I assume that cause he becomes stationary. You said yourself:
"Kakashi uses clones to find the abilities of the opponent" Thats his nature, I doubt he'll kamui at the beggining of the fight until he knows what hes up against. Using a kamui at the start is not likely.

No your wrong, the above paragraph is why im arguing, the outcome of the fight wasn't what it seemed, thats your arguement on how Kakashi usually makes thing take a twist. My arguement is why he couldnt pull off a twist. He didn't have the chakra and stamina to keep going, and Kakuzu COULD keep going. Like what BlackChidori said, with backup he could pull it off, but 1vs1 he can't, not at that point. I keep coming up with new points and reasons Kakashi wouldn't have won, and your saying nearly identical reasons as your last post.

Lol sure Konan or Hidans skills, very soon i hope. Lets finally come to an agreement.
EDIT: Damn, wall of text. I honestly wish that this is my last post, or we take it to PM XD because i typed a friggin essay
Feel bad for you Guccibandana for having to read this.

[GucciBandana]

Originally Posted by Doton

Again that's an assumption, she only encourtered one mask anyway. Unless she zoomed to 2 different battlefield locations to take out these masks. Also the order doesn't matter, it doesn't mean she destroyed the masks just to show that the battle was over. Before that it showed Kurotsuchis dad standing on a pile of white zetsu saying he got the last one, both this and the masks broken were probably just clear indication that the battle was over.

Plus Tenten might not have the greatest amount of chakra, to control the fan for such a long time as shown when she was half-dead. Unless it was shown that Tenten destroyed the masks, i doubt anybody could believe it. After all we didn't even see HER destory one mask, just because she witnessed Asuma do it doesn't mean she couldv'e taken one out.

Kurosuchi was fighting the white Zetsus the entire time, look at this one:
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/534/10

sadly they didn't show Tenten and the masks at all, and since they are the only 2 named characters didn't show, we know the masks were destroyed by either Tenten with the fan, or by fodders.

the Asuma destroying mask scene doesn't mean Tenten destroyed them, but it shows she was fighting at least one, plus there were 2 other destroyed masks at the end, together, indicating the masks aren't too far apart, fighting one might mean encountering multiple ones.