Hinata vs. Konohamaru

[Phoenix Wright]

FRS crossed the crater faster than she did, and Naraka dodged that. No need to get violent but if you wanna I'm not gonna.

[[Shikamaru]]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Wright

FRS crossed the crater faster than she did, and Naraka dodged that. No need to get violent but if you wanna I'm not gonna.

Are you insinuating Konohamaru is equal to Nakara reaction feats?

The difference is quite simple.

FRS was summoned and launched directly in plain view.

Konohamaru completely blindsided Nakara from behind.

Thus, Hinata's feat is still viable, and she blitzes for a kill strike.

Until you note a better feat for Konohamaru, you cannot counter.

[Wooster]

When I give a warning, please listen to it. Next person to flame gets an infraction. Stick to the debate.

As to the debate, there is no usable time frame on how long it took Hinata to reach Naruto, nor is it clear that events were happening concurrently. That is not a viable speed feat.

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Cool it, PW and brackets.


Hmm, I am an idiot. Konohamaru can make two clones at once. Yeah, Hinata has no chance unless she can keep her distance.

Given she can only attack one clone at a time. The remain clone and Konohamaru can nail her arse.

Theres the issue of time wooster.
Imagine the brain, able to process reactions at up to 150 m/s.
However the common combat-trained human can react to 220 m/s.

Now take into thought that Kono has no reaction feats that assume he is above basic human. That means a 200 m/s reaction, maybe, at maximum, being generous since half of the humans can't react to something at 220 m/s.

Now take in light this, Ino moves at 300 m/s. Hinata moves faster than Ino in being able to cover the crater before Pain's push was ready again.
Even being at 301 m/s, she moves much faster than Kono can react to, let alone give him time to process the information, form the chakra, and divide it perfectly among clones.

Its all about time. Kono doesnt have time to make even one clone.

[[Shikamaru]]

Lol not a viable feat.

Alright.

[Nick Tasogare]

Originally Posted by [Shikamaru]

Wasn't aware calling you an idiot was a violation of the rules.

Stating the truth is how I debate.

It's not, but flaming RIGHT AFTER a warning in thread is kinda deserving of a warning or infraction.

And lol the truth.

[[Shikamaru]]

Originally Posted by Nick Tasogare

It's not, but flaming RIGHT AFTER a warning in thread is kinda deserving of a warning or infraction.

And lol the truth.

Where do you see flaming?

The man called himself an idiot, I just supported his claim.

[Nick Tasogare]

Originally Posted by [Shikamaru]

Where do you see flaming?

The man called himself an idiot, I just supported his claim.

Yet you said you didn't know that calling him an idiot was against the rules. Meaning you called him an idiot =)

[Frost ninja]

Hey, trying to have a debate here. If you want to talk rules, do it in PMs

[[Shikamaru]]

Originally Posted by Nick Tasogare

Yet you said you didn't know that calling him an idiot was against the rules. Meaning you called him an idiot =)

In other words, I wasn't aware it was flaming. Because it's not.

Flaming would be me saying you're spam posting and intruding in a debate where you have no place.

[Nick Tasogare]

[[[[[[Lol Shikamaru]]]]]]

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

Hey, trying to have a debate here. If you want to talk rules, do it in PMs

K

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

Theres the issue of time wooster.
Imagine the brain, able to process reactions at up to 150 m/s.
However the common combat-trained human can react to 220 m/s.

Now take into thought that Kono has no reaction feats that assume he is above basic human. That means a 200 m/s reaction, maybe, at maximum, being generous since half of the humans can't react to something at 220 m/s.

Now take in light this, Ino moves at 300 m/s. Hinata moves faster than Ino in being able to cover the crater before Pain's push was ready again.
Even being at 301 m/s, she moves much faster than Kono can react to, let alone give him time to process the information, form the chakra, and divide it perfectly among clones.

Its all about time. Kono doesnt have time to make even one clone.

So if a combat trained real person can react to something 220 m/s, and Konohamaru is above average human and combat trained, arguably better than most real people probably are, how is it 'generous' to give him 200 m/s reaction speed? Doesn't make sense in my mind.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

Theres the issue of time wooster.
Imagine the brain, able to process reactions at up to 150 m/s.
However the common combat-trained human can react to 220 m/s.

Now take into thought that Kono has no reaction feats that assume he is above basic human. That means a 200 m/s reaction, maybe, at maximum, being generous since half of the humans can't react to something at 220 m/s.

Now take in light this, Ino moves at 300 m/s. Hinata moves faster than Ino in being able to cover the crater before Pain's push was ready again.
Even being at 301 m/s, she moves much faster than Kono can react to, let alone give him time to process the information, form the chakra, and divide it perfectly among clones.

Its all about time. Kono doesnt have time to make even one clone.

That is a meaningless way to determine reaction time. Top speed in no way correlates to reaction speed. What matters is the change in speed i.e acceleration and for a limited duration. This of course, could be much faster or possible slower. But that is not all, the processing time to know a attack is being launched. That is nearly constant across all humans. As this is an anime, we can't rely on that how long this is, but safe to assume reaction time is the same between Hinata and Konohamaru. Neither has shown any amazing ability to avoid attacks.

I have all said why that speed feat is greatly suspect. If she were that fast why has she never reproduced that speed feat? Might as well say Konohamaru is that fast because he was nowhere visible upon the Pein Path and was then right up in his grill.

The more relevant matter is comparisons of battles. If Konohamaru can get the drop on a path of Pein, he can do the same to Hinata--easily. We have seen multiple example of clones being create while in hand-to-hand contact, Konohamaru can make clones before Hinata reaches. He can also make clones while as they are defeated. Three-on-one, Hinata is at a disadvantage.

Again, I would say you need to stick to midrange attacks, but I am not going to make your argument for you.

[Phoenix Wright]

Originally Posted by [Shikamaru]

Are you insinuating Konohamaru is equal to Nakara reaction feats?

The difference is quite simple.

FRS was summoned and launched directly in plain view.

Konohamaru completely blindsided Nakara from behind.

Thus, Hinata's feat is still viable, and she blitzes for a kill strike.

Until you note a better feat for Konohamaru, you cannot counter.

432, 5-6.

428 Page 6, Naraka turns around. Since he's so impressive and Konohamaru's so slow and all, he should have had plenty of time to dodge, right?

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by Wooster

That is a meaningless way to determine reaction time. Top speed in no way correlates to reaction speed. What matters is the change in speed i.e acceleration and for a limited duration. This of course, could be much faster or possible slower. But that is not all, the processing time to know a attack is being launched. That is nearly constant across all humans. As this is an anime, we can't rely on that how long this is, but safe to assume reaction time is the same between Hinata and Konohamaru. Neither has shown any amazing ability to avoid attacks.

She avoided a lot of PTS neji's strikes. I'd say hats a bit amazing.
Kono avoided... what?


I have all said why that speed feat is greatly suspect. If she were that fast why has she never reproduced that speed feat? Might as well say Konohamaru is that fast because he was nowhere visible upon the Pein Path and was then right up in his grill.

When else has she fought? Likewise we can't say kono was that fast being we know he was in the general area the entire time. Hinata has the advantage of being shown in a much farther location and then transitioning into the crater before the push was ready, andf the background shot shows she was not in the crater beforehand.


The more relevant matter is comparisons of battles. If Konohamaru can get the drop on a path of Pein, he can do the same to Hinata--easily. We have seen multiple example of clones being create while in hand-to-hand contact, Konohamaru can make clones before Hinata reaches. He can also make clones while as they are defeated. Three-on-one, Hinata is at a disadvantage.

Except the entire strategy kono had was getting the drop, which won't happen because of byakugan. Likewise Kono has not only never shown even the slightest bit of aptitude to do hand-to-hand clones with any situation, but also that he has to focus on making clones which makes both of his hands occupied. And that leaves him open for vital strikes.

How will he make clones before she gets there exactly, and whats stopping her from air palming on her way to him to prevent that?
Oh and three to one is only good if all three can attack. Sadly, Kono looks to need two for rasengan and Hinata likely knows what it looks like from the naruto vs pain fight. They aren't getting the drop, and she knows what to look for.

Again, I would say you need to stick to midrange attacks, but I am not going to make your argument for you.

She doesnt need to but can, I'm stating how this is a win regardless of range.

[[Shikamaru]]

Originally Posted by Wooster

That is a meaningless way to determine reaction time. Top speed in no way correlates to reaction speed. What matters is the change in speed i.e acceleration and for a limited duration. This of course, could be much faster or possible slower. But that is not all, the processing time to know a attack is being launched. That is nearly constant across all humans. As this is an anime, we can't rely on that how long this is, but safe to assume reaction time is the same between Hinata and Konohamaru. Neither has shown any amazing ability to avoid attacks.

I have all said why that speed feat is greatly suspect. If she were that fast why has she never reproduced that speed feat? Might as well say Konohamaru is that fast because he was nowhere visible upon the Pein Path and was then right up in his grill.

The more relevant matter is comparisons of battles. If Konohamaru can get the drop on a path of Pein, he can do the same to Hinata--easily. We have seen multiple example of clones being create while in hand-to-hand contact, Konohamaru can make clones before Hinata reaches. He can also make clones while as they are defeated. Three-on-one, Hinata is at a disadvantage.

Again, I would say you need to stick to midrange attacks, but I am not going to make your argument for you.

What you fail to understand is she has a 360 degree visual range.

There literally is no room for blindsiding.

You have absolutely no combat feats for Konohamaru, there is no assumptions in debating.

Her feats clearly are much better than Konohamaru's. Do tell me what clones do once they're summoned.

While hinata blitzes she tosses two Kunai, poof. Shadow clones bye bye.

Kill strike.

Game over.

Or maybe the way it should go. She blitzes and kills him before he can make a seal.

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Wright

432, 5-6.

428 Page 6, Naraka turns around. Since he's so impressive and Konohamaru's so slow and all, he should have had plenty of time to dodge, right?

437-7 and 437-8, if hinata is not as fast as I said she is, and since he could just push her away, then why didnt he? If we go by your feat we must also go by mine which puts hinata at FRS-esque speeds which is far beyond kono's reactions.

Which means its an insta-kill.

[Phoenix Wright]

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

437-7 and 437-8, if hinata is not as fast as I said she is, and since he could just push her away, then why didnt he? If we go by your feat we must also go by mine which puts hinata at FRS-esque speeds which is far beyond kono's reactions.

Which means its an insta-kill.

Lol there was a feat there? All I saw was Hinata jump, not impressive. He didn't push her because she wasn't any threat to him, if you didn't notice she didn't go on the offensive yet.

As for when she did- Lulz, Deva backstepped from her attack to dodge once then STed her.

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Wright

Lol there was a feat there? All I saw was Hinata jump, not impressive. He didn't push her because she wasn't any threat to him, if you didn't notice she didn't go on the offensive yet.

As for when she did- Lulz, Deva backstepped from her attack to dodge once then STed her.

Then agreeable enough, naraka didnt see any threat from kono and just didn't evade.
As far as the feat goes, she made it crater edge to middle before the push was off of recharge, after a bit of talking, which puts it at 1-3 seconds tops. Which is roughly the speed of FRS.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

She avoided a lot of PTS neji's strikes. I'd say hats a bit amazing.
Kono avoided... what?


When else has she fought? Likewise we can't say kono was that fast being we know he was in the general area the entire time. Hinata has the advantage of being shown in a much farther location and then transitioning into the crater before the push was ready, andf the background shot shows she was not in the crater beforehand.




Except the entire strategy kono had was getting the drop, which won't happen because of byakugan. Likewise Kono has not only never shown even the slightest bit of aptitude to do hand-to-hand clones with any situation, but also that he has to focus on making clones which makes both of his hands occupied. And that leaves him open for vital strikes.

How will he make clones before she gets there exactly, and whats stopping her from air palming on her way to him to prevent that?
Oh and three to one is only good if all three can attack. Sadly, Kono looks to need two for rasengan and Hinata likely knows what it looks like from the naruto vs pain fight. They aren't getting the drop, and she knows what to look for.


She doesnt need to but can, I'm stating how this is a win regardless of range.

She blocked them with her arms. Explain to me how you block a rasengan. She has never shown any impressive feats when being attacked from behind.

She fought during the war. All she did was use air palm. Again, we have no clue how long that took. When we did see her, there was no appearance of her moving any faster than Konohamaru when he attacked Naraka. That is a felonious speed feat. If she were moving extremely fast, Kishi would have shown it.

Again, he has two clones. Since you seem stuck on direct close range attacks, she attacks one the other two nail her with rasengan with attack speed that is fast enough to nail Naraka.

How will she get there before he makes clones? Plenty of examples of clones being made instantaneously. You need to show Hinata being able to stop it.

She can't. She losses that way.

Originally Posted by [Shikamaru]

What you fail to understand is she has a 360 degree visual range.

There literally is no room for blindsiding.

You have absolutely no combat feats for Konohamaru, there is no assumptions in debating.

Her feats clearly are much better than Konohamaru's. Do tell me what clones do once they're summoned.

While hinata blitzes she tosses two Kunai, poof. Shadow clones bye bye.

Kill strike.

Game over.

Or maybe the way it should go. She blitzes and kills him before he can make a seal.

Seeing something does not mean one can react to it. Plus, we have never seen Hinata use Bykagugan in that way. You can't assign Neji's abilities to her. You can only use what we have seen her do.

That is meaningless. If she is attacking a clone, she cannot be defending from behind.

No, no? Really?

Naraka, a much more formidable opponent than Hinata.

If you want to make things up. Konhamaru and his clones blitz throw two kunai each. How does she avoid eight kunai when she is busy throwing two? One clone goes poof. Hinata is a pincushion.

[Phoenix Wright]

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

Then agreeable enough, naraka didnt see any threat from kono and just didn't evade.
As far as the feat goes, she made it crater edge to middle before the push was off of recharge, after a bit of talking, which puts it at 1-3 seconds tops. Which is roughly the speed of FRS.

That was fear in his eyes. Pain knows about the Rasengan naturally.

FRS crossed the crater a lot faster than Pain's time limit was, what do you think the clones were there to hold him down for, luckily Deva managed to jump in time to dodge.

Also Naraka was dodging FRS pretty easily so it doesn't make sense for him to simply not be able to react to Konohamaru of all people, hm.