Spoiler So how did he duplicate the Rinnegan?

[Jinchiruuki]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

That makes a bit more sense then copying Nagato's technique, I believe. Not to mention his access to all their Jinchirukis probably gives him a degree of influence over them.

Exactly. It's the only way I see this being an effective move for him. It could be said it is Shisui's sharingan unique ability that is being multiplied. That same ability that he used on Yagura.

This is going to be soo hax.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

The only reason I'm really hearing is that Madara gave them the eyes the same way Nagato made his paths.

Difference is, Madara isn't the one summoned those Jinchiruki. He didn't bring them back, nor does he have the control over them that the original sumoner would have.

So it's not like they are an extension of himself. (Nagato also used rods to control them, if you remember. And they had to be shut down in order for one path or Nagato to be at full power)

How does this apply to Tobi?

Madara is standing right next to them though. Not like he needs to broadcast over a large distance.

[EvL j3st3r]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

The only reason I'm really hearing is that Madara gave them the eyes the same way Nagato made his paths.

Difference is, Madara isn't the one summoned those Jinchiruki. He didn't bring them back, nor does he have the control over them that the original sumoner would have.

So it's not like they are an extension of himself. (Nagato also used rods to control them, if you remember. And they had to be shut down in order for one path or Nagato to be at full power)

How does this apply to Tobi?

hmmm.......may be related to Madara's Sharigan. We have seen Madara control a person and ,more impressively, the nine tails without putting any kind of chakra receiving tool on them.

As far as him using Kabuto's Edo Tensei's.....I'm not sure. It could be that Kabuto is allowing it but that would be a stupid move on Madara's behalf. And I really doubt that's the case since Madara isn't one for mistakes and has already said that he doesn't trust Kabuto.
The only theory I could formulate right now would have to revolve around the Rinnegan. It does arguably have the power to revive souls (Kakashi and the others). Maybe Madara was somehow able to use the Rinnegan to strip command of the souls from Kabuto?.....just some food for thought.

Originally Posted by Nick Tasogare

I think it's just an effect of the Kekkei Genkai itself. I mean, it lets the person create the 6 Paths, why wouldn't said paths have the Rinnegan?

Remember also that Pain's summons had Rinnegan as well. I agree, it's just part of the Technique.

[EvL j3st3r]

sorry for the DP

[Ninyn]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

This just messed with me, not going to lie. I totally believe that he gave Nagato the eyes now, but how did Madara get ahold of 6 more Rinnegans for the Jinchuruki?

Let's start hearing some theories.

i dont think he multiplies them i think he did what nagato did with the six paths but made them 7

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Jinchiruuki

I find that to not be the case however. Nagato was extremely far away when that path was released from the toads stomach. By extremely far I mean still in Amegakure. His vision to that path was also completely shut off, shown by the fact the other paths searched for his body high and low in the beginning of the assault.

He may have been able to continue to send chakra to the recievers when he got there, but that doesn't explain how that path retained the Rinnegan, even when Nagato had no chakra connection to it.

Maybe there was still left over chakra that allowed it to still be Rinnengan.
The chakra transfer may be streaming rather than buffering. Also by the
time they were doing the autopsy on the Animal Path, Nagato was in
Konoha. Most likely they have stored amount of Nagato's chakra that
allows them to retain the Rinnengan even when Nagato is not around.
However they probably need in be range to use like a remote control.
When Nagato isn't around they either don't do anything or act as
automatons most likely.

[kalmeast]

Originally Posted by EvL j3st3r

Yes I've realized these things and I know they poke a hole in my theory....but understand Kalmeast....this same subject puts a hole in your theory as well. Nobody even thought about making a move to salvage the eyes from the dead paths. I find it especially odd that Madara had no intention of hunting down the bodies and taking them. Why wouldn't he? He sure was fixed on getting Nagato's.

I think the reason their eyes didn't fade out is just a plot-hole detail. It's how we know them so it's just how Kishi left them. Kinda like Edo Tensei. The revived persons clothes have nothing to do with their DNA blueprint yet they are summoned in the same outfit we always knew them in.

There is only one set of Rinnegan eyes currently in the story.

Yep...i thought of that hole - as to why no one would go for the other path's rennigan. i just hoped you wouldn't catch it but still...
It's too much a major factor for kishi to ignore or cause a plot hole... saying it's a plot hole is just the easy way out...there's gotta be a reason. though i wont be surprised if that's left unresolved.

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

That makes a bit more sense then copying Nagato's technique, I believe. Not to mention his access to all their Jinchirukis probably gives him a degree of influence over them.

if it wasn't a copy of Nagato's technique, why would Tobi call them "the new SIX PATHS OF PAIN composed entirely of Jinchuriki"...
If Tobi is using Nagato's summon, Gedo Mazo, why is too difficult to believe he's using Nagato's Six path system. It's not copying Nagato, it's just convenient. he could even be the one who gave nagato the idea to begin with.

[mrsticky005]

If the Pain Paths actually had their own individual Rinnengan then both the Allied Shinobi Nations and The Rain Village are all blithering idiots. Konoha had the animal path with it's Rinnengan in possession. They could have done an eye transfer on someone and be able to use the Rinnengan as a weapon. Later after Nagato destroyed Konoha, Madara declared war on the soon to be Allied Shinobi Nations. Since Naruto was on good terms with Konan why not just ask to borrow one of
the Rinnengan. It would have helped greatly in the war. Also Konan knew that
Madara was coming. I can understand not using Nagato's eyes. But what about
the other paths. They weren't anyone special to her. She could have a whole
small army of Rinnengan users and defeat Madara.

But none of them used the Rinnengan. Why? Because there's only one.

[EvL j3st3r]

Originally Posted by kalmeast

Yep...i thought of that hole - as to why no one would go for the other path's rennigan. i just hoped you wouldn't catch it but still... You already know better.
It's too much a major factor for kishi to ignore or cause a plot hole... saying it's a plot hole is just the easy way out...there's gotta be a reason. though i wont be surprised if that's left unresolved.

And being unresolved would make it a plot hole. I'm not trying to take the easy way out.......that's just really what I think will happen. Rinnegan is extremely rare. As far as we know, there is only one set. That's why Madara needed so badly to find Nagato's body. Bc there is no other Rinnegan. So you see, the ripples still being present in the paths bodies after they lost connection with Nagato must be a plot hole. I mean I'm sure Kishi could fill it with some BS reason like "the image burns in and becomes permanent" or anything else he might come up with on the fly, but that's all it would be and I'm betting he won't find that necessary. Other than Yahiko, we only knew the paths to have Rinnegan. So changing them back to what they were before would be unfamiliar to us anyways...It wouldn't have been anything special for anyone. If he had changed Yahiko's back....he would have had to design an original look for all the others as well. So I figure he just didn't see it as a worthy cause. Most readers wouldn't even catch something so minor.

[kalmeast]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

If the Pain Paths actually had their own individual Rinnengan then both the Allied Shinobi Nations and The Rain Village are all blithering idiots. Konoha had the animal path with it's Rinnengan in possession. They could have done an eye transfer on someone and be able to use the Rinnengan as a weapon. Later after Nagato destroyed Konoha, Madara declared war on the soon to be Allied Shinobi Nations. Since Naruto was on good terms with Konan why not just ask to borrow one of
the Rinnengan. It would have helped greatly in the war. Also Konan knew that
Madara was coming. I can understand not using Nagato's eyes. But what about
the other paths. They weren't anyone special to her. She could have a whole
small army of Rinnengan users and defeat Madara.

But none of them used the Rinnengan. Why? Because there's only one.

of course...i'm not saying they are actual rennigan with the power of the rikoudo... i just dont think it's a mere reflection. physically it's a rennigan but realistically it possess no power. but hey, i could be wrong too.

edit:

Originally Posted by EvL j3st3r

And being unresolved would make it a plot hole. I'm not trying to take the easy way out.......that's just really what I think will happen. Rinnegan is extremely rare. As far as we know, there is only one set. That's why Madara needed so badly to find Nagato's body. Bc there is no other Rinnegan. So you see, the ripples still being present in the paths bodies after they lost connection with Nagato must be a plot hole. I mean I'm sure Kishi could fill it with some BS reason like "the image burns in and becomes permanent" or anything else he might come up with on the fly, but that's all it would be and I'm betting he won't find that necessary.

well at this point...i'd agree with...
lol, would know better not to assume u wouldn't catch.

[EvL j3st3r]

Originally Posted by kalmeast

of course...i'm not saying they are actual rennigan with the power of the rikoudo... i just dont think it's a mere reflection. physically it's a rennigan but realistically it possess no power. but hey, i could be wrong too.

edit:


well at this point...i'd agree with...
lol, would know better not to assume u wouldn't catch.

lol. I kinda did the same thing when I posted that first statement. I hoped no one would mention about the "disconnected" Pain bodies.

anyway, from what you said above it seems our opinions aren't so different after all. We may have had a mis-communication. Now that I think about it....I believe it would be better if I said they are a projection rather then saying they are a reflection. When I said reflection I didn't actually mean they're useless. I think they have power......just not power of their own. I'll explain. Nagato's paths had a PROJECTION of his own Rinnegan.....in turn...the power that the eyes of Pain demonstrated was linked back to the original casters eyes (Nagato's Rinnegan). Everything you saw Pain's eyes do...it was actually Nagato's eyes projecting through Pain that done those things.

I guess I chose to say reflection bc I believe that the eyes we saw in the Pain bodies are probably the actual image of Nagato's eyes due to the projection.

Did I explain in an understandable manner, or did I just make that sound really complex and confusing?

[kalmeast]

Originally Posted by EvL j3st3r

lol. I kinda did the same thing when I posted that first statement. I hoped no one would mention about the "disconnected" Pain bodies.

anyway, from what you said above it seems our opinions aren't so different after all. We may have had a mis-communication. Now that I think about it....I believe it would be better if I said they are a projection rather then saying they are a reflection. When I said reflection I didn't actually mean they're useless. I think they have power......just not power of their own. I'll explain. Nagato's paths had a PROJECTION of his own Rinnegan.....in turn...the power that the eyes of Pain demonstrated was linked back to the original casters eyes (Nagato's Rinnegan). Everything you saw Pain's eyes do...it was actually Nagato's eyes projecting through Pain that done those things.

I guess I chose to say reflection bc I believe that the eyes we saw in the Pain bodies are probably the actual image of Nagato's eyes due to the projection.

Did I explain in an understandable manner, or did I just make that sound really complex and confusing?

i agree...it's understandable. A projection. In other words different from the reflection the summoning animals received under Nagato's control. (remember they also had rennigan)

That mean, with the summonings, it's like when Tobi took control of 9T, - his sharingan reflected as a means of control.

However with the pains, it's a projection... (is that what you're saying)?
now my question to you would be this:
* Do you think Nagato resurrected the bodies of the 6-paths of Pein like he did Kakashi and the rest?

[EvL j3st3r]

Originally Posted by kalmeast

i agree...it's understandable. A projection. In other words different from the reflection the summoning animals received under Nagato's control. (remember they also had rennigan)

That mean, with the summonings, it's like when Tobi took control of 9T, - his sharingan reflected as a means of control.

However with the pains, it's a projection... (is that what you're saying)?
now my question to you would be this:
* Do you think Nagato resurrected the bodies of the 6-paths of Pein like he did Kakashi and the rest?

Yes projection is definitely a better word. Tho I meant the same thing when I said reflection........I never really thought of the dojutsu the summons have as being a different effect from what the Pain bodies had.....but.....I guess that does make more sense.

But no. I don't think he resurrected them. 1 simple reason. Yahiko was dear to him. If he could have had Yahiko back he wouldn't have turned him into a mindless Pain body puppet.

I think his soul reviving technique probably has some kind of time-limit pertaining to time of death. Either that or he didn't know how to do it when Yahiko died and when he learned the technique years later he elected not to revive Yahiko for some reason.

[kalmeast]

Originally Posted by EvL j3st3r

Yes projection is definitely a better word. Tho I meant the same thing when I said reflection........I never really thought of the dojutsu the summons have as being a different effect from what the Pain bodies had.....but.....I guess that does make more sense.

But no. I don't think he resurrected them. 1 simple reason. Yahiko was dear to him. If he could have had Yahiko back he wouldn't have turned him into a mindless Pain body puppet.

I think his soul reviving technique probably has some kind of time-limit pertaining to time of death. Either that or he didn't know how to do it when Yahiko died and when he learned the technique years later he elected not to revive Yahiko for some reason.

hahaha...very well said... it's exactly 100% what i was thinking but i had to ask you first and you didn't disappoint. Good.
So this makes a difference b/n the summoned animals (because they are alive) and the resurrected 6 Pein bodies (which are dead and soul-less). Like you said, these were mere puppets.

So compared to an actual puppet master jutsu
* instead of chakra treads, Nagato uses the chakra receivers to move them & displace chakra
* instead of the puppets actual soul, nagato is using the rennigan (these are what enables the puppet to use jutsu) betterstill the rennigan is the extension of himself in those dead bodies.

This brings us closer to the current issue... Unlike Nagato's puppets which have no souls, Tobi's Jinchuriki's have souls. Which makes the difference.

Best explanation so far is a plot hole. cus it's confusing.
- are you able to think of anything that i'm not catching yet as to how nagato's Peins were never alive to begin with as compared to Tobi's Peinis?

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by kalmeast

of course...i'm not saying they are actual rennigan with the power of the rikoudo... i just dont think it's a mere reflection. physically it's a rennigan but realistically it possess no power. but hey, i could be wrong too.

edit:


well at this point...i'd agree with...
lol, would know better not to assume u wouldn't catch.

This is the way I see it. They have normal eyes. Nagato/Madara transfers his chakra. His chakra causes them to look and function as the Rinnengan do.

[EvL j3st3r]

Originally Posted by kalmeast

hahaha...very well said... it's exactly 100% what i was thinking but i had to ask you first and you didn't disappoint. Good.
So this makes a difference b/n the summoned animals (because they are alive) and the resurrected 6 Pein bodies (which are dead and soul-less). Like you said, these were mere puppets.

So compared to an actual puppet master jutsu
* instead of chakra treads, Nagato uses the chakra receivers to move them & displace chakra
* instead of the puppets actual soul, nagato is using the rennigan (these are what enables the puppet to use jutsu) betterstill the rennigan is the extension of himself in those dead bodies.

This brings us closer to the current issue... Unlike Nagato's puppets which have no souls, Tobi's Jinchuriki's have souls. Which makes the difference.

Best explanation so far is a plot hole. cus it's confusing.
- are you able to think of anything that i'm not catching yet as to how nagato's Peins were never alive to begin with as compared to Tobi's Peinis?

^red.
You may want to respell that.

Anyway.....that's a very nice observation about a difference between Nagato and Madara's situations. Props to you on catching that so soon. I can see that having some very significant consequences down the road. Very sharp my friend.

I can't really answer your question since I hadn't even considered that difference until you mentioned it. Let's work on a theory. I'll I.M. you.

[kalmeast]

Originally Posted by EvL j3st3r

^red.
You may want to respell that.

Anyway.....that's a very nice observation about a difference between Nagato and Madara's situations. Props to you on catching that so soon. I can see that having some very significant consequences down the road. Very sharp my friend.

I can't really answer your question since I hadn't even considered that difference until you mentioned it. Let's work on a theory. I'll I.M. you.

lol... i was cracking up...typo..but let's leave it as that

fantastic...yes, let's work on this theory.