Abortion

[Bacon]

Originally Posted by Nick Tasogare

Anencephaly, for one.

And you obviously weren't reading what I said carefully enough, as I said 'One that would prevent you from leading your own life. Nothing like autism or retardation. You can live an actual life with those.' Blind people, deaf people, autistic people, retarded people all live good lives. If you're born with something that sentences you to a life of pain or the inability to do the simplest of things, what kind of life is that? You shouldn't force a person through that when they aren't going to be able to even live a life with it. And don't go on about how it's selfish on the parents' part, not everyone who gets an abortion is selfish or doing it for selfish reasons.

If you're gonna say some shpeel about God giving it to you for a reason, what purpose does someone who can't go 5 minutes without excruciating pain at a young age serve in God's master plan?

I'm not even going to argue anymore, because everyone has their own opinion, no matter how unfounded it is.

That's an unfortunate birth defect,but it usually ends up in a miscarriage. But for the small number of babies who actually make close to birth, well that would be highly unlikely; according to some article in google.

I know what you said,but I was ignorant towards anything that could prevent one from leading a normal life. That said,the condition you used is somewhat invalid since the baby does not live longer than a few days, if at all. Just the fact that many end up in miscarriage, means that there still, well at least common defect that could impair their life in the long run.(Other than death)

I wouldn't do the god thing since I am a terrible christian, but the unfounded thing is a little much, don't you think? You haven't given anything that could impair one's life, but whatever. No point in discussing this if I you're going to arguing. :3

[Nick Tasogare]

If you really think that there are no birth defects that would prevent a person from leading a life then you're ignorant. It's not my fault I'm not a medical professional and can't name them. What do you think prenatal screening is for?

I wasn't directing it at just you. My opinions would unfounded as well as I've never been in this situation. You've given no real reason why abortion is wrong either, just why you think it is, so whatever.

[Slack 40]

Who knows whether or not my opinion makes any sense
the way i see it everyone says how "church and state should be separated" So that child whose life ends because someone has an abortion is murder. The child dies thats a life. Now I've argued with some people about this topic and they say well maybe the childs life will be better in heaven. I believe in god, however the government can't make decisions based on god. So as far as they should be concerned that there is no afterlife. The child dies thats it a new born's life is over before they could experience the world. If the baby dies naturally then thats not a crime, but to end its life yourself i can't agree with

^ my own opinion

[Cloukora]

On certain terms, where the reason to have an abortion is proven right, such as it having a birth defect, or the woman not being able to carry the baby for health reasons (like if the baby won't survive or she won't)
but I'm sorry, I don't think being raped could be considered an excuse
wait, I'm not saying I don't feel sorry or anything for them, but for the fact, anyone can use that excuse
like if a teenage girl got pregnant cause she was dumb and had unprotected sex, she could just say she got raped, and it would be allowed, because that can't be proven

[mrsticky005]

I'm Pro-Choice in the sense that I'm not really sure how one would even enforce no abortions? I mean it seems overboard to arrest the would be mom for having an abortion. Though I guess you can arrest the abortionist.

Still I don't agree with the Pro-Choice movement. I think they are too eager for women to have abortions are aren't really for choice at all. They'll support women
who choose to have an abortion but how many times do they support a women
for choosing to have a baby? Hardly ever it seems. Which is quite sad because
it takes more courage to go through labor than it does to have an abortion.

Also the only real argument for abortion being not immoral is the one where giving birth being a danger to the mom. I don't think you can honestly blame a women
if she decides to have an abortion to save herself NOR can you blame a women
who sacrifices herself to give birth. It's really just a terrible situation that thankfully
does not happen as often as the Pro-Choice movement would like for us to believe.


The whole rape argument is just one that caters to emotion when you think about it.
It says that since a woman is raped she has the right to kill her unborn baby. But
what did the unborn baby do to deserve to be killed? The unborn baby didn't rape
her. The man did. And for those who say "But it's a reminder of her being rape."
Look. Rape is awful and NOTHING will make that women forget (except for brain damage maybe.) Now instead of being reminded that she was raped she can be reminded that she was raped and she retaliated against someone innocent.

Of course the way that the Pro-Choice movement tries to get their arguments to work
is by calling the unborn child as not human. As long as we think of it as being a parasite in the womb or calling it a fetus (which ironically is Latin for Unborn Baby)
we will be able to support abortion each and every time. But this kind of thinking
is what allowed slavery to exist for so long. As long as we don't think of the slaves
as human then it's fine to treat them like trash, hurt them and kill them.

I'm against abortions but Pro-Choice but not with the Pro-Choice movement.
It's confusing but it sorta like how I support the right to hate speech, but
am against hate speech and not for any hate speech movements.

So basically I would hope women make the choice for life if they can.
But if they don't and choose an abortion. Well I don't support them doing so.
But I support their right to do so.

[AgentShayd]

Originally Posted by Cloukora

On certain terms, where the reason to have an abortion is proven right, such as it having a birth defect, or the woman not being able to carry the baby for health reasons (like if the baby won't survive or she won't)
but I'm sorry, I don't think being raped could be considered an excuse
wait, I'm not saying I don't feel sorry or anything for them, but for the fact, anyone can use that excuse
like if a teenage girl got pregnant cause she was dumb and had unprotected sex, she could just say she got raped, and it would be allowed, because that can't be proven

This is sad. So the 12 year little girl that was raped by her own grandfather and ended up pregnant must now have a child and be reminded of the fact that she was raped? Not to mention the fact that. that poor child would more then likely have all sorts of health problems. That is extreme but it actually happened...Also I am a rape victim...had I gotten pregnant I wouldn't want to be reminded of it. Would I have ended it? No...but that doesn't mean I would be against someone who did. Sounds heartless....what about the child? How would you feel if you were the product of rape?

ON top of that..... what about the guys that get a girl pregnant and then take off leaving some girl to fend for herself and that child...is that fair? You call the girl stupid...so there is no repercussion for the boy? It take TWO to make a child. It shouldn't have to be up to the girl alone. Now I don't agree with abortion used for a type of birth control. Believe it or not some women do this. Which is ridiculous.... But rape is a got reason in my book. However some ppl might not see it that way. They could argue that the child doesn't deserve that. Well the girl didn't ask to be raped either. Anyways I for one won't have an abortion but it should be our right to decide not someone else. But women should realize that abortion also destroys parts of their body, and even their mind. I know 3 women whom had abortions and regret it everyday. But that is them.

[Bacon]

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Nick Tasogare

If you really think that there are no birth defects that would prevent a person from leading a life then you're ignorant. It's not my fault I'm not a medical professional and can't name them. What do you think prenatal screening is for?

I wasn't directing it at just you. My opinions would unfounded as well as I've never been in this situation. You've given no real reason why abortion is wrong either, just why you think it is, so whatever.

Ah I see, well I was not trying to convince anyone that it was wrong, because I am in no position to judge what if fit and what is not. That said, I am not expecting you to be a medical professional, but you're right in the fact that I am uninformed. However, I am not foolish enough to use something in any of my arguments that I am not somewhat versed in.

It's not my fault you can't think or find a birth defect that wouldn't actually allow the baby to live well into their childhood. When I think of the birth defect argument, I think of the children who were born with something that set them apart from the rest of society and would have the potential to affect them adversely, because they are conscious of their limitations. So far, the only thing you bring up for the birth defect opinion is that it ends up in a miscarriage.

Didn't mean to potentially irritate anyone though, I am just simply not convinced that birth defects are a valid reason; since they tend to be an extreme rather than an uncommon occurrence.

Originally Posted by Slack 40

Who knows whether or not my opinion makes any sense
the way i see it everyone says how "church and state should be separated" So that child whose life ends because someone has an abortion is murder. The child dies thats a life. Now I've argued with some people about this topic and they say well maybe the childs life will be better in heaven. I believe in god, however the government can't make decisions based on god. So as far as they should be concerned that there is no afterlife. The child dies thats it a new born's life is over before they could experience the world. If the baby dies naturally then thats not a crime, but to end its life yourself i can't agree with

^ my own opinion

I understand this, but I think this is based on principle too much. Not everyone in any legislature is basing their yes or no vote based on any religious views.

Originally Posted by Cloukora

On certain terms, where the reason to have an abortion is proven right, such as it having a birth defect, or the woman not being able to carry the baby for health reasons (like if the baby won't survive or she won't)
but I'm sorry, I don't think being raped could be considered an excuse
wait, I'm not saying I don't feel sorry or anything for them, but for the fact, anyone can use that excuse
like if a teenage girl got pregnant cause she was dumb and had unprotected sex, she could just say she got raped, and it would be allowed, because that can't be proven

I'd like to add that the conception that is the result of the rape won't be any different than the babies born out of voluntary sex.

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

I'm Pro-Choice in the sense that I'm not really sure how one would even enforce no abortions? I mean it seems overboard to arrest the would be mom for having an abortion. Though I guess you can arrest the abortionist.

Still I don't agree with the Pro-Choice movement. I think they are too eager for women to have abortions are aren't really for choice at all. They'll support women
who choose to have an abortion but how many times do they support a women
for choosing to have a baby? Hardly ever it seems. Which is quite sad because
it takes more courage to go through labor than it does to have an abortion.

Also the only real argument for abortion being not immoral is the one where giving birth being a danger to the mom. I don't think you can honestly blame a women
if she decides to have an abortion to save herself NOR can you blame a women
who sacrifices herself to give birth. It's really just a terrible situation that thankfully
does not happen as often as the Pro-Choice movement would like for us to believe.


The whole rape argument is just one that caters to emotion when you think about it.
It says that since a woman is raped she has the right to kill her unborn baby. But
what did the unborn baby do to deserve to be killed? The unborn baby didn't rape
her. The man did. And for those who say "But it's a reminder of her being rape."
Look. Rape is awful and NOTHING will make that women forget (except for brain damage maybe.) Now instead of being reminded that she was raped she can be reminded that she was raped and she retaliated against someone innocent.

Of course the way that the Pro-Choice movement tries to get their arguments to work
is by calling the unborn child as not human. As long as we think of it as being a parasite in the womb or calling it a fetus (which ironically is Latin for Unborn Baby)
we will be able to support abortion each and every time. But this kind of thinking
is what allowed slavery to exist for so long. As long as we don't think of the slaves
as human then it's fine to treat them like trash, hurt them and kill them.

I'm against abortions but Pro-Choice but not with the Pro-Choice movement.
It's confusing but it sorta like how I support the right to hate speech, but
am against hate speech and not for any hate speech movements.

So basically I would hope women make the choice for life if they can.
But if they don't and choose an abortion. Well I don't support them doing so.
But I support their right to do so.

Just adding my tow cents, I agree with everything to a point,but the red is the most important part.

Originally Posted by AgentShayd

This is sad. So the 12 year little girl that was raped by her own grandfather and ended up pregnant must now have a child and be reminded of the fact that she was raped? Not to mention the fact that. that poor child would more then likely have all sorts of health problems. That is extreme but it actually happened...Also I am a rape victim...had I gotten pregnant I wouldn't want to be reminded of it. Would I have ended it? No...but that doesn't mean I would be against someone who did. Sounds heartless....what about the child? How would you feel if you were the product of rape?

ON top of that..... what about the guys that get a girl pregnant and then take off leaving some girl to fend for herself and that child...is that fair? You call the girl stupid...so there is no repercussion for the boy? It take TWO to make a child. It shouldn't have to be up to the girl alone. Now I don't agree with abortion used for a type of birth control. Believe it or not some women do this. Which is ridiculous.... But rape is a got reason in my book. However some ppl might not see it that way. They could argue that the child doesn't deserve that. Well the girl didn't ask to be raped either. Anyways I for one won't have an abortion but it should be our right to decide not someone else. But women should realize that abortion also destroys parts of their body, and even their mind. I know 3 women whom had abortions and regret it everyday. But that is them.

Depends on how you were raised shayds, if the mother lets the child know it's not their fault; then there is no controversy over that. That said, I know you wouldn't have an abortion and I know how much of a burden having a child can be if the father takes off, but that's still no excuse. There is always another option other than killing the baby.

[Cloukora]

Originally Posted by AgentShayd

This is sad. So the 12 year little girl that was raped by her own grandfather and ended up pregnant must now have a child and be reminded of the fact that she was raped? Not to mention the fact that. that poor child would more then likely have all sorts of health problems. That is extreme but it actually happened...Also I am a rape victim...had I gotten pregnant I wouldn't want to be reminded of it. Would I have ended it? No...but that doesn't mean I would be against someone who did. Sounds heartless....what about the child? How would you feel if you were the product of rape?

ON top of that..... what about the guys that get a girl pregnant and then take off leaving some girl to fend for herself and that child...is that fair? You call the girl stupid...so there is no repercussion for the boy? It take TWO to make a child. It shouldn't have to be up to the girl alone. Now I don't agree with abortion used for a type of birth control. Believe it or not some women do this. Which is ridiculous.... But rape is a got reason in my book. However some ppl might not see it that way. They could argue that the child doesn't deserve that. Well the girl didn't ask to be raped either. Anyways I for one won't have an abortion but it should be our right to decide not someone else. But women should realize that abortion also destroys parts of their body, and even their mind. I know 3 women whom had abortions and regret it everyday. But that is them.

I don't like it either, but like I said, anyone can use rape as an excuse to get an abortion, unless they can find some way to prove she was raped, then that's awesome
and like I said as well, if the baby has health problems, then that's reasonable

well, yeah, I would still say she's dumb, because she could have used protection, or even just not had sex in the first place
and there are plenty of moms that raised their children by themselves and they both ended up fine, sure it's difficult, but raising a child is
hell, my dad left my mom after I was born and she raised me, even though it was only a couple months, because he came back, still, she managed

I apologize though if my statement on rape upset you, I wish no one could go through something like that

[Danielle]

That option is, adoption. There are plenty of people who cannot get pregnant who would love to have children.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by AgentShayd

This is sad. So the 12 year little girl that was raped by her own grandfather and ended up pregnant must now have a child and be reminded of the fact that she was raped?

And an abortion is somehow going to make her forget that she was raped?
NOTHING I repeat NOTHING will make the girl forget such a tragedy
as being raped especially by her own grandfather. An abortion is just a short term "solution" for a long term problem. It's a way to retaliate.
But instead of fighting back against the rapist the anger is being
directed against someone innocent. It's really not much different
from a rape victim who had a kid killing her own child because it
was a product of rape.

Not to mention the fact that. that poor child would more then likely have all sorts of health problems. That is extreme but it actually happened...Also I am a rape victim...had I gotten pregnant I wouldn't want to be reminded of it. Would I have ended it? No...but that doesn't mean I would be against someone who did. Sounds heartless....what about the child? How would you feel if you were the product of rape?

That is speculative. But even if it had health problems that doesn't mean
it doesn't deserve to live just as much as any of us "healthy" people.
When you say an unborn child should be aborted because of health
problems you are in effect telling every person with that type of health
problem that is alive that they should not be alive.

I'm sorry that happened to you. But as I said before having an abortion
would be at best a temporary solution. I hope you don't get the wrong
idea and think that I am judging rape victims who had abortions. While
I don't think it was the right choice I can understand such a choice.
I do not blame rape victims. I blame the culture that says abortion
is a quick fix to life's problems.

If I was the product of rape. I would be sad. But I would also be thankful that I got the chance to live and even if my life was short hopefully
I would be able to make an impression.

ON top of that..... what about the guys that get a girl pregnant and then take off leaving some girl to fend for herself and that child...is that fair?

Of course not. Those guys are scum.

You call the girl stupid...so there is no repercussion for the boy? It take TWO to make a child. It shouldn't have to be up to the girl alone.

Agreed.

Now I don't agree with abortion used for a type of birth control.
Believe it or not some women do this. Which is ridiculous....

Actually that's probably the number one reason women have abortions.
Which is why I don't support the Pro-Choice Movement because it's
really just about what's convenient.

But rape is a got reason in my book. However some ppl might not see it that way. They could argue that the child doesn't deserve that. Well the girl didn't ask to be raped either.

But that's just saying two wrongs make a right. You're saying that because of the wrong of being raped that it makes it ok to retaliate against someone who is innocent and much weaker. From that you've virtually become the person who caused you to suffer. One might think that
being raped gives you the right to retaliate but what about the rapists
themselves? Sometimes rapists were victims of abuse themselves.
But does that justify their actions? After all just as one might think
an unborn baby is not human so the rapists thinks of his victim.
Remember that hurt people hurt people.


Anyways I for one won't have an abortion but it should be our right to decide not someone else.

I agree actually. But I don't think abortion should be encouraged.


But women should realize that abortion also destroys parts of their body, and even their mind. I know 3 women whom had abortions and regret it everyday. But that is them.

This is of course what the Pro-Choice Movement does not want you to know. They make abortion seem like a simple solution. Got pregnant?
Get Abortion. Is basically what it's made out to be. Abortionists want you
to think that they care about woman's health and about your freedom
to choose. But the reality is that they are just looking to make money.

reply in black

[Slack 40]

@bacon I'm not saying everyone is like this that is only my personal opinion on how to view it
Its what I think is the way to see it

[AgentShayd]

Originally Posted by Cloukora

I don't like it either, but like I said, anyone can use rape as an excuse to get an abortion, unless they can find some way to prove she was raped, then that's awesome
and like I said as well, if the baby has health problems, then that's reasonable

well, yeah, I would still say she's dumb, because she could have used protection, or even just not had sex in the first place
and there are plenty of moms that raised their children by themselves and they both ended up fine, sure it's difficult, but raising a child is
hell, my dad left my mom after I was born and she raised me, even though it was only a couple months, because he came back, still, she managed

I apologize though if my statement on rape upset you, I wish no one could go through something like that

So the guy is free and clear? I mean god forbid he has a condom on him...gee that is to much to ask for. You are thinking one sided. It is NOT always the girls fault. Rape is not an excuse...and Abortion is expensive. I think you should watch one and then follow that person around for a while and see what it is like. Even adoption is taxing on a person. I would know.. And since you wanna group us girls as stupid you might as well add me into there. Because I got pregnant as a teen. So I guess I am stupid because I didn't stop him from doing what he wanted. I stuck it out! I had the baby and I put her up for adoption. Not everyone is the same. AND just so you know adoptions hurt to. There is not a day that goes by that I do NOT think of her. It sucks...This was a little personal but I thought maybe some experience on the subject might help. But we have the right to decide and should have the right to NOT be harassed or attacked for it. I am done with this because frankly I am getting to pissed off about it. When you are sexually abused and raped then we shall talk!

@Sticky: I just have my own views...though I respect yours... I actually like you. We just see things differently...^^

[Cloukora]

Originally Posted by AgentShayd

So the guy is free and clear? I mean god forbid he has a condom on him...gee that is to much to ask for. You are thinking one sided. It is NOT always the girls fault. Rape is not an excuse...and Abortion is expensive. I think you should watch one and then follow that person around for a while and see what it is like. Even adoption is taxing on a person. I would know.. And since you wanna group us girls as stupid you might as well add me into there. Because I got pregnant as a teen. So I guess I am stupid because I didn't stop him from doing what he wanted. I stuck it out! I had the baby and I put her up for adoption. Not everyone is the same. AND just so you know adoptions hurt to. There is not a day that goes by that I do NOT think of her. It sucks...This was a little personal but I thought maybe some experience on the subject might help. But we have the right to decide and should have the right to NOT be harassed or attacked for it. I am done with this because frankly I am getting to pissed off about it. When you are sexually abused and raped then we shall talk!

@Sticky: I just have my own views...though I respect yours... I actually like you. We just see things differently...^^

no, I know it's the guys fault as well, they're both at fault
and I know rape is not an excuse, but I'm saying someone can USE it as an excuse to get an abortion
and I'm not grouping all girls ad stupid, I was just using an example
and I guess I'm done too, cause I'm apparently not getting my point out clearly

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by AgentShayd

So the guy is free and clear? I mean god forbid he has a condom on him...gee that is to much to ask for. You are thinking one sided. It is NOT always the girls fault. Rape is not an excuse...and Abortion is expensive. I think you should watch one and then follow that person around for a while and see what it is like. Even adoption is taxing on a person. I would know.. And since you wanna group us girls as stupid you might as well add me into there. Because I got pregnant as a teen. So I guess I am stupid because I didn't stop him from doing what he wanted. I stuck it out! I had the baby and I put her up for adoption. Not everyone is the same. AND just so you know adoptions hurt to. There is not a day that goes by that I do NOT think of her. It sucks...This was a little personal but I thought maybe some experience on the subject might help. But we have the right to decide and should have the right to NOT be harassed or attacked for it. I am done with this because frankly I am getting to pissed off about it. When you are sexually abused and raped then we shall talk!

@Sticky: I just have my own views...though I respect yours... I actually like you. We just see things differently...^^

I'm pretty much against abortions except in the case of giving birth being a threat to the mother. Still I can't say I would be for an abortion even then.
Yet as even I am against it I don't think we should demonize women for
having abortions. At the same time we should not praise them either.
Mostly I just don't think abortions should be encouraged just as hate
speech shouldn't be encouraged. However I do think condoms and even birth control is fine. Abortion is just where the line is crossed IMO.

[Merechan]

In certain situations, like when it's threatening the mother's health, it should be allowed. In any other case, like if a girl's just an idiot, or if she got drunk, or something, it shouldn't be allowed. If they don't want the baby, then there's always adoption.

[UsagiMizuki]

This is a really sensitive subject..

I personally am totally one hundred percent aganist abortion. No one has to agree with my beliefs, but to me.. It's aganist nature.

Before anyone who is for abortions says something about that, I don't look down on anyone that has had a abortion or anyone who think's it's okay. Like I said, no one has to agree with me. ^^

But to me, abortion is just wrong. Yes, I understand that people who were raped don't want any memory of that and I completely understand that.. Being raped is horrible and I would never wish that upon anyone. I've never been raped, but I can say that I understand something similar to it. It make's you feel.. well it's hard to explain. But I have not been raped and don't truely understand that feeling. I just understand that once it's happened, you don't want any reminder of that. A child can be a reminder of that.. but the thing is.. that child did nothing to deserve to die.

Abortion to me is killing someone. I've heard many people say, "Not really. It's too young to be a person." No. To me it is still a human being. You are taking the life away from that person. I think it's aganist the law's of nature. You should never consider killing anyone. Anyone! That child deserves a chance at life. Adoption is always a option and it is a great thing if you truely can not take care of that child.

And yeah I also get that many people are Pro-Choice because of the fact that the mother could be killed or hurt from the pregnacy and thing's such as that. Yeah, I understand where you may consider abortion. It's natural instinct to not want to die and to try to save yourself if you can, especially when you didn't want to have that child in the first place (if you were raped).. but it still doesn't seem fair to me. That child is innocent and is at your mercy. You decide wheither it live's or not.

Anyway, that's my opinon. I get people who agree with Pro-Choice's opinon's and points, but I still believe it's wrong.