Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

[jjjs]

any way sakura has never been stated as "fast" been hyped as "fast" or has actually shown speed in an actual fight when she punched sai it was not supposed to be a fight but a "funny " moment and the caterpillar thing is irrelevant because the same thing happens all the time for example when konohamaru stomped naraka or when kakashi saved iruka against pein or sai against zabuza and nobody mentions this as a speed feat

[Vivi]

Originally Posted by Yori

Anyway I say Jirobo > Sakura.

Neji w/ Byakugan couldn't keep track of Jirobo.

Page 5 and 6 of Chapter 188.
Kiba's smell was what gave him away even Neji was surprised.

In terms of Strength he should at least be close to Sakura's in CS 2 as he lifted up Boss Sized Chouji with one hand effortlessly and throwing him in the air.
SM Naruto needed 2 for his Rhino Feat.

In terms of Durabilty he withstood 2nd Pill Boss Chouji trampling on him without having any signs of injuries.

Jirobo is underrated massively.

[jjjs]

i still insist on zabuza being put above the other swordsmen and asuma and hidan
kakashi belongs also atleast above onoki he should be around itachi or jiraya

[Vivi]

Originally Posted by jjjs

kakashi belongs also atleast above onoki he should be around itachi or jiraya

We already know Itachi trolling>Kakashi.

And the only was for Kakashi to defeat Jiraya is if Kamui can hit before the Summon Spam begins.
Apart from that Ma and Pa can reverse Summon Naruto.

[jjjs]

well he could at least beat onoki and kisame and jiraya can not counter kamui

[Vivi]

Originally Posted by jjjs

well he could at least beat onoki and kisame and jiraya can not counter kamui

Yomi Numa before Kakashi activates his MS and removes the headband.

Perhaps Toton could prevent it as well.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Originally Posted by jjjs

well he could at least beat onoki and kisame and jiraya can not counter kamui

Jiraiya would have him in Frog Song before he activated Kamui

[jjjs]

he needs to summon the 2 frogs then go sm that takes like 30 minutes , no seriously kakashi stomps onoki

[Shikamaru Nara]

Prep is provided.

[Lady Tsunade]

Alright Kuro P: Oh but, I don't mind using DB stats for things like Genjutsu which characters have never actually shown. They were written by Kishimoto after all. They only become a problem whenever you're trying to compare things like speed. Shizune is noted to be faster than PTS Sasuke according the second DB, for example. Even though PTS Sasuke outmanoeuvred Gaaras sand, iirc. Though, I think Sakuras DB speed stat matches quite well with the speed feats she's shown. Above average. Of course, it is much safer and accurate to go by feats.

@jj. Sakura travelled a significant distance instantly. Konohamaru didn't. I don't recall the page when Kakashi saves Iruka but its not brought up because Kakashi has shown much much better speed feats than that. Same with Zabuza. Sakura doesn't need to show speed in fights to be able to use it in battle, especially when they're all battle orientated ones.

Oh and, what you say is true Vivi, and no CS2 Jirobos strength should far exceed Sakuras. I never really noticed he was that fast. So I have no problem with moving him up a bit C:

[Vivi]

Originally Posted by jjjs

he needs to summon the 2 frogs then go sm that takes like 30 minutes ,

Certainly didn't take 30 minutes when fighting Pain.
You know that as well as I do.

[iDooom]

Originally Posted by jjjs

i still insist on zabuza being put above the other swordsmen and asuma and hidan
kakashi belongs also atleast above onoki he should be around itachi or jiraya

So your saying that Kakashi is better than Minato, A, Danzo, Onoki and Sasuke? No way. In shippuden Kakashi runs out of chakra in almost half his fights and he isn't even that good.

[Kazumi Saitama]

LT, I would like chapters of all of Sakura's speed feats, if you do not mind.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Her best ones would be during the Sasori fight.

It's around ch. 270-275 where she has some decent feats.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Why, thank you my good sir.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Why, you're welcome my good lady.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

Good point. Though, for all we know those weapons could've been released in 3's over a period of time. After all, panels don't exactly scale time accurately. As Sakura wakes up Tenten and Temari are already half way through their match. You can't really make assumptions. Also, you're assuming Tenten is more accurate, can summon more weapons etc. purely from hype. And dismissing any hype Sakura has. Such being taught by a Sannin, an evasive master? One of the most skilled shinobi Konoha has ever produced? And being praised constantly for her skill by a War Veteran and Councilor - Chiyo. I should also add Sakura counters the Iron Sand blocks entirely by herself, Chiyo even states this. In fact, the only time Chiyo helps her with Iron Sand is when three spikes are fired at her, and Chiyos puppets jump to protect Sakura. Sakura was taught by a taijutsu master, so assuming she's not at good at it is really stupid.

The assumption could go either way. I can not deny your claim nor can you deny mine. I suppose Tenten needs more feats to accurately speculate the use of her scrolls. Nonetheless, we know Tenten can seal and summon a lot of weapons. The assumption of Tenten being more accurate is more true than false. PTS Tenten was considered to have the best accuracy in the entire Hidden Leaf village. So, to assume her accuracy, weapon range and weapon variety has not improved after two and a half years seem illogical, considering the enhanced techniques and abilities we have witnessed from the other eight rookies. Chapter 265: Page 5 displays a decent feat of Tenten and her scroll. I am not dismissing any hype Sakura may have, but she does not possess much due to being a main character. What technique could Sakura possibly be hiding from viewers when she is shown almost constantly? Do you see where I am going. Tenten, however is not shown constantly and could be hiding techniques from the viewers off panel. Sakura has received praise for being taught by Tsunade, so adding that into debates is virtually pointless since her abilities exhibit this. That is not hype. Hype is educated speculations, we as debaters give characters that have not shown or displayed the extent of an ability and or technique. Medical Ninja are taught to evade, but that does not mean Sakura can evade every attack thrown at her. Hell, Naruto and Sasuke far exceeds Sakura in reaction, movement and attack speed, yet they still can not evade every attack thrown at them. What makes Sakura any different? I do not remember Chiyo constantly praising Sakura, but I do remember her battle with Sasori.

Summarization:
I am mentioning attacks in which Sakura demonstrated some type of speed feat.

During the battle, Sasori used World Order and Sakura could not react. Granny Chiyo used chakra strings to aid her and Sakura still got cut up.
Note: Anything before this was purely Granny Chiyo. Sakura did little to nothing except provide monstrous strength.

The next attack, Sasori released his cable and attempted to strike Sakura. Sakura barely reacted and ended up getting cut, again.

Moving on, after Chiyo and Sasori summoned their puppets, Sakura barely fought. I saw her punch a puppet before almost getting sliced and dice by another puppet until Chiyo saved her ass, again.

She then threw that chakra sealing monster thing at Sasori, sealing him.
So far, I have seen no impressive speed feats.

Sakura gets stabbed by Sasori after rushing toward Granny Chiyo who was approximately a few meters away.

Granny Chiyo makes the finishing blow.

The End.
Granny Chiyo is badass.

Overview:

Sakura exhibited decent speed feats throughout that battle, nothing impressive. Subsonic at best. No way in hell she moves at the speed of sound. Chiyo did most of the work. Those puppets were moving faster than Sakura. Furthermore, Sakura reacted to little Iron Sand attacks. Chiyo saved her ass soooooo many times.

To Name Some:

• Iron Sand Bullets
• Iron Sand Spikes
• World Order

So, what speed feats are you talking about because I saw absolutely none and I just read like twenty damn chapters, while taking notes.

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

Shunshin-like speed. Yes. Look at when she punches Sai during the Sasuke and Sai Arc, its extremely quick. Her fist is barely seeable. And when she solos the giant caterpillar she appears out of nowhere in front of the caterpillar, punches it and kills it no more than a panel/a few moments. I should also add her shunshin has a very large distance, so it should be quite doable to travel even wide distances instantly. Why would she need to move at sound speed? Doki don't move at sound speed and nor does Tayuya. Their attacks can all be dodged and they can all be One Shotted, and like I said. Sakura has an exellent talent for genjutsu, even being able to dispel ones only Jonin level ninja are able to. Like Kakashi, Asuma, Gai, Kurenai, Aoba etc. so dispelling Tayuyas should be doable. One way or another. Essentially meaning Tayuya has no form of hurting her. Also taking hype on board, Sakura would easily beat Tayuya.The punch? How was that not impressive? It was close range yeh, but so what? So are the majority of A's attacks which are extremely quick, does that make them any less impressive? The punch was still very fast. And Sakura was obviously nearby to see the giant caterpillar attacking the little girl, yet in the area around the giant caterpillar, which is rather large I should add, Sakura is nowhere to be seen until she has solo'd the beast. Look it up yourself, its chapter 412 I think. Impressive. At least more impressive than firing a few tools which move at slower speeds and are easily seen.

And, I said ten feet. Damn, I exaggerated. Sai was almost directly in front of Sakura when she punched him. She punched him pretty fast, but as I stated earlier, Sai was caught off guard when Sakura sucker punched him. She did minimum damage and only knocked him a few feet, so she did not use her superhuman strength, which usually slows her punches down. And that punch was not shunshin speed. You are either overestimating Sakura or underestimating Shunshin no Jutsu. Shunshin no Jutsu is a high-speed moving technique that allows the user to move at untraceable speeds. When has Sakura ever demonstrated such speed? If Sakura was no where around, how would she have known the Centipede was about to attack that little girl? Therefore, she had to have been close. She ran, jumped and punched. That was it. When has Sakura been shown to use Shunshin no Jutsu? Either, I missed this chapter or have completely forgot. Shunshin no Jutsu moves faster than sound. Apparently, that sleeping Genjutsu does not automatically work because Sakura, Kakashi and Gai noticed people falling asleep before it affected them, giving them ample time to dispel it before it knocked them out. Shikamaru apparently realized this too. Nonetheless, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say Sakura has relatively good Genjutsu Resistance. Even so, when Shikamaru battled Tayuya, he only dispelled her Genjutsu by breaking his finger via Shadow Possession. The Doki would not need to move at the speed of sound to hit Sakura. Tayuya plays a flute and what does a flute release? Sound. As stated earlier, the Doki apparently moves at reasonable speeds considering they react to music notes. How would Sakura get close to Tayuya? A is immensely strong, fast and incorporates lightning to amplify his attacks and defense. Sakura can not compare. Yes, ninja tools can be seen, but just because you can see them does not mean you can dodge or even react to all of them. Sakura is not Neji.

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

And whats all this rubbish about Tsunade? Tsunade is fast. As you'll see when she covers a very large distance during the Invasion of Pein while in a near-comatose state. She is also sitting down, and her ANBU [who are known for their extremely acute senses] fails to notice her absence until she lands onto ground in the distance. We also fail to see her move in the few panels which are zoomed out. We may not see her get up and move from point A to point B on panel but the fact so many high level ninja around her failed to notice her move at all notes how fast she moved, and the fact she did so in such a poor state is even more impressive. Tsunades reaction speed is average, yes. Her movement speed is actually very high, as we've seen from that shunshin she did. And Sakuras long range shunshin during the Sai and Sasuke Arc mirrors that. Her reaction speed is enough to dodge attacks from about 5 or 6 puppets coming at her in several directions, and the puppets aren't notably slow either. [Sakura]

All shinobi are fast, but Sakura and Tsunade are low to mid speed tiers in the Narutoverse. Tsunade got blitzed by the Asura Path and would have died if Naruto did not intervene. Tsunade does not move that fast. She is fast, but all shinobi are. She could never blitz someone, so her speed is not really an issue. Tsunade has never demonstrated a Shunshin. You are confusing Shunshin no Jutsu with running speed and they are not the same. Yeah, that was a pretty decent reaction speed feat for Sakura.

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

Finally, the genjutsu Sakura dispelled was only dispelled by Jonin level ninja like Kakashi, Gai and other examples I gave above. Sakura was the only one able to dispel it, along with Shikamaru - who is given a 3 in genjutsu at the time. We have no knowledge on Shikamarus genjutsu skill otherwise, so going by this DB stat should be accurate, considering it was written by Kishimoto. Sakura also dispels the genjutsu Naruto is put under by Itachi, and to assume its not high level is idiotic. So yes, its safe to assume her genjutsu resistance is very high. She may not have ever used a genjutsu, but the fact she can dispel it shows she is knowledgable on it.

Nonetheless, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say Sakura has relatively good Genjutsu Resistance. Even so, when Shikamaru battled Tayuya, he only dispelled her Genjutsu by breaking his finger via Shadow Possession.

This. Sakura and Chiyo dispelled the Genjutsu Itachi casted on Naruto. Sakura did not do it alone. Dusk Crow and Ephemeral are moderate Genjutsu. Additionally, Itachi was only using 30% of his power.

And BAM! P:

[Lady Tsunade]

Suresure bby. Also, I'd be inclined to say those are not all her best speed feats, Sage.
In order:

Chapter 273, page 8
Chapter 273, page 10 [Her best reaction feat]
Chapter 286 , page 8.
Chapter 290, page 15 - 16 [Notice the distance her shunshin has]
Chapter 296, page 6 [Not spectacular, but she moves a good distance by the time Yamato notices she starts running.]
Chapter 421, page 1-2 [Not so much good reaction. More about the distance she covered and how quickly she attacked]
Chapter 283 [Notice the large distance she jumps quickly, decent speed feat. She also sneaks up on Sasuke, if that contributes to anything.]

As you can see. She is fast. But obviously, just nowhere near the speed of Itachi, Sasuke, Kakashi etc. who are speedsters.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Sakura has moderate speed.

Moderate = Good

Good = Nothing to worry about

[Lady Tsunade]

Originally Posted by Kazumi Saitama

The assumption could go either way. I can not deny your claim nor can you deny mine. I suppose Tenten needs more feats to accurately speculate the use of her scrolls. Nonetheless, we know Tenten can seal and summon a lot of weapons. The assumption of Tenten being more accurate is more true than false. PTS Tenten was considered to have the best accuracy in the entire Hidden Leaf village. So, to assume her accuracy, weapon range and weapon variety has not improved after two and a half years seem illogical, considering the enhanced techniques and abilities we have witnessed from the other eight rookies. Chapter 265: Page 5 displays a decent feat of Tenten and her scroll. I am not dismissing any hype Sakura may have, but she does not possess much due to being a main character. What technique could Sakura possibly be hiding from viewers when she is shown almost constantly? Do you see where I am going. Tenten, however is not shown constantly and could be hiding techniques from the viewers off panel. Sakura has received praise for being taught by Tsunade, so adding that into debates is virtually pointless since her abilities exhibit this. That is not hype. Hype is educated speculations, we as debaters give characters that have not shown or displayed the extent of an ability and or technique. Medical Ninja are taught to evade, but that does not mean Sakura can evade every attack thrown at her. Hell, Naruto and Sasuke far exceeds Sakura in reaction, movement and attack speed, yet they still can not evade every attack thrown at them. What makes Sakura any different? I do not remember Chiyo constantly praising Sakura, but I do remember her battle with Sasori.

Summarization:
I am mentioning attacks in which Sakura demonstrated some type of speed feat.

During the battle, Sasori used World Order and Sakura could not react. Granny Chiyo used chakra strings to aid her and Sakura still got cut up.
Note: Anything before this was purely Granny Chiyo. Sakura did little to nothing except provide monstrous strength.

The next attack, Sasori released his cable and attempted to strike Sakura. Sakura barely reacted and ended up getting cut, again.

Moving on, after Chiyo and Sasori summoned their puppets, Sakura barely fought. I saw her punch a puppet before almost getting sliced and dice by another puppet until Chiyo saved her ass, again.

She then threw that chakra sealing monster thing at Sasori, sealing him.
So far, I have seen no impressive speed feats.

Sakura gets stabbed by Sasori after rushing toward Granny Chiyo who was approximately a few meters away.

Granny Chiyo makes the finishing blow.

The End.
Granny Chiyo is badass.

Overview:

Sakura exhibited decent speed feats throughout that battle, nothing impressive. Subsonic at best. No way in hell she moves at the speed of sound. Chiyo did most of the work. Those puppets were moving faster than Sakura. Furthermore, Sakura reacted to little Iron Sand attacks. Chiyo saved her ass soooooo many times.

To Name Some:

• Iron Sand Bullets
• Iron Sand Spikes
• World Order

So, what speed feats are you talking about because I saw absolutely none and I just read like twenty damn chapters, while taking notes.



And, I said ten feet. Damn, I exaggerated. Sai was almost directly in front of Sakura when she punched him. She punched him pretty fast, but as I stated earlier, Sai was caught off guard when Sakura sucker punched him. She did minimum damage and only knocked him a few feet, so she did not use her superhuman strength, which usually slows her punches down. And that punch was not shunshin speed. You are either overestimating Sakura or underestimating Shunshin no Jutsu. Shunshin no Jutsu is a high-speed moving technique that allows the user to move at untraceable speeds. When has Sakura ever demonstrated such speed? If Sakura was no where around, how would she have known the Centipede was about to attack that little girl? Therefore, she had to have been close. She ran, jumped and punched. That was it. When has Sakura been shown to use Shunshin no Jutsu? Either, I missed this chapter or have completely forgot. Shunshin no Jutsu moves faster than sound. Apparently, that sleeping Genjutsu does not automatically work because Sakura, Kakashi and Gai noticed people falling asleep before it affected them, giving them ample time to dispel it before it knocked them out. Shikamaru apparently realized this too. Nonetheless, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say Sakura has relatively good Genjutsu Resistance. Even so, when Shikamaru battled Tayuya, he only dispelled her Genjutsu by breaking his finger via Shadow Possession. The Doki would not need to move at the speed of sound to hit Sakura. Tayuya plays a flute and what does a flute release? Sound. As stated earlier, the Doki apparently moves at reasonable speeds considering they react to music notes. How would Sakura get close to Tayuya? A is immensely strong, fast and incorporates lightning to amplify his attacks and defense. Sakura can not compare. Yes, ninja tools can be seen, but just because you can see them does not mean you can dodge or even react to all of them. Sakura is not Neji.



All shinobi are fast, but Sakura and Tsunade are low to mid speed tiers in the Narutoverse. Tsunade got blitzed by the Asura Path and would have died if Naruto did not intervene. Tsunade does not move that fast. She is fast, but all shinobi are. She could never blitz someone, so her speed is not really an issue. Tsunade has never demonstrated a Shunshin. You are confusing Shunshin no Jutsu with running speed and they are not the same. Yeah, that was a pretty decent reaction speed feat for Sakura.





This. Sakura and Chiyo dispelled the Genjutsu Itachi casted on Naruto. Sakura did not do it alone. Dusk Crow and Ephemeral are moderate Genjutsu. Additionally, Itachi was only using 30% of his power.

And BAM! P:

Ugh. I wish you would have made this horrificly long post after reading the chapters I provided .__.

Anyway, yes. Tenten has all the hype you implicated. But Tenten also has never had any implications she can use anything but tools. Her taijutsu might be alright because she's taught by Gai but feats or even stated facts in the manga don't suggest this. Tsunade is said to be an evasive master. Her healing abilities, knowledge on seals, herbs and general knowledge on jutsu far exceeds Sakuras. For all we know, she could've passed those skills and knowledge onto Sakura, since the start of Shippuden which is when we last saw Sakura fight properly. And Sasuke and Naruto basicly are evasive experts from feats. If Tenten released like 300 tools at once maybe they couldn't dodge them all but theres nothing asides anime suggesting she can do so. More to the point, if Tenten was able to release so many tools at once I believe she would have done so when fighting Kisame, instead of firing a puny Kunai Bomb at him. Chiyo praises Sakura for being an exellent student to Tsunade, then for her ability to dodge Iron Sand, and then her evasive abilities, medical and strength again later on.

You're being far too brief. When Sakura smashed that puppet it obviously means she was able to keep up with it. And when Chiyo fires that little ball thing for Sakura to grab she manages to jump up quick enough to avoid attacks from about 6 puppets at once, and this is without Chiyo. Without Chiyo Sakura would've done poor, and likewise - without Sakura , Chiyo would've also faired poorly. Ones abilities complimented the others. You're making it sound as if it was all Chiyo. I realise she saved Sakura several times, but Sakura saves her too. And without Sakura, Chiyo would've needed her 10 Chikamatsu puppets to even get past Hiruko. As her physical strength, along with Mother Father puppets physical strength - would not have been enough to break through him. And then she has Iron Sand and 100 Puppets to deal with too.

You're overview is correct. She didn't show anything particulary fantastic speed wise. Though dodging the attack from those six puppets coming at her in all directions shows that her speed at the start of Shippuden was impressive. And the fact she could keep up with those puppets and smash some of them despite being hit by an explosive tag at close range before hand is perhaps just as impressive. But Sakura has shown better speed feats since then, or at least - she has shown better movement ones. [See the chapters the I gave you]

I'm talking about the ones that aren't at the start of Shippuden.

And? Just because her attack wasn't ranged doesn't make it any slower. The attack was still very fast. Which is blatantly obvious. And wut? Since when does Sakuras superhuman strength slow her punches down? I'd like some proof of that. Because her soloing a Giant Caterpillar with a punch almost instantly begs to differ with you. Also note I said Shunshin-like speed. Because all we see is a number of lines, her arm is barely visible. And when people shunshin, they aren't visible - asides a black outline moving around. This looks to be a punch which moves at nearly the same speed. When Sakura takes out that giant caterpillar on Page 2 of Chapter 421, we see from the page before that Sakura is not within the surrounding area where the child fell. She has to be close enough to see the Giant Caterpillar [which doesn't necessarily have to be that close, because ..the caterpillar is massive xD] Either she shunshined at the beast and took it out instantly with a punch. Or her normal speed was enough to jump in front of it so quickly and kill it. Also, all ninja can use Shunshin. Some are just more skilled at it than others. We see that on Chapter 290 pages 15-16, her shunshin has a large distance it can cover. You must have overlooked that part. Also, Tayuyas genjutsu by default is unbeatable - as you are paralysed once caught and cannot move. So assuming someone like Kurenai for example, could not escape it, would be stupid. You can break genjutsu by making a disruption in your chakra flow, and I'm going to make a random assumption and assume that you can do that in another way. Because theres no way in hell that Tayuyas genjutsu is unbeatable - unless you have someone else outside the genjutsu to save you.

To break a Genjutsu all you need to do is disrupt someones chakra flow, or at least- thats what the manga has stated so far. The only exceptions to this are things like Tsukyomi, Izanagi and several genjutsus inside each other. Which are either impossible or extremely hard to dispel. Itachi is a genjutsu master, any genjutsu used by him is notably powerful. Particulary when he was trying to capture Naruto. But more to the point, Sakura and Chiyo putting their chakra into Naruto to disrupt his chakra should not have made any difference, as from the manga, we know you only need one chakra disruption to escape a genjutsu, not two. Granted he was at 30% though.

o.o

Anyway, be sure to look up those chapters I gave you.