New Software?

[Sajuuk]

Hi

I've been speaking to a few people and they said that they wouldn't register here because it's powered by vBulletin. As most know, vBulletin 3 was a great series of software, but was ruined by the preceding vBulletin 4.

To possibly save costs (and ofc this idea of mine will need to be discussed internally), you could switch to a free alternative, one such example would be MyBB, which has a simple code base, is lightweight and many big boards run it without a problem. There are plenty of plugins and themes around (suggestion would be to get a custom theme for the site) and as the plugin system is pretty simple, it wouldn't be too difficult to make your own custom hacks to the site.

Your thoughts? Of course, I know the saying "If it's not broken, don't fix it" but vB is known to create a lot of lag and db corruption on larger sites.

[Ur Mom]

Kazekage, the forums was A HELL OF A LOT more larger back before you joined, we don't need to worry about lag through expansion (because, true back in the day, MANY problems were made because of the lack of bandwidth available, A LOT)

But, now this is not an issue.



By the way: WHO PAYS for the use of vBulletin anyways, the admins or just a little something from Viz?

[Sajuuk]

vB is quite expensive. DB Corruption is known among the larger vBulletin boards.

It's only a matter of time when vB3.8 becomes supportless and End of Life.

I'd also like to know who manages the vBulletin license

[Toma RNK]

Holy Mis-Information batman.

Let me try to address these one at a time:

I've been speaking to a few people and they said that they wouldn't register here because it's powered by vBulletin. As most know, vBulletin 3 was a great series of software, but was ruined by the preceding vBulletin 4.

Notice we are still chilling at 3.8? Yeah that would be because we saw no reason to update.

People unwilling to join cause we are on vbulletin? I hope you are making that up cause that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If there are people like that I am glad they are not here.

To possibly save costs (and ofc this idea of mine will need to be discussed internally), you could switch to a free alternative, one such example would be MyBB, which has a simple code base, is lightweight and many big boards run it without a problem. There are plenty of plugins and themes around (suggestion would be to get a custom theme for the site) and as the plugin system is pretty simple, it wouldn't be too difficult to make your own custom hacks to the site.

How do those forums handle load balancing and server clusters? I'd be interested in seeing how they mitigate some of the issues with load balancing.

Kazekage, the forums was A HELL OF A LOT more larger back before you joined, we don't need to worry about lag through expansion (because, true back in the day, MANY problems were made because of the lack of bandwidth available, A LOT)

Wrong answer is wrong. Viz never had a bandwidth problem, it was because of improper load balancing and thus the database server getting raped 5 ways to sunday ending in database corruption. This is not to be confused with the standard database corruption with vbulletin 4 which wouldn't hit us too hard given that we aren't running everything off one server.

By the way: WHO PAYS for the use of vBulletin anyways, the admins or just a little something from Viz?

Viz would pay and it is not a big deal to them. These forums aren't on vbulletin 4 because thus far v4 has not much to offer.

vB is quite expensive. DB Corruption is known among the larger vBulletin boards.

It's only a matter of time when vB3.8 becomes supportless and End of Life.

Our server setup is fundamentally different than many of those large boards.

Yes 3.8 will hit EOL eventually but it's not like we have EVER relied on vbulletin for help. The only thing that would force an upgrade would be security exploits. Whether we will go to vbulletin 4 or go through the painful process of rebuilding the database for another forum software has yet to be decided. I think right now we are waiting to see if vbulletin pulls its head out of it's bum.

Standard disclaimer:

While I am highly involved with much of the high end technical stuff here, I do not actually work for viz nor do my views represent those of Viz media LLC, it's employees, or affiliates.

[Sajuuk]

Originally Posted by Toma RNK

Notice we are still chilling at 3.8? Yeah that would be because we saw no reason to update.

Which I think is a great decision.

People unwilling to join cause we are on vbulletin? I hope you are making that up cause that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If there are people like that I am glad they are not here.

Nope, I'm not making that up at all. It is rather stupid, I agree.

How do those forums handle load balancing and server clusters? I'd be interested in seeing how they mitigate some of the issues with load balancing.

The large forums running MyBB modified most of the core code with better, efficient SQL queries. They have a separate server with MySQL (Remote MySQL enabled) and another server for the files. I don't know the specifics as I don't visit many large MyBB forums.

Our server setup is fundamentally different than many of those large boards.

Indeed it is.

Yes 3.8 will hit EOL eventually but it's not like we have EVER relied on vbulletin for help. The only thing that would force an upgrade would be security exploits. Whether we will go to vbulletin 4 or go through the painful process of rebuilding the database for another forum software has yet to be decided. I think right now we are waiting to see if vbulletin pulls its head out of it's bum.

vBulletin 4 is a disaster waiting to happen. One site which was running a very old version of vBulletin 3 (3.0.7) upgraded and had all sorts of server loading problems, broken styles, time outs etc for some time afterwards.

[Toma RNK]

Originally Posted by The Kazekage

The large forums running MyBB modified most of the core code with better, efficient SQL queries. They have a separate server with MySQL (Remote MySQL enabled) and another server for the files. I don't know the specifics as I don't visit many large MyBB forums.

We are doing quite a bit more than that. Be assured that it helps us avoid some of the problems you outline, however it comes at the cost of needing to carefully manage the load balanced http servers.

I hope I have explained why we are staying where we are.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by The Kazekage

vBulletin 4 is a disaster waiting to happen. One site which was running a very old version of vBulletin 3 (3.0.7) upgraded and had all sorts of server loading problems, broken styles, time outs etc for some time afterwards.

That is WAY too big a leap in versions, no wonder your styles and database were screwed. NEVER EVER make a leap that big when dealing with any php/sql software. Ever.

Always baby step up or you will have problems.

[Sajuuk]

Originally Posted by Toma RNK

We are doing quite a bit more than that. Be assured that it helps us avoid some of the problems you outline, however it comes at the cost of needing to carefully manage the load balanced http servers.

Just curious, does the server run Apache? If so, then I'd suggest something else like litespeed, lighttpd, or nginx, as they are so much faster than Apache.

I hope I have explained why we are staying where we are.

This is fine, thanks Toma

That is WAY too big a leap in versions, no wonder your styles and database were screwed. NEVER EVER make a leap that big when dealing with any php/sql software. Ever.

Always baby step up or you will have problems.

Wasn't my forum anyway, so I could care less
But you are right, it was a major jump up for that site.

[Toma RNK]

Originally Posted by The Kazekage

Just curious, does the server run Apache? If so, then I'd suggest something else like litespeed, lighttpd, or nginx, as they are so much faster than Apache.

They are, but Viz actually has reasons for needing apache to be running on their numerous http servers. Also:

nginx: no linix support
litespeed: would require enterprise version which costs money, apache doesn't, and multiple licenses would be needed for multiple http servers.
lighttpd: We aren't having load problems as we a re load balancing. Needless solution at this time.

[Sajuuk]

Originally Posted by Toma RNK

nginx: no linix support

Just checked on the Official nginx Wiki, it does support linux: http://wiki.nginx.org/Install#

litespeed: would require enterprise version which costs money, apache doesn't, and multiple licenses would be needed for multiple http servers.

I believe a free version exists, but I dunno if it can be used in multiple http servers for one site.

lighttpd: We aren't having load problems as we a re load balancing. Needless solution at this time.

Oh ok.

[Toma RNK]

Originally Posted by The Kazekage

Just checked on the Official nginx Wiki, it does support linux: http://wiki.nginx.org/Install#


I believe a free version exists, but I dunno if it can be used in multiple http servers for one site.


Oh ok.

Again it's something that doesn't need fixing, and there is no need to bother viz's IT department to fix something that aint broke. When it is close to broke they will consider fixing it. Why spend cash to fix something that is at only 15% utilization right now.

[Sajuuk]

Meh, true. Eventually it'll need fixed, but since nothing's broke, it doesn't need fixing.

Just thought I'd put my 2c in to improve this epic forum

[Toma RNK]

Originally Posted by The Kazekage

Meh, true. Eventually it'll need fixed, but since nothing's broke, it doesn't need fixing.

Just thought I'd put my 2c in to improve this epic forum

I don't think it will need fixing. Where many places have 1 server or possibly two running the forums and a web site viz has 5 or 6 dedicated servers. They are not anywhere NEAR max utilization.

While I love constructive criticism, using industry standards can save a TON on IT costs for a large company.

I am running lighttpd on 2 of my boxes, but don't think viz should.

Thanks again for useful input though, I miss intelligent suggestions.

[Sajuuk]

Exactly. Maybe in the next 5 years, the site will be sufficiently busy to receive an upgrade XD

Not a problem, I like to help others and make suggestions

A mod can close this now

[Toma RNK]

/click