Spoiler: Chapter 519 Discussion - Page 6

Wooster · 12-06-2010, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jutsu Junkie

Well, this is the definition I scrounged up from the dark corners of the forum:

That is a description of deus ex machina, so they are the same thing.

But if you mean there was just a plot hole (a mistake), then I didn't see that either.

I wouldn't call them the same thing. Deus ex machina is also used to explain the entire plot of a story after the fact. That is particularity vexing. Plot no Jutsu is at least plausibly it just grows wearisome.

So I would say Deus ex machina relies on rules outside those originally established; whereas, Plot no Jutsu relies on the the established riles but strains them to the bursting point.

Obvioulsy, plot holes are a different animal all together. They often occur when the author goes back in time to explain something. Blasted retcon. >.>
Whether this is plo thole is debatable because I think it is evoking fate rather than Minato having direct knowledge. As that is likely the case, we can say it is perhaps hokey, but it is not a plot hole.

Jutsu Junkie · 12-06-2010, 07:28 AM

That's how I see it. Even according to your definition, this would make PNJ deus ex machina. Of course, it can't explain away the entire plot, because the story isn't finished yet. But I can tell you any creative writing instructor would immediately id PNJ as DEM. Thing is, even if it had to be the resolution of the final plot to qualify (it doesn't), they are the same kind of insidious problem.

Wooster · 12-06-2010, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jutsu Junkie

That's how I see it. Even according to your definition, this would make PNJ deus ex machina. Of course, it can't explain away the entire plot, because the story isn't finished yet. But I can tell you any creative writing instructor would immediately id PNJ as DEM. Thing is, even if it had to be the resolution of the final plot to qualify (it doesn't), they are the same kind of insidious problem.

Hmm, yes I agree that PNJ could be considered a subset of Desu ex Machina. As in they are both due to laziness. However, I still think PNJ can not necessarily be Deus ex Machina as it could have been introduced before. It is more it is demanded by the plot. Thus, I would have the same circles, but none would be contained completely within one another. PnJ and DeM don't necessarily cause plot problems; it is just likely that they would.

Jutsu Junkie · 12-06-2010, 08:19 AM

I see your point, although most literary critics would cite DeM as the quintessential plot problem, lol. Not because it breaks the plot, but because it weakens the story and compromises suspension of disbelief. In creative writing, it is the first thing you are taught to avoid like the plague...

zerosameri · 12-06-2010, 05:51 PM

this thread needs to be de-sticked now....

Vivi · 12-06-2010, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerosameri

this thread needs to be de-sticked now....

Leave it up until the new Chapter is out.
As long as 519 is the recent one this should be up.

zerosameri · 12-06-2010, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivi

Leave it up until the new Chapter is out.
As long as 519 is the recent one this should be up.

It's not like I can de-sticky it ( I know what you meant. It's just the way your phrased that)

--

@JutsuJunky:

Quote:

suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new character, ability, or object.

PNJ never gets solved, it just adds more PNJ.

EllexElla · 12-06-2010, 11:23 PM

Naruto's faces were priceless! xD

george hyuga · 12-06-2010, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EllexElla

Naruto's faces were priceless! xD

lol cute fox tho

EllexElla · 12-06-2010, 11:33 PM

IKR xDD

george hyuga · 12-06-2010, 11:35 PM

lol yep he looked hugable

Hando Craap · 12-07-2010, 04:16 AM

Made ya want to go out and find a wild fox,raise it,and teach it kyubi tricks,did it?

george hyuga · 12-07-2010, 02:33 PM

not exactly, made me want to search for a male and female fox and breed a baby fox XD

Hando Craap · 12-07-2010, 05:44 PM

I couldn't do that...my labs would think they were cats...lol

Two-Tailed Monster Cat · 12-07-2010, 09:05 PM

About time menacing ball gets an official name...."Tailed Beast Ball"? Eh I liked the fake name better

george hyuga · 12-07-2010, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two-Tailed Monster Cat

About time menacing ball gets an official name...."Tailed Beast Ball"? Eh I liked the fake name better

menacing ball sounds better

Jakropha · 12-08-2010, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by george hyuga

menacing ball sounds better

Ok, if I were writing this, I would make a 10Fold stronger jutsu, it requires two heads in Kyuubi form, and you charge up two Menacing Balls.

If it were Tailed beast ball, it would be...

Spoiler:

Uchiha Raimaru · 12-08-2010, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by george hyuga

menacing ball sounds better

This^

Two-Tailed Monster Cat · 12-08-2010, 11:48 AM

Yeah o.o who came up with menacing ball before the official name came out? Was it just something random people called it?

george hyuga · 12-08-2010, 12:18 PM

lol i just started hearing menacing ball, never read it on the manga

12-06-2010, 07:28 AM	#102
Jutsu Junkie Veteran Chunin Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Evil Santa's transdimensional jackboot Posts: 1,442 Rep Power: 7	Re: Naruto 519 Discussion That's how I see it. Even according to your definition, this would make PNJ deus ex machina. Of course, it can't explain away the entire plot, because the story isn't finished yet. But I can tell you any creative writing instructor would immediately id PNJ as DEM. Thing is, even if it had to be the resolution of the final plot to qualify (it doesn't), they are the same kind of insidious problem. __________________ Power does not corrupt men; fools, however, if they get into a position of power, corrupt power. --George Bernard Shaw

12-06-2010, 08:19 AM	#104
Jutsu Junkie Veteran Chunin Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Evil Santa's transdimensional jackboot Posts: 1,442 Rep Power: 7	Re: Naruto 519 Discussion I see your point, although most literary critics would cite DeM as the quintessential plot problem, lol. Not because it breaks the plot, but because it weakens the story and compromises suspension of disbelief. In creative writing, it is the first thing you are taught to avoid like the plague... __________________ Power does not corrupt men; fools, however, if they get into a position of power, corrupt power. --George Bernard Shaw

12-06-2010, 05:51 PM	#105
zerosameri Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sasuke Won Posts: 19,226 Rep Power: 19 Member's Picture Albums Awards Showcase Total Awards: 2 Total Points: 254	Re: Naruto 519 Discussion this thread needs to be de-sticked now.... __________________ Tobi and his 'Senpai' moments To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-06-2010, 11:23 PM	#108
EllexElla Academy Graduate Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: I hope in Earth o.O" Posts: 62 Rep Power: 5	Re: Naruto 519 Discussion Naruto's faces were priceless! xD

12-06-2010, 11:33 PM	#110
EllexElla Academy Graduate Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: I hope in Earth o.O" Posts: 62 Rep Power: 5	Re: Naruto 519 Discussion IKR xDD

12-06-2010, 11:35 PM	#111
george hyuga Jonin Leader Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: A house Posts: 19,692 Rep Power: 13 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Naruto 519 Discussion lol yep he looked hugable __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-07-2010, 04:16 AM	#112
Hando Craap Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Village Hidden Under the Pebble (it's a small village) Posts: 2,097 Rep Power: 12 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 1 Total Points: 4	Re: Chapter 519 Discussion Made ya want to go out and find a wild fox,raise it,and teach it kyubi tricks,did it? __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no chaos, there is harmony. There is no death, there is the Force. There is no Force,there is only Giggity-Goo

12-07-2010, 02:33 PM	#113
george hyuga Jonin Leader Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: A house Posts: 19,692 Rep Power: 13 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Chapter 519 Discussion not exactly, made me want to search for a male and female fox and breed a baby fox XD __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-07-2010, 05:44 PM	#114
Hando Craap Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Village Hidden Under the Pebble (it's a small village) Posts: 2,097 Rep Power: 12 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 1 Total Points: 4	Re: Chapter 519 Discussion I couldn't do that...my labs would think they were cats...lol __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no chaos, there is harmony. There is no death, there is the Force. There is no Force,there is only Giggity-Goo

12-07-2010, 09:05 PM	#115
Two-Tailed Monster Cat Chunin Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Akatsuki's Statue Posts: 903 Rep Power: 6	Re: Chapter 519 Discussion About time menacing ball gets an official name...."Tailed Beast Ball"? Eh I liked the fake name better __________________ Having problems with my original account........hopefully will be fixed soon To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-08-2010, 11:48 AM	#119
Two-Tailed Monster Cat Chunin Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Akatsuki's Statue Posts: 903 Rep Power: 6	Re: Chapter 519 Discussion Yeah o.o who came up with menacing ball before the official name came out? Was it just something random people called it? __________________ Having problems with my original account........hopefully will be fixed soon To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-08-2010, 12:18 PM	#120
george hyuga Jonin Leader Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: A house Posts: 19,692 Rep Power: 13 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Chapter 519 Discussion lol i just started hearing menacing ball, never read it on the manga __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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