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Old 05-11-2011, 05:31 PM   #41
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

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Originally Posted by HachibiXSenpai View Post
awesome chapter since naruto made it win for me

i agree above, i'm getting tired with peoples complainats about wanting more fighting and yet they complain about that too. haterz gonna hate -_-
Many of us here (in this thread) made little to no mention of wanting more fights. We just want something new.

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Originally Posted by EvL j3st3r View Post
I agree. the story would suck if it were constant fighting. do ppl want a story or a ppv event?

But I still say this chapter would've been much better if Naruto/kyuubi dialogue was much longer and the flashback was much shorter and to the point. Still was a pretty good chapter tho.
Not in total agreement, but this essentially sums up the chapter. More time with 9T, less in flashbacks. I understand having 9T actually showing some intelligence and also seeking to bring light to Naruto's "folly"--grounding him in reality--but did the flashback really have to be even 1/3 its size now? Seems to me like Kishi was just padding out the pages. That either means the next bit of the story would be too large to cram in with this one, or that he has writer's block and hadn't thought out the next bit yet, requiring some filler. If it's the former, maybe he should petition his editor to extend the average page count ; but if it is the latter, nothing can really be suggested aside from asking his helpers for ideas.

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Originally Posted by Vornmusion View Post
Seriously. Went from being "force of nature" status to literally a giant fox that talks status.

Used to think of him like a tsunami or hurricane. I.E A natural disaster, which I know people have referred to the fox as, now he's just another oversized talking animal for all it's worth. Such a shame.
Eh, well, I like him better a little less impersonal and useless and more so as a character... but you're right. Naruto's one-up on 9T was a bit too much. And now he's an animal abuser.
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:41 PM   #42
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

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Eh, well, I like him better a little less impersonal and useless and more so as a character... but you're right. Naruto's one-up on 9T was a bit too much. And now he's an animal abuser.
I preferred him as simply a "force". It set the fox apart from the other oversized animals and even the other tailed beasts. After all, prior to this ten tailed crap, the fox was supposed to be the most powerful. I liked the fox being by all appearances--a demon or "force" of chakra. I have never once seen any theory or fanfic or anything else that ever did the fox correctly when humanizing it. In my opinion, Kishi has done no better in his attempt. But whatever.

I think his abuse of the fox is simply a way for us to asses Narutos power, which is largely pointless since we know Sasuke is going to pull some other power from his ass and it's going to keep following the same cycle as all average rivalries do in manga/anime.
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Old 05-11-2011, 06:05 PM   #43
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

Agreed not ad interesting as the other chapters but still good.
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Old 05-11-2011, 06:22 PM   #44
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

Quote:
I preferred him as simply a "force". It set the fox apart from the other oversized animals and even the other tailed beasts. After all, prior to this ten tailed crap, the fox was supposed to be the most powerful. I liked the fox being by all appearances--a demon or "force" of chakra. I have never once seen any theory or fanfic or anything else that ever did the fox correctly when humanizing it. In my opinion, Kishi has done no better in his attempt. But whatever.

I think his abuse of the fox is simply a way for us to asses Narutos power, which is largely pointless since we know Sasuke is going to pull some other power from his ass and it's going to keep following the same cycle as all average rivalries do in manga/anime. __________________
no offense but I mean....what did you think would happen? obviously Naruto would eventually tame the fox. I'm sure everyone guessed that long ago. And you're right, the Kyuubi was set apart from the other tailed beasts. But you have to understand, the only reason the fox was ever so haxed was to build up other characters for contending with it (Minato, Kushina, Madara, and more than anyone...Naruto).

Some characters only exist to give development or to hype another character. The Kyuubi falls into this category. I mean it does also exist for the same plot reason as the rest of the tailed beasts but the reason it's so far ahead of the other bijuus is so it can be used to hype other characters, mostly Naruto.
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Old 05-11-2011, 06:42 PM   #45
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

Flashbacks and talks, quite interesting but nevertheless Naruto being a flashlight was better.
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Old 05-11-2011, 07:09 PM   #46
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

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Originally Posted by Vornmusion View Post
Calling his premature death now.
Another lost opportunity. Can you imagine if Danzo became the Nine Tails jinchuriki? Their discussions of hate, no all emotions, duty, war and all great matters of the human soul would last for all times.

Plato's The Republic and Kishimoto's The Shinobi would be considered as triumphant equals in all philosophical battles into perpetuity....
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Old 05-11-2011, 07:22 PM   #47
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

It looks like I may be wrong about the Naruto/9-tail alliance I stated weeks ago.Naruto may just keep him on a very tight leash and kick butt his own way.It would make a better ending than letting the 9-tail decide if he would stay in Naruto or be a slave then cease to exist in Madara's plan's....hhhmmmmm?!???
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Old 05-11-2011, 07:56 PM   #48
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

Boy oh boy naruto's becoming a BAMF, yeah the kyuubi lost his swag in this chap but naruto gained alot. It's nice to have them talkin even though it was no fightin the dialog was enuf to keep me entertained.
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Old 05-11-2011, 08:07 PM   #49
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

Quote:
Yori: The bad assness the Kyubi put in this manga was gone the minute Naruto toyed with him.

Vornmusion: Seriously. Went from being "force of nature" status to literally a giant fox that talks status.
You point out that 9T was a force of nature, well that was before he had half of his chakra sealed in the Death Reaper and the remaining half taken from him and now commanded by Naruto. Naruto is now the force of nature, which is why he was able to toy with the fox like that. It doesn't take anything away from 9T, if anything this may be the way Naruto 'tames' 9T so that they work in unison. Not sold on that happening, but what better way to pound the pure mass of hatred into submission than showing that kindness/love is much much more powerful (lame I know, but more implying 9T surrendering to Naruto's power more so than his ideals).


Quote:
Edit: Also this chapter shows Harashima & Madara most likely had the same rivalry-friendship Sasuke & Naruto has.
Are you implying that somehow this chapter overrides Madara's background story? That the two warring mercenary clans (which were completely seperate from each other before the founding of Konoha, as shinobi at those time were organized solely by clan) that constantly battled each other somehow had leaders who were friends? The people Madara hated because they were viewed by the world as the better of the two clans. The people he took his brother's eyes from in order to defeat, only to then be unable to defeat them. The person who he has stated he hated the most. Aside from bloodlines, this is not a parallel to Naruto and Sasuke's relationship (that was shown by Jiraiya and Orochimaru), as Sasuke doesn't even acknowledge Naruto.

I am curious as to how Sasuke is going to react when he finds out that Madara was lying to him, specifically about the 9T incident. I imagine at some point Naruto will bring up that he met his parents, which will make Sasuke realize Naruto actually can empathize with him for losing his family as he has met them and come to know their sacrifice. He will then learn that Madara instigated the 9T attack, which was the final straw that lead to the eradication of the Uchiha, so he will realize that it is actually Madara's fault that his clan was wiped out.

Quote:
I think his abuse of the fox is simply a way for us to asses Narutos power, which is largely pointless since we know Sasuke is going to pull some other power from his ass and it's going to keep following the same cycle as all average rivalries do in manga/anime.
I am starting to believe that this rivalry is going to take the route of the Goku/Vegeta rivalry (which is not the same cycle as all average rivalvies in manga/anime as you insinuate), where at the end Sasuke finally acknowledges Naruto due to his overwhelming power, and with the knowledge of the past mentioned above either turns to the side of good in the battle against Madara and/or Kabuto, or has his powers transferred to Naruto either by dying or via Itachi's gift somehow. Through this Naruto will have literally taken his hatred upon himself, and therefore Sasuke will have been saved and Naruto's nindo/ambitions are achieved.

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Old 05-11-2011, 08:17 PM   #50
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

This chapter also brings up another interesting point, in that what if Naruto's chakra does have an affect on 9T? Karin said that his chakra is incredibly warm and bright (special chakra anyone....), and incredibly large compared to virtually the rest of the shinobi world. So maybe 9T taking some of it leads to part of Naruto being implanted in him. When 9T had the larger chakra levels and Naruto borrowed some of it, he took on the 9T eyes. With the situation in reverse now (Naruto having the larger chakra levels and 9T borrowing/stealing it), I'd assume that it is going to work the other way around somehow.

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Old 05-11-2011, 08:25 PM   #51
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

^ hadn't thought of that. Makes sense. I very much doubt Kishi's gonna take that road tho (unfortunately).
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Old 05-11-2011, 08:31 PM   #52
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

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no offense but I mean....what did you think would happen? obviously Naruto would eventually tame the fox. I'm sure everyone guessed that long ago. And you're right, the Kyuubi was set apart from the other tailed beasts. But you have to understand, the only reason the fox was ever so haxed was to build up other characters for contending with it (Minato, Kushina, Madara, and more than anyone...Naruto).

Some characters are only exist to give development or to hype another character. The Kyuubi falls into this category. I mean it does also exist for the same plot reason as the rest of the tailed beasts but the reason it's so far ahead of the other bijuus is so it can be used to hype other characters, mostly Naruto.
Exactly what has happened. There has never really once be a time that I didn't already know what was going to happen in a broad sense in Naruto because Kishi consistently follows typical plot devices. I knew he would tame the fox to the point of accessing it's power without much effort from the first time it was said Naruto had the fox inside him. This medium does it all the time. I mean honestly, did anyone for a second think Goku wasn't going to become a SSJ when the term was first brought into the story? Naruto and the fox are the same thing, it just took longer to come to pass. I was hoping Kishi would prove me wrong with that extremely obvious plot line, as well as the one with Sasuke. But alas he didn't. Expecting the worst is what I do, it doesn't mean I have to be happy when it comes to pass.

None of that changes anything. It's meta reasons for existing doesn't change the fact that the fox has been humanized as the series progressed and I don't care for it. It was nice in the beginning having something that was unrelateable to. It means existence can operate on a higher field than our own. Humanizing that force just erases this dynamic. The ten tails is the only thing left keeping this dynamic alive. However, unlike the fox, I don't care about the ten tails because it was a last minute addition to the journey.
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Old 05-11-2011, 08:51 PM   #53
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

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Originally Posted by Vornmusion View Post
Exactly what has happened. There has never really once be a time that I didn't already know what was going to happen in a broad sense in Naruto because Kishi consistently follows typical plot devices. I knew he would tame the fox to the point of accessing it's power without much effort from the first time it was said Naruto had the fox inside him. This medium does it all the time. I mean honestly, did anyone for a second think Goku wasn't going to become a SSJ when the term was first brought into the story? Naruto and the fox are the same thing, it just took longer to come to pass. I was hoping Kishi would prove me wrong with that extremely obvious plot line, as well as the one with Sasuke. But alas he didn't. Expecting the worst is what I do, it doesn't mean I have to be happy when it comes to pass.

I see your point here. I mean it is kinda typical....but so are most readers. I'm one of those typical readers I guess bc I couldn't wait to see Goku go Super Saiyan or to see Naruto own the fox's power. I mean not seeing the antagonist and protagonist eventually reach maximum potential just wouldn't allow the story to climax. It would leave a lot of readers wanting more. I do respect your desire to see something less typical tho. That's understandable. But I have to disagree with what you said about Naruto getting the fox's power without much effort.


None of that changes anything. It's meta reasons for existing doesn't change the fact that the fox has been humanized as the series progressed and I don't care for it. It was nice in the beginning having something that was unrelateable to. It means existence can operate on a higher field than our own. Humanizing that force just erases this dynamic. The ten tails is the only thing left keeping this dynamic alive. However, unlike the fox, I don't care about the ten tails because it was a last minute addition to the journey.
See I have to disagree again. There's really nothing more than pure opinion to a matter like this, but I think (just as some have already stated) that the dynamic your referring to has simply been transferred and now just has to be viewed in a different light.....where as you feel it has been completely erased. But again, you have to think about the toll it would take on the climax of the story if Kishi had done things more in the direction you were hoping for. I mean how could it ever meet the climax that the story's built up with that direction?
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Old 05-11-2011, 09:20 PM   #54
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

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Plato's The Republic and Kishimoto's The Shinobi would be considered as triumphant equals in all philosophical battles into perpetuity....
Not that you care, but you have officially won me over with this comment! haha!!

Anyways, I don't understand why everyone is upset over Naruto handling the fox like he did. It basically is just an over grown animal right now. Naruto has seperated it's chakra from its will remember? Not to mention he's faced his darkness and overcome it. So, Naruto man handling the Fox should be no surprise. To me, I do think Naruto gets some bad ass points for doing that just because it's kind of out of character for him to do that. I enjoyed the chapter. It's making things that have happened relavent now. Ahhhhh! Closure!
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Old 05-11-2011, 10:49 PM   #55
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

I love this chapter naruto has finally grown into a serious ninja and taken things serious he finally the character I always wanted him to be. I glad he no longer a ingnorant fool or a stupid kid that can't stay still for more than 1 second.

he finally grew balls.

as for naruto handleing nine tails it was ok for naruto to do that it's not like he broke the kyuubi nose or killed the kyuubi. he only smacked him in the face just like dog when it bites you or pees in the carpet. kishi did that to show off naruto power now. which clearly shows naruto becoming far more powerful.

I do still hope too see naruto and kyuubi teaming up together and making naruto much stronger and have a relationship like bee and the bull octobus jenjuriki.
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Old 05-12-2011, 04:48 AM   #56
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

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I don't get the complaining. In my opinion, the flashback added more depth to the story. Iruka described the symbol of harmony, which he said signified after a spar that the two fighters remained comrades. After Naruto and Sasuke's fight ended, an image of them making this symbol was shown. Even though Sasuke left, they remained comrades.

And I don't get why some people are upset over more emphasis on Sasuke's hatred when this was better than pretty much most of what's been done so far. When Sasuke joined Team 7, his family had been dead for several years. When he fought Naruto in this flashback, it had been a much shorter period of time. There was no point in this chapter where you couldn't see the hatred in Sasuke's eyes. I think it goes to show that after spending even a short time with Team 7, and Naruto in particular, Sasuke really did change.

I felt the comparison Naruto made couldn't have put it better. "Those eyes... The same eyes that everyone looks at me with, but more intense... And he's not looking at me." People look at Naruto with eyes of hatred and disdain, like they wish he didn't exist. Sasuke looks at Itachi like he wants to kill him. He was looking at someone else and all he could see was Itachi. All he could ever think about was how much he wanted to murder his own brother.

Aside from Naruto and Sasuke, the chapter showed more of the rookies from the Academy. I particularly noticed Choji's comment that he wouldn't fight his friend. Years and years later, forced to fight his own sensei... He could hardly spar with his own friends. He had to grow up.Well, actually, it was more of a top view, so it could've been present day. If it means something like that, I'd think it instead was a flashback signifying how they used to be comrades and now their friendship was broken. Could also have been Sasuke recalling their time as comrades and then deciding not to kill Naruto.

My view is that Sasuke didn't kill Naruto because he couldn't kill his friend and came up with the excuse at a later time. He'd already admitted several times by then that he'd come close to Naruto and Team 7, and had already risked their lives for them. Sasuke hated Itachi, and he wanted revenge. However, he only left the village for the power to kill Itachi. If he could've reached the same level of power at the Leaf, he would've, and in fact he would never have broken his ties to Naruto or anyone else in the village. However, he was convinced going to Orochimaru was the only way to get strong enough to kill Itachi. His friendship with Naruto did mean something to him, just not as much as killing Itachi.

However, I honestly believe that he always intended to return to the Leaf Village. Sasuke's not an idiot. If he thought about it for more than five seconds he'd realize that even if he killed Itachi he'd have nowhere to go and no one to be with. I think that he always intended to return after he killed Itachi, because even he should've known that Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi would accept him back as a Leaf shinobi even after he'd left the village. He could've gone back at any time, and he always had the chance. I feel that Naruto's seemingly failed attempts at getting Sasuke back were actually necessary for Sasuke to keep the feeling that he'd have somewhere to go once his mission of revenge was over.

Sadly, Sasuke knows the truth and he wants to kill everyone in Konoha, but I still feel it's Madara's doing. Personally, whenever he talks about wanting to crush the Leaf, it almost sounds like he's mouthing out Madara's will. If you'll recall, his clan went against him after he opposed Hashirama's leadership and he's hated the Leaf ever since, in fact he tried a direct attack on it once and was actually plotting revenge after that had failed. I truly think that he's using his Sharingan to manipulate Sasuke's confusion and hatred so he can take his own personal revenge on the Leaf through Sasuke.

Even his fight with Danzo was almost directly beneficial to Madara, as Madara had wanted Shisui's eye and would've had it if Danzo didn't crush it. He also had one less nuiscance to worry about thanks to that.

I TOTALLY agree with you, all this is Madara's doing!!!
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Old 05-12-2011, 06:36 AM   #57
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

lol who cares if Naruto finally stood up to the 9 tails? Its such a small part of whats going on its amazing some of you think its as big a deal. Its not anyone elses fault some of you have seen way too many animes or shows that parallel this, but either way Naruto had to grow up some time and he's showing that now. We've steadily been watching him train with Bee and little by little displays of what he can do now, and this is another step to Naruto becoming a bad ass. To think he'd always be subservient or scared of his 9 tails is what would have been silly.
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Old 05-12-2011, 07:15 AM   #58
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

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Originally Posted by EvL j3st3r View Post
Man......this chapter kinda left me disappointed. It almost looked like Kishi was driving towards Naruto and the fox making an alliance then he just took it away. You all may disagree but I would like to see them be more cooperative. Flash back was a little lengthy with unimportant factors but other than that it was a pretty good chapter.
Yeah, but I can't see winning over the fox happening in 5 minutes. That should be a major gain and should take a fair bit more effort.
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Old 05-12-2011, 07:34 AM   #59
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

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no offense but I mean....what did you think would happen? obviously Naruto would eventually tame the fox. I'm sure everyone guessed that long ago. And you're right, the Kyuubi was set apart from the other tailed beasts. But you have to understand, the only reason the fox was ever so haxed was to build up other characters for contending with it (Minato, Kushina, Madara, and more than anyone...Naruto).

Some characters only exist to give development or to hype another character. The Kyuubi falls into this category. I mean it does also exist for the same plot reason as the rest of the tailed beasts but the reason it's so far ahead of the other bijuus is so it can be used to hype other characters, mostly Naruto.
Oh, I'm certain the 9T is far beyond the other biju, 8T being a possible exception. On their own, the beasts were considered instinctual and lacking personality--mere chakra forces if you will, but unlike the kyuubi who has been described as a force of menace--indicating a core of reasoning intent. On that side I can see why the fox is now capable of being humanized, but Vornnegut is right in calling the direction cliche.

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Another lost opportunity. Can you imagine if Danzo became the Nine Tails jinchuriki? Their discussions of hate, no all emotions, duty, war and all great matters of the human soul would last for all times.

Plato's The Republic and Kishimoto's The Shinobi would be considered as triumphant equals in all philosophical battles into perpetuity....
Thought it the moment I saw it.

It isn't philosophy; it's an absolute TRUTH.

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lol who cares if Naruto finally stood up to the 9 tails? Its such a small part of whats going on its amazing some of you think its as big a deal. Its not anyone elses fault some of you have seen way too many animes or shows that parallel this, but either way Naruto had to grow up some time and he's showing that now. We've steadily been watching him train with Bee and little by little displays of what he can do now, and this is another step to Naruto becoming a bad ass. To think he'd always be subservient or scared of his 9 tails is what would have been silly.
It's prevalent in ALL media, not just shows. And it's not our fault; it is Kishi's--he has stated in several places he watches tons of shows and movies to get a feel for timing in story structure. Instead of using that knowledge to create something unique, he is just aping the blueprints.

Last edited by Kreegah!!!; 05-12-2011 at 07:37 AM. Reason: Oops, forgot to input reply to Wooster.
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Old 05-12-2011, 07:37 AM   #60
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Default Re: Naruto Chapter 538

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Oh, I'm certain the 9T is far beyond the other biju, 8T being a possible exception. On their own, the beasts were considered instinctual and lacking personality--mere chakra forces if you will, but unlike the kyuubi who has been described as a force of menace--indicating a core of reasoning intent. On that side I can see why the fox is now capable of being humanized, but Vornnegut is right in calling the direction cliche.





It's prevalent in ALL media, not just shows. And it's not our fault; it is Kishi's--he has stated in several places he watches tons of shows and movies to get a feel for timing in story structure. Instead of using that knowledge to create something unique, he is just aping the blueprints.
So you agree. Kishi should read more Greek literature.
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