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Old 12-03-2010, 06:11 AM   #61
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Default Re: The Final Sasuke Topic. A Better Character Than ANYONE.

/Doesn't read the large Text Wall

I am scared of those, completely strayed me off it ...

Though if anything, Sasuke is a strong and admirable Character, he shows strength in ways, also shows knowledge on things, so really, out of everything, no matter which side he's on, at least he stays or attempts, to stay true to himself and his own reasons.
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Old 12-03-2010, 06:46 AM   #62
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Default Re: The Final Sasuke Topic. A Better Character Than ANYONE.

I made a post earlier in the year explaining all that. People ignored the hell out of me.I don't even know why people hate Sasuke in the first place. He is the exact same character as Naruto. Madara is basically responsible for both of their families deaths. They both have special abilities. They both were both loners as child. They even have the same attack different elements though. Same character different personalities.
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Old 12-03-2010, 07:51 AM   #63
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Default Re: The Final Sasuke Topic. A Better Character Than ANYONE.

TLDR

nuff said
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And you're calling Jun an amateur? JUN of all people? The Jun who could possibly solo everyone? and YES,he can destroy you
for once someone gets it right
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Old 12-03-2010, 11:37 AM   #64
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Default Re: The Final Sasuke Topic. A Better Character Than ANYONE.

i think we shouldn't lable sasuke crazy to soon everytime he does something crazy it makes sense later
he joins orochimaru he takes orochimaru over
he fights naruto( pre time skip) he gets the third stage sharingan and the ms later
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:21 PM   #65
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Default Re: The Final Sasuke Topic. A Better Character Than ANYONE.

Image it as good as Sasuke is he may go good after seeing Itachi he is not crazy is is one of the best characters in the show expectioly in the oringinal naruto
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So many days of boredom, so many shows I love...but what's the point...they will all end soon...so I can never be at peace!
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:40 PM   #66
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Default Re: The Final Sasuke Topic. A Better Character Than ANYONE.

Sasuke is a kick ass awesome character. But you have to admit, he is kinda screwed up.
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:02 PM   #67
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Default Re: The Final Sasuke Topic. A Better Character Than ANYONE.

He is awsome, but he is more evil than I would like.
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:07 PM   #68
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He is awsome, but he is more evil than I would like.
That is what makes an awesome, disturbed villain.
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:23 PM   #69
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Default Re: The Final Sasuke Topic. A Better Character Than ANYONE.

yea but I liked him better when he was just a loner seeking revenge over family issues. The kill everyone and everything twist was a bit much for me. It was like watching Anakin Skywalker slowly become Darth Vader. The super evil villains are fun to see but it's kind of disheartening when you've already seen them as one of the main protagonists. You have to see a big part of the character you liked so much die. We can see virtually no good in Sasuke anymore. Kishi killed a part of his character that drew us to him. It's still good writing bc it's captivating but it also still sucks.
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Old 01-10-2011, 01:01 AM   #70
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Default Re: The Final Sasuke Topic. A Better Character Than ANYONE.

Good thread on Sasuke. I think Sasuke is one of the most interesting characters in the series mostly because I find the concept of revenge interesting because on one side you think "this is wrong" but on the other side you think "but if i was me..." You can't really say that you would not follow Sasuke's path if you were in his shoes because nobody but Sasuke has ever been in his shoes (nevermind that he is fictional.) Even when Sasuke killed my favorite character Danzo I have to admit
it was still fairly cool. Did I want Danzo to annihilate Sasuke? Of course I did.
Did I expect Danzo to annihilate Sasuke? Of course I didn't. Sasuke is the main
character and it should be expected that he would win. Although some parts
of the fight felt forced it was still fun to read. Ironically in the end I think
Sasuke will realize that although Danzo is a crafty badger...he was right all along.

Then there's Naruto. Naruto is awesome. Why is Naruto awesome? Because thinking about it he's pretty much Sasuke gone down the path of good. Good has the taboo
of being cheesy. But good is hardly cheesy at all. Good is not an easy path as the
cheesy good makes good out to be. Naruto is awesome because he shows us that
it took hard work and sacrifice to get to good and son of the Hokage or not Naruto
still did work very hard to get to the point of where he is. Call him a genius if you
want but remember that Kakashi called even Rock Lee a genius and not just one
of hard work.


Also that's too bad about your own family situation. Coming from someone like me,
who has not experienced what you went through this may mean absolutely
nothing to you but sorry you had to go through that. Again I have not experienced
what you went through but my own family situation which while quite mild to your
own family situation is still not what one would consider normal. My life isn't tragic
but it is abnormal. Though the funny part is that it's not the abnormality of my
life that bothers me it's the normality of my life that bothers me. Things everyone
else is bothered about bothers me. Though I try to see that these things that
are bothersome are trivial in the end. I have to admit though that my life has
gotten better. Is it the best I would hope for it to be? No but that's only because
I set high expectations for myself. Which is ironic because I'm so lazy. :P
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Old 01-10-2011, 06:50 PM   #71
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Well, much appreciated that you took the time out of your night to read the whole thing. ^_^
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Old 01-10-2011, 06:55 PM   #72
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yea but I liked him better when he was just a loner seeking revenge over family issues. The kill everyone and everything twist was a bit much for me. It was like watching Anakin Skywalker slowly become Darth Vader. The super evil villains are fun to see but it's kind of disheartening when you've already seen them as one of the main protagonists. You have to see a big part of the character you liked so much die. We can see virtually no good in Sasuke anymore. Kishi killed a part of his character that drew us to him. It's still good writing bc it's captivating but it also still sucks.
He was a weak loser then. Now he is all bad ass and power craved. And that is why, it's called a plot twist.
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Old 01-10-2011, 07:13 PM   #73
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Default Re: The Final Sasuke Topic. A Better Character Than ANYONE.

I've never read the full first post, and probably never will (no offense). I simply never had a problem with Sasuke as a character. The only thing I don't understand is how Sasuke changed as a character from someone who would spare even fodder to someone who would kill without a second thought. You can say it was because of learning the truth, but look at his fight with Killerbee. Every one of his teammates saved his life, and when he saved theirs he thought of the old Team 7 for an instant. That was after he'd known the truth for a while. Do you have any explanation for this? (I still think Madara is behind it.)
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:05 AM   #74
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Well, much appreciated that you took the time out of your night to read the whole thing. ^_^
Heh well even if it is long at least you're saying something.
Some people can go on for miles and say absolutely nothing.



Some people are me.
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:37 AM   #75
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Default Re: The Final Sasuke Topic. A Better Character Than ANYONE.

Read it -Jak

I still say, it still makes it hard for me to sympathize with him, but thats due to my nature.
I think Naruto is an idiot, I strongly believe that if you get near to killing yourself, you can achieve anything.
But acting nonchalantly about it... leads to a feeling of invincibility, which is called overconfidence, It can make you stupid...
I almost had hope for him in the Pain Invasion Arc.

But this is about Sasuke

Sasuke may live in a tone of depression, I can sympathize with that. But too many people suffer in a pessimistic mood, as I understand it. Stress, and multiple other factors can induce in hormonal teens, certain mindsets.
I can sympathize with Sasuke THIS far.
Trust me, I get REALLY annoyed when someone, namely my retarded brother... Starts complaining about the menial things, whether its Justin Bieber, or Edward Cullen.
Sasuke is near the same of something I despise, and hate to the core, Pessimists.
I wont call him 'Emo', I wont call him a 'Complainer'. But I certainly cant pity him.
Naruto may be going about this the wrong way, if Sasuke doesnt want to take his time, not get emotional, and figure out a difference between right and wrong, then he can go and become a traitor and mass murderer.

Now, TBC probably put Kishimoto's feelings towards Sasuke's character better than Kishi could himself, which is why I suggest you go back in time, and help Kishi develop Sasuke into a character I could appreciate

TL;DR, Nice 20+ Paragraphs TBC, Still dont like Sasuke all that much still
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:05 AM   #76
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Default Re: The Final Sasuke Topic. A Better Character Than ANYONE.

agree with deadera....never had a problem with him before. Mainly bc I love characters that make me mad!!! I know weird, but characters that pervoke powerful emotions from the audience, hate, love, etc is what makes a show, movie, or song great.
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:44 PM   #77
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Default Re: The Final Sasuke Topic. A Better Character Than ANYONE.

I don't know why I am doing this as this is so old and despite what you say we all know Sasuke is a complete lame-wad, emo loser; nevertheless, I fell I can add something here.
Let me summarize your points that I feel need to be address.


1. Sasuke has gone through some complete messed up sheet
2. It's not his fault other people want to be his friends as he didn't ask for them
3. He is only following his goal no matter what the cost
4. His obsession with his brother is justified
5. Upon finding that his brother is innocent, his obsession with getting revenge is justified.

EINS!

I can agree that what Sasuke went through is certainly beyond what any of us could understand. I think most of us would be messed in the head after not only your family, but essentially your entire community was killed. I think the only actual people that could have any understanding of that are the survivors of the Holocaust, survivors of the A-bombs dropped on Japan, or similar type atrocities. So yes, this does excuse Sasuke from being messed up, and I will give him a large leeway for this. I will save his decisions about this action for the next sections.


ZWEI!


Sasuke is indeed an ass to both Sakura and Naruto. Any normal person would say Any normal person would say “fork Q” with his arrogant, stand-offish attitude; however, giving credit to Naruto and eventually Sakura, they keep trying to be his friend. You claim that this is still not his fault as he doesn't want friends and tells them that. I think Sakura case you are exactly right.

After trying to get her to buzz off and proceed to fulfill his dream of being more powerful. ( Sadly Sasuke just sucks at training I guess), he does indeed listen to the entirety of Sakura's diatribe. In fact, I will say Sasuke acted honorably here. He does not like Sakura, not at all really, but it does show that he respects her. How is someone supposed to react when some loves you, but you do not. You could just blow them off, but he did not do that. Heck, he even thanked her for her feelings showing that he understood what she was doing.

Hmm, I am having a hard time showing Sasuke is a emo jerk. Wait, here comes Naruto. Good this will work. Can we say the same thing about Naruto? Nope. Sasuke is an ass thesis works here. You may want to claim Sasuke does not feel friendship with Naruto, and all the previous knowledge we have would such suggest that this is true, but sadly Kishimoto does not allow this. Sasuke himself states that Naruto is his best friend. He goes through an angst ridden diatribe about how he must break this bond to become stronger. Sorry but this is one of the most pathetic moments of Sasuke, and to top it all off he does’t even go through with it. He lets Naruto live because apparently he doesn’t want to follow Itachi’s advice.

What? I thought he would do anything to become more powerful? So he will join the sworn enemy of his village, but he won’t kill one person that as you claim isn’t that important to him? Whether I agree with his goals or not, this is just stupid and illogical. Note that this point will come up again. I think a better explanation, which is that Sasuke still cares too much for Naruto to kill him. I don’t care that Sasuke later says, he saved Naruto because of a whim; I saw him staring into Naruto’s eyes at the end of that battle, such a poser.
DREI!!!

I guess we have moved on to the third point. All of his actions including leaving the village are justified because he needs to fulfill his goal. I do agree that relentless pursuit of a goal makes for an interesting character, i.e see Danzo. However, I think the way Sasuke goes about it is what detracts from his character. Sasuke was perfectly fine training in the village when he thought he was the strongest person there, but then he can’t defeat Gaara and, shame upon shame, Naruto can. Sasuke becomes angry that Naruto is catching up with him; he never acknowledges that Naruto is stronger than him. In fact, he gets so upset he fights Naruto. I am sorry but this is Loserville population Sasuke. He isn’t thinking about his brother here; he is just jealous. Look how shocked he is when he sees the rasengan is stronger than his chidori. This moment is another low point of Sasuke’s. Fine the Sound Four convince him that he needs more power to defeat Itachi. Sadly, his stupid head can’t seem to figure out that if Naruto can catch up to him while training in Konoha, perhaps Sasuke himself can become stronger as well. Nope, let’s leave the village because I suck. Yes, Sasuke you do. The problem I have here is not that Sasuke decides to leave, but that he doesn’t even believe in himself that he can become stronger. He is like the baseball player taking steroids to hit more homeruns, just pathetic.


VIER!!!


Alright, I guess we need to move on to his goal. Sasuke wants his revenge and no one understands him. Firstly, I don’t think this is true. Kakashi can very well understand Sasuke’s point of view. Kakashi mom dies at a young age, and he worshiped his father. Then when his father sacrifices his mission to save his teammates, he is reviled. So much so that Kakashi’s father kills himself. Next Kakashi team dies and gives Kakashi his eye. Somehow his other teammate and mentor die as well. Sasuke dismissal of Kakashi is a grave mark against him. I will leave future events until later.


However, I will say Sasuke revenge makes some sense. His own brother killed his entire clan. Of course, he wants to kill him. It also makes sense that he wants to do this himself. Having others kill Itachi would make no sense. Again, I give Sasuke a pass on this, and it makes for an interesting character.


FUNF!!!!


However, when Sasuke kills his brother his justification becomes extremely tenuous at best. Let lay this out. Sasuke gets his revenge on his vile brother, although we should note Itachi dies as Sasuke doesn’t kill him, he learns from Madara that whoops Itachi was good, NOW IMUST DESTROY KONOHA. Umm, this seems a bit cracked, actually I wished Sasuke was cracked *sighnation* I can believe Sasuke is shocked about the turn of events learning that Itachi loved him and kill the clan because they were obsessed with power, but blaming everyone in the village for this makes little sense. First of all this was Itachi’s choice. Second of all, Sasuke clan is pretty much evil. Getting revenge here makes little sense because what he wants back, a loving idyllic family, didn’t exist in the first place.


Here's mud in your sharingain eye!


Okay, maybe we can say he wants to get revenge on Itachi’s living a life as a criminal. I can live with that. Therefore, his desire for revenge on Danzo and the elders makes sense. They did order Itachi into this little arrangement. Sure I didn’t like that Sasuke killed Danzo. :[ but I don’t really begrudge him for it. Then Sasuke gave off an evil cackle. I thought “Huzzah” Sasuke has finally become the cracked villain anyone could love ala Kefka. Sadly, this moment lasts only a sec. Sasuke needs to kill everyone in Konoha. Why? Because they are happy when he is not. How damn pathetic. Sasuke then spouts off that he needs to kill Kakashi for blah blah blah…I don’t even really even care anymore except to say Sasuke desire to kill Kakashi makes little since as Kakashi does understand, and Kakashi had no involvement in the destruction of his clan. Anyway his desire that everyone know how he feels wipes out any respect I have for him. If he wants revenge do it, stop whining about it. Not to mention he goes around killing innocent Samurai just because they get in his way. The he takes Itachis’s eyes. What a scum bucket. Yes, I know many of these facts came to light after your thesis. TOO BAD! D:


Man, I could go for a scotch, you game?


So let me summarize. Was Sasuke a jerk? Hell yes, but he was cool and aloof plus he didn’t give a rat’s ass about anyone. Not my favorite character, but enough to be respected. His little leaving the village act was overwrought, but we can ignore it. However after Itachi’s death, his character has become the most whining, emo, piece of garbage imaginable. How I despise him.

I could comment on your personal connection to Sasuke, but everyone would see me as an ass except perhaps you. You know how straight to the point I am. Heehee
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Last edited by Wooster; 01-14-2011 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:49 PM   #78
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Default Re: The Final Sasuke Topic. A Better Character Than ANYONE.

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Originally Posted by zerosameri View Post
He was a weak loser then. Now he is all bad ass and power craved. And that is why, it's called a plot twist.
I said it's still good writing. It's just not my preference.
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- are you able to think of anything that i'm not catching yet as to how nagato's Peins were never alive to begin with as compared to Tobi's Peinis?
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:48 PM   #79
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Default Re: The Final Sasuke Topic. A Better Character Than ANYONE.

I'm only going to respond to the bad things. >:O

Quote:
Hmm, I am having a hard time showing Sasuke is a emo jerk. Wait, here comes Naruto. Good this will work. Can we say the same thing about Naruto? Nope. Sasuke is an ass thesis works here. You may want to claim Sasuke does not feel friendship with Naruto, and all the previous knowledge we have would such suggest that this is true, but sadly Kishimoto does not allow this. Sasuke himself states that Naruto is his best friend. He goes through an angst ridden diatribe about how he must break this bond to become stronger. Sorry but this is one of the most pathetic moments of Sasuke, and to top it all off he does’t even go through with it. He lets Naruto live because apparently he doesn’t want to follow Itachi’s advice.

What? I thought he would do anything to become more powerful? So he will join the sworn enemy of his village, but he won’t kill one person that as you claim isn’t that important to him? Whether I agree with his goals or not, this is just stupid and illogical. Note that this point will come up again. I think a better explanation, which is that Sasuke still cares too much for Naruto to kill him. I don’t care that Sasuke later says, he saved Naruto because of a whim; I saw him staring into Naruto’s eyes at the end of that battle, such a poser.
Sasuke tried killing Naruto in their fight. Several times. If my validation of Sasuke's thoughts are correct, he wanted to proof himself against Naruto more than anyone besides Itachi. Four times in four situations, Naruto embarassed him.

Naruto defeated Haku when Sasuke couldn't.
Naruto took out that snake in the forest against Orochimaru.
Naruto summoned Gamabunta and defeated Gaara. (Big one)
Naruto's Rasengan on the rooftop >>>> Sasuke's Chidori

Top that off with Itachi embarassing him and coming there just for Naruto, I'd say he had grounds to fight Naruto with all his might. And he did. He admittedly pushed himself to his strongest form, and defeated Naruto. He realized "Hey wow, I really can get stronger on my own." So he left Naruto out of respect, honor, and final wishes to his friend.

Also note that in those 3 years Orochimaru was with Sasuke, not a single person from Konoha was ever harmed. That and he kills him.

Quote:
The problem I have here is not that Sasuke decides to leave, but that he doesn’t even believe in himself that he can become stronger.
I disagree. I feel like that's exactly why he didn't kill Naruto. From what he knew, he could have awokened the Mongekyo Sharingan right then and there. But he didn't, he even said I'll do this without your help. And he used Orochimaru, even killed him after. Learned everything he could, and then purged the world(lolfail) of his vileness.

Quote:
Alright, I guess we need to move on to his goal. Sasuke wants his revenge and no one understands him. Firstly, I don’t think this is true. Kakashi can very well understand Sasuke’s point of view. Kakashi mom dies at a young age, and he worshiped his father. Then when his father sacrifices his mission to save his teammates, he is reviled. So much so that Kakashi’s father kills himself. Next Kakashi team dies and gives Kakashi his eye. Somehow his other teammate and mentor die as well. Sasuke dismissal of Kakashi is a grave mark against him. I will leave future events until later.
If Tobi=Obito, Kakashi will be able to relate to Sasuke.

Quote:
However, when Sasuke kills his brother his justification becomes extremely tenuous at best. Let lay this out. Sasuke gets his revenge on his vile brother, although we should note Itachi dies as Sasuke doesn’t kill him, he learns from Madara that whoops Itachi was good, NOW IMUST DESTROY KONOHA. Umm, this seems a bit cracked, actually I wished Sasuke was cracked *sighnation* I can believe Sasuke is shocked about the turn of events learning that Itachi loved him and kill the clan because they were obsessed with power, but blaming everyone in the village for this makes little sense. First of all this was Itachi’s choice. Second of all, Sasuke clan is pretty much evil. Getting revenge here makes little sense because what he wants back, a loving idyllic family, didn’t exist in the first place.
In my defense, Sasuke only wanted to kill the elders when I made that post.

(I see you covered that in your next paragraph)

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Man, I could go for a scotch, you game?
Sure. Also, I like the use of the word 'aloof'.
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:05 PM   #80
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Default Re: The Final Sasuke Topic. A Better Character Than ANYONE.

@TBC...concerning the first part of your last post......I see what you're saying there but I don't really think that's the case. I think when it really boils down to it, Sasuke just couldn't finish Naruto off bc of there bond. Sasuke was actually human back then. Naruto was his closest bond. He spared Naruto out of love, even if he didn't realize it at the time. He just couldn't kill that part of himself back then. Mind you he would probably most definately be willing to deliver the death blow to Naruto now.
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Quote:
^red.
You may want to respell that.
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