Bleach Chapter 455

[Wind Style Naruto]

Originally Posted by Vivi

Because WW was one of the most Mysterious Characters.
We knew nothing of him.

Also adding in that he lived for so long already showed he was special.
IIRC:
He outlasted every Espada.
People were suspicious on why he lived for so long.
Especially considering we hadn't seen his Resurreccion.

Also:
We know he was marked down as being Espada level.
Hence him blitzing Ukitake and Starrk mentioning:
Aizen is sick of waiting.

Basically WW was hyped to be some Miracle Weapon at Espada Level.

Another point is indeed his mindabsenceness.
People speculated it went so far that he would be at a Point where he couldn't differ between Enemy and Friend anymore.

Basically it was predictable WW will do something special.
Though really noone thought of him as a Fire Extinguisher.

So you felt that Wonderweiss was trolled?

[Vivi]

Originally Posted by Wind Style Naruto

So you felt that Wonderweiss was trolled?

I actually did.
The Kid had a crapton of Potential.

I mean look:
He blitzed Ukitake.
Fought off against 2 Vizards rather handily.
Survived Kensei's Bankai without any appearant injuries.

He impressed and seemed like a Top Dog.

What happened then?
Kubo used him to shield Aizen from Yamamoto by pulling out that stupid Ability outta his Ass with a lame backstory.

[Cyl]

I called it! I knew Ichigo's friends would attack him!

[deidara330]

Originally Posted by Taker369

this chapter was really good we got see an either darker side to ichigo witch we haven't seen in awhile plus ichigos on friends and family have turned against him making him want to kill tsukishima ichigo just became a dark main hero

More commonly known as the anti-hero.

Originally Posted by Vivi

That was before Kubo pulled Margera's Fire Extinguisher Ability outta his Ass.

Wonderweiss had unbelievable potential but Kubo just made him Aizen's WonderWEAPON against Yamamoto.

Originally Posted by Vivi

Because WW was one of the most Mysterious Characters.
We knew nothing of him.

Also adding in that he lived for so long already showed he was special.
IIRC:
He outlasted every Espada.
People were suspicious on why he lived for so long.
Especially considering we hadn't seen his Resurreccion.

Also:
We know he was marked down as being Espada level.
Hence him blitzing Ukitake and Starrk mentioning:
Aizen is sick of waiting.

Basically WW was hyped to be some Miracle Weapon at Espada Level.

Another point is indeed his mindabsenceness.
People speculated it went so far that he would be at a Point where he couldn't differ between Enemy and Friend anymore.

Basically it was predictable WW will do something special.
Though really noone thought of him as a Fire Extinguisher.

Originally Posted by Vivi

I actually did.
The Kid had a crapton of Potential.

I mean look:
He blitzed Ukitake.
Fought off against 2 Vizards rather handily.
Survived Kensei's Bankai without any appearant injuries.

He impressed and seemed like a Top Dog.

What happened then?
Kubo used him to shield Aizen from Yamamoto by pulling out that stupid Ability outta his Ass with a lame backstory.

I won't deny that the ability was, to whatever extent, a waste of Wonderweiss' potential, but I don't think that it was an ability that the author pulled out of his ass. We at least know that Kubo, like any author, plans ahead. I happened to note that one of the first things Shinji said upon being introduced was "My specialty is reversing things." It's most plausable to say that the author had thusly come up with Shinji's Shikai ability in the character design several hundred chapters before he ever used it.

Wonderweiss being a modified Arrancar at the expense of all personality and thought makes sense. The strange thing about Wonderweiss was always that he didn't seem capable of thought or speech. No other Arrancar acted that way. So, Aizen modifying him explains it perfectly, and Aizen modifying him to fight Yamamoto makes sense. It at least means that Yamamoto is actually the most powerful Soul Reaper. In that regard, I think of it more as the author not making anyone more powerful than Yamamoto, because Yamamoto was the leader of the Gotei 13 for a millenia. While Wonderweiss didn't serve his own purpose, his Resurreccion served the purpose of expositioning or demonstrating to the reader Yamamoto's vast capability when his spiritual powers are restricted and his willingness to protect innocents and sacrifice himself.

[Vivi]

Hey, maybe I found how Tsukishima's effect can be reversed.

Yukio's Threat remember?
TV Crew,Chopper,Fire Brigade,Cops.

Sure he might be wanted.
But I think there might be more to it.

I understand Cops,Chopper and TV Crew but even the Fire Brigade will be inconvenient?

Exposed.....I wonder if there is more to it.

[Wind Style Naruto]

Originally Posted by Vivi

Hey, maybe I found how Tsukishima's effect can be reversed.

Yukio's Threat remember?
TV Crew,Chopper,Fire Brigade,Cops.

Sure he might be wanted.
But I think there might be more to it.

I understand Cops,Chopper and TV Crew but even the Fire Brigade will be inconvenient?

Exposed.....I wonder if there is more to it.

Well there was a fire because Chad hit and blew up the gas engine or whatever is that thing you have under house in the basement that if critically damage or overheats can cause an fire and maybe an explosion?

[Vivi]

Originally Posted by Wind Style Naruto

Well there was a fire because Chad hit and blew up the gas engine or whatever is that thing you have under house in the basement that if critically damage or overheats can cause an fire and maybe an explosion?

No.
Yukio was referring to things being inconvenient for Tsukishima.

As said:
I understand Cops,Chopper and TV Crew.
But even the Fire Brigade?

Can't seem to find a Link how it might expose him.

Oh and I forgot the People arriving to the Scene.

[deidara330]

This is apparently a wall of text. Observation, speculation, and eradication ensue.

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Vivi

Hey, maybe I found how Tsukishima's effect can be reversed.

Yukio's Threat remember?
TV Crew,Chopper,Fire Brigade,Cops.

Sure he might be wanted.
But I think there might be more to it.

I understand Cops,Chopper and TV Crew but even the Fire Brigade will be inconvenient?

Exposed.....I wonder if there is more to it.

There's a lot more to it, and in the thick of it all there's an answer to reversing Tsukishima's power.

After using the Substitute Badge, Ichigo heard people in Soul Society talking, one of them being Rukia. Ginjo observed. One must wonder whether this is due to Ichigo's use of the badge or if this is a function Ichigo had not yet realized, and if it is, Ginjo's observation is recognition. Ginjo also has a Substitute Badge, something he managed to take after Tsukishima had attacked the Substitute Soul Reaper. One may assume he took it as a momento, but Ginjo keeps a lid on his feelings. If he knew that a Substitute Badge could communicate, he could've taken it to keep contact with the Soul Society or simply to spy on it.

For the mystery, there's simply a lot more to the Badge than we know. Uryu knows something about the badge, because he showed a brief contemplation at the end of the Soul Society Arc, and I doubt it was purposeless. Uryu is the only one who isn't affected in the same way as everyone else and the only one who isn't at Tsukishima's mansion. Is it possible the Badge itself is the key to avoiding Tsukishima's power?

Xcution was certainly in Karakura once before. Both Ginjo and Tsukishima know that Ichigo's father, Isshin, is a Soul Reaper, and both know of Ichigo's former powers. Ginjo in particular has knowledge of the after-effects of the Final Getsuga Tensho, and this is a move that we know that Isshin knows. Ginjo also doesn't trust Urahara, however, an accomplice in Isshin taking residence at Karakura.

When Isshin and Urahara meet again after Isshin kills Grand Fisher, which I believe they state is the first time they've met in 20 years, Isshin makes several statements that would imply he lost his powers because of an ability, most likely the Final Getsuga Tensho. Isshin says the only thing he regrets was his inability to save his wife on the night she died. He would've done so if he could, but if he used the Final Getsuga Tensho it's not likely that he would've had the power to do it by then.

Isshin is also the reason Ginjo and Tsukishima would know that Ichigo's powers can be restored. Isshin got them back himself. Karin must know, because the way she spoke implied that Urahara had told her of the possibility that Ichigo could regain his powers. One person we also know has ties to Isshin, however, is Ryuken.

When Isshin sees Ryuken in the training basement, after Uryu left for Hueco Mundo, Ryuken commented how his powers had returned. Ryuken knew that Isshin was a Soul Reaper, but in addition that he had lost his powers. If Ginjo and Tsukishima do have something to do with Isshin's arrival in the human world, loss of powers, and such, then Ryuken is likely to have had a tie with them as well, which might possibly explain what Uryu would know of the Substitute Badge and why he's affected differently.

However, I see a timeline problem. Isshin hasn't been a Soul Reaper in 20 years, but given Uryu's age and the ages of those currently in Xcution, as well as Ichigo's age and the probable time Isshin would've met Masaki, the center of all this wouldn't have been as long as 20 years ago, but rather shorter. Then again, I'm not as good with ages, and these are all people with supernatural abilities. But if, at the time Xcution was in Karakura, Isshin had already lost his powers, Urahara played a key factor in the events that went down.

Tsukishima has a scar on his face. We can assume that he gained it after killing members of Xcution, since that's the most likely time that someone would attack and injure him in such a way, but even though Ginjo would seem the most likely to have done it, it could've just as well been Urahara or even Isshin.

Then there's the fact that, as you said, Yukio seems to know the bit about Tsukishima's past that would make him want to stay in the shadows. If Urahara or Isshin still intend to harm him, publicity would be a bad thing, and Yukio may have been just as observant of Urahara and Isshin's actions in history as Ginjo himself.

But none of this alludes to Ginjo's character writing in Volume 50, which reads as follows:

"Time always encroaches from behind,
Raising a howl as it flows and ebbs away.
Give up,
As time seems to wash away your beautiful past,
And tears away your fangs.
Do not look forward,
Your hope encroaches from behind,
There is nothing but darkness in the muddy stream."

So what could this mean? Where it says "Tears away your fangs", I would infer that to mean Ginjo losing a power of sorts. Perhaps because of Urahara? When Isshin and Urahara spoke, Urahara said that it would destroy Ichigo's future, and Isshin painfully told Urahara he would proceed. Then an unseen Soul Reaper assisted. The title of the last chapter also happened to be "Sheathebreaker" and showed Isshin wielding some type of blade. It may be that, because Tsukishima desires Ichigo's power, Isshin and Urahara intend to remove it in a manner much similar to what they may have done to Ginjo as well. Is it possible Ginjo himself was the Subsitute Soul Reaper?

I imagine this will all connect in a "Turn Back the Pendulum"-esque flashback.

[Vivi]

Originally Posted by deidara330

Spoiler:

There's a lot more to it, and in the thick of it all there's an answer to reversing Tsukishima's power.

After using the Substitute Badge, Ichigo heard people in Soul Society talking, one of them being Rukia. Ginjo observed. One must wonder whether this is due to Ichigo's use of the badge or if this is a function Ichigo had not yet realized, and if it is, Ginjo's observation is recognition. Ginjo also has a Substitute Badge, something he managed to take after Tsukishima had attacked the Substitute Soul Reaper. One may assume he took it as a momento, but Ginjo keeps a lid on his feelings. If he knew that a Substitute Badge could communicate, he could've taken it to keep contact with the Soul Society or simply to spy on it.

For the mystery, there's simply a lot more to the Badge than we know. Uryu knows something about the badge, because he showed a brief contemplation at the end of the Soul Society Arc, and I doubt it was purposeless. Uryu is the only one who isn't affected in the same way as everyone else and the only one who isn't at Tsukishima's mansion. Is it possible the Badge itself is the key to avoiding Tsukishima's power?

Xcution was certainly in Karakura once before. Both Ginjo and Tsukishima know that Ichigo's father, Isshin, is a Soul Reaper, and both know of Ichigo's former powers. Ginjo in particular has knowledge of the after-effects of the Final Getsuga Tensho, and this is a move that we know that Isshin knows. Ginjo also doesn't trust Urahara, however, an accomplice in Isshin taking residence at Karakura.

When Isshin and Urahara meet again after Isshin kills Grand Fisher, which I believe they state is the first time they've met in 20 years, Isshin makes several statements that would imply he lost his powers because of an ability, most likely the Final Getsuga Tensho. Isshin says the only thing he regrets was his inability to save his wife on the night she died. He would've done so if he could, but if he used the Final Getsuga Tensho it's not likely that he would've had the power to do it by then.

Isshin is also the reason Ginjo and Tsukishima would know that Ichigo's powers can be restored. Isshin got them back himself. Karin must know, because the way she spoke implied that Urahara had told her of the possibility that Ichigo could regain his powers. One person we also know has ties to Isshin, however, is Ryuken.

When Isshin sees Ryuken in the training basement, after Uryu left for Hueco Mundo, Ryuken commented how his powers had returned. Ryuken knew that Isshin was a Soul Reaper, but in addition that he had lost his powers. If Ginjo and Tsukishima do have something to do with Isshin's arrival in the human world, loss of powers, and such, then Ryuken is likely to have had a tie with them as well, which might possibly explain what Uryu would know of the Substitute Badge and why he's affected differently.

However, I see a timeline problem. Isshin hasn't been a Soul Reaper in 20 years, but given Uryu's age and the ages of those currently in Xcution, as well as Ichigo's age and the probable time Isshin would've met Masaki, the center of all this wouldn't have been as long as 20 years ago, but rather shorter. Then again, I'm not as good with ages, and these are all people with supernatural abilities. But if, at the time Xcution was in Karakura, Isshin had already lost his powers, Urahara played a key factor in the events that went down.

Tsukishima has a scar on his face. We can assume that he gained it after killing members of Xcution, since that's the most likely time that someone would attack and injure him in such a way, but even though Ginjo would seem the most likely to have done it, it could've just as well been Urahara or even Isshin.

Then there's the fact that, as you said, Yukio seems to know the bit about Tsukishima's past that would make him want to stay in the shadows. If Urahara or Isshin still intend to harm him, publicity would be a bad thing, and Yukio may have been just as observant of Urahara and Isshin's actions in history as Ginjo himself.

But none of this alludes to Ginjo's character writing in Volume 50, which reads as follows:

"Time always encroaches from behind,
Raising a howl as it flows and ebbs away.
Give up,
As time seems to wash away your beautiful past,
And tears away your fangs.
Do not look forward,
Your hope encroaches from behind,
There is nothing but darkness in the muddy stream."

So what could this mean? Where it says "Tears away your fangs", I would infer that to mean Ginjo losing a power of sorts. Perhaps because of Urahara? When Isshin and Urahara spoke, Urahara said that it would destroy Ichigo's future, and Isshin painfully told Urahara he would proceed. Then an unseen Soul Reaper assisted. The title of the last chapter also happened to be "Sheathebreaker" and showed Isshin wielding some type of blade. It may be that, because Tsukishima desires Ichigo's power, Isshin and Urahara intend to remove it in a manner much similar to what they may have done to Ginjo as well. Is it possible Ginjo himself was the Subsitute Soul Reaper?

I imagine this will all connect in a "Turn Back the Pendulum"-esque flashback.

Spoiler:

[Sparky]

Every thing is not going as Tsukishima had planned but that is why he has Chad and Orihime.

Orihime will probably heal Tsukishima's arm and Ichigo will freak out like always and attack Tsukishima, Chad stops, and Ichigo has an panic attack.

That is what think will happen next chapter.

Is it me or eversince this arc started Ichigo has been freakin out more than usual. Hes never been like this in the past. He was rather calm in tough situations and even when his friends were in danger he never went ballistic like this.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Vivi

For messing with his Friends turning them against him after attacking them as well.
Now Ichigo looks like the bad Guy.As well as the crazy one who for no reason is fighting with his Cousin Shuu.

Also in the hopes that by killing Tsukishima that his Friends return to normal.

I'm in the hopes that killing Tsukihima DOESN'T bring his friends to normal.

Cause then what does Ichigo do?

Spoiler:

Get help from Aizen of course!

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Vivi

Because WW was one of the most Mysterious Characters.
We knew nothing of him.

Also adding in that he lived for so long already showed he was special.
IIRC:
He outlasted every Espada.
People were suspicious on why he lived for so long.
Especially considering we hadn't seen his Resurreccion.

Also:
We know he was marked down as being Espada level.
Hence him blitzing Ukitake and Starrk mentioning:
Aizen is sick of waiting.

Basically WW was hyped to be some Miracle Weapon at Espada Level.

Another point is indeed his mindabsenceness.
People speculated it went so far that he would be at a Point where he couldn't differ between Enemy and Friend anymore.

Basically it was predictable WW will do something special.
Though really noone thought of him as a Fire Extinguisher.

I dunno. I think being a fire extinguisher is more useful than a "miracle weapon". I mean Captain Yamamoto just burns stuff like a crazy pyro.
I think it's better that Wonderbread was used to counter Captain Yamamoto then be some flashy weapon that was ultimately useless.

Personally I'm glad he was just a fire extinguisher cause I never really cared about Wonderbread. He was just annoying.

[deidara330]

Originally Posted by Sparky

Every thing is not going as Tsukishima had planned but that is why he has Chad and Orihime.

Orihime will probably heal Tsukishima's arm and Ichigo will freak out like always and attack Tsukishima, Chad stops, and Ichigo has an panic attack.

That is what think will happen next chapter.

Is it me or eversince this arc started Ichigo has been freakin out more than usual. Hes never been like this in the past. He was rather calm in tough situations and even when his friends were in danger he never went ballistic like this.

Before he ever had powers, Ichigo wanted to protect those around him. In a flashback chapter, Ichigo realized the spirits he could see were disappearing and he couldn't do anything to change it. He wanted to lose his powers, and if he couldn't, he wanted to be strong enough to protect them. Now he's powerless and he's unable to protect any of his friends, losing them to something he simply can't stop. Even though he's got powers back now, he's still mentally affected from not having any and from being at the mercy of people he can't completely trust or people who want to harm those close to him.

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

I'm in the hopes that killing Tsukihima DOESN'T bring his friends to normal.

Cause then what does Ichigo do?

Spoiler:

Get help from Aizen of course!

I don't see how Aizen could help, and even if he could, I don't see why Urahara and Isshin would let that happen.

I think I've got an idea about who the Soul Reaper working with Isshin and Urahara is. Ginjo told Ichigo about the Substitute Soul Reaper Xcution used before him, someone who was also born from a human and a Soul Reaper. We know the Substitute was killed, but what about the Substitute's Soul Reaper parent? This parent could've been like Isshin and raised his kid in the human world, or the parent could've come, had a kid with someone, and then left without realizing what happened. Either way, the Substitute came to realize his powers and collaborate with the Soul Society, so if his Soul Reaper parent didn't raise him, then he could've met them at some point or the parent could've found out about him.

Whether or not the Soul Reaper was also involved in the mass-murder of members of Xcution, he must've also known at some point that his/her son was killed, and by Tsukishima. The Soul Reaper now working with Urahara and Isshin could be that person, looking for revenge. That could explain Vivi's suspicion about Yukio's warning to Tsukishima; The publicity means the Substitute's Soul Reaper parent might find out where Tsukishima is and go after him. And coincidentally enough, it was only a short time after this attack that the Soul Reaper made an appearance.

[Troll Master]

Hot damn Tsukishima didn't see that coming.

He probably did so that is why he brought Chad and Orihime into this.

[Wooster]

Look Bleach is actually good. Well done Kubo.

I stand up and cheer if Ichigo has to kill either Chad or Orihime. Still have to say Ichigo's Power Ranger suit look so silly.

[deidara330]

Theory: Riruka and Moe are the only two people following Tsukishima that aren't being manipulated by Book of the End.

Spoiler:

(Note: I call the effect of Tsukishima's "Book of the End" on others "Bookmarking" because I find it easier to describe that way.)

If this mess goes on a bit longer, it may prove important. Moe, for one, simply seems to have acted too strangely for him to be following Tsukishima just because of Book of the End. I really don't have more proof than that, but from the author's perspective, I don't see why Tsukishima's only post-Xcution follower should be one he bookmarked.

Then Riruka. I believe that Riruka is willingly going along with Tsukishima's plan. Why? Because she was never truly with Xcution. When introduced into the series, Riruka outright says that Ginjo hasn't convinced her of anything and she's not following him. We know that Xcution's goal is for its members to get rid of Fullbring, but Riruka has never shown any sympathy with that. Riruka, in contrast to the other members of Xcution, is loud and outspoken, and is so far the only member of Xcution to give a unique view on what Fullbring actually is.

Riruka says that Fullbring is a power of love. No one else in Xcution has described the power this way or has given any portrayel of Xcution than Ginjo's basic expositionary description of it. The thing is, Riruka loves cute things and says she wants to keep searching for more and more of them. If she considers Fullbring a power of love, why would she want to get rid of it like the rest of Xcution? She probably doesn't. She's already said she isn't following the group's current leader, Ginjo, and she hates taking any sort of orders from him. So why does she stay?

For that matter, why did she join Xcution in the first place? We know that Tsukishima was the leader of Xcution at the time that all its current members had joined, so my guess is Riruka didn't join Xcution because of its goal, but because of Tsukishima. When Ginjo spoke about what he believed Tsukishima's power to be, the manipulation of a person's past, he said he could make himself a lover in that person's past, and next to that line was the image of Riruka. Riruka certainly has feelings for Ichigo now, but there's nothing to say she didn't have feelings for Tsukishima in the past, or even that she no longer does.

So Riruka had feelings for Tsukishima and doesn't sympathize with Xcution's goal or follow its current leader well. Why does it mean Riruka isn't under the influence of Book of the End now? One would assume that despite prior feelings, they would've died along with the Substitute Shinigami and members of Xcution that Tsukishima killed. Well, for one, I believe that Tsukishima left the members of Xcution alive for a reason. If his only aim at that time was murder, he would've killed all of them. Instead, he left five alive. Why?

My guess is that he left most of them alive because their abilities would help in training a future Substitute for their assistance, one which he would use for the completion of his ultimate goal. But I think he left Ginjo, Riruka, and possibly Yukio alive for more specific reasons. Riruka, in particular, so that when Xcution found a new Substitute for him, he could use her as a spy.

I do believe that there was a spy in Xcution. Tsukishima's goal, through his mannerisms and actions, should be the completion of Ichigo's powers, since all his attacks so far have spurred Ichigo's training to move faster, and in the end, Ichigo and Ginjo are the two people he hasn't bookmarked. But the timing's too perfect. After Uryu was attacked, Ichigo contacted Xcution, and the training began the very next day. If his goal is what I think it is, attacking Uryu worked as perfectly as it should've. But why did Tsukishima attack Uryu the very same day Xcution had contacted Ichigo? He could simply be that good at watching their movements from a distance, or Riruka let him know.

It's also a recurring pattern. Same day the training starts, Orihime gets attacked. Same day Ichigo's training moves to the next step, Tsukishima pays a direct visit to Xcution's hideout, which Ginjo assumes he found through Reiatsu tracing. I doubt it. And then, right after Ichigo's Fullbring reaches its completion, Tsukishima bookmarks Ichigo's family, friends, allies, and employer. There had to have been a spy in Xcution, and Riruka is the most likely suspect since her personality doesn't fit Xcution's goals and she probably had prior feelings for Tsukishima. She even became increasingly moody and quiet after Tsukishima showed up at Xcution's headquarters.

So I say Riruka betrayed Xcution. She became a spy for Tsukishima and supplied him with information on Ichigo's training and the location of Xcution's hideout, and now she is working for Tsukishima willingly, without having been bookmarked by him.

I honestly didn't expect this to become a wall of text.

[Wind Style Naruto]

Anyway back on topic.

Kubo must have an arm fetish this is like the 10th arm in Bleach to cut off or removed.

[tsuki]

Well you can't swing a sword without an arm, so it is an obvious target.

[Vivi]

Originally Posted by tsuki

Well you can't swing a sword without an arm, so it is am obvious target.

Would be true if it would be the correct arm.XD

Ichigo cut off Tsukishima's left arm though he is right handed.

[Wind Style Naruto]

Originally Posted by tsuki

Well you can't swing a sword without an arm, so it is an obvious target.

Then would make sense if Ichigo had cut off the arm that had Tsukishima's sword in it.