Forgotten military powers

[Ninja of Cao]

Originally Posted by Wooster

The F-22 is considered the state-of-art when it comes to aircraft. It is just a massive waste of money. The F-16 gets better bang for the buck. The J-20 may be better than the the F-16, but as no one has as much war-time flight experience as American fighter pilots, so it matters little.

Of course, whereas US dominates the skies. In naval affairs, no other country is more than a tadpole. The US has more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world combined. Planes don't do you much good if you have to fly them half way across the world.

So USA got naval quantity. But what does it matter when so many navies are better equipped, and their soldiers more experienced or trained?

[Wooster]

No naval power anywhere near the strength the US naval forces. The US polices the worlds shipping lanes because only it can. It think you fail to realize the US spends more money on the military than all the other nations combined, which means our equipment is better than everyone else. Only a few nation have one piece of arment here and there,which can compare at all. Our soldiers are better trained in real combat situation as the US actually fights wars. Sweden, which does not, has none.

Saddam Hussian's army was considered the best in the Arab world. It did fight Iran to a standstill after all, and it was crushed in matter of days...twice.

[Kreegah!!!]

Originally Posted by Ninja of Tao

The best planes of WWII was built in Japan. On second place were Germany and third England.

The planes you speak of were outdated in Germany. They were used against Africa because the best defense Africa had was a machine gun from WWI and two British colonists with rifles.

All very nice, most very wrong or over-exaggerated, and every piece irrelevant to the point i was making, or was I unclear?

[Kingsnoke]

Originally Posted by Ninja of Tao

So USA got naval quantity. But what does it matter when so many navies are better equipped, and their soldiers are more experienced or trained?

So part of the reason the US is hated by parts of the world, is because It makes everything its business. This is proven by the fact that the US has fought numerous more wars about trivial matters than any other nation.

So how is it that a country like Sweden, which doesn't fight in wars all the time, has soldiers that are more experienced?

[Ninja of Cao]

Originally Posted by Wooster

No naval power anywhere near the strength the US naval forces. The US polices the worlds shipping lanes because only it can. It think you fail to realize the US spends more money on the military than all the other nations combined, which means our equipment is better than everyone else. Only a few nation have one piece of arment here and there,which can compare at all. Our soldiers are better trained in real combat situation as the US actually fights wars. Sweden, which does not, has none.

Saddam Hussian's army was considered the best in the Arab world. It did fight Iran to a standstill after all, and it was crushed in matter of days...twice.

Actually, Japan has the best equipped navy in the world. And US investments are on upkeeping their current army, while peaceful nations instead invest to develop better equipment rather than being old-fashioned. Because of this indeniable fact, USA is weak in quality.

Originally Posted by Kingsnoke

So part of the reason the US is hated by parts of the world, is because It makes everything its business. This is proven by the fact that the US has fought numerous more wars about trivial matters than any other nation.

So how is it that a country like Sweden, which doesn't fight in wars all the time, has soldiers that are more experienced?

Sweden has the best military training in Europe, giving our regular field troops twice as good skills as the best US Marines.

[puppetmasterpossession]

...I think Italy is the coolest...do something with them in it!

[Bacon]

Originally Posted by Ninja of Tao

Actually, Japan has the best equipped navy in the world. And US investments are on upkeeping their current army, while peaceful nations instead invest to develop better equipment rather than being old-fashioned. Because of this indeniable fact, USA is weak in quality.

Sweden has the best military training in Europe, giving our regular field troops twice as good skills as the best US Marines.

Wow this is still going? Well you want to know why no one can remotely agree with you on so many levels? It's because your opening statements and everyone that followed is based on this non nonsensical string of opinions based on nothing.

Yes we get it, you love your country.

[Kingsnoke]

Originally Posted by Ninja of Tao

Actually, Japan has the best equipped navy in the world. And US investments are on upkeeping their current army, while peaceful nations instead invest to develop better equipment rather than being old-fashioned. Because of this indeniable fact, USA is weak in quality.

Sweden has the best military training in Europe, giving our regular field troops twice as good skills as the best US Marines.

Training≠Experience

Also: This

Originally Posted by Bacon

Wow this is still going? Well you want to know why no one can remotely agree with you on so many levels? It's because your opening statements and everyone that followed is based on this non nonsensical string of opinions based on nothing.

Yes we get it, you love your country.

[Chidori of Death]

..........This calls for the Here we go again image. e.e

[HeavenShocking LunarFang7]

Before I post I would just like to say that my response is going to disagree with your points, but simply point out certain facts about the American and Russian forces that weren't pointed out.

For Egypt:

Spoiler:

You state that they have more experience in desert warfare, which is true. But you failed to realize that Russian and American armed forces have experienced desert warfare in the past/present, and strongly train it to their Armies today. Though it isn't close to as good as the Egyptians, they still have experience with it, and can use it quiet well.

One vehicle you (probably) forgot about for American vehicles: The M1A1 Abrams. The tank is considered the best tank ever constructed by man. It's been tested on the field with results that far surpass any other tank recorded. It's main canon can destroy others within the first few shots. It also has incredible range for a tank.
Another one is the Humvee. With most able to reach the speeds of any other regular car, it also has great protection and firepower. Built with regular armor able to resist most weapons like RPG's, it also has Kevlar inside and out. Plus bullet-proof glass, it's safety is among the best for it's class. Some Humvee are attached with standard Light Machine Guns, like the M249 SAW and the M60, both can rip any person in half, and can pierce armor and walls. But the majority carry a 50. Caliber Machine Gun, which can pierce almost to all armor, including tanks with enough shots into it, and can go through any surface an enemy might be hiding behind. It sends the enemy into panic when being shot at.

As for tactical bombing, the Russian and American air power is huge. They have bombers that can hold thousands of tons of bombs, some are impossible to detect, and can also reach speeds of any other aircraft.

For India:

Spoiler:

AA Tanks are great, but they lack in protection for the crew inside, and rarely every see any enemy besides aircraft's. So in early stages of war, these tanks are useful, but can be easily taken out but ground troops and aircraft's alike.

The use of Nukes is against the Rules of War. Any country who uses Nukes against another country, is automatically attacked by the UN, and most of the world countries.

The US forces are trained in Tiquando, Karate, etc. etc. And that's the US alone. For all you and I know, the Russian military could be trained be able to take down anything in its path.

For Japan:

Spoiler:

Everything is basically true except for public support; The Russian public basically never publicly disagrees with it's choices. Resistant armor; Russians and Americans have the strongest armor around. And soldier training; In the American Armed Forces, if you're not the best around at what you do, you're not on the front lines.

For Sweden:

Spoiler:

I'm not going to say anything, because I don't want you to explode on me, and threaten to have Swedish spies kill me.

Just my opinion.

[Ninja of Cao]

Originally Posted by puppetmasterpossession

...I think Italy is the coolest...do something with them in it!

Well, I did plan on writing a thread about the Axis, including Fascist Italy.

Originally Posted by Bacon

Wow this is still going? Well you want to know why no one can remotely agree with you on so many levels? It's because your opening statements and everyone that followed is based on this non nonsensical string of opinions based on nothing.

Yes we get it, you love your country.

All my statements are true. Anyone who denies it are either a nationalist/racist or just an idiot.

Originally Posted by HeavenShocking LunarFang7

Before I post I would just like to say that my response is going to disagree with your points, but simply point out certain facts about the American and Russian forces that weren't pointed out.

For Egypt:

Spoiler:

You state that they have more experience in desert warfare, which is true. But you failed to realize that Russian and American armed forces have experienced desert warfare in the past/present, and strongly train it to their Armies today. Though it isn't close to as good as the Egyptians, they still have experience with it, and can use it quiet well.

One vehicle you (probably) forgot about for American vehicles: The M1A1 Abrams. The tank is considered the best tank ever constructed by man. It's been tested on the field with results that far surpass any other tank recorded. It's main canon can destroy others within the first few shots. It also has incredible range for a tank.
Another one is the Humvee. With most able to reach the speeds of any other regular car, it also has great protection and firepower. Built with regular armor able to resist most weapons like RPG's, it also has Kevlar inside and out. Plus bullet-proof glass, it's safety is among the best for it's class. Some Humvee are attached with standard Light Machine Guns, like the M249 SAW and the M60, both can rip any person in half, and can pierce armor and walls. But the majority carry a 50. Caliber Machine Gun, which can pierce almost to all armor, including tanks with enough shots into it, and can go through any surface an enemy might be hiding behind. It sends the enemy into panic when being shot at.

As for tactical bombing, the Russian and American air power is huge. They have bombers that can hold thousands of tons of bombs, some are impossible to detect, and can also reach speeds of any other aircraft.

For India:

Spoiler:

AA Tanks are great, but they lack in protection for the crew inside, and rarely every see any enemy besides aircraft's. So in early stages of war, these tanks are useful, but can be easily taken out but ground troops and aircraft's alike.

The use of Nukes is against the Rules of War. Any country who uses Nukes against another country, is automatically attacked by the UN, and most of the world countries.

The US forces are trained in Tiquando, Karate, etc. etc. And that's the US alone. For all you and I know, the Russian military could be trained be able to take down anything in its path.

For Japan:

Spoiler:

Everything is basically true except for public support; The Russian public basically never publicly disagrees with it's choices. Resistant armor; Russians and Americans have the strongest armor around. And soldier training; In the American Armed Forces, if you're not the best around at what you do, you're not on the front lines.

For Sweden:

Spoiler:

I'm not going to say anything, because I don't want you to explode on me, and threaten to have Swedish spies kill me.

Just my opinion.

For Egypt: Do not underestimate desert warfare. Fighting in your home territory is a skill that few so-called "powerful" nations has.

For India: The Gurkha are the best warriors in the world for unarmed combat = proven fact during a military contest in 2006.

For Japan: Japanese people follows a faith of extreme nationalism and anyone would be willing to die for their country. Japan would be impossible to occupy, because every single citizen would rebel immediately. Also, you are wrong in the armor section. The Japanese Type 90 is the best in the world = proven statement on 4 documentaries and 2 military magazines.

For Sweden: All facts were proven, so if you try to deny anything of them it just proves that you have little education in this matter.

[billguy73]

I must say its a very informative forum thanks a lot!

[Ninja of Cao]

Originally Posted by billguy73

I must say its a very informative forum thanks a lot!

Thank you.

[Maikeru D. Shinigami]

I actually can't really argue against any of the points made. I mean, the four nations depicted are impressive. And I'm not really one to say that the country I'm raised in is necessarily superior in quality than all others. We are superior in quantity of soldiers to most though. That said, I can't really argue for this stuff either, as I can't certainly call it facts without a form of competition, and I really hate war, so I'd rather just not know.

I do know this much though, considering a place like Egypt is centered in a desert pretty much, they aren't exactly going to be a walk in the park in the desert. When it comes down to it, there are probably countries who have better quality in a certain field than America or Russia. But, it might not make up for the quantity. It would also be hard to figure out quality without an even battle. For instance, if I place 5000 mice in a maze and 500 of them are wearing blue shirts, and the others are wearing green, it is more likely that a green shirt mouse will be first to find the cheese.

I can't really argue against how strong another country is though. I do know one thing though, there's a lot of talented people over in at least Japan and China. I've seen some of those guys on Ninja Warrior, and they are really good at that stuff. Whereas, US Olympic Gold Medalists have fallen out in around round 1 or 2 at times.

[Ninja of Cao]

Originally Posted by Maikeru Shinigami

I actually can't really argue against any of the points made. I mean, the four nations depicted are impressive. And I'm not really one to say that the country I'm raised in is necessarily superior in quality than all others. We are superior in quantity of soldiers to most though. That said, I can't really argue for this stuff either, as I can't certainly call it facts without a form of competition, and I really hate war, so I'd rather just not know.

I do know this much though, considering a place like Egypt is centered in a desert pretty much, they aren't exactly going to be a walk in the park in the desert. When it comes down to it, there are probably countries who have better quality in a certain field than America or Russia. But, it might not make up for the quantity. It would also be hard to figure out quality without an even battle. For instance, if I place 5000 mice in a maze and 500 of them are wearing blue shirts, and the others are wearing green, it is more likely that a green shirt mouse will be first to find the cheese.

I can't really argue against how strong another country is though. I do know one thing though, there's a lot of talented people over in at least Japan and China. I've seen some of those guys on Ninja Warrior, and they are really good at that stuff. Whereas, US Olympic Gold Medalists have fallen out in around round 1 or 2 at times.

USA is becoming weaker and it won't stop. China will dominate the 21st century, that's for certain. They have an army that is better than USA in both quality and quantity, plus they are better trained and have a stronger willpower.

[AgentShayd]

Again Tao.... You are over confident. And as for the US Navy you are wrong on every end. I am a child of a US Navy Officer... All I am gonna say is the only reason you are putting the USA down is because you have plainly stated you dislike our government, and want to invade our country and "free" our people. I hate to tell you this, but your dream is just that, a dream. Even if you made it in here, the American ppl will die before they let someone like you force your ideals on us. You say it is helping us and things like that. But your views are YOURS not everyone else. That my friend is wrong. You can not force people to believe in what you do, and if you try, you are no better then a coward terrorist whom hides behind a false ideal.

[Maikeru D. Shinigami]

Originally Posted by Ninja of Tao

USA is becoming weaker and it won't stop. China will dominate the 21st century, that's for certain. They have an army that is better than USA in both quality and quantity, plus they are better trained and have a stronger willpower.

Actually, you can't call the future certain. Nothing to come is a certain, I know that much. If the future was certain, the underdogs wouldn't be able to beat favorites. If the future was certain, David wouldn't have beaten Goliath. The only certainty is the past as the past has already happened. Though to state specifics in the past as a certainty, is not always certain.

Not saying that China isn't better than America in quality or quantity, as they are extremely skilled, in general. However, it's not a certainty that they are. That said, I don't find China to be very dangerous. They don't seem like the type to really jump into a battle without a good reason. If they ever do jump into a battle though, they have the potential to be stronger than anyone.

[Ninja of Cao]

Originally Posted by AgentShayd

Again Tao.... You are over confident. And as for the US Navy you are wrong on every end. I am a child of a US Navy Officer... All I am gonna say is the only reason you are putting the USA down is because you have plainly stated you dislike our government, and want to invade our country and "free" our people. I hate to tell you this, but your dream is just that, a dream. Even if you made it in here, the American ppl will die before they let someone like you force your ideals on us. You say it is helping us and things like that. But your views are YOURS not everyone else. That my friend is wrong. You can not force people to believe in what you do, and if you try, you are no better then a coward terrorist whom hides behind a false ideal.

So many misguided beliefs you say at once. It makes me sad.

Originally Posted by Maikeru Shinigami

Actually, you can't call the future certain. Nothing to come is a certain, I know that much. If the future was certain, the underdogs wouldn't be able to beat favorites. If the future was certain, David wouldn't have beaten Goliath. The only certainty is the past as the past has already happened. Though to state specifics in the past as a certainty, is not always certain.

Not saying that China isn't better than America in quality or quantity, as they are extremely skilled, in general. However, it's not a certainty that they are. That said, I don't find China to be very dangerous. They don't seem like the type to really jump into a battle without a good reason. If they ever do jump into a battle though, they have the potential to be stronger than anyone.

Indeed, China is the most powerful country in the world. Or soon will be.

[Maikeru D. Shinigami]

I actually can't argue against China being the strongest. It is quite possible that they are. I know I wouldn't want them on my bad side.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Ninja of Tao

Actually, Japan has the best equipped navy in the world. And US investments are on upkeeping their current army, while peaceful nations instead invest to develop better equipment rather than being old-fashioned. Because of this indeniable fact, USA is weak in quality.

Sweden has the best military training in Europe, giving our regular field troops twice as good skills as the best US Marines.

Incorrect Japanese naval force have vastly deteriorated since WW II and even more so since the lost decade. Japan's economy has been in the crapper going on two decades. You can develop anything with that. Japan has a navy, but that is all that can be said.
Being at peace makes nation grow slack, fat and decrepitude. No training can replace actual combat that has been shown throughout military history. Just look at your list here. Three of the four fight wars either abroad or in their own country, and Japan has to be wary of China.

The US does actually not only do upkeep. For example, replacing F-16 with the F-22. Or developing missile defense such as the Aegis project, which by the way Japan uses. If Japan's military technology is so great, why are they using a US developed system? And again you fail to realize how much more money the US spends on its military compared to the pittance other countries with few exceptions do.

You say China will become the top military power in the 21 century. That is likely incorrect. While its economy will at one point the largest this century, it's military might will not. Of course, China will always have the numbers advantage, excepting perhaps India, their military equipment is limited by the fact of the 100's of millions of poor that the China needs to take care of. Not to mention, China is likely to be beset ethnic and class strife as the expansion of it's economy slows. Finally, the graying of China will leave with young citizens to staff it's army and leave it taking care of its old.