Naruto Shippuden

Naruto Discussion Forum
Who should win? Be sure to nominate who will reign supreme for this month's Member of the Month!

Go Back   Naruto Discussion Forum > The Naruto Discussion Forum > Naruto Manga Discussion

Naruto Manga Discussion All the latest discussions about the Naruto manga (beware, spoilers abound).

View Poll Results: Do you think my theory is correct?
Yes 5 22.73%
Maybe 17 77.27%
No, Its too far-fetched! 0 0%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-16-2011, 06:40 AM   #1
K3nsh!n
Genin
 
K3nsh!n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Used to be the "Pure World"...recently ET'd!
Posts: 326
Rep Power: 6
K3nsh!n saved a kitten from a tree! Yay!K3nsh!n saved a kitten from a tree! Yay!
Default REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!The Truth behind the EMS!

Why can Kakashi only use Kamui?
Why could Shisui only use Kotoamatsukami? How did he get his MS?
Your have your questions...and I have got their answers.

Now I am not arrogant enough to assume that I am 100% accurate, but still this might be a very big spoiler if I am

Spoiler:
The sharingan has 3 different stages of evolution:
1) Base Sharingan (1 to 3 tomoe)
2) Mangekyo Sharingan (MS)
3) Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan (EMS)
I hope the base sharingan doesn’t need much description about its abilities (read the wiki if you want details).
More interesting are the MSand EMS


Mangekyo Sharingan (MS):
Every Uchiha who awakens his MS can use:
Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu though by varying capabilities.
Susanoo can be activated but not by all-that is why it is a rarity like Madara said.
I am not dwelling on ways to awaken the MS, you guys know them better than me

Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan (EMS):
Unlike the MS the EMS never loses its light(exception Izanagi)
Quote:
Naruto Manga chapter 386 pg 9
This is what Itachi said to Sasuke,
Quote:
"A Permanent Mangekyou Sharingan!
By changing hosts, the younger brother's eyes found an inextinguishable light!
But that was only half of the story. The transplant also gave birth to a completely new eye technique..."
After getting an EMS you develop a unique eye technique.
Easy enough to understand, eh?
Now this is where everything gets complicated. How do you get an EMS?
Madara said he obtained his EMS by transplanting his brother’s MS, replacing his own MS.
But
Spoiler:
it doesn’t have to be the only way!

I know most people consider MS and EMS to be almost the same, but I have reason enough to believe that they are quite different. In fact so different that
Spoiler:
you don’t need to have an MS to gain an EMS!

Remember what Madara said about how he “kept few secrets even Itachi didn’t knew”
I am sure I have uncovered some of those secrets!
Spoiler:
The only crucial requirement to obtain an EMS is transplantation of a sharingan

My theory has two important assumptions:
Spoiler:
1) Any Sharingan which changes its original host never loses its light! (Exception Izanagi)
2) Only those MS ocular powers that are common to both, the donor and the receiver, are retained by the receiver, after the transplantation

Now from the above assumptions I can explain the why abilities of different Sharingan users vary so much
Madara:
Spoiler:
Madara obtained his EMS by replacing his MS by Izuna’s MS(assumption 1)
It is not a stretch to say that both Madara and Izuna could use Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu though I am not sure about the Susanoo. So even after the transfer of eyes he retained them.(assumption 2)
Itachi's Amaterasu trap didn't work on Madara because he too can use it and was able to extinguish the black flames (like Sasuke did while saving Karin)
With this transplant he also acquired a new ability- his unique space-time technique

Kakashi:
Spoiler:
Technically, Kakashi never awakened his MS. He got his EMS instead!
To simply put he skipped the MS awakening stage (which is why I think MS & EMS are very different). Because he awakened the MS after the sharingan had changed its original host(aka Obito) it was inherently eternal! (assumption 1)
Since there were no common abilities between the donor and receiver (he never had sharingan to begin with-much less an MS), he acquired only one unique technique Kamui with his EMS (assumption 2)
(If you doubt this think again. Kakashi has never complained about fading vision nor have we ever seen his eye bleeding)

Shisui:
Spoiler:
Yep! I think Shisui actually had an EMS!
Similar to Kakashi, Shisui also skipped his MS awakening stage.
How he came to acquire his EMS, I have a rough theory about it. It’s a bit far-fetched if you ask me:
Spoiler:
Madara gave Shisui his original MS! (we know Izuna died blind- Madara never exchanged his MS with Izuna or it must have been a failed transplatation)
With it Shisui acquired an EMS(assumption 1) and a very special power, Kotoamatsukami.
Even though being an Uchiha, Shisui never had his own MS, hence there were no common abilities between Shisui’s eyes and Madara’s MS. So he was only able to use Kotoamatsukami.(assumption 2)
As to why Madara gave Shisui his original MS-I can speculate.
Shisui and Madara were accomplices!
Madara most likely manipulated Shisui using Shisui’s own ideology against himself (in the same way he manipulated Nagato-we know Madara is very good at such stuff ). Maybe Madara somehow predicted that Shisui would gain something like Kotoamatsukami from his EMS. With Shisui’s help Madara intended to get revenge against the Konoha. Using Kotoamatsukami Shisui manipulated fellow Uchiha members to stage a coup d’etat . Itachi probably found about this (since he was acting as a spy for the elders) and confronted Shisui. Itachi must have found out about Madara. Shisui must have then realized about Madara’s true goal and double-crossed him. To protect Konoha (and also probably because he was ashamed of his own betrayal by siding with Madara), he decided to give Danzo and Itachi one of his own EMS. Shisui died at Itachi’s hand as his penance and help Itachi awaken his own MS. Itachi made it look like suicide to prevent arousing suspicion among other clan members though that part didn’t help much. Itachi then tracked Madara and somehow convinced him to help him massacre the Uchiha clan since it must have already too late to stop them.

Itachi:
Spoiler:
Itachi awakened his MS on Shisui’s death. He could use Tsukuyomi , Amaterasu and Susanoo(rare) .He probably was aware how ability transfer during transplantation of MS worked. He knew that Sasuke would need to transplant his eyes if he awakened his own MS and started to go blind. So he transferred all of his eye techniques to Sasuke so that when Sasuke got his MS he would have the same set of powers including Susanoo. This way even if Sasuke had to transplant Itachi’s eyes he would retain all his previous powers along with a new technique, which would give him a better chance of survival.

Conclusion:
Spoiler:
You can obtain an EMS in more than one way
1) Exchange of MS between two MS users (Izuna's MS to Madara:EMS with one new tech and possibility of retaining some original MS tech)
2) Transplanting one's MS to another (like Madara to Shisui:gain only one new tech EMS and the MS' original powers are lost;except perhaps Tsukuyomi)
3) Transplantation of sharingan from Uchiha to non-Uchiha and then further evolution (like Obito to Kakashi:gain EMS with only one new tech)


EDIT:
Ok! I actually didn't go into the details at first since it was too time consuming and I am actually a very lazy person (Like Shikamaru, who doesn't do anything unless properly motivated)

Spoiler:
For those who think every MS user has unique abilities
Spoiler:
The Uchiha tablet mentions the secrets of the MS:
1) To control the Kyuubi
How is this possible? By use of Tsukuyomi which is in fact a very powerful genjutsu. Even Sasuke used genjutsu to control Manda and he didn't even have the MS at that time. While genjutsu cast by normal sharingan might not be able to control the Kyuubi, a genjutsu cast by MS aka Tsukuyomi can in fact control it! Madara used his MS to control the kyuubi twice, which means he actually used Tsukuyomi!

2) To control Amaterasu (I am sure Itachi or Sasuke mentioned something like this)

Even Susanoo might have been mentioned (though I am not sure)

Now if every MS user had unique abilities, would there be any point mentioning that MS can control Kyuubi if only one of hundreds of Uchiha(aka Madara) could control it? Also it is impractical that anyone can predict all the unique abilities that the Uchiha might get. So its also unlikely that tablet has info on all the possible unique powers that the MS can have.
This dilemma can be solved if we assume that every MS user can use at least Tsukuyomi.

As for Amaterasu, Itachi and Sasuke could use it.
Madara extinguished the Amaterasu from the trap Itachi set in Sasuke's eye. So its probable that he too could use Amaterasu(he stopped the flames in same manner Sauke did while saving Karin). This makes more sense if you consider the fact that he had taken off his mask and he also had his left Sharingan intact (I didn't know for sure that he had another sharingan, before he sacrificed it for Izanagi). What if its his right eye that can use Tsukuyomi (he had his mask on when he controlled the Kuubi at time of Naruto's birth) and his left eye could use Amaterasu? How else do you think he was able to escape Itachi's trap? He was caught completely off-guard, so the Amaterasu definitely hit him while he was solid!

Even if we assume Sasuke could use Amaterasu because Itachi transferred it to him still 2 out of 5 MS users (excluding Sasuke) could use it. Not quite unique anymore, agree?

During Kage's summit, in response to Gaara's question
Quote:
Madara said, "A Sharingan that can activate even Susanoo is a rarity..."
From all this one can draw a conlusion
Any MS user can at least Tsukuyomi(by default), he can even activate Amaterasu(somewhat difficult), but activation of Susanoo is really very difficult(hence Madara's statement)
I hope this clears your doubts about MS abilities


Hmmmm...
I think I now see what the actual problem is...
Most of you seem to find it hard to believe that an EMS can actually be less powerful than the MS since its higher up than the MS in the evolutionary ladder (somehow "upgrade" doesn't seem to be the right word)

As per my theory, the MS gives access to all its powerful techniques at risk of losing your vision. While the EMS which gives you at least one powerful technique with no risk to your vision.

If it is an Eternal 'Mangekyou Sharingan' it should also have 'Mangekyou Sharingan' powers, right?(your view)
But that is because you think the only difference between MS and EMS is that the EMS is eternal!!
I did say that I believed MS and EMS are very different.
Now I didn't explain this before because it is quite confusing.
Spoiler:
Calling an EMS as "EMS" in itself is incorrect!
What we call "EMS" is in fact a completely new type of Sharingan!
Just like the MS it is actually a powerful upgrade to the base sharingan,though unlike the MS it does not fade away!

Quote:
"The more powerful a technique the greater the risk to the user"
The MS has more abilities than the "EMS", but it also has a greater risk. The more you use your MS the faster you lose your vision!

Since you can obtain an "EMS" by a number of ways I have come to an conclusion.
There are infact two distinguishable forms of "EMS"
1) True "EMS" (TEMS)
2) Incomplete "EMS" (IEMS)
I gave them diferent names to avoid confusion

A TEMS is obtained only when both the donor and the receiver have MS awakened, both have same abilities. In this case the new sharingan will not only have acess to all its previous abilities, but will also gain a new technique. So in this case TEMS > MS. Now such an exchange is possible only among Uchiha's.

IEMS is obtained when a receiver gets an "EMS" by any other method than above. Since the retaintion of abilities will vary greatly as per the possible combinations.
IEMS < MS or IEMS = MS
which is why I call it "incomplete"

So the evolutionary ladder of Sharingan becomes something like this:
1) Base Sharingan (1 to 3 tomoe)
2) Mangekyo Sharingan (MS) / Incomplete Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan (IEMS)
3) True Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan (TEMS)

Now if you have really understood this you will now understand
MS users: Itachi, Izuna
IEMS users: Kakashi, Shisui
TEMS users: Madara, Sasuke

So? You see? The TEMS is actually what we actually thought to be an EMS all along!(I know this is confusing-but try to stay on same train of thought as mine)
One interesting point to note
Madara probably couldn't use Susanoo after the transplant, but Sasuke will be able to. Which means Sasuke's new TEMS is more "truer" than Madara's!

Last edited by K3nsh!n; 08-19-2011 at 12:39 AM. Reason: Changed the tiltle
K3nsh!n is offline  
Old 08-16-2011, 09:02 AM   #2
Jakropha
Your Lord Zetsoom
Moderator
 
Jakropha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Geilinor, amassing many geepees
Posts: 8,696
Rep Power: 33
Jakropha is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Jakropha is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.
Jakropha is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Jakropha is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Jakropha is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Jakropha is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Jakropha is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Jakropha is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Jakropha is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Jakropha is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Jakropha is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Jakropha is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Jakropha is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Jakropha is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Jakropha is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.

Awards Showcase

Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

Too long for me to read now, but it makes more sense than

Kakashi got Kamui by killing Jiraiya!
[SPOILER]no, nobody actually said that/SPOILER]
Spoiler:
I did
__________________


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Jakropha is offline  
Old 08-16-2011, 10:30 AM   #3
White Zetsu
Chunin
 
White Zetsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,070
Rep Power: 6
White Zetsu saved a kitten from a tree! Yay!
Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

i think you may be partly correct about this but i think youre wrong about the visual technique side of it, every person who obtains ms gets unique abilities
__________________
YouTube:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
src="
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350">
White Zetsu is offline  
Old 08-16-2011, 11:56 AM   #4
Kakashi Hatake_Yamato
Aiding Kakashi, Yamato, & Iruka
Moderator
 
Kakashi Hatake_Yamato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Konohagakure, with the people dearest to me. Aiding Kakashi on the battlefield and saving Yamato!
Posts: 39,692
Rep Power: 57
Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.
Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.

Awards Showcase

Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

interesting thought
some parts could be true
__________________
///
/^\\/

Kakashi~

\ \ \ \
l\^ ^/l
Yamato~

,,
, / \\
,\^^/
\\---// thnx Edyl
Iruka~


カカシ, ヤマト, イルカ! 愛してる~!
03-02, 13:09 The Immortal Watch Dog
You got Daph Rice, everyone got her
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
She's one of my psycho's
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
she's Cults banner girl
[1/7/2014 9:25:36 AM] Tuus Deus(CoP): I know Daph spends all her time staring at Kakashi pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cult of Personality
Kakashi pretending to get stabbed by Obito because he's such a nice guy and doesn't want Obito to feel about about sucking so much
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cult of Personality
I would just like you to know that I am awesome.
Quote:
All days are Cult Day.
Quote:
I disagree. The best way to get rep from Daph is to be me.
Kakashi Hatake_Yamato is offline  
Old 08-16-2011, 12:26 PM   #5
misaki-chan
Freshmen Academy Student
 
misaki-chan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: At home
Posts: 29
Rep Power: 0
misaki-chan is just chillin' in the village doing D-ranks at this point
Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

you're theory is very interesting and makes sense too. i think it might be true =D
__________________
ナルト日向

サスケサクラ
misaki-chan is offline  
Old 08-16-2011, 03:11 PM   #6
EvL j3st3r
Chunin Exam Proctor
 
EvL j3st3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,813
Rep Power: 8
EvL j3st3r is far along on the distinguished path of a ninja.EvL j3st3r is far along on the distinguished path of a ninja.EvL j3st3r is far along on the distinguished path of a ninja.EvL j3st3r is far along on the distinguished path of a ninja.
Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

Hit and miss. I do agree with you that a transplanted Sharingan never loses it's light bc I see no reason to believe Kakashi's going blind (Which I'm very much tired of arguing that point myself). However, I don't think that's EMS. I mean it fits with the reason for the name, but I think Kakashi's MS <<<<<<<<< than EMS. There's no indication that the manga has mislead us about needing to have acquired MS first before EMS is achievable.
__________________
Quote:
- are you able to think of anything that i'm not catching yet as to how nagato's Peins were never alive to begin with as compared to Tobi's Peinis?
Quote:
^red.
You may want to respell that.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Sorry Kalmeast...........it's just too funny to let die.
EvL j3st3r is offline  
Old 08-16-2011, 04:53 PM   #7
JashinSama
Banned
 
JashinSama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Inside of Yomi
Posts: 2,198
Rep Power: 0
JashinSama saved a kitten from a tree! Yay!
Send a message via Skype™ to JashinSama
Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

Just a quick note, your statement about the Mangekyou at the beginning, says that it is a rarity to awaken Susanoo. There has only been 6 Mangekyou users. So how is rarity implied?

Also, Kenshin is Canadian.

Last edited by JashinSama; 03-20-2012 at 07:32 AM.
JashinSama is offline  
Old 08-16-2011, 05:54 PM   #8
Kreegah!!!
Special Jonin Candidate
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,083
Rep Power: 19
Kreegah!!! completed an S-Rank mission on the way to the bathroom.Kreegah!!! completed an S-Rank mission on the way to the bathroom.Kreegah!!! completed an S-Rank mission on the way to the bathroom.Kreegah!!! completed an S-Rank mission on the way to the bathroom.Kreegah!!! completed an S-Rank mission on the way to the bathroom.Kreegah!!! completed an S-Rank mission on the way to the bathroom.Kreegah!!! completed an S-Rank mission on the way to the bathroom.Kreegah!!! completed an S-Rank mission on the way to the bathroom.Kreegah!!! completed an S-Rank mission on the way to the bathroom.Kreegah!!! completed an S-Rank mission on the way to the bathroom.Kreegah!!! completed an S-Rank mission on the way to the bathroom.Kreegah!!! completed an S-Rank mission on the way to the bathroom.Kreegah!!! completed an S-Rank mission on the way to the bathroom.Kreegah!!! completed an S-Rank mission on the way to the bathroom.Kreegah!!! completed an S-Rank mission on the way to the bathroom.

Awards Showcase

Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JashinSama View Post
Just a quick note, your statement about the Mangekyou at the beginning, says that it is a rarity to awaken Susanoo. There has only been 6 Mangekyou users. So how is rarity implied?
Six since Madara, you mean. MS users were rare throught the ages, supposedly, but Madara and Izuna were far from the first to activate it. Granted I don't recall Susie Shield being labeled rare, common, nor unique to Sasuke and Itachi... but that issue's for another time.
Kreegah!!! is offline  
Old 08-16-2011, 06:26 PM   #9
Gouldy17
Genin Elite
 
Gouldy17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Manchester
Posts: 457
Rep Power: 7
Gouldy17 is just chillin' in the village doing D-ranks at this point
Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

i like it...but i think all MS users have different abilities unless they are siblings at least i hope thats the case...and about kakashi not loosing his sight...he seems to know it happens with the MS without being told (when we see him talk to itachi in the first arc of shippuden) make of it what you will but imo he was loosing his sight in his eye although i think the author left it open in case he ever changed his mind alot like with the byakugan coming b4 the sharingan in both he never stated for a fact either way he only implied
__________________
United's flag is deepest red, It shrouded all our Munich dead, Before their limbs grew stiff and cold, Their heart's blood dyed it's ev'ry fold. Then raise United's banner high, Beneath it's shade we'll live and die, So keep the faith and never fear, We'll keep the Red Flag flying here. We'll never die, we'll never die, We'll never die, we'll never die, We'll keep the Red flag flying high, 'Cos Man United will never die
Gouldy17 is offline  
Old 08-16-2011, 08:46 PM   #10
kalmeast
April's Member of the Month
 
kalmeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Yttik A Ni Neddih Egalliv
Posts: 3,498
Rep Power: 25
kalmeast is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.kalmeast is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.
kalmeast is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.kalmeast is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.kalmeast is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.

Awards Showcase

Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

[QUOTE=K3nsh!n;5438249]
Every Uchiha who awakens his MS can use:
Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu though by varying capabilities.
hmm... we dont have any evidence of that yet. Rather it's more likely those who have Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi have the chance of Gaining Susanoo. If susanoo is rare to awaken, then by default, the two techniques much be rare too, although there still could be those few who have Ammy and Tsuki and have not awaken Susanoo. i base this off of the Japanese myth that Kishi draws from...there's ammy, tsuki and Susan as Izanagi's children.

Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan (EMS):
Unlike the MS the EMS never loses its light(exception Izanagi) We are also uncertain what happens when one uses EMS for Izanagi...is the effect the same as sharingan, but i can agree with you here.

After getting an EMS you develop a unique eye technique.
Easy enough to understand, eh?
This is untrue. Not everyone who get's the EMS gets new Ocular powers with it, as Itachi exclaims: "The transplant gave birth to a new eye technique. However, gaining another's eyes does not equate to gaining this new power" (chp 386 pg 9)

My theory has two important assumptions:
[SPOILER][B][COLOR="Yellow"]1) Any Sharingan which changes its original host never loses its light! (Exception Izanagi).

Yes, this is plausible, i like this.


Kakashi:

(If you doubt this think again. Kakashi has never complained about fading vision nor have we ever seen his eye bleeding)
Bleeding eye is only unique to amaterasu. It's no indication that an eye is going blind. When sasuke got his MS afresh, there was no indication of blindness whatsoever yet his left eye bled before he cast amaterasu. Even the amaterasu that itachi planted in him to kill madara had to come with blood. it's just something with amaterasu.

Shisui:
[SPOILER]Yep! I think Shisui actually had an EMS!
Similar to Kakashi, Shisui also skipped his MS awakening stage.
How he came to acquire his EMS, I have a rough theory about it. It
__________________
Hashi's DNA + FTG = Time Travel
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Naruto chp 666 features the Sage Of The 6 Paths.
kalmeast is offline  
Old 08-16-2011, 08:47 PM   #11
kalmeast
April's Member of the Month
 
kalmeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Yttik A Ni Neddih Egalliv
Posts: 3,498
Rep Power: 25
kalmeast is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.kalmeast is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.
kalmeast is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.kalmeast is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.kalmeast is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.

Awards Showcase

Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

Quote:
Originally Posted by K3nsh!n View Post

Shisui:
[SPOILER]Yep! I think Shisui actually had an EMS!
Similar to Kakashi, Shisui also skipped his MS awakening stage.
How he came to acquire his EMS, I have a rough theory about it. It’s a bit far-fetched if you ask me:
[SPOILER]Madara gave Shisui his original MS! (we know Izuna died blind- Madara never exchanged his MS with Izuna or it must have been a failed transplatation)
I dont think you can make successful presumptions based on subjects that have already been "factualized". Itachi said "Madara was the first and only to have gained EMS by transplanting Izuna's eyes". These variables are unchangeable. You can't change them to map your pre-conceived idea you know, because they are manga "facts" unless noted otherwise.


As to why Madara gave Shisui his original MS-I can speculate.
Nah! there's no such thing as speculating upon a base that is speculative in itself. If the manga gave facts that Shisui has Madara's MS, without telling how and why, then you can speculate why and how. But you base is presumption to begin with.

Shisui and Madara were accomplices!
i actually like this idea...it is interesting and plausible except itach said Madara was his mentor during the Uchiha days. One doesn't become a mentor just by accepting an offer to commit a massacre. They must have known each other way before that.
in Cyan

Overall this is quite nice. i like the theory. sorry i'm not one who usually picks on things but u'd agree we work together to get facts straight, and deductions more promising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreegah! View Post
Six since Madara, you mean. MS users were rare throught the ages, supposedly, but Madara and Izuna were far from the first to activate it.
Ah! not really. Itachi said: Both of them (Izuna and Madara) obtained the power of the Mangekyou. Such a feat HAD never been accomplished by any member of the clan. (manga 386 pg 6) so yes, they were the first.
__________________
Hashi's DNA + FTG = Time Travel
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Naruto chp 666 features the Sage Of The 6 Paths.

Last edited by kalmeast; 08-16-2011 at 08:50 PM.
kalmeast is offline  
Old 08-17-2011, 03:26 AM   #12
K3nsh!n
Genin
 
K3nsh!n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Used to be the "Pure World"...recently ET'd!
Posts: 326
Rep Power: 6
K3nsh!n saved a kitten from a tree! Yay!K3nsh!n saved a kitten from a tree! Yay!
Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

@kalmeast

Quote:
This is untrue. Not everyone who get's the EMS gets new Ocular powers with it, as Itachi exclaims: "The transplant gave birth to a new eye technique. However, gaining another's eyes does not equate to gaining this new power" (chp 386 pg 9)
Itachi was talking about other Uchiha's attempts to gain an EMS
As far as we know no one other than Madara and Izuna acquired an MS during their time. So even if other Uchiha's tried to gain another's eyes it would not lead to an EMS and any new power, since you need to transplant an MS or awaken the MS after transplantation.

About eye bleeding only during Amaterasu, I was incorrect. But still it doesn't make much difference about my original claim about Kakashi, since he cannot use Amaterasu in the first place

About Shisui's theory, I already said it was a rough one.
Maybe he got the EMS in some unexplained manner like Kakashi?
Quote:
Itachi said "Madara was the first and only to have gained EMS by transplanting Izuna's eyes". These variables are unchangeable. You can't change them to map your pre-conceived idea you know, because they are manga "facts" unless noted otherwise.
Itachi could easily have been lying to Sasuke. If Shisui was in fact involved with Madara, Itachi wouldn't want his best friends name dishonored, would he?

And I don't mind at all you picking up on things!
In fact it will rather help me perfect it!
K3nsh!n is offline  
Old 08-17-2011, 03:29 AM   #13
K3nsh!n
Genin
 
K3nsh!n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Used to be the "Pure World"...recently ET'd!
Posts: 326
Rep Power: 6
K3nsh!n saved a kitten from a tree! Yay!K3nsh!n saved a kitten from a tree! Yay!
Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

I have updated my original post! I haven't made changes to it but rather extended it to include explanations to clear some doubts! You should check it!
K3nsh!n is offline  
Old 08-17-2011, 04:09 AM   #14
Squall
Veteran Chunin
 
Squall's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Amazon's Special Forces Training Centre
Posts: 1,304
Rep Power: 11
Squall strikes fear and awe in the fragile hearts of Genins.Squall strikes fear and awe in the fragile hearts of Genins.Squall strikes fear and awe in the fragile hearts of Genins.Squall strikes fear and awe in the fragile hearts of Genins.Squall strikes fear and awe in the fragile hearts of Genins.Squall strikes fear and awe in the fragile hearts of Genins.Squall strikes fear and awe in the fragile hearts of Genins.Squall strikes fear and awe in the fragile hearts of Genins.Squall strikes fear and awe in the fragile hearts of Genins.Squall strikes fear and awe in the fragile hearts of Genins.Squall strikes fear and awe in the fragile hearts of Genins.Squall strikes fear and awe in the fragile hearts of Genins.
Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

Interesting, but I'm sticking to my guns of more simple reasoning.

A single transplanted sharingan
cannot awaken Susanoo, you need both eyes.

Kakashi got his MS by doing something so emotional, he awakened it. It's just it's been explained in the manga how any MS can be obtained several times.

Sasuke even mentioned that if a non-uchiha could awaken the MS, they were scum and didn't deserve it, but obviously could still happen.

In my knowledge, a non-uchiha ninja could awake EMS if the brother of the tranplanter gave him his eyes AFTER MS was awakened. So as for Kakashi.... Obito's brother would need to give Kakashi his MS for him to awaken EMS in one eye. That (assume) has not happened, as there's no proof Obito is even linked in the series, let alone his brother's involvement, and it's simply an MS with a Kumui ability in one eye. Obito's other eye would have a different MS ability.

EMS was stated by Madara that a brother's MS could only awaken EMS once transplanted, no one else. It's the true Uchiha way of becoming strong, to kill your brother - even supported by the original elder brother attacking the younger brother.

As for Shisui, Madara and Izuna obtained their MS by simply being awesome, not mentioning any strong emotions bringing this out in them. Same could be for Shisui. He was deemed along side Itachi as the best skilled and talented Uchiha ninja. itachi awakened his by seeing his best friend die....emotional enough to bring out his own MS while Shisui automatically brought his out - by his own awesomness OR by making/seeing such an emotional decision.

Outside Madara and Izuna... it would be assumed Shisui would the next best Uchiha... if not on the same level at that stage\, so him awakening his MS without killing anyone is believable.

So.....

MS is either awakened, or by simply being evoked out of someone.

EMS is a brother transplant ONLY. Cannot happen with someone else's MS being transplanted. Uchiha to Uchiha, or Uchiha to Non-Uchiha. If they're not brothers, EMS will not be awakened. This is the only way.

It's what said and supported in the manga several times, I'm not going to believe anything else until shown or there is a believable hypothesis is shown.

It was a good breakdown though - but i'm sticking to what I'm told and is far less assumed.


__________________
If we don't end war; war will end us.


If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests?


Last edited by Squall; 08-17-2011 at 04:20 AM.
Squall is offline  
Old 08-17-2011, 07:04 AM   #15
kravenkorvinus
Apprentice Genin
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 117
Rep Power: 7
kravenkorvinus is just chillin' in the village doing D-ranks at this point
Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

Now if every MS user had unique abilities, would there be any point mentioning that MS can control Kyuubi if only one of hundreds of Uchiha(aka Madara) could control it?
yes there is a point..so that one out of one hundred would know what to do

Also it is impractical that anyone can predict all the unique abilities that the Uchiha might get. So its also unlikely that tablet has info on all the possible unique powers that the MS can have.
This dilemma can be solved if we assume that every MS user can use at least Tsukuyomi.
Its because Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu are the best MS techniques..thats why they are significant enough of a technique that they ended up in the tablet..
as for both Itachi and Sasuke having it..theyre brothers..so basically they have a big chance of aquiring the same MS techniques..which in Sasuke's case didnt apply since his Tsukoyomi wasnt the same caliber as Itachi's..


As for Amaterasu, Itachi and Sasuke could use it.
Madara extinguished the Amaterasu from the trap Itachi set in Sasuke's eye. So its probable that he too could use Amaterasu(he stopped the flames in same manner Sauke did while saving Karin).
AFAIK, Madara only had a normal sharingan then..up until now actually..it wasnt shown how it was extinguished..Madara just reemerged from the shadows without it..(chp 397, pg 11) so the probability of him being able to use amaterasu remains just a probability..because its not amaterasu that extinguished Karin but Tsukoyomi..( chp415, pg 6)

This makes more sense if you consider the fact that he had taken off his mask and he also had his left Sharingan intact (I didn't know for sure that he had another sharingan, before he sacrificed it for Izanagi). What if its his right eye that can use Tsukuyomi (he had his mask on when he controlled the Kuubi at time of Naruto's birth) and his left eye could use Amaterasu? How else do you think he was able to escape Itachi's trap? He was caught completely off-guard, so the Amaterasu definitely hit him while he was solid!
he had normal sharingan during the encounter..my theory on how he was able to escape it is that because he can regenerate body parts..he couldve just cut of his arm like the Raikage did and regrew it..

Even if we assume Sasuke could use Amaterasu because Itachi transferred it to him still 2 out of 5 MS users (excluding Sasuke) could use it. Not quite unique anymore, agree?
unique still..its "being unique" was only transferred to another person..it doesnt make it Sasukes own..so it is unique..




As per my theory, the MS gives access to all its powerful techniques at risk of losing your vision. While the EMS which gives you at least one powerful technique with no risk to your vision.

this is yet to be proven..when Sasuke appears and is still able to use Amaterasu, Tsukoyomi and Susanoo AND his new technique, then your theory would be completely debunked..except the "once you transfer a sharingan it wont ever lose its light" concept ..

kravenkorvinus is offline  
Old 08-17-2011, 07:59 AM   #16
yondaime*
Genin
 
yondaime*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: ZZZzzzZZZzzzZZZzzzZZZzzz
Posts: 214
Rep Power: 6
yondaime* is just chillin' in the village doing D-ranks at this point
Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

nice thoery. some may be right some may be wrong. overall, it's a maybe.
yondaime* is offline  
Old 08-17-2011, 08:25 AM   #17
K3nsh!n
Genin
 
K3nsh!n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Used to be the "Pure World"...recently ET'd!
Posts: 326
Rep Power: 6
K3nsh!n saved a kitten from a tree! Yay!K3nsh!n saved a kitten from a tree! Yay!
Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kravenkorvinus View Post
Now if every MS user had unique abilities, would there be any point mentioning that MS can control Kyuubi if only one of hundreds of Uchiha(aka Madara) could control it?
yes there is a point..so that one out of one hundred would know what to do
Sorry but I don't much point in leaving something so important like this in hands of fate.

Also it is impractical that anyone can predict all the unique abilities that the Uchiha might get. So its also unlikely that tablet has info on all the possible unique powers that the MS can have.
This dilemma can be solved if we assume that every MS user can use at least Tsukuyomi.
Its because Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu are the best MS techniques..thats why they are significant enough of a technique that they ended up in the tablet..
as for both Itachi and Sasuke having it..theyre brothers..so basically they have a big chance of aquiring the same MS techniques..which in Sasuke's case didnt apply since his Tsukoyomi wasnt the same caliber as Itachi's..


The tablet was supposedly left by the Rikudo Sennin. There were no Uchiha's at that time. How would he know Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu would be the best among all the possible abilities that his older son's descendants were going to acquire after gaining an MS. He might have been a sage, but no one can predict that far when so many variables are present

As for Amaterasu, Itachi and Sasuke could use it.
Madara extinguished the Amaterasu from the trap Itachi set in Sasuke's eye. So its probable that he too could use Amaterasu(he stopped the flames in same manner Sauke did while saving Karin).
AFAIK, Madara only had a normal sharingan then..up until now actually..it wasnt shown how it was extinguished..Madara just reemerged from the shadows without it..(chp 397, pg 11) so the probability of him being able to use amaterasu remains just a probability..because its not amaterasu that extinguished Karin but Tsukoyomi..( chp415, pg 6)
can you explain how? Tsukoyomi is a genjutsu, right?

This makes more sense if you consider the fact that he had taken off his mask and he also had his left Sharingan intact (I didn't know for sure that he had another sharingan, before he sacrificed it for Izanagi). What if its his right eye that can use Tsukuyomi (he had his mask on when he controlled the Kuubi at time of Naruto's birth) and his left eye could use Amaterasu? How else do you think he was able to escape Itachi's trap? He was caught completely off-guard, so the Amaterasu definitely hit him while he was solid!
he had normal sharingan during the encounter..my theory on how he was able to escape it is that because he can regenerate body parts..he couldve just cut of his arm like the Raikage did and regrew it..

How can you be so sure that Madara had only a normal sharigan as his left eye, and not an EMS? If could regrow his body parts instantly why didn't he do so when he lost his arm against Danzo's underlings?
But still since it happened in the shadows even your theory is only as probable as mine.

Even if we assume Sasuke could use Amaterasu because Itachi transferred it to him still 2 out of 5 MS users (excluding Sasuke) could use it. Not quite unique anymore, agree?
unique still..its "being unique" was only transferred to another person..it doesnt make it Sasukes own..so it is unique..


As per my theory, the MS gives access to all its powerful techniques at risk of losing your vision. While the EMS which gives you at least one powerful technique with no risk to your vision.

this is yet to be proven..when Sasuke appears and is still able to use Amaterasu, Tsukoyomi and Susanoo AND his new technique, then your theory would be completely debunked..except the "once you transfer a sharingan it wont ever lose its light" concept ..
You should read carefully. I said "at least one".
If Sasuke can indeed can use all the three powers and a new technique-it doesn't debunk my theory! Rather it supports it!I have explained it along with Itachi's abilities!(my mistake I should have kept it separate)
Since Itachi and Sasuke both have common powers he will not only retain them but also gain another new technique after he gets his EMS
Honestly this makes me doubt if you even read it in full.
You are just interpreting some of my statements as per your convenience rather than using a holistic approach
I have no intention of insulting you, but I wish that you at least read my theory carefully before jumping to conclusions
^in yelllow

Last edited by K3nsh!n; 08-17-2011 at 10:34 AM.
K3nsh!n is offline  
Old 08-17-2011, 08:43 AM   #18
K3nsh!n
Genin
 
K3nsh!n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Used to be the "Pure World"...recently ET'd!
Posts: 326
Rep Power: 6
K3nsh!n saved a kitten from a tree! Yay!K3nsh!n saved a kitten from a tree! Yay!
Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squall View Post
Interesting, but I'm sticking to my guns of more simple reasoning.

A single transplanted sharingan
cannot awaken Susanoo, you need both eyes. I never said it could

Kakashi got his MS by doing something so emotional, he awakened it. It's just it's been explained in the manga how any MS can be obtained several times.

Sasuke even mentioned that if a non-uchiha could awaken the MS, they were scum and didn't deserve it, but obviously could still happen. My theory is about EMS not ways of awakening an MS. It doesn't matter how you awaken an MS as long as you can

In my knowledge, a non-uchiha ninja could awake EMS if the brother of the tranplanter gave him his eyes AFTER MS was awakened. So as for Kakashi.... Obito's brother would need to give Kakashi his MS for him to awaken EMS in one eye. That (assume) has not happened, as there's no proof Obito is even linked in the series, let alone his brother's involvement, and it's simply an MS with a Kumui ability in one eye. Obito's other eye would have a different MS ability.Read what I say about Kakashi's abilities again

EMS was stated by Madara that a brother's MS could only awaken EMS once transplanted, no one else. It's the true Uchiha way of becoming strong, to kill your brother - even supported by the original elder brother attacking the younger brother.

As for Shisui, Madara and Izuna obtained their MS by simply being awesome, not mentioning any strong emotions bringing this out in them. Same could be for Shisui. He was deemed along side Itachi as the best skilled and talented Uchiha ninja. itachi awakened his by seeing his best friend die....emotional enough to bring out his own MS while Shisui automatically brought his out - by his own awesomness OR by making/seeing such an emotional decision.

Outside Madara and Izuna... it would be assumed Shisui would the next best Uchiha... if not on the same level at that stage\, so him awakening his MS without killing anyone is believable.

So.....

MS is either awakened, or by simply being evoked out of someone.Again I am not concerned how you awaken an MS as long as you can

EMS is a brother transplant ONLY. Cannot happen with someone else's MS being transplanted. Uchiha to Uchiha, or Uchiha to Non-Uchiha. If they're not brothers, EMS will not be awakened. This is the only way.
There is no conclusive evidence that this is the only way-it is the only "known" method.You could say Madara was just lucky to have a brother who also had a MS

It's what said and supported in the manga several times, I'm not going to believe anything else until shown or there is a believable hypothesis is shown.
If my theory is correct it will automatically find its place

It was a good breakdown though - but i'm sticking to what I'm told and is far less assumed.


^ in yellow
K3nsh!n is offline  
Old 08-17-2011, 03:06 PM   #19
kravenkorvinus
Apprentice Genin
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 117
Rep Power: 7
kravenkorvinus is just chillin' in the village doing D-ranks at this point
Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

amaterasu that extinguished Karin but Tsukoyomi..( chp415, pg 6)

look at the chapter that i have specified..why would he even activate his right eye if it only took Amaterasu to extinguish it?
this was also shown during his fight with raikage but not to extinguish it but to manipulate it..
i will only argue with this because i too do not know which controls which..so maybe you know the answer ^^

the rest you have proven your point and I have been sleepy..
kravenkorvinus is offline  
Old 08-17-2011, 03:19 PM   #20
Super Sanin 3
Special Jonin Candidate
 
Super Sanin 3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,537
Rep Power: 6
Super Sanin 3 is far along on the distinguished path of a ninja.Super Sanin 3 is far along on the distinguished path of a ninja.Super Sanin 3 is far along on the distinguished path of a ninja.Super Sanin 3 is far along on the distinguished path of a ninja.
Default Re: REVEALED:Sharingan's secrets!

I thought that eye also controled blaze release
Super Sanin 3 is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
ems, mangekyo, sharingan, uchiha


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.