Spoiler Hello Everyone. This is my first Post. A message for you.

[Ackwell]

I have come to give my opinions on matters involving the Naruto Manga. I hope I've come to the right place. There are people here who might know me from other forums, but if not, I am Ackwell, and I am a warrior of faith to the final villian of this manga.

Orochimaru sama.

Although I'm a firm believer in his return, I am also a realist, who knows things when he sees them. I can see how the story has panned out. I've met Kish. But that's for another day.

I wanted to say hello to everyone and introduce myself and say that I'm looking forward to being a part of this community. I hope you find my threads enjoyable.

Ku Ku Ku.

[Jakropha]

Hello

And yes, this is the right place for Naruto Manga.
#1
Tobi = Zetsoom
#2
Its great to see someone who's ready to defend his theory without buckling under like a cat after a bath
#3
HAVE FUN and ignore me

[kanisawa]

1) Yesh, this is right place.
2)Yay, now go ahead and tell me aaaaaaaaall about Kish JK.
3)Don't know 'bout the others but I'll enjoy it ^.^.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Ackwell

I have come to give my opinions on matters involving the Naruto Manga. I hope I've come to the right place. There are people here who might know me from other forums, but if not, I am Ackwell, and I am a warrior of faith to the final villian of this manga.

Orochimaru sama.

Although I'm a firm believer in his return, I am also a realist, who knows things when he sees them. I can see how the story has panned out. I've met Kish. But that's for another day.

I wanted to say hello to everyone and introduce myself and say that I'm looking forward to being a part of this community. I hope you find my threads enjoyable.

Ku Ku Ku.

Did you now?

[Jakropha]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Did you now?

[deidara330]

Orochimaru is a pathetic sociopath who wanted to have everything in the universe as though he doesn't understand that perfection can be nothing more than a concept. His first death killed him the way he ought to have died, his second death killed him in a similar manner by having him lose to the guy who'd already cut off his hand before. I'd be very disappointed if that gets followed up by "Orochimaru makes random return and becomes final villain! Naruto, using all his training, finally defeats and kills the threat to the world who never had anything to do with him!"

If we are to assume he is the final villain, his final death can't be anything special, because Kabuto, Madara, Itachi, Sasuke, and Naruto can't kill him. Naruto can't kill him because out of the remaining antagonists Naruto has the least relationship to Orochimaru and I think it'd be just kinda dumb considering that he's actually got something to talk about fighting Kabuto or Madara. There's absolutely no buildup behind it. Naruto's already fought Oro twice, anyways, and met him much more often, so really I don't think it fits for him to kill Oro. Kabuto and Madara can't kill him for the last time, because then he's not the final villain. Sasuke and Itachi are both responsible for his previous deaths.

Also, if you expect Orochimaru to come back through Kabuto, then you don't understand Kabuto. Kabuto has spent every single second of his life for the past few months overcoming and surpassing Orochimaru while mastering his powers. Kabuto's desires have not changed since he was with Orochimaru. Kabuto's personality has not changed beyond severing any clinging to Orochimaru. Kabuto has Orochimaru's power, but that doesn't mean he's still reliant on Orochimaru, considering he's already surpassed Orochimaru in several ways. There is no Kabutomaru. There is Kabuto and Kabuto with a chakra boost. That's about it. The only reason Kabuto hasn't been masterminding everything in the series since his introduction is his servitude to Orochimaru, who was actually never more intelligent or sly than Kabuto.

Kabuto is the final villain Orochimaru wished he could be. To top it off, Naruto originally thought of Kabuto as a friend, realized he's a spy, beat the crap out of him, and has been unhappy to see him ever since. Those two can have a nice, long, main-protagonist to final-antagonist chat. Naruto and Orochimaru? The extent of it is basically "Yo dude, you're that ******* who tried to kill my friends and destroy my village. I'm gonna kill you now." Kabuto's level of complexity far surpasses Orochimaru's simple "I wanna have every jutsu in teh worldz". Therefore, his final conversation, final fight, and final death will all have more depth to them and emotion behind them than anything Orochimaru could have.

My belief that Orochimaru won't come back is split in two parts: The first being that I don't think the story's current direction is pointing that way or giving any sort of hint towards it, and the second is that I think it would be horrible to read.

[Ur Mom]

0_0 Now now, no need to bring your debate no jutsu into an introduction thread Deidara

[Yori]

If Oro had the same amount of Prep time Kabuto did, Oro would have summoned that many edo's

[Phazonous]

Originally Posted by deidara330

Orochimaru is a pathetic sociopath who wanted to have everything in the universe as though he doesn't understand that perfection can be nothing more than a concept. His first death killed him the way he ought to have died, his second death killed him in a similar manner by having him lose to the guy who'd already cut off his hand before. I'd be very disappointed if that gets followed up by "Orochimaru makes random return and becomes final villain! Naruto, using all his training, finally defeats and kills the threat to the world who never had anything to do with him!"

If we are to assume he is the final villain, his final death can't be anything special, because Kabuto, Madara, Itachi, Sasuke, and Naruto can't kill him. Naruto can't kill him because out of the remaining antagonists Naruto has the least relationship to Orochimaru and I think it'd be just kinda dumb considering that he's actually got something to talk about fighting Kabuto or Madara. There's absolutely no buildup behind it. Naruto's already fought Oro twice, anyways, and met him much more often, so really I don't think it fits for him to kill Oro. Kabuto and Madara can't kill him for the last time, because then he's not the final villain. Sasuke and Itachi are both responsible for his previous deaths.

Also, if you expect Orochimaru to come back through Kabuto, then you don't understand Kabuto. Kabuto has spent every single second of his life for the past few months overcoming and surpassing Orochimaru while mastering his powers. Kabuto's desires have not changed since he was with Orochimaru. Kabuto's personality has not changed beyond severing any clinging to Orochimaru. Kabuto has Orochimaru's power, but that doesn't mean he's still reliant on Orochimaru, considering he's already surpassed Orochimaru in several ways. There is no Kabutomaru. There is Kabuto and Kabuto with a chakra boost. That's about it. The only reason Kabuto hasn't been masterminding everything in the series since his introduction is his servitude to Orochimaru, who was actually never more intelligent or sly than Kabuto.

Kabuto is the final villain Orochimaru wished he could be. To top it off, Naruto originally thought of Kabuto as a friend, realized he's a spy, beat the crap out of him, and has been unhappy to see him ever since. Those two can have a nice, long, main-protagonist to final-antagonist chat. Naruto and Orochimaru? The extent of it is basically "Yo dude, you're that ******* who tried to kill my friends and destroy my village. I'm gonna kill you now." Kabuto's level of complexity far surpasses Orochimaru's simple "I wanna have every jutsu in teh worldz". Therefore, his final conversation, final fight, and final death will all have more depth to them and emotion behind them than anything Orochimaru could have.

My belief that Orochimaru won't come back is split in two parts: The first being that I don't think the story's current direction is pointing that way or giving any sort of hint towards it, and the second is that I think it would be horrible to read.

Also because he got sealed into the world of drunken dreams by Itachi via Susanoo.

[Ackwell]

It seems you have some interesting theories.
Let me say a few things about Orochimaru sama.

For the sake of Plot no Jutsu and Main character hype, Orochimaru was used in a way to advance Sasuke and Itachi ahead in strength. He was used to show the readers exactly how far Sasuke had come, and how strong his opponent (Itachi) truly was. I find it interesting that I hear people making fun of Orochimaru for losing so "Pathetically" to both Sasuke and Itachi, yet who else has gone against these two and won? Naruto tried with Sasuke too, and he lost. Bee went against Sasuke and lost, but managed to escape. Kakashi was also beaten in a second by Itachi, as well as Deidara and whomever else dared to step in Itachis way.

So what?

Those two are very strong, and haxxed beyond potential.

HOWEVER.
The thing you all fail to realize is the character of Orochimaru himself. The Third said so himself, that the White Snake is a symbol of REBIRTH and Good Fortune. That should say enough about his character to you. He said so from his own mouth. "I am Undying" His will is so strong he just keeps returning to life in whatever way possible. His cells are so strong they are demanding control of Kabuto at this very moment. He continuously turns further into the White Snake, which is inevitably, Orochimaru.

Kish has given us evidence right in front of our eyes. He showed the snakes escaping the Uchiha battle. He told us that Kabuto now has his DNA and that DNA is trying to "Take control" of Kabuto.

So Kabuto fans say "Uhh, Kabuto is smart and can use his powers etc" yet, should we forget that his future battles are going to be against either: Naruto, Sasuke, Madara, Kakashi. And what does that say? Two of the main characters. His enemies. Meaning, they are going to take eachother to their LIMITS. Meaning, Kabuto will be driven out of chakra in the same manor Uchiha Sasuke was in his battle with Itachi. Then, Kabuto won't be able to hold control any longer.

This, will be the epic moment of return for Orochimaru, and at this exact moment I bet Uchiha Sasuke is out of chakra and unable to use his Sharingan, and this means the Transfer process would work this time. No Sharingan, no blocking the Soul Transfer.

Orochimaru now has the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, and Uchiha Sasuke, his original container.

Plan complete.

When you think about it, Sasuke never even beat Orochimaru. Orochimaru beat Sasuke in their battle. He still managed to lodge his soul into Sasukes body, waiting for the moment Sasuke would be out of chakra, which was definitely against Itachi.

Itachi was the one who saved Sasukes body from Orochimaru. Sasuke didn't do nothing.

This story is all about getting beaten up, never giving up, never quitting, and going for your goals no matter what. It shows heart when a character loses and comes back smarter and stronger than ever. Madara has lost in his life, a few times, yet is still at it. Strong. Pain was too strong, invincible really. Yet his loss made him into the character he became. When you think about it, Shinobi die. To say it's embarassing that Orochimaru lost to Uchihas when one day he's just going to return again is laughable.

Kabuto is using his Jutsu and power like a leach. And one thing I know about Kabuto, is he's loyal to Orochimaru. He always has been. So, whos to stop him from having Edo Itachi release Orochimaru from the sword of Totsuka?

[EvL j3st3r]

don't worry about it. It's just ppl trolling. Orochimaru is obviously formidable. He's obviously greater than Kakashi and although the manga never says directly that he is inferior to Jaraiya, it does kinda say it indirectly. So I'm thinking his level is somewhere between Kakashi and Jaraiya. Probably very very close to Jaraiya's end of the scale since their rivalry is like an old mirror of Sasuke and Naruto's rivalry.

I don't think Oro is coming back tho. His purpose to the plot is served.

[deidara330]

Originally Posted by Ackwell

Kabuto is using his Jutsu and power like a leach. And one thing I know about Kabuto, is he's loyal to Orochimaru. He always has been. So, whos to stop him from having Edo Itachi release Orochimaru from the sword of Totsuka?

If that's the only thing you know about Kabuto then you don't know him at all. After Orochimaru got beat, Kabuto went out of his way to meet Naruto and explicitly state the backstory of his life growing up, his servitude to Orochimaru, and how Naruto inspired Kabuto to find his own identity, surpassing and overcoming Orochimaru. He stated, in more than enough good detail, that he stubbornly clung to Orochimaru's power, and that because he saw how Naruto had moved past those who feared him as Nine-Tails, he would move past Orochimaru to become his own person. He was simply going to do as Naruto had done. After this meeting, Kabuto took an extended absence from the series. Why on Earth would the author have Kabuto disappear for 100+ chapters and have him leave off on "I'm gonna surpass Orochimaru" only to have Kabuto's goals become the restoring of Orochimaru to power?

[mrsticky005]

Orochimaru is out.
Kabuto is in.

Personally I thought Kabuto was always the better villain.

[Rasengan SageX5]

Welcome to the forums, Ackwell. I think that Orochimaru has run his course and it is now Kabuto's turn. While he seemed like an interesting villain when we first saw him, we come to realize that he is just another psycho with lust for power and the tendency to make himself look a like a pedophile. I always thought Kabuto was a better villain anyway. The minute I first saw him I knew something was up with him. I could see the wheels turning in his brain, always thinking, waiting for his part of the plan to come and when it did, executing it perfectly.

[JazzJunkie4]

yes as several people have said, orochimaru will not be making another appearance as a villian, it's kabuto's time to shine.

[Ackwell]

Kabuto will shine. Don't get me wrong. I'm happy to see his progress with Orochimarus Jutsu, and power, combined with his supreme knowledge and brain, he is a formidable opponent and definitely a worthy student of Orochimaru. His regeneration will be incredible. I'm talkin cut off an arm and it grows back immediately.

The thing I'm talking about is Kabutos Trump Card.
His "Final" power. The last thing he'll do before he fails, which he inevitably will. He will already have used the 6th Coffin, and I think he mentioned a "That Jutsu". Maybe not.

We have to take into consideration that he will eventually lose to either Naruto or Sasuke. Just use your brains for a minute. What will happen when he's on the brink of death, and he's having a flashback of Orochimaru? Orochimaru returns! What a dramatic way for him to come back. He gains full control of Kabuto, returns through a Rebirth of some sort, and takes over the weakened Sasuke to have the Final Villan. Sasorochimaru! Or OroSasuke as many know him as.

It was his goal for so long, Kish spent so much time with it. Orochimarus obsession. You'll see. Mark my words. He will be back. And better than ever.

Ku Ku Ku

[Revived Kakuzu]

Ackwell, I don't see any point in Orochi coming back... As many have said, he has served his purpose, and he has already come back after 'dying' once, and I don't think Kishi's going to spam that. As for the 'Oh, Kabs is gonna make Itachi release Orochi from the sword' couldn't he have done that already?
Besides, I think Kabs might actually be the final villain... But if he isn't, and Madara is, they're not just going to shove Orochimaru there. EVERYONE would fight him, since Madara and the whole ninja world hate his guts, so he wouldn't really have a chance.

[Ackwell]

The point of him coming back is his will and the fact that he never gives up. That's his character. He fails but continues to fight and survive and continue on somehow. He's very simmiliar to Naruto in that way.

When we believe there are no other Villians left, he will return. He'll take control of Sasuke and the powers of the EMS. His body transfer Jutsu will happen. Orochimaru will get the Sharingan.

[Revived Kakuzu]

But if Kabuto is dead, how will he come back?

[The Forgotten One]

Originally Posted by Ackwell

Kish has given us evidence right in front of our eyes. He showed the snakes escaping the Uchiha battle. He told us that Kabuto now has his DNA and that DNA is trying to "Take control" of Kabuto.

(In bold) If memory serves, weren't those snakes on fire? However, I would like to see Oro come back at some point in moment like during Sasuke's battle with Itachi. Oro was the first true villian of the series and as has already been said, it does fit his character. But I don't think he should be the final villian and I'm all for him taking over Sasuke. But I have a better idea: what if through some crazy series of events, Oro comes back and takes over Tobi/Madara? That would be epic!

And welcome to the forums, make sure you check out the Battle Narrative game here on the forums. Specifically the Jungle village.