Obama's Birth Certificate

[Wooster]

While I think must of believed Obama was born in Hawaii, there was always a undercurrent of doubt for some reason.

Strangely enough Obama released his birth certificate today:
http://whitehouse.gov/sites/default/...-long-form.pdf

So my question is why? Was it because of Trump? Did polls show that people were doubting Obama over this? Before it seemed like he got the sweet end of this as all the people that doubted his birth looked like loons.

Anyway, why do you think this was released today?

[Yori]

Pressured.

[Danielle]

An attempt to save face for the up coming election? Same with saying his admin wouldn't support laws that ban gay marriage?

Actually, I have a question, aren't birth certificates public domain anyway?

[Sheelah]

Obama wants to get re-elected, if their is any doubt as to whether the person was even born in this country, people would most likely not re-relect him for a second term. Sometimes doubt can be enough to sway people to the other side, in this case the Republican side. Realing the certificate, if not altered, may remove some doubts. His re-election committee may have suggested it would improve his chances if he came clean. It was all to improve his chance to get re-elected.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Danielle

An attempt to save face for the up coming election? Same with saying his admin wouldn't support laws that ban gay marriage?

Actually, I have a question, aren't birth certificates public domain anyway?

Why no release closer to the election to put egg on the face of his accusers?
Well that is true that is why he did that. Also notice it was after the Republicans took over the House, so he knew the law wouldn't change, but he could claim to be agianst it.

The standard for is certificate of live birth. Obama has released this before. It contains less information.

I guess the most interesting thing is that his father is listed as African. I believe that means Obama Sr. would be Commonwealth citizen and thus a British citizen. I think that means Obama Jr. would possibly be a British citizen too.
/shrugs
I don't know. Dual citizenship is confusing. I know it is frowned upon in the US, but nothing is done about unless you try to get two passports.

@Sheelers So you think this was starting to swing people?

[Danielle]

Perhaps so that it doesn't seem obvious as a campaign move? The article featured on Yahoo quotes Dan Pfeiffer as saying that it's to disband the false issue of Obama's birth so that the country can focus on the real issues without distraction. If that were an issue, why not have released it sooner? However, it's ridiculous how blown out of proportion his birth is, there hasn't been any other president where this has been as big an issue.

His mother is an American citizen why should it matter that his father his African?

Also, I believe if you leave America to become a citizen of another country, you can't apply for dual citizenship...I don't remember the details.

[Sheelah]

The version you are showing Woo, is the short format..check here...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/...th-certificate

The long form of his birth certificvate is there and there is more info on it...

Within minutes of it being released, Trump has claimed credit for the birth certicate being released and wants to see it in person...

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Danielle

Perhaps so that it doesn't seem obvious as a campaign move? The article featured on Yahoo quotes Dan Pfeiffer as saying that it's to disband the false issue of Obama's birth so that the country can focus on the real issues without distraction. If that were an issue, why not have released it sooner? However, it's ridiculous how blown out of proportion his birth is, there hasn't been any other president where this has been as big an issue.

His mother is an American citizen why should it matter that his father his African?

Also, I believe if you leave America to become a citizen of another country, you can't apply for dual citizenship...I don't remember the details.

Well she was only 18 and I guess that isn't old enough to give citizenship. I don't know. Obviously if you are born in the US you are a citizen.

But you can be born of dual citizenship. Usually most people do not lost their old citizenship of their previous country when they come to American.
Other countries my require you to denounce your US citizenship to become a citizen there.

Originally Posted by Sheelah

The version you are showing Woo, is the short format..check here...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/...th-certificate

The long form of his birth certificvate is there and there is more info on it...

Within minutes of it being released, Trump has claimed credit for the birth certicate being released and wants to see it in person...

No, I showed the correct one. Both say certificate of live birth, but the new one is green and contains the father's info.

Yeah, Trump can go eat his hair for all I care.

[Sheelah]

According to the White House site, the short version was released earlier and the new one that was just released is the correct, long form....They're both birth certificates to be sure but one has much more detail than the other...

[Danielle]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Well she was only 18 and I guess that isn't old enough to give citizenship. I don't know. Obviously if you are born in the US you are a citizen.

But you can be born of dual citizenship. Usually most people do not lost their old citizenship of their previous country when they come to American.
Other countries my require you to denounce your US citizenship to become a citizen there.


No, I showed the correct one. Both say certificate of live birth, but the new one is green and contains the father's info.

Yeah, Trump can go eat his hair for all I care.

Interesting, though she was a youngin I didn't know age played any role in citizenship.

[Sheelah]

This one is much better, more info, although, looking at it, why is their white around the letters of Obama's name? It almost reminds me of White-out. However if it is a forgery, the name should have been done better. Is this a forged birth certificate? Look, closely at it..

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/defa...-long-form.pdf

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Danielle

Interesting, though she was a youngin I didn't know age played any role in citizenship.

Yes.
I guess it does.

Originally Posted by Sheelah

This one is much better, more info, although, looking at it, why is their white around the letters of Obama's name? It almost reminds me of White-out. However if it is a forgery, the name should have been done better. Is this a forged birth certificate? Look, closely at it..

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/defa...-long-form.pdf

Well it is a photocopy. That is probably why.
It is certified by the state registrar, so they would have to be lying then.

[junchurikioftheleaf]

tl;dr

[Bacon]

Well she was only 18 and I guess that isn't old enough to give citizenship. I don't know. Obviously if you are born in the US you are a citizen.

But you can be born of dual citizenship. Usually most people do not lost their old citizenship of their previous country when they come to American.
Other countries my require you to denounce your US citizenship to become a citizen there.

I dunno, British citizenship laws aren't as straightforward as US laws. Plus, I don't feel like sifting through possibly false information on the citizenship requirements before 1983.

[SRhyse]

I like that in situations like this, I can take solace in the fact that whether or not he was born in the US really doesn't affect anything I think about Obama .

I think the guilt of not reelecting him because he's black is enough to get the naysayers to vote his way, and I don't think there's currently a republican candidate that can match his charisma. The birth certificate is a nice card to play and I'd play it too if I was in a position to, but I don't think it's a trump card in any way at this point. Written records don't hold up to modern, digital forensic standards, so there won't be a definitive yes or no on where he was born unless we invent a time machine.

Then again, if we did that, we wouldn't give a damn about who's President.

[Bacon]

trump card in any way at this point.

Was that a pun towards Donald trump, who is taking credit for his "achievement"? xD

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Bacon

I dunno, British citizenship laws aren't as straightforward as US laws. Plus, I don't feel like sifting through possibly false information on the citizenship requirements before 1983.

They aren't.

Originally Posted by SRhyse

I like that in situations like this, I can take solace in the fact that whether or not he was born in the US really doesn't affect anything I think about Obama .

I think the guilt of not reelecting him because he's black is enough to get the naysayers to vote his way, and I don't think there's currently a republican candidate that can match his charisma. The birth certificate is a nice card to play and I'd play it to if I was in a position to, but I don't think it's a trump card in any way at this point.

Well, it was only possibly interesting in terms of a constitutional question. That "Natural Born Citizen" thing needs to be ironed out at some point.

Trump card, nice.

[SRhyse]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Well, it was only possibly interesting in terms of a constitutional question. That "Natural Born Citizen" thing needs to be ironed out at some point.

An interesting thing to note here is that it's actually not.

There's the idea that The Constitution is a Frankensteinian combination of the 10 commandments and a straightjacket, where we follow what's written there to an imaginary T and get smitten if we don't, but that idea's made up and hasn't been how it's ever worked ever, nor can it work that way. The Constitution has relatively little definitive in it despite how it reads, in that it says absolutely nothing divorced from actually trying to apply it, which even then is actually us trying to come to an agreement with eachother using that as a conversation point, like a book in a book club.

The Constitution wasn't written to accommodate the fact we can fly anywhere in the world in a matter of hours any time we want, and do all the time. Most of the US didn't even exist when it was written. Nor was the concept of a nation meant to scale to what's gone on with the internet today, many people feeling more kinship as a community to people that share ideals and likes than geography and occupation (like around here). That part about being native born as written was mainly against having someone from England try to weasel their way back in, to reinforce the point of a country being governed by someone that has a legitimate investment of time and livelihood in it, not someone in a high tower drinking crumpets who's only heard about it and seen in it picture books. Those kinds of people don't exist anymore though.

So, our having elected him at all already throws out it being something we feel the need to hold ourselves to in a draconian way, it can't be applied as it was quite too literally anymore because what it's applied to is no longer what it was written for, and since it already happened, it would just be amended if enough panties get bunched about it. The Constitution is continually made in retrospect to solve arguments, not followed as if people from hundreds of years ago magically wrote down words that are going to hold the best possible answers for us today on issues they couldn't even have fathomed.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by SRhyse

An interesting thing to note here is that it's actually not.

There's the idea that The Constitution is a Frankensteinian combination of the 10 commandments and a straightjacket, where we follow what's written there to an imaginary T and get smitten if we don't, but that idea's made up and hasn't been how it's ever worked ever, nor can it work that way. The Constitution has relatively little definitive in it despite how it reads, in that it says absolutely nothing divorced from actually trying to apply it, which even then is actually us trying to come to an agreement with eachother using that as a conversation point, like a book in a book club.

The Constitution wasn't written to accommodate the fact we can fly anywhere in the world in a matter of hours any time we want, and do all the time. Most of the US didn't even exist when it was written. Nor was the concept of a nation meant to scale to what's gone on with the internet today, many people feeling more kinship as a community to people that share ideals and likes than geography and occupation (like around here). That part about being native born as written was mainly against having someone from England try to weasel their way back in, to reinforce the point of a country being governed by someone that has a legitimate investment of time and livelihood in it, not someone in a high tower drinking crumpets who's only heard about it and seen in it picture books. Those kinds of people don't exist anymore though.

So, our having elected him at all already throws out it being something we feel the need to hold ourselves to in a draconian way, it can't be applied as it was quite too literally anymore because what it's applied to is no longer what it was written for, and since it already happened, it would just be amended if enough panties get bunched about it. The Constitution is continually made in retrospect to solve arguments, not followed as if people from hundreds of years ago magically wrote down words that are going to hold the best possible answers for us today on issues they couldn't even have fathomed.

Still, it is followed none-the-less. I believe it was Grover Cleavland that had rumors he was born across the borders in Canada. That phrase has never been very clear.

Seems to be the way it would be settle is is someone was born a citizen, but not on US soil. A court case would be brought and it would be settled one way or another. Given that person was already elected, I assume that the decision would be being born a citizen is good enough, but like I said it would be interesting.

[SRhyse]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Still, it is followed none-the-less.

This can be one of the most valuable shifts in perception you can make in life-

Rules and Laws aren't followed, they're MADE.