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Old 03-18-2011, 03:07 PM   #21
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Default Re: Temari vs Konan

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Originally Posted by Frost ninja View Post
True as that may be, do you have any proofing as to how strong the fireball was? If the paper isnt proofed to be forest strong, I'd trust something that lopped trees apart at a distance possibly hundreds of meters away from the epicenter of the actual attack.
It's Jiraya's fire, the same type of Fire that went into Toad Flame bombs that roasted an entire shell of Manda away in mere seconds, if that. I'd trust it to be pretty damn strong.


And to the whole Gama thing, all he did was provide oil to spread it out further.
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Old 03-18-2011, 03:12 PM   #22
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Default Re: Temari vs Konan

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Originally Posted by J-Sun Tasogare View Post
It's Jiraya's fire, the same type of Fire that went into Toad Flame bombs that roasted an entire shell of Manda away in mere seconds, if that. I'd trust it to be pretty damn strong.

The oil might have been special, after all toad oil is regarded in this story as something different. How do we know that didnt catalyze the overall power of the fire attack to boost it? Can you proof the power of the fire itself in any other example where its used alone?

Otherwise I'll write it down under "weaker than paper"


And to the whole Gama thing, all he did was provide oil to spread it out further.

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Old 03-18-2011, 03:16 PM   #23
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Default Re: Temari vs Konan

The oil might have been special, after all toad oil is regarded in this story as something different. How do we know that didnt catalyze the overall power of the fire attack to boost it? Can you proof the power of the fire itself in any other example where its used alone?
Can you prove that it does enhance the power of fire? If not my scenario is more likely, plus if you're trying to say a Sanin whose main element is Fire has fire that is weaker than paper then you prolly need to rethink what you're saying. It'd be like saying a blow torch couldn't go through paper cause you never saw it in person it's just an understood fact that ANY fire>>>>>>>>Paper. Besides Konan's that is
Otherwise I'll write it down under "weaker than paper"
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Old 03-18-2011, 03:22 PM   #24
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Default Re: Temari vs Konan

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Originally Posted by J-Sun Tasogare View Post
The oil might have been special, after all toad oil is regarded in this story as something different. How do we know that didnt catalyze the overall power of the fire attack to boost it? Can you proof the power of the fire itself in any other example where its used alone?
Can you prove that it does enhance the power of fire? If not my scenario is more likely, plus if you're trying to say a Sanin whose main element is Fire has fire that is weaker than paper then you prolly need to rethink what you're saying. It'd be like saying a blow torch couldn't go through paper cause you never saw it in person it's just an understood fact that ANY fire>>>>>>>>Paper. Besides Konan's that is
Otherwise I'll write it down under "weaker than paper"
We go off of feats. Logic can boil those feats down, but unless you have it we can't assume anything without the proper proof. After all, we can assume all we want that certain things are true, but wihout proof they are just assumptions.

Now how do we know that his fire element isnt fully-developed until sage mode? Also yes, fire > paper. However konan's paper is < fire. Question is by how much, and how strong is the paper itself?
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Old 03-18-2011, 03:48 PM   #25
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Default Re: Temari vs Konan

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Originally Posted by Frost ninja View Post
We go off of feats. Logic can boil those feats down, but unless you have it we can't assume anything without the proper proof. After all, we can assume all we want that certain things are true, but wihout proof they are just assumptions.
That makes sense, logic must not apply to anything, so I guess we don't know if the heart pumps blood cause we never explicitly SAW it pump blood in the manga.
Now how do we know that his fire element isnt fully-developed until sage mode? Also yes, fire > paper. However konan's paper is < fire. Question is by how much, and how strong is the paper itself?
Because it's common sense that a Sanin would be good in his element if an average Jonin can use good fire style then Jiraiya's>>>>>Jonin's.

Also you haven't proven that the oil actually does anything to the fire besides spread it, until then it's common oil that comes out of a toad.
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Old 03-18-2011, 04:07 PM   #26
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Default Re: Temari vs Konan

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Because it's common sense that a Sanin would be good in his element if an average Jonin can use good fire style then Jiraiya's>>>>>Jonin's.

Well thats not 100% true, after all characters are always falling behind others. A jirayia fire here could easily be the next fodder ninja fire there. Not like succession of skills and growth and whatnot never happen.

Also you haven't proven that the oil actually does anything to the fire besides spread it, until then it's common oil that comes out of a toad.

Well then lets assume its just plain oil. Jirayia's fire does what a matchstick could do.

As for your logic, theres a difference between something we have proven via science like heart pumping blood or gravity, and assuming that a fire attack can or cannot beat out modified paper.
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Old 03-18-2011, 04:13 PM   #27
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Default Re: Temari vs Konan

What is the strongest thing Konan has cut with her paper?
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Old 03-18-2011, 04:34 PM   #28
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Default Re: Temari vs Konan

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As for your logic, theres a difference between something we have proven via science like heart pumping blood or gravity, and assuming that a fire attack can or cannot beat out modified paper.
Well by what you JUST said in context we can't use logic on anything. Gravity also varies, as well blood pumping. Anyways, the is no way in hell some match can burn through a giant snake shedding in seconds.
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Old 03-18-2011, 04:44 PM   #29
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Default Re: Temari vs Konan

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What is the strongest thing Konan has cut with her paper?
Chap 373 at a young age Konan's birds pierced Jiraiya all the way through.
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:26 PM   #30
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Default Re: Temari vs Konan

It depends if Konan has set up Paper sea. If yes, she pwns.
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:46 PM   #31
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Default Re: Temari vs Konan

What what I have seen and heard of Konan, Temari wins because her wind moves stop Konan's paper in mid flight. The only way I see Konan winning here is if she uses the move she used against Madara(which took months of prep.)
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:13 PM   #32
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Default Re: Temari vs Konan

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Konan's paper stood up to Fire Style jutsu casually, it's soooo underated. Water doesn't affect it, and if the paper is moving fast enough wind wouldn't blow it away, let alone cut all of it, cause Konan can make a sheet ton of it, and make it move fast, add that with Paper clones that could explode and surround Temari, I think Konan takes this with some difficulty, as well what's stopping her for detonating the paper launched at Temari to disperse the wind? Also Konan is made of paper kind of like a logia but not as good, a quick beheading dance wouldn't do anything, if she does it as fast as you said she'd just exhaust herself.
Its resistant to fire. That doesn't make it resistant to wind. Water does affect her, but not nearly as much as things like oil. And even if it were resistant to water, that also doesn't make it resistant to wind. Its a different type of damage.

If Konan makes a sh;t lot of paper, Temari makes a sh;t lot of wind. It can be countered. Clones aren't really doing anything, since they can blown away as well. The explosions given off by Konans attacks would not be great enough to blast through the metal piercing wind. At the very most, stop it from moving forwards. A quick Beheading dance would slice her up, how would it not do anything to her? As a last note, Quick Beheading Dance did not seem to tire Temari out at all when she used it against Tayuya. Part II Temari with greater chakra reserves is only going to find it less draining.
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Old 03-19-2011, 11:24 AM   #33
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Default Re: Temari vs Konan

well tamari can cut trees, but i dont know konan's paper compared to tree's either.
at weakest levels konan throws paper and tamari fans them away,
so if its a battle of whos basis is atronger tamari wins
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Old 03-19-2011, 11:53 AM   #34
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Default Re: Temari vs Konan

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Its resistant to fire. That doesn't make it resistant to wind. Water does affect her, but not nearly as much as things like oil. And even if it were resistant to water, that also doesn't make it resistant to wind. Its a different type of damage.

If Konan makes a sh;t lot of paper, Temari makes a sh;t lot of wind. It can be countered. Clones aren't really doing anything, since they can blown away as well. The explosions given off by Konans attacks would not be great enough to blast through the metal piercing wind. At the very most, stop it from moving forwards. A quick Beheading dance would slice her up, how would it not do anything to her? As a last note, Quick Beheading Dance did not seem to tire Temari out at all when she used it against Tayuya. Part II Temari with greater chakra reserves is only going to find it less draining.
It's not resistant, that's just it's strength.

Metal piercing? Chapter and Page. And yes they would, explosions makes it own energy that is WAAAAY stronger than wind since the force given off by explosions can kill people easily.

Because she turns to paper.

Greater chakra reserves? She didn't even fight after using that, we've seen Konan kill multiple Jonin, make a giant tree out of paper, as well as a lake of paper, if a swing of a fan is greater than that then your argument ends here.

Konan's paper>Trees if it stood up to Jiraiya's fire, add that to the fact that it's hard to cut something smaller (Hence takuya being at the center of the blast and her only damage being trees falling on her) leads me to believe that it can't be aimed well.
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Old 03-19-2011, 08:52 PM   #35
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Default Re: Temari vs Konan

The thing is, with the radius it covers, it doesn't have to be all that precise.
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Old 03-20-2011, 06:57 AM   #36
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Default Re: Temari vs Konan

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It's not resistant, that's just it's strength.
Proof of that.

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Metal piercing? Chapter and Page. And yes they would, explosions makes it own energy that is WAAAAY stronger than wind since the force given off by explosions can kill people easily.
Can't remember the chapter. During the Kage Summit she skillfully slices through a Samurais armour, to get Amaterasu flames off of him.

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Because she turns to paper.
And then she gets sliced up in her paper form.

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Greater chakra reserves? She didn't even fight after using that, we've seen Konan kill multiple Jonin, make a giant tree out of paper, as well as a lake of paper, if a swing of a fan is greater than that then your argument ends here
.

Yes. After using Quick Beheading Dance she wasn't even remotely tired out. So naturally Part II Temari can summon those winds with even less chakra. I wasn't comparing Temaris chakra with Konans, just so ya know. A swing of a fan is able to cut down a large amount of trees, and has the ability to cut through things as hard as metal. Temari arguably has the speed to swing her fan before sound waves could reach her. And top that all off they're fighting at 50 metres, and are bloodlusted. My argument is most certainly not void.

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Konan's paper>Trees if it stood up to Jiraiya's fire, add that to the fact that it's hard to cut something smaller (Hence takuya being at the center of the blast and her only damage being trees falling on her) leads me to believe that it can't be aimed well.
Part I Temari could cut through wood, and as Tayuya hid behind a tree, the wind didn't seem to reach her - since it was coming at her from behind. Naturally the attack missed. Part II Temari cuts through metal with ease. Paper will be easy biscuits to cut. Konans paper is able to withstand to fire. But theres nothing proving its strong against slicing wind attacks. In the same way if you throwing a slicing blade at a man in strong armour, the attack is stopped. But if you fire a scorching fire at him, the intense heat can still kill him. Paper is normally burnt to cinders in fire, but Konan apparently has some sort of special paper that is resistant to it, like chakra coatings or something. But fire damage is completely different to Wind damage. You can't compare them.
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