Hinata Vs Sakura

[Kazumi Saitama]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Besides the fact that gentle fist is a faster tai jutsu than anything Sakura has, and Sakura has never shown the ability to avoid quick in your face attacks...

How is Sakura going to heal her self with chakra when her chakra is shut off?

LT seems to forget that a single dodge does not contribute to multiple dodges. I have gone over this and this chick fails to comprehend.

[Lady Tsunade]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Besides the fact that gentle fist is a faster tai jutsu than anything Sakura has, and Sakura has never shown the ability to avoid quick in your face attacks...

How is Sakura going to heal her self with chakra when her chakra is shut off?

Yes it is, generally. Hence Neji being so fast. Hinata? Nah, Hinata has never shown to be particulary fast, even with her gentle fist style. Sakura avoided quick, in her face attacks from Iron Sand blocks and reacted well to Sasoris puppets. Hinata dodged a few strikes from Part I Neji who wasn't even trying before being hit somewhere vital and nearly dying. As for Part II, well, she's never shown much speed there either. Lion Fists wasn't very fast, nor was Air Wall Palm much faster. I should also note, the only way for Tsunade to have trained Sakura to dodge, was with ' in your face attacks ' , because taijutsu wise that's all Tsunade has. She is obviously able to avoid attacks close up and parry to a degree.

Chapter 79, page 7, Hinata taps Neji with her gentle fist, but apparently his chakra points aren't totally sealed off, since he can still throw strikes. She should still be able to heal in the chance she is hit, Regardless of anything, even without Sakuras great strength, her base strength is still great. Chapter 245 page 18 proves this.

@Kaz: Speed Sakura has shown>Speed Hinata has shown. Sakura was trained to try and avoid all of Tsunades attacks, while it was off panel, she has obviously done it at some point to have heightened her evasive abilities. Sakura has her on panel speed feats on top of this. For her to not be able to parry and dodge attacks one after another would be retarded, so no - I disagree with you and always will.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

Yes it is, generally. Hence Neji being so fast. Hinata? Nah, Hinata has never shown to be particulary fast, even with her gentle fist style. Sakura avoided quick, in her face attacks from Iron Sand blocks and reacted well to Sasoris puppets. Hinata dodged a few strikes from Part I Neji who wasn't even trying before being hit somewhere vital and nearly dying. As for Part II, well, she's never shown much speed there either. Lion Fists wasn't very fast, nor was Air Wall Palm much faster. I should also note, the only way for Tsunade to have trained Sakura to dodge, was with ' in your face attacks ' , because taijutsu wise that's all Tsunade has. She is obviously able to avoid attacks close up and parry to a degree.

Chapter 79, page 7, Hinata taps Neji with her gentle fist, but apparently his chakra points aren't totally sealed off, since he can still throw strikes. She should still be able to heal in the chance she is hit, Regardless of anything, even without Sakuras great strength, her base strength is still great. Chapter 245 page 18 proves this.

It was faster than any attack of Sakura's including Part 2. Sakura hit giant pieces of Iron Sand. That wasn't fast, that was stength. The puppet's weren't that fast in the beginning. At the end, Chiyo was protecting Sakura for the final gambit. We don't know how exactly the training proceeded. Besides Tsunade's attacks are slow. Sakura learned to dodge, that is it.

Hinata got pretty close to Pain with her Lion crap. Sure he may have let her, but faster than anything Sakura has ever done. Neji didn't allow Hinata to hit him to do damage. He is good after all. It also may be Hinata cannot see chakra points, but she will still do internal damage. As Hinata is not going to just let Sakura take a five minute breather to heal herself, Sakura healing abilities are still moot. It is not like she is Kabuto and can self heal during an attack.

Edit: Kazumi taking down Sakura too? I think I am in love. <3

[Bacon]

Shorter version: Sakura's only abilities(Haven't read the newer manga, so don't bite my head off you narutards) are based in healing and strength. The former being useless due to the ease that Hinata can cause damage with minimal effort and the latter shouldn't even be up for debate; Hyugas can still one thing right and that is kick fanny in Taijutsu combat.

I don't remember seeing sakura with the reflexes or coordination asof Hinata back in part one.

Edit: The amount of chakra needed to heal a ruptured kidney far exceeds the effort needed to use the Gentle fist style of combat. This is assuming that Hinata's blow doesn't cut off Sakura's chakra network.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Bacon

Shorter version: Sakura's only abilities(Haven't read the newer manga, so don't bite my head off you narutards) are based in healing and strength. The former being useless due to the ease that Hinata can cause damage with minimal effort and the latter shouldn't even be up for debate; Hyugas can still one thing right and that is kick fanny in Taijutsu combat.

I don't remember seeing sakura with the reflexes or coordination as Hinata back in part one.

Edit: The amount of chakra needed to heal a ruptured kidney far exceeds the effort needed to use the Gentle fist style of combat. This is assuming that Hinata's blow doesn't cut off Sakura's chakra network.

You put it simply Bacon, but you got it exactly. Way to be succinct. Especially the edit.

[Bacon]

I sense Sarcasm. >.>

[Lady Tsunade]

Originally Posted by Wooster

It was faster than any attack of Sakura's including Part 2. Sakura hit giant pieces of Iron Sand. That wasn't fast, that was stength. The puppet's weren't that fast in the beginning. At the end, Chiyo was protecting Sakura for the final gambit. We don't know how exactly the training proceeded. Besides Tsunade's attacks are slow. Sakura learned to dodge, that is it.

Hinata got pretty close to Pain with her Lion crap. Sure he may have let her, but faster than anything Sakura has ever done. Neji didn't allow Hinata to hit him to do damage. He is good after all. It also may be Hinata cannot see chakra points, but she will still do internal damage. As Hinata is not going to just let Sakura take a five minute breather to heal herself, Sakura healing abilities are still moot. It is not like she is Kabuto and can self heal during an attack.

But dodging it was. Chapter 269 page 17. And no, it wasn't. Chapter 268 page 8, Chapter 421 page 1-2, hell, even Chapter 71 page 18. Sakuras attacks are just as fast if not faster. Tsunades attacks are a hell of a lot faster than Hinatas, you can't even compare the speed of the two, for Sakura to dodge physical strikes from Tsunade is a credit to her, and like I said, to enhance her evasive abilities she had to learn to dodge. She didn't do that by being punched in the face over and over.

She ran in a straight line and got close to Pein, doesn't prove much. Sakura travelled in a straight line and got close to KN4 :/ Proof that he didn't allow it, I have never seen Neji possess an ability to stop gentle fist effecting his body. She will do internal damage regarding she lands hits, so far I'm not even convinced with her speed. Five minutes? Slight exaggeration there. Basic wounds can be healed almost instantly by Sakura, Chapter 421 page 3 iirc. As for greater wounds like getting stabbed in the chest, she can heal that rather quickly given the pain she would be in like the Sasori fight, also note she can heal such wounds with one hand like she does with Karin in Chapter 484 pages 1-2. She has at least on arm to defend herself with. Her healing abilities are not worth ' moot ' .

[TheBlackChidori]

Do I need to start giving numbers and speed feats when Hinata rushed Deva Path?

Hinata has Air Palm which keeps Sakura from using any of her "Rawr punch ground" attacks. Sakura's melee accuracy still isn't impressive to me, considering she couldn't land a single swipe on Kakashi who really isn't all that fast.

Hinata also has insane durability feats. Impaled by Pain, flapjacked to the ground, had most of her body Gentle Fisted by neji and continued fighting, as well as the reflexes it took to keep up with him. And apparently now, her speed is great enough that she can attack as fast as Neji as shown by their organized and aptly timed Air Palms.

And in the end, she possesses the Byakugan, by far the best of the doujutsu when it comes to a close-range physical fighter.

Sakura is obviously insanely powerful given the right opponent, but this is a match-up stacked against her.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

@Kaz: Speed Sakura has shown>Speed Hinata has shown. Sakura was trained to try and avoid all of Tsunades attacks, while it was off panel, she has obviously done it at some point to have heightened her evasive abilities. Sakura has her on panel speed feats on top of this. For her to not be able to parry and dodge attacks one after another would be retarded, so no - I disagree with you and always will.

Chick, do not even give me that Sakura trained by Tsunade bullshit. Sakura was trained off panel by Tsunade, so how can you use that as a liable feat? It is all baseless assumptions. Oh, Sakura trained off panel with Tsunade who blatantly stated she was not holding back. A single punch from Tsunade would obliterate Sakura, literally. So, with no prior evasive training, how would Sakura have survived? It is hypothetical bullshit circled around contradiction.

Regarding Gentle Fist, while Hinata may not be as fast as Neji, Gentle Fist is naturally a quick Taijutsu, faster than anything useless Sakura can dodge. So, you stating Sakura can evade Gentle Fist without a ruptured organ makes me laugh. A single hit from Hinata would end Sakura.

DONE.

@Woo, Bacon and TBC: All good posts.

[Frost ninja]

Lets try this again...
437-7, lets view some things
First frame, theres a wide background shot. As you can see, Hinata is no present anywhere in the background from the center to the rim.

Shinra Tiensei on Ma frog, count down from 5. Lets assume a minimum of one second for talking. This means Hinata has to make it from the rim to the center in less than 4 to avoid getting almighty pushed right off the bat.

Assuming the feats are somewhat similar, this means Hinata making it halfway across konoha crater (not including the rim) should be, in all logic, identical to FRS making it 1/3 of the distance of konoha crater in slightly less time.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

But dodging it was. Chapter 269 page 17. And no, it wasn't. Chapter 268 page 8, Chapter 421 page 1-2, hell, even Chapter 71 page 18. Sakuras attacks are just as fast if not faster.

*sigh* I suppose I can humor you and look at your citations.
First Citations : Extremely massive object; therefore, easy to see coming along a linear path. Note slow change in direction due to a little thing called inertia.

Second Citation: A mistake? Saskura does nothing here. It is all Chiyo.

Third Citation: Sakura punches a giant centipede. Yeah I get it she is strong, where is the speed?

Fourth Citation: Genin Sakura...

Nothing like Hinata's speed in hand-to-hand combat. Check out Chapter 79 Page 6. Note those are Neji attacks she is blocking. Page 7 she just whacked Neji. Sure it didn't matter because Neji is a genius, but it is still impressive.

Tsunades attacks are a hell of a lot faster than Hinatas, you can't even compare the speed of the two, for Sakura to dodge physical strikes from Tsunade is a credit to her, and like I said, to enhance her evasive abilities she had to learn to dodge. She didn't do that by being punched in the face over and over.

When has Tsunade's attacks ever been fast? We have only seen her fight once and that was against Kabuto, nothing extremely fast there, and an invalid, Orochimaru.
We don't know how the training occurred, only that it gave Sakura some ability to dodge, but hold.

Let's think about some times Sakura was unable to dodge. Getting whacked by Kabuto's flying body on the Tenchi. He was moving fast but he was very far away to start with. Getting kicked by in the gut by Omoi after Naturo stopped him in the first place. Being unable to throw sleep bombs when Sai grabbed her hands. That's right she couldn't even throw faster than Sai. (I will admit Sai's hands are extremely fast. He did speed blitz draw and smack Sasori and Deidara)
If she can't avoid these single attacks, how is she going to avoid the multiple fists flying at her from Hinata. Also remember the way gentle fist works. Hinata does need to land a direct hit to cause damage. Grazing blows work just fine.

She ran in a straight line and got close to Pein, doesn't prove much. Sakura travelled in a straight line and got close to KN4 :/ Proof that he didn't allow it, I have never seen Neji possess an ability to stop gentle fist effecting his body. She will do internal damage regarding she lands hits, so far I'm not even convinced with her speed. Five minutes? Slight exaggeration there. Basic wounds can be healed almost instantly by Sakura, Chapter 421 page 3 iirc. As for greater wounds like getting stabbed in the chest, she can heal that rather quickly given the pain she would be in like the Sasori fight, also note she can heal such wounds with one hand like she does with Karin in Chapter 484 pages 1-2. She has at least on arm to defend herself with. Her healing abilities are not worth ' moot ' .

She did get to Pain though, who is extremely fast. It was bound by Yamato. That kind of matters. He can if he stops Hinata chakra flow.
Five minutes is an exaggeration, to point out Sakura will not even have 5secs to heal herself. Why would Hinata give her that time?
Remember these are internal injuries not something simple like a sword cut. Massive bruises and the like are much harder to heal. If Hinata lands a direct hit, Sakura is done. How will she block Hinata's attack if one hand is occupied healing?

Some characters abilities are just not battle skills. Sakura may have useful skills used as teamwork like healing and massive attacks. But she can't use these when someone is right up in her grill. Hinata is just a horrible opponent for Sakura to go up against. Sakura loses badly and relatively quickly.

[Wooster]

Since Lady Tsunade never responded, can we claim unequivocally that Hinata will always beat Sakura?

[Frost ninja]

Ever since the debate contest, this seems to be the case now. xD

[Shikamaru Nara]

Originally Posted by chidoriroar

one punch from sakura ends hinata, before ino used to be the weakest of the rookie nine but now its hinata

Oh really.

And how do you suppose she tags her without getting her chakra points closed?

@Frosty: That means I win. :LOS

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara

Oh really.

And how do you suppose she tags her without getting her chakra points closed?

@Frosty: That means I win. :LOS

Lolwut.
You were on Kunoichi's side and debated against my points.
Now take me out for ice cream. Wooster won't.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara

Oh really.

And how do you suppose she tags her without getting her chakra points closed?

@Frosty: That means I win. :LOS

Can Hinata seal chakra points? I don't think she can at least this has never been shown.

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

Lolwut.
You were on Kunoichi's side and debated against my points.
Now take me out for ice cream. Wooster won't.

Not until you are 18.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

Lolwut.
You were on Kunoichi's side and debated against my points.
Now take me out for ice cream. Wooster won't.

No. We were doing the first thing ever done in the debate contest. We were taking both people and one of us debates them both cuz we always disagree.

But I have no idea. I might not have done that that round.

Either way, you know. xD

Originally Posted by Wooster

Can Hinata seal chakra points? I don't think she can at least this has never been shown.


Not until you are 18.

She can see them with Byakugan, so why wouldn't she be able to seal them?

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Can Hinata seal chakra points? I don't think she can at least this has never been shown.

Gentle fist is based around pushing chakra into the points to block them.
Hinata's byakugan lets her see chakra points.
She has gentle fist, enough so that she can even pump lion chakra out of her hands.

By all logic, she is capable of doing the same thing.


Temari has never been shown to fly, yet she can channel a controlled funnel and use her fan as an airfoil. By all logic, even without feats, she can fly.


Not until you are 18.

I am. I turned 18 on January 15th.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara

No. We were doing the first thing ever done in the debate contest. We were taking both people and one of us debates them both cuz we always disagree.

But I have no idea. I might not have done that that round.

Either way, you know. xD




She can see them with Byakugan, so why wouldn't she be able to seal them?

Gentle fist is based around pushing chakra into the points to block them.
Hinata's byakugan lets her see chakra points.
She has gentle fist, enough so that she can even pump lion chakra out of her hands.

By all logic, she is capable of doing the same thing.


Temari has never been shown to fly, yet she can channel a controlled funnel and use her fan as an airfoil. By all logic, even without feats, she can fly.

That is where you are both wrong. Reread the Neji v. Hinata battle. Neji is exceptional because he can see chakra points. Remember how shocked everyone was when he sealed off Hinata's chakra. No one thought that could be done. Hinata can see the chakra network and damage internal organs to be sure, but it has never been stated she can see chakra points.

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

I am. I turned 18 on January 15th.

Well, beans. I still think you are too young for me.

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by Wooster

That is where you are both wrong. Reread the Neji v. Hinata battle. Neji is exceptional because he can see chakra points. Remember how shocked everyone was when he sealed off Hinata's chakra. No one thought that could be done. Hinata can see the chakra network and damage internal organs to be sure, but it has never been stated she can see chakra points.

Byakugan allows the user to see chakra points. Reread it again, when the example is given its from hinata's POV.

Neji is exceptional because he is a skilled fighter and is self-taught. Byakugan standard is seeing chakra points.


Well, beans. I still think you are too young for me.

I just want my ice cream