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Old 02-10-2011, 06:10 AM   #1
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Default Forgotten military powers

"Peasant dogs bark loudly - wolves hunt in silence."

In this thread I shall present four military powers in the world that are seemingly forgotten and cast in the shadow of USA and Russia.

At the bottom in each section, some areas the country are superior to USA and Russia in are presented. All information is proven by facts from several reliable sources, and any posts denying those facts is either nationalism/racism or simply lack of information. Respect all countries listed and do not post anything speaking against them.

And always remember; every single nation has an army - but all don't brag about it.

Egypt - The strongest of the Middle East:
Spoiler:


The vehicle above is the Egyptian Infantry Fighting Vehicle, EIFV, which is equipped with a 25mm chain gun - an armor-piercing cannon with the firing rate of a normal machine gun. This equipment allows it to combat tanks thrice its own size and makes it count like the world's best light armored vehicle.

It is many westerners - particularly Americans - who believe the Middle East to be weak. That is a crucial mistake. For the once great empire of Egypt now counts as one of the world's most effective military mights for open field battles, with Infantry Fighting Vehicles on the ground and tactical bombers in the air. The recent outbreak of civil disorder would not allow the military power to be weakened, and Egypt still hold an army comparable to countries such as Great Britain and Israel.


Egypt has no indigenous aircraft, but the French-manufactured Dassault Mirage 2000 gives any foreign power a match.

The air space is dominated by French-manufactured planes of the Dassault class - mostly the Mirage but also the new 2000. Both are tactical bombers able to carry nukes and host a heavy arsenal of weapons capable of wiping out bases at the size of towns. As if that wasn't enough, Egypt also have a very large percent of the population in the army, compared to several more warlike nations.

Egypt is superior compared to the US and Russian armies in...
...desert fighting and guerrilla warfare.
...Infantry Fighting Vehicles.
...tactical bombing ability.


India - Nukes isn't all that counts:
Spoiler:


The Arjun tank can shoot down jet fighters with its main cannon.

What do you think when you hear "Indian army"? Do you think of a barely dressed peasant with a WWII rifle and a conical hat? Well, let me tell you that India has an army that is more than equal to that of more recognized nuke powers such as North Korea and France. It all started with the Gurkha, that could in short terms be called "Indian knights". They were eltie soldiers that had mastered ancient martial arts and used the best weapons available - though they were a little strange-looking in European eyes. Time passed and eventually the title of Gurkha was used once more - as a modern soldier who have mastered unarmed fighting as well as excellent marksmanship. The Gurkhas today are mainly recognized by the kukri - a large knife able to behead three men with one strike. Of course, this is not the preferred way of Indian fighting. Long-distance marksmanship is an excellence for the Gurkha.



The Pinaka MBRL is a truly superior rocket launcher, with projectiles that can devastate entire cities - plus ability to launch nukes.

The only part of the Indian army that is famous are the nukes - an unfair situation. On the picture above, one of the world's most effective Multi-Barreled Rocket Launchers are shown. It's called Pinaka and are indigenious to India.

The Indian army is superior compared to the US and Russian armies in...
...Anti-aircraft equipped tanks.
...Nuke-armed land vehicles.
...Unarmed fighting skill.

Japan - The perfect military:
Spoiler:


Above is the Type 90 Kyu-Maru - the world's best tank on an unchallenged level. No other tanks nor rocket launchers is able to scratch it, and the gun can erase concrete forts.

The Japanese have an unfair reputation of being weak, crazed warriors charging with swords and bayonets against machine guns. Let me tell you that WWII was a long time ago. Today, Japan have utilized the world's most sophisticated technology to surpass the limits USA put. The Japanese Self-Defense Force have the world's best tanks, one of the world's best aircraft, the second best navy and most importantly - courage. A Japanese soldier simply cannot retreat, he is immune to fear and will fight to the very end. While the soldiers are perfect, the technology superior, and the army numerous, Japan has no notable weaknesses. It is simply a perfect military power.

The Mitsubishi F-2 is the world's most heavily armed plane and is expected to wipe out huge opposing armies without being inflicted any own casualties.

Though USA and UN forbid Japan to have an offensive army after the end of WWII, there was already-written international laws saying that every country has the right to a defensive force to protect their own lands. Japan took advantage of this and built up their "self-defense force" to be one of the world's top 5 armies, more than equal to that of USA.

Japan is superior compared to the US and Russian armies in...
...aircraft armament.
...anything regarding technology.
...public support.
...resistant armor.
...science of new superweapons, apart from nukes.
...soldier training.


Sweden - You can't fight what you can't see:
Spoiler:


The Stridsvagn 122 (above left) is the world's second best main battle tank. It has inpenetrable armor and superior firepower. The Stridsfordon 90 (above right) is unchallenged as the world's best IFV and APC. It can avoid detection both from radar, thermal sensors, and infrared scans.

The Swedish army had its golden age between the 17th and 18th centuries, being recognized as "undefeatable" until the Battle of Poltava in 1709. The last actual war they were in was the Napoleonic war and the Norwegian-Swedish war in the early 1800's, where Swedish weapons and tactics were outdated. Still, they fought with great effect but then Sweden became a peaceful nation, claiming neutrality. However, they silently built up their military might until they had weapons so powerful that they are today feared by the giant of Russia.

The JAS 39 Gripen pictured above, is the main source of Swedish military power. It is among the world's best planes, and due to advanced electronic countermeasures technology, not even USA would have a chance to shoot it down once it was in the air. Homing missiles cannot see it, and its excellent speed and agility makes it superior in air-to-air fighting.

Another part of the Swedish defense that plays a high role is their stealth technology, which is the best in the world. They have been able to mount stealth ability on both land vehicles and surfaced naval vessels - an ability few superpowers have been able to create.

Sweden is superior compared to the US and Russian armies in...
...Defensive aircraft equipment.
...Land vehicle stealth technology.
...Naval vessel stealth technology.
...Submarine stealth technology.

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Old 02-10-2011, 06:44 AM   #2
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

Sweden the Solid Snake among World's Military.
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Old 02-10-2011, 06:46 AM   #3
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

Old and decrepit?
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Old 02-10-2011, 06:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi View Post
Sweden the Solid Snake among World's Military.
Is that a good thing? I'm not familiar with that kind of expressions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooster View Post
Old and decrepit?
These four countries are highly underestimated, they have very powerful armies. The meaning of this thread is to tell people the truth, that even small countries can be powerful.
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Old 02-10-2011, 06:51 AM   #5
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

Well at least two of the four rely on the US for military training, so I think that answers that question.

Japan has no military might since WW II; they are a pacifist state.
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Old 02-10-2011, 06:53 AM   #6
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

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Japan has no military might since WW II; they are a pacifist state.
Don't underestimate the SDF
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Old 02-10-2011, 06:55 AM   #7
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooster View Post
Well at least two of the four rely on the US for military training, so I think that answers that question.

Japan has no military might since WW II; they are a pacifist state.
Which ones? Egypt and India hates USA, Japan despises anything of Western nations, and Sweden uses only their own tactics and weapons.

Correction: Japan has no offensive military might. Though, they have the most technological self-defense force in the world.
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:03 AM   #8
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toma RNK View Post
Don't underestimate the SDF
/Reads article
"Due to the constitutional debate concerning the Forces' status, any attempt at increasing the Forces' capabilities and budget tends to be controversial. Thus the JSDF's capabilities are mainly defensive, with only limited overseas capabilities. The JSDF lacks long range offensive capabilities such as long-range surface-to-surface missiles, marines, amphibious units, and large caches of ammunition." Also, 3% budget and 50% spent on personnel.

In other words, not much to worry about for anyone that attacks outside of pure soldiers only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja of Tao View Post
Which ones? Egypt and India hates USA, Japan despises anything of Western nations, and Sweden uses only their own tactics and weapons.

Correction: Japan has no offensive military might. Though, they have the most technological self-defense force in the world.
Egypt, as in Mubarak, does not hate the US. The US trains their troops.
India military spends all it's time fight ethnic strife and doing a poor job of it as well.

They do not. You must spend money for that. Japan spends very little on any military matters. See above.
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:10 AM   #9
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooster View Post
/Reads article
"Due to the constitutional debate concerning the Forces' status, any attempt at increasing the Forces' capabilities and budget tends to be controversial. Thus the JSDF's capabilities are mainly defensive, with only limited overseas capabilities. The JSDF lacks long range offensive capabilities such as long-range surface-to-surface missiles, marines, amphibious units, and large caches of ammunition." Also, 3% budget and 50% spent on personnel.

In other words, not much to worry about for anyone that attacks outside of pure soldiers only.


Egypt, as in Mubarak, does not hate the US. The US trains their troops.
India military spends all it's time fight ethnic strife and doing a poor job of it as well.

They do not. You must spend money for that. Japan spends very little on any military matters. See above.
Anyone can edit wikipedia, and I hardly think that explosives-interested teenagers knows much of secret weapon projects. Rule #1 of using the Internet correctly: Never trust wikipedia when it comes to reading about countries, armies or history.

All Muslims hate USA, because USA blames all followers of Islam for what less than 500 fanatics did many years ago.
Indians have a very well-trained army and are not dependent on any foreign nation.

And, as mentioned above, how do you know anything on wikipedia is true? Do you think that the Japanese government would tell anyone if they developed a superweapon that could disable electronics or melt armor?
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:46 AM   #10
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

Quote:
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India military spends all it's time fight ethnic strife and doing a poor job of it as well.
And your sources are?
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:39 AM   #11
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja of Tao View Post
Anyone can edit wikipedia, and I hardly think that explosives-interested teenagers knows much of secret weapon projects. Rule #1 of using the Internet correctly: Never trust wikipedia when it comes to reading about countries, armies or history.

All Muslims hate USA, because USA blames all followers of Islam for what less than 500 fanatics did many years ago.
Indians have a very well-trained army and are not dependent on any foreign nation.

And, as mentioned above, how do you know anything on wikipedia is true? Do you think that the Japanese government would tell anyone if they developed a superweapon that could disable electronics or melt armor?
Wikipedia is not a reliable source, but that doesn't mean it isn't ever right - even tabloids occasionally hit paydirt, and those rags are the silliest things ever.

Not all Moslems hate the USA. Also, apples to oranges, dear friend? You're saying all professed Muslims hate a country (presumably in regards to government affairs, namely State and Defense oriented policies?), then saying the same in reverse. How does a people compare to a government? And since plenty of Americans are also Muslims, why are they hating themselves?

The Japanese would if they felt threatened. Their counter-threat could be enough to halt any aggressors in their tracks. More importantly, however, is how this argument even applies. If you feel Japan's power is dependent upon a secret superweapon neither you nor your detractors are even aware of, how can you defend their position as an underestimated world power? Too many paradoxes and traps, son. Ya needs to reform your post some.

Quote:
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And your sources are?
Inappropriate response. OP never provided much in the way of sources. In fact, he provided none. Still, what Wooster and Toma present is fairly common knowledge amongst military and political enthusiasts. A random glossing of research on your part can easily confirm this.
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:22 AM   #12
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

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Originally Posted by Kreegah! View Post
Wikipedia is not a reliable source, but that doesn't mean it isn't ever right - even tabloids occasionally hit paydirt, and those rags are the silliest things ever.

Not all Moslems hate the USA. Also, apples to oranges, dear friend? You're saying all professed Muslims hate a country (presumably in regards to government affairs, namely State and Defense oriented policies?), then saying the same in reverse. How does a people compare to a government? And since plenty of Americans are also Muslims, why are they hating themselves?

The Japanese would if they felt threatened. Their counter-threat could be enough to halt any aggressors in their tracks. More importantly, however, is how this argument even applies. If you feel Japan's power is dependent upon a secret superweapon neither you nor your detractors are even aware of, how can you defend their position as an underestimated world power? Too many paradoxes and traps, son. Ya needs to reform your post some.



Inappropriate response. OP never provided much in the way of sources. In fact, he provided none. Still, what Wooster and Toma present is fairly common knowledge amongst military and political enthusiasts. A random glossing of research on your part can easily confirm this.
Not all Muslim people hates USA, but all Muslim governments does. So do 72% of the world - with right.

Japan does not reveal half of their army on Wikipedia. More reliable sources can come from one who actually has Japanese relatives working in the military.
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:31 AM   #13
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

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Originally Posted by Kreegah! View Post
Inappropriate response.
Huh..?

Quote:
OP never provided much in the way of sources. In fact, he provided none.
Do you see me quoting/questioning the OP anywhere in my post?

Quote:
Still, what Wooster and Toma present is fairly common knowledge amongst military and political enthusiasts. A random glossing of research on your part can easily confirm this.
That is the reason why I aksed for his sources regarding a particular point that, being an Indian myself, I found quite amusing.
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:37 AM   #14
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

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Not all Muslim people hates USA, but all Muslim governments does. So do 72% of the world - with right.

Japan does not reveal half of their army on Wikipedia. More reliable sources can come from one who actually has Japanese relatives working in the military.


they are not" Muslim governments " they are terrorists for their country but I think Saudi Arabia loves USA

Oooh looks like you people think thats all ... A country who keep the military plans as secret as they can are winners
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:54 AM   #15
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

This seems like a headache in the making. -.-
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12:11 PM So you enter the debate with full knowledge that you know nothing of worth on the subject, and then state you will not make an effort to learn. Way to be poster-boy for blight of the forum. Leave discussions of intelligence to those that have it.

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Old 02-10-2011, 09:58 AM   #16
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

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Originally Posted by Ninja of Tao View Post
Anyone can edit wikipedia, and I hardly think that explosives-interested teenagers knows much of secret weapon projects. Rule #1 of using the Internet correctly: Never trust wikipedia when it comes to reading about countries, armies or history.

All Muslims hate USA, because USA blames all followers of Islam for what less than 500 fanatics did many years ago.
Indians have a very well-trained army and are not dependent on any foreign nation.

And, as mentioned above, how do you know anything on wikipedia is true? Do you think that the Japanese government would tell anyone if they developed a superweapon that could disable electronics or melt armor?
Biggest and most appallingly incorrect generalization. Not all Muslims hate America, just like not all of Americans blame Islam.
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:05 AM   #17
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

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Originally Posted by Ninja of Tao View Post
Anyone can edit wikipedia, and I hardly think that explosives-interested teenagers knows much of secret weapon projects. Rule #1 of using the Internet correctly: Never trust wikipedia when it comes to reading about countries, armies or history.

All Muslims hate USA, because USA blames all followers of Islam for what less than 500 fanatics did many years ago.
Indians have a very well-trained army and are not dependent on any foreign nation.

And, as mentioned above, how do you know anything on wikipedia is true? Do you think that the Japanese government would tell anyone if they developed a superweapon that could disable electronics or melt armor?
You can ,but there are stick up editors that will smash any standard nowadays.
Ahh, the freewheeling days of the past. *sigh*

Besides Toma cited it. All this info is backed up by the Economist.

Nope. Besides not a Egyptians are Muslims; there is also all of secularists. The poor would be more likely to practice Islam, but they are unimportant except for fanatics like the Muslim Brotherhood; however, they are not in power are they?

Indian has an army, but not much else. Most of their time is spent staring into Pakistan or killing disgruntled citizens.

Japanese tell their citizens how much they spent. You can have super secret weapons on a shoe string budget.
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:12 AM   #18
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

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Indian has an army, but not much else. Most of their time is spent staring into Pakistan or killing disgruntled citizens.
Use proper sources, please. When you make such statments without any proof then it simply makes you look like a you-know-what..
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:13 AM   #19
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

Sweden's airforce is not that strong though.. Sure we have a good airforce but a american F-5 would take down the JAS 39-Gripen like a fly.

However the F-5 is extremely overpriced compared to a Jas.

The F-5 is superior in all ways though. So no. Sweden does not have a strong force. Sure we have decent equipment but 100 Jas can't cut it against any other airforce more or less...
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:14 AM   #20
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Default Re: Forgotten military powers - Small but still strong

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Use proper sources, please. When you make such statments without any proof then it simply makes you look like a you-know-what..
Any issue of the Economist. Poor Bangladeshi teenager.

A know-it-all?
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