Was Pakistan hiding Osama?

[Wooster]

Osama was found in a gigantic compound, relatively close to the Pakistani capital. He as not found in a cave in the unruly Waziristan.

It also seems there was limited governmental support for the US raid.

So was Pakistan government, or at least elements, of it aiding Osama? If so should we drop their arses and end all aid? What say you?

[Danielle]

It stands to reason they were, in the beginning Obama said he wanted to get Pakistan's cooperation in finding Osama bin Laden. I am sure for a while he may have shifted between borders, but I think the capital is closer to India. I don't know why they'd protect him though.

[Rasengan-]

So far we need more information about the Pakistani involvment in his capture from the US government. We do not know if there were limited government support for out raid. Perhaps they assisted in finding his whereabouts.

Furthermore, Pakistan maybe in a difficult position to publicly show their assistence and support to the US as direct retaliation and threats will put pressure on the Pakistan people. Terrorist attacks are far much easier to be launched against Pakinstan than oppose to the US whereby limited and strict political openness restrict terrorist to move freely and conduct their activities/missions.

Understanding Pakistani position is important. Secondly, intelligent agency is not as up-to-date as the US so to speak. Or it could be possible that the Pakistani government delay action over time in order to stike at the best possible time. As I said before more time and information is needed to make a more concrete judegement on the Pakistani government.

But it maybe possible, despite osama hiding his a mansion he lived in a 'city' where most ex-retired Pakistani army generals lived.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Danielle

It stands to reason they were, in the beginning Obama said he wanted to get Pakistan's cooperation in finding Osama bin Laden. I am sure for a while he may have shifted between borders, but I think the capital is closer to India. I don't know why they'd protect him though.

Money, extremist in the Islami extremists government.

So should we change out attitude towards them?

Originally Posted by Rasengan-

So far we need more information about the Pakistani involvment in his capture from the US government. We do not know if there were limited government support for out raid. Perhaps they assisted in finding his whereabouts.

We really do. There wasn't much except the fact for the "Oh crap, they found him" token support.
Osama has been living their a year. no doubt many knew he was their, but they did not inform us.
[quote]
Furthermore, Pakistan maybe in a difficult position to publicly show their assistence and support to the US as direct retaliation and threats will put pressure on the Pakistan people. Terrorist attacks are far much easier to be launched against Pakinstan than oppose to the US whereby limited and strict political openness restrict terrorist to move freely and conduct their activities/missions.
[quote] Pubically doesn't matter. They could have told us privately. If they are so ham strung that they cannot act. The US should not be providing military aid to them. This combined with not respect dipolmatic immunity for Raymond Davis, does not leave the US with any need to show good will.

Understanding Pakistani position is important. Secondly, intelligent agency is not as up-to-date as the US so to speak. Or it could be possible that the Pakistani government delay action over time in order to stike at the best possible time. As I said before more time and information is needed to make a more concrete judegement on the Pakistani government.

But it maybe possible, despite osama hiding his a mansion he lived in a 'city' where most ex-retired Pakistani army generals lived.

Actually, ISI is very good. It also has strong ties to Islamic Extremists.

Time to show Pakistan some tough love.

[Yori]

Its suspicious. If they didn't protect him then they need to go to work on upgrading their intelligence. Military sweeps of that area would of lured him out a while ago.

[PlatonicZombie]

I think it goes beyond Pakistan knowing. Do you really think we didn't know? This whole thing stinks. Apparently, if you want to hide from the government you can hide in a large mansion in plain sight, and they will spend years looking in your backyard. Now that he's dead our economy apparently has rebounded a little. The oil prices have stabilized. How magical. One death apparently changes a lot of things. I'm really tired of our news.

What angers me even more are the americans celebrating in the streets. This doesn't make us any better than them. You don't celebrate death, no matter how horrible the person was.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Yori

Its suspicious. If they didn't protect him then they need to go to work on upgrading their intelligence. Military sweeps of that area would of lured him out a while ago.

I can't see how they couldn't know. Seem like someone was giving him money to for that mansion.

Originally Posted by PlatonicZombie

I think it goes beyond Pakistan knowing. Do you really think we didn't know? This whole thing stinks. Apparently, if you want to hide from the government you can hide in a large mansion in plain sight, and they will spend years looking in your backyard. Now that he's dead our economy apparently has rebounded a little. The oil prices have stabilized. How magical. One death apparently changes a lot of things. I'm really tired of our news.

What angers me even more are the americans celebrating in the streets. This doesn't make us any better than them. You don't celebrate death, no matter how horrible the person was.

I don't see how we could have know. Maybe for a month or so, but that would be it.

Celebrating the death of one butcher? I think not. Celebrating deaths of innocents is not the same as celebrating the death of Osama. I have no reason to celebrate as he is just one of tens of thousands, but I have no qualms with those that choose to.

[PlatonicZombie]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Celebrating the death of one butcher? I think not. Celebrating deaths of innocents is not the same as celebrating the death of Osama. I have no reason to celebrate as he is just one of tens of thousands, but I have no qualms with those that choose to.

Yes, the reason for celebrating is different, but as much as it is different it is also the same. Death is death no matter how you spin it. We all die, and it hurts when we die. Death is something that people should not encourage. I'm not denying the fact that he was a horrible person, and that he did unspeakable things to the innocent. But to celebrate a death is just, petty really. I'm not out there actively trying to prevent people from celebrating, because I know people have the right to do so. I'm just trying to challenge a popular opinion.

[Bacon]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Osama was found in a gigantic compound, relatively close to the Pakistani capital. He as not found in a cave in the unruly Waziristan.

It also seems there was limited governmental support for the US raid.

So was Pakistan government, or at least elements, of it aiding Osama? If so should we drop their arses and end all aid? What say you?

Just my opinion, but I'd be my bottom dollar that there were elements of the Pakitsani government who were pretecting Osama. The only way he would have been able to survive so long, is if the government and its people turned a blind eye to him and his whereabouts.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by PlatonicZombie

Yes, the reason for celebrating is different, but as much as it is different it is also the same. Death is death no matter how you spin it. We all die, and it hurts when we die. Death is something that people should not encourage. I'm not denying the fact that he was a horrible person, and that he did unspeakable things to the innocent. But to celebrate a death is just, petty really. I'm not out there actively trying to prevent people from celebrating, because I know people have the right to do so. I'm just trying to challenge a popular opinion.

I think death happens whether you encourage it or not.

So it is down to petty now, not evil???

[PlatonicZombie]

Originally Posted by Wooster

I think death happens whether you encourage it or not.

So it is down to petty now, not evil???

Ok wrong choice of words I suppose. How about: aid, help, support, cheer, hope, etc...

You're wondering why I don't use the word evil when I have a Nietzsche quote in my sig?

[chidoriroar]

i dont know really, but who cares they can do whatever they want, they dont have to help. plus the U.S can stop aid if they want to, the U.S isnt responsible for anyone

[Danielle]

Considering the USA gave all these people weapons, who is the real evil here?

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by PlatonicZombie

Ok wrong choice of words I suppose. How about: aid, help, support, cheer, hope, etc...

You're wondering why I don't use the word evil when I have a Nietzsche quote in my sig?

You are wondering why I am asking question when you have a Nietzsche quote in your sig and sadi he was angered?

Originally Posted by chidoriroar

i dont know really, but who cares they can do whatever they want, they dont have to help. plus the U.S can stop aid if they want to, the U.S isnt responsible for anyone

They aren't? What about ourselves?

Originally Posted by Danielle

Considering the USA gave all these people weapons, who is the real evil here?

Well, the weapons helped them obtain freedom from the USSR boot. That is evil?

Not like Osama attacked us with AK-47, it was planes. It is his money that matter, and that he got from the Saudis. So everyone that has driven a car, rode a bus, walked on a street of asphalt, worn a piece a jewelery made of plastic, used Vaseline or any type of make up is evil.

[Judious]

Saddam Hussein ☑, Bin Laden ☑, Justin Bieber ☐

[Danielle]

I suppose so, but I meant the middle east in general.

[Wooster]

Well we could have supported the Shah, but we decide to let the kooks take over.

[Judious]

[Wooster]

From the Washington Post: Asif Ali Zardari President of Pakistan and widower of Benazir Bhutto say, "Although the events of Sunday were not a joint operation" or essentially we did nothing.

Not to say he knew of Bin Ladin, the civilian side of the Pakistan government probably did not. Then again he is extremely weak. A lot of clap trap in here about the Pakistan people not supporting al Qaeda, but given the fact that opposing blasphemy laws gets you killed there, I wouldn't give it much weight.

[Ur Mom]

Yes, end of discussion, it's the effing corrupt government