Spoiler Pain Over Madara As The Main Antagonist Of The Series

[HachibiXSenpai]

^technically madara holds nearly all strings to the plot

i think we should all agree that orochimaru was a much more suitable villain than both pain/madara i'll admit

[BlackAngel]

Originally Posted by HachibiXSenpai

i think we should all agree that orochimaru was a much more suitable villain than both pain/madara i'll admit

Orochimaru was better then Madara also...in fact, I think your right in some way.

[EvL j3st3r]

Originally Posted by BlackAngel

I never said I wanted to make a thread with only people agreeing to my opinion, I said that I didn't want the usual reasons of Madara being the main villian (evil, cold hearted, powerful). Im done arguing. If you think Madara should be the main villain then thats fine, but at least you should have a good reason for him to be the main villain.

I misunderstood. My apologies.

I think Madara is best as the Main villain for a few reasons.

1. He's the oldest living character in the manga. It's only rational that he's super wise and intelligent so it'll be nearly impossible to out-smart him.

2. The timeline (this goes hand in hand with the first reason) .........the fact that Madara has been around so long allows for him to be tied to everything (Naruto being the jinchuuriki, all the loved ones lost when the ninetails ravaged the village, the founding of the leaf village, the blood feud between the two lines of the RS, Nagato's Rinnegan, Clan forefather of Naruto's arch rival Sasuke, ect.)

3. In the big picture everything bad that's happened has been a product of Madara working behind the scenes. The greatest villains (in my opinion) are the ones that are masters of bending others to their will. Madara is an expert at manipulating others. As you said Nagato was stronger than Madara at that time......yet who was doing who's bidding?

There's no better character (due not only to personality, but also to overall intelligence and circumstances) than Madara to be the Main villain.

[gama-sennin]

Originally Posted by HachibiXSenpai

So you expect naruto just to kill off nagato instead of understanding him just like how nagato understood him? this whole "nagato changed" topic has gone off too much proportion. Honestly, how would the story advance if nagato decided to carry out his plan by eventually failing?? even madara would've betrayed and killed him if nagato somehow managed to continue with his "peace" since madara is going for the "moon eye" plan instead of nagato's wishful thinking. sorry if i'm coming off rather rude but from my perspective i wished people would've quit pointing fingered at nagato being "TNJ'd"

The thing is until Nagato made an appearance the story was about guts and achieving glory through hard work. Nagato brought the prophecy crap with him. Nagato's power levels also made it necessary for the masked guy to be something even more haxxed than him. Nagato should have been the last villain, not just because he was cool, but, because he was exact opposite of Naruto. That would have been an epic ending. Hard work and guts against Rinnegan-the ultimate eye technique.

[HachibiXSenpai]

hard work beats talent *as said by rock lee*

[itachithedarkcrow]

I could agree in some ways but i love seeing madara....

[BlackAngel]

Nagato should have killed Madara.

[EvL j3st3r]

He most likely could have but he was manipulated and decieved by a more intelligent Madara. Thus Madara's awsomeness is what allowed him to live......so still Madara is just better.

Nagato > Madara in power (at that time)

Madara > Nagato in intelligence (at that time)

result of these two things

Madara > Nagato in power and intelligence (present)

Madara greater.

[BlackAngel]

The main reason why Nagato was manipulated was because he didn't care what it took to get his wish. Which was peace and love in the shinobi world.
I don't understand how Madara "encouraged" (may be a lie just like the so called "giving Nagato the Rinnegan"). Yahiko to create Akatsuki.

Which is extremely weird because we never saw the original akatsuki wearing black robes with blood clouds on them.

[temari_hatake]

I think kabuto is the main antagonist. It seems sometimes that he has fallen off the face of earth but when he reappears he is radiating more evilness than ever .

js(:

[Ur Mom]

I say it's still possible Orochimaru may end up being the main antagonist

[EvL j3st3r]

Originally Posted by BlackAngel

The main reason why Nagato was manipulated was because he didn't care what it took to get his wish. Which was peace and love in the shinobi world.
I don't understand how Madara "encouraged" (may be a lie just like the so called "giving Nagato the Rinnegan"). Yahiko to create Akatsuki.

Which is extremely weird because we never saw the original akatsuki wearing black robes with blood clouds on them.

We don't know that it's a lie when Madara say's " I gave Nagato the Rinnegan". And as far as Yahiko goes.......I don't know really. But I'm sure it was more than just a little chat saying "hey man. You should form a group of super strong shinobi to terrorize the ninja world". He probably went along the same lines as he does with everyone else. Play them based on the desires of their heart and use that to steer them into the direction he wants them to go. This is manipulation.

[BlackAngel]

Originally Posted by EvL j3st3r

We don't know that it's a lie when Madara say's " I gave Nagato the Rinnegan". And as far as Yahiko goes.......I don't know really. But I'm sure it was more than just a little chat saying "hey man. You should form a group of super strong shinobi to terrorize the ninja world". He probably went along the same lines as he does with everyone else. Play them based on the desires of their heart and use that to steer them into the direction he wants them to go. This is manipulation.

I said it MAY be a lie, and originally Akatsuki wasn't a terrorist group, it was group of ninja trying to end war in a unorthodox mean. Madara reminds me of Sensui from Yu Yu Hakusho though....same as Nagato.

[EvL j3st3r]

Ok. The way you put it made it sound to me like you meant he may be lying about yahiko just like he did about Nagato's Rinnegan. My bad...filled the blank in with the wrong word.

I really don't feel that either one was a lie. I can't see any reason for him to make up such a random lie to tell Konan, who he was about to kill anyway.

[BlackAngel]

Originally Posted by EvL j3st3r

Ok. The way you put it made it sound to me like you meant he may be lying about yahiko just like he did about Nagato's Rinnegan. My bad...filled the blank in with the wrong word.

I really don't feel that either one was a lie. I can't see any reason for him to make up such a random lie to tell Konan, who he was about to kill anyway.

Its all good, no need to worry. I just feel like he's lying just like he did about the Nine Tails problem 15-16 years ago. I believed him at first it was just a random natural problem, but until we found out he controlled the kyuubi. Ever since that I don't believe him that much anymore. Btw I miss Konan...I hope she comes back...not Edo Tensei btw...but the chances are very slim.

[EvL j3st3r]

Yea I know right. Konan was the most bad-ass female character in the series. Actually...she's the only female character I even found interesting. Mei's got the two KG thing going on and that's pretty cool but she lacks screen time and depth. We really haven't seen her do any REAL battle yet either. I too would like to see more Konan.

[BlackAngel]

Originally Posted by EvL j3st3r

Yea I know right. Konan was the most bad-ass female character in the series. Actually...she's the only female character I even found interesting. Mei's got the two KG thing going on and that's pretty cool but she lacks screen time and depth. We really haven't seen her do any REAL battle yet either. I too would like to see more Konan.

Alot of people dislike Konan without realizing that she is the only character so far to mortally wound Madara (if it wasn't for Izanagi he would have already been dead). A GIRL MADE HIM LOOSE HIS EMS! A FREAKING GIRL! Not even Minato could do something like that. I hope she comes back, I wanted her to join the war and fight side by side with Mei . She should get rid of her akatsuki robe (so we can see her blue kimono dress), get rid of her labret piercing, and let her hair loose (she has a bun, her hair is obviously longer).

[EvL j3st3r]

I agree with all of that except taking out the piercing (which is awsome). In Madara's defense....Konan still wasn't near his level. She knew his abilities well (she thought) and spent a butt load of time preparing all those explosive tags to use an attack that she designed specifically for him. So it wasn't like a spurr of the moment battle where they just matched their regular power against one another. Very early planning and preparation gave Konan a distinct advantage. She also had a slight advantage in the fact that Madara underestimated her from the very beginning. He was being to arrogant to be ready for her ace in the hole.

Having said that.........she still (like you said) cost Madara his eye. She's also the only character we've seen land an attack on Madara at all outside of Minato. And she is the one and only character to cause enough damage to expose atleast part of Madara's face. So, whatever circumstancial advantages she may have had....... those are still some amazing feats.

[BlackAngel]

I like piercing but If she took it off along with the akatsuki robe and let her hair loose it would give her a complete new look. It sucks how Kishi made her die, she was the last ame orphan. All my friends agreed that at least one of the ame orphans should have lived. AT LEAST ONE.

I suspecting that Kabuto hasn't revived her since Madara is butthurt that he lost his EMS against a woman. [/QUOTE]

[Wind Style Naruto]

Lets not forget Konan also blown off his arms. The battle barely began and she already mortally wounded him.....Just impressive but what about Chiyo she trolled Sasori....wait that was Sakura...but she pretty much finished him off though.