The 5 Golden Rules of NUNS2

[Tevin Hyuga]

Originally Posted by Reyno

I don't particularly remember the specifics of our battle, but see, normally even air combos don't work against me. When a match is laggy I always get caught a lot more than I normally would, but most people that have played me can tell you that it's not so easy to catch me close-range. Most of the better players are the same way - you really just can't hit them.

True, that's why it's good for a character to have a short air combo, because if it doesn't finish it can do some ok damage.

[INFINITE LIGHT]

Instead of quoting the book of OWNAGE in my opening post I will quote Sonoske from Rouroni Kenshin.

"Everywhere you go it's always the same. People are people, and the sun still shines." - Sonosoke/Zanza The Gangster | Rouroni Kenshin

I have heard this arguement a thousand times over a thousand games over a thousand forums. But the answer is always the same. Once again I, the best NARUTO ULTIMATE NINJA STORM 2 PLAYER IN THE WORLD, will give you that answer.

1.) This IS a fighting game. Yes, the system is different. But you must understand that the only thing that fighting games have in common is the fact that characters on the screen are fighting and a life bar.

The strategies, tactics, mindgames, mixups, and the natural most efficient way to play is always different.

In tekken throwing is a mixup cause it can be broken. In Dead or alive throwing is a punish because it beats counters and cannot be broken. In Smash Brothers Melee throws are often combo starters which will get you as much damage as any other combo starter.

It depends on the game and the function of the "move." We unify all games by saying "punch" in this game is a "punch" in that game. But in reality, those punches can have two entirely different functions and mind games behind them.

IN THE END, WHEN A SYSTEM IS CREATED BY MAN, SELDOM IS THE MOST EFFICIENT STRATEGIES TO VICTORY EVER CONSIDERED, THAT IS FOR THE PEOPLE WITHIN THE SYSTEM TO FIGURE OUT. EITHER THAT SYSTEM BE A GAME OR THAT SYSTEM BEING GETTING INTO THE MUSIC INDUSTRY.


2.) I understand that it is a leap of logic for you to look at what you label a "punch" the staple of all fighting games and then for someone to tell you NOT TO DO IT. It's not that you shouldn't punch, it's just that the function of a punch is different in this sytem.

Don't let the fact that a punch is a punch blind you. Don't let the label of punch blind you. Simply look at whats there.

a. If you KnJ a single punch that punch is most of the time more unsafe than your characters jutsu on recover.

b. The longer a combo lasts in this game the more likely you are to get KnJed. Most of the time in punch combos the person KnJs and hits you with one attack (ultimate jutsu, regular jutsu, team ultimate jutsu) that does double or even MORE the damage of you hitting them.

So if comboing and punching is SO EASY to KnJ and will ALWAYS get punished by somebody good with something that.


3.) What I am about to say now is not only a golden rule of fighting games but a golden rule of life in general. Those who apply this, overcome. Those who donot, stay where they are at. Now I shall speak

"You can either complain about the strategy being used or overcome it and win, but you cannot do both."


You can either complain that someone is spamming and using a move over and over and over again, or you could simply decide that since you KNOW what they are going to do figure out a way to overcome it.

You can either decide a strategy is cheap and label the other person WRONG for using it and you RIGHT for complaining about it even though you have LOST. Or you could simply admit your defeat completely and simply try to overcome it instead of saying even though you have lost you have taken the moral ground.

You see another way of saying all this is YOU SHOULD FOCUS ON THE SOLUTION, NOT THE PROBLEM. And everyone will agree with this. This is clearly so to all who have applied this little cliche truth to their life. Yet when you tell them to do this in fighting game they just keep complaining.


4.) In the end like I have said before in all systems there are strategies that are inherently superior to others. So in the end we have a choice.

We can look at those strategies, the most efficient ways to play the game and the most efficient mindsets to take up while playing the game and we can use them. All of us, with all our characters, in all ways. Then, we can figrue out how to overcome them step by step by step and there is something odd that will happen. You will see that this once grand strategy that you labeled cheap beyond all reason is really completely beatable and fair.

But most people don't get to that stage because they are to busy labeling things that are in the game cheap, spam, and so on and so forth.

In the end, the community has a choice.


They can continue to complain about spammers to such an extent that it creates rules to outcast them from the tournament.

Or


We can play the game in it's most efficient mannor possible. Why do this? Because that is what is done in life. People who attack niches, apply themselves fully, see things as they really are and take advantage of that understanding succeed. We as people naturally use the most efficient strategy for whatever system we are dealing with.

Furthermore to not do things that are in the game because they are labeled "unfair" is to create a limit on us as people.

Other communities have made their choice. From tekken, to street fighter, to tvc. You will never hear a top player yelp out cheap. For they understand the truth.

Things like cheap and spamming are just judgemental labels people put on strategies that they cannot overcome. Furthermore it is detremental to ones development.


A habit is a habit regardless of where it is formed and over what medium. Shall you call strategies people use in other areas of life cheap as well?




Accept these truths:

1.) There is no cheap, spamming, or unfair. If it is in the game, do it.
2.) You are not morally correct in any way shape or form for taking an illusionary high road and not using the most efficient strategy that brings victory. There is nothing that makes you right, there is nothing that makes them wrong.
3.) Stop complaining, start overcoming.




In the end, this is the only way to win.





____________


PSN: JustOwnin
360: i JustOwnin i

[tasic]

i laugh at your "im the best player speech", i do. if anything the vid posted in this thread showed just the opposite.
you can theorycraft about the game mechanics all day long but u dont apply
what you say. thats that.

secondly, what u dont seem to realize is that the game is not balanced, and hence when ppl complain about spam they 99% of the time actually want to say that the game is at some points ridicously imbalanced.
here comes the "spamming takes no skill argument" into play.
lets say i agree that noone and nothing is unbeatable etc.
however, if a certain tactic takes X skill to execute and win and the counter to that strategy takes more than X skill to execute it makes the game imbalanced for the latter player.

lets face it, if you somehow find yourself without chakra vs a deidara spammer you are done for unless you picked some heavy defensive supports.

whole point of my post is that when ppl say "u just won cuz u spam" aka "ur broken char saved u" is more than not justified.

i also find it hard to believe ALL of your melee comboes get KnJ'd, maybe melee is not THE way to go in this fighting game, however if you pay attention thru the fight you will find more than enough openings to use it.
unless you're playing turbocontroller abusing newfriends, thats another story.

edit: once again, i agree. the better player SHOULD win, and most of the times that happens. mb not the better player, but the one who performed better at the time. yes, winning should not be easy, it should require effort on your part. but as this game in particular is at the moment, some imbalances just take insane amounts of effort to overcome i.e. itachis susano

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by iJustOwnin

Accept these truths:

1.) There is no cheap, spamming, or unfair. If it is in the game, do it.
2.) You are not morally correct in any way shape or form for taking an illusionary high road and not using the most efficient strategy that brings victory. There is nothing that makes you right, there is nothing that makes them wrong.
3.) Stop complaining, start overcoming.




In the end, this is the only way to win.

You should stop making excuses for playing like trash. :P It's unfitting of the "greatest player in the world" that got owned by frosty2k.

1) Theres spamming, cheap, and unfair. Being a good player means that you don't have to resort to any of the three in order to win, and overcoming others who use this way is what makes you good.

2) Taking the high road is what makes a player good. Any two bit garbage can mash guard until they KnJ and fire off a rasengan. Doing this does not make you a "good player", and using the most efficent strategy is not always using the most effective, and good players know that. What makes you right is skill, what makes them wrong is ignorance.

3) Stop complaining, start overcoming. Stop taking the easiest road, take the one that improves you. Stop making yourself something your not, become something that you need to be.

The bad players think winning makes you good, the good players know that theres a line between winning and being good at something.

Best player in the world? You are nothing but some two-cent scrub I've fought 250 of in ranked. You are nothing special, you are what thousands have become... and even then I've fought better versions. Stop disillusioning yourself and try to learn the game, and maybe you can rise up from the stage of being just another face.

[INFINITE LIGHT]

That was the first time I fought against the itachi strat so he beat me. Later we had a rematch I recorded. I beat him in a first to 5. I will put these videos up now.

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by iJustOwnin

That was the first time I fought against the itachi strat so he beat me. Later we had a rematch I recorded. I beat him in a first to 5. I will put these videos up now.

Sounds like a john to me, but I don't want to see the videos if its just you spamming supports and KnJ rasengan. It'd be a waste of everyones time. Don't bother linking unless you have something people would want to see.

[INFINITE LIGHT]

Originally Posted by tasic

i laugh at your "im the best player speech", i do. if anything the vid posted in this thread showed just the opposite.
you can theorycraft about the game mechanics all day long but u dont apply
what you say. thats that.

secondly, what u dont seem to realize is that the game is not balanced, and hence when ppl complain about spam they 99% of the time actually want to say that the game is at some points ridicously imbalanced.
here comes the "spamming takes no skill argument" into play.
lets say i agree that noone and nothing is unbeatable etc.
however, if a certain tactic takes X skill to execute and win and the counter to that strategy takes more than X skill to execute it makes the game imbalanced for the latter player.

lets face it, if you somehow find yourself without chakra vs a deidara spammer you are done for unless you picked some heavy defensive supports.

whole point of my post is that when ppl say "u just won cuz u spam" aka "ur broken char saved u" is more than not justified.

i also find it hard to believe ALL of your melee comboes get KnJ'd, maybe melee is not THE way to go in this fighting game, however if you pay attention thru the fight you will find more than enough openings to use it.
unless you're playing turbocontroller abusing newfriends, thats another story.

edit: once again, i agree. the better player SHOULD win, and most of the times that happens. mb not the better player, but the one who performed better at the time. yes, winning should not be easy, it should require effort on your part. but as this game in particular is at the moment, some imbalances just take insane amounts of effort to overcome i.e. itachis susano

There are characters that are better than other characters. There are some good strategies in this game. Truly, this game has a tier list with people in high mid and low tier. But that's how all fighting games are.

This game doesn't have anuything that deserves to be banned statuse besides the hinata and pain glitch.



In the end it's simply this. If you want to complain about the game and not get better, go ahead and do it.

But if you want to get better and play the game in it's most natural efficient mannor creating higher and higher levels of understanding, fun, and skill, then I suggest you think about your beliefs.


I am the best, this is true. But nobody has ever become the best thinking about the problem. Always by thinking of the solution.

[Matas]

Originally Posted by iJustOwnin

There are characters that are better than other characters. There are some good strategies in this game. Truly, this game has a tier list with people in high mid and low tier. But that's how all fighting games are.

This game doesn't have anuything that deserves to be banned statuse besides the hinata and pain glitch.



In the end it's simply this. If you want to complain about the game and not get better, go ahead and do it.

But if you want to get better and play the game in it's most natural efficient mannor creating higher and higher levels of understanding, fun, and skill, then I suggest you think about your beliefs.


I am the best, this is true. But nobody has ever become the best thinking about the problem. Always by thinking of the solution.

What glitch?

[pathbeyondthedark]

Originally Posted by Matas

What glitch?

If you trap a player in-between Almighty Push and Hinata's jutsu it can take away a full health bar I've heard.

[INFINITE LIGHT]

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

You should stop making excuses for playing like trash. :P It's unfitting of the "greatest player in the world" that got owned by frosty2k.

1) Theres spamming, cheap, and unfair. Being a good player means that you don't have to resort to any of the three in order to win, and overcoming others who use this way is what makes you good.

2) Taking the high road is what makes a player good. Any two bit garbage can mash guard until they KnJ and fire off a rasengan. Doing this does not make you a "good player", and using the most efficent strategy is not always using the most effective, and good players know that. What makes you right is skill, what makes them wrong is ignorance.

3) Stop complaining, start overcoming. Stop taking the easiest road, take the one that improves you. Stop making yourself something your not, become something that you need to be.

The bad players think winning makes you good, the good players know that theres a line between winning and being good at something.

Best player in the world? You are nothing but some two-cent scrub I've fought 250 of in ranked. You are nothing special, you are what thousands have become... and even then I've fought better versions. Stop disillusioning yourself and try to learn the game, and maybe you can rise up from the stage of being just another face.

I'm sorry but the moral high road is just constructions created by bad players who don't know how to overcome a strategy so they label it "cheap"

In reality such things don't exist. outside of knocking the controller out and underhanded things such as that. There is no cheap.


You simply play the game in the most efficient way and you grow stronger and stronger as you begin to defend what you thought was undefendable.


And in this process you grow far more powerful than you could have ever imagined.

Walk the path.

[Frost ninja]

Originally Posted by iJustOwnin

I'm sorry but the moral high road is just constructions created by bad players who don't know how to overcome a strategy so they label it "cheap"

In reality such things don't exist. outside of knocking the controller out and underhanded things such as that. There is no cheap.


You simply play the game in the most efficient way and you grow stronger and stronger as you begin to defend what you thought was undefendable.


And in this process you grow far more powerful than you could have ever imagined.

Walk the path.

Justownin You do realize theres a difference between being good and winning. You can suck ass and still pull a win by some mean or another.

Being the best means you have to be better than everyone. I could win billions of matches, but if I am not good at the game itself then my wins mean nothing.

You aren't bad, you aren't good, you aren't the best.
If nothing else, your the personification of boring.

That being said, I enjoyed the matches and I did like how you adapted to some of my strategies. You are boring, I hate the way you turtle and play the same trick so often... but I did see you've changed it up a little bit. I hope to see you get even better.

Not lying to anyone, I only won 4 to his 13 wins, but its a large step up for me, imo, from my 1 win last time. I'll keep getting better and then maybe I'll do even better next time.

Play again soon and best wishes.
~ Sabbical / Frost Ninja

[tasic]

Originally Posted by iJustOwnin

There are characters that are better than other characters. There are some good strategies in this game. Truly, this game has a tier list with people in high mid and low tier. But that's how all fighting games are.

This game doesn't have anuything that deserves to be banned statuse besides the hinata and pain glitch.



In the end it's simply this. If you want to complain about the game and not get better, go ahead and do it.

But if you want to get better and play the game in it's most natural efficient mannor creating higher and higher levels of understanding, fun, and skill, then I suggest you think about your beliefs.


I am the best, this is true. But nobody has ever become the best thinking about the problem. Always by thinking of the solution.

from what i've seen u abuse the outta minato which probably ranks top 1 or top 2 in my annoying char list. not even mentioning how broken he is...

there are ppl like you who will run around, cast an occasional jutsu/ougi/throw and spam shuriken throws and there are ppl who are TRULY good and they use every aspect of their character, including items melee etc.

what you do is just dumb this game down to a very 2 dimensional game, running around and using 1 or 2 different attacks. how pathetic...

im 100% sure the top ppl on PSN leaderboard that are like 1200-50 in stats would mop the floor with you. always. no exceptions.

edit: yes i complain, because i refuse to be the random repetitive douche that just runs around casting jutsus, abusing awakenings etc. even tho ppl deem those players "good". yes i complain because the game is IMBALANCED, which is outmost THE best reason to complain over it. its not strategy that wins here, its just the pure overpowered aspects of some characters create enormous skill gaps to overcome. i could list parallels with RTS games but u probably dont know any. im far from good at SF4, but u have no such imbalances there. there are diff. tiers, but nothing is so strong that would make me beat daigo f.e. whereas here an actually good/skilled player can lose to some very retarded generic crap.

[VirtualAlex]

Every fighting game is the same. It's a "if you can't beat 'em join 'em" philosophy.

If you think it's easy to win with Minato then pick Minato. If you refuse, then learn to beat Minato or just get much better than minato players.

[INFINITE LIGHT]

Originally Posted by Frost ninja

Justownin You do realize theres a difference between being good and winning. You can suck ass and still pull a win by some mean or another.

Being the best means you have to be better than everyone. I could win billions of matches, but if I am not good at the game itself then my wins mean nothing.

You aren't bad, you aren't good, you aren't the best.
If nothing else, your the personification of boring.

That being said, I enjoyed the matches and I did like how you adapted to some of my strategies. You are boring, I hate the way you turtle and play the same trick so often... but I did see you've changed it up a little bit. I hope to see you get even better.

Not lying to anyone, I only won 4 to his 13 wins, but its a large step up for me, imo, from my 1 win last time. I'll keep getting better and then maybe I'll do even better next time.

Play again soon and best wishes.
~ Sabbical / Frost Ninja

I've been playing since 2004 on xbox live so my friends list is long and i had to clear up some spaces for this game alone. that's why I took you off. Nothing personal or anything. But when your ready to play me again just add me again.

Being the best means winning against everyone Frost Ninja. If being the best at a game doesn't mean that, then it's open to peoples interpetation of who the best person in the game is. The best is the person who wins.

Now from a perspective of you know this being just online and online wins yeah some communities work in the way were online wins, record, and score means nothing and only offline tournaments apply. but this game doesn't have an offline scene like that so online tournaments ran by the community will have to do.

But I'm not the type of person to quit, complain, or lag purposely so my points and score are all legit. With that being said I really don't care about my score like other people do. To me it's accumilation of points that do and mean nothing just like a gamerscore for xbox 360. Sure they are SOME sign post of if a person is good or not. But you really can never tell until you play them.

I hate the fact that because of the way the games system is made people would rather play ranked matches than some good player matches against a good person.

Originally Posted by tasic

from what i've seen u abuse the outta minato which probably ranks top 1 or top 2 in my annoying char list. not even mentioning how broken he is...

there are ppl like you who will run around, cast an occasional jutsu/ougi/throw and spam shuriken throws and there are ppl who are TRULY good and they use every aspect of their character, including items melee etc.

what you do is just dumb this game down to a very 2 dimensional game, running around and using 1 or 2 different attacks. how pathetic...

im 100% sure the top ppl on PSN leaderboard that are like 1200-50 in stats would mop the floor with you. always. no exceptions.

edit: yes i complain, because i refuse to be the random repetitive douche that just runs around casting jutsus, abusing awakenings etc. even tho ppl deem those players "good". yes i complain because the game is IMBALANCED, which is outmost THE best reason to complain over it. its not strategy that wins here, its just the pure overpowered aspects of some characters create enormous skill gaps to overcome. i could list parallels with RTS games but u probably dont know any. im far from good at SF4, but u have no such imbalances there. there are diff. tiers, but nothing is so strong that would make me beat daigo f.e. whereas here an actually good/skilled player can lose to some very retarded generic crap.

You play ssf4 and say you are GOOD at it. I'm not saying I believe you or disbelieve you or any of those things left right up or down. I'm not trying to play ssf4, because I don't play any game besides nuns2 right now.

But if your good in ssf4 you understand the high level mindset. You understand that people use to say the same thing 10 or 20 years ago about street fighter characters in their strategy and had the same exact view on street fighter than they would have on other games because back then street fighter was not exalted to be the end all be all of fighting games.

People would call some strategies cheap and overpowered while others would just simply play the game in the most efficient way and do what works to the highest extent. Then what happened was all the good players got together and decided that this would be the belief system. That cheap would not exist. that playing the game in the way it was designed to be played is the way to do.

You are from the street fighter community so you should understand this. This is what we are doing, we are simply ploaying the game in its most efficient mannor. Just like all street fighter players do. Street fighter players don't limit themselves by what they can or cannot do on some illusionary idea of "cheap" and "spam". They simply play as hard as they can with the strategies they have.

Now they second thing your saying about how this game is horribly unbalanced and that the tiers play a bigger role in this game. And that skill has not a big factor in this game like it does in street fighter.

Now that belief is common even amongst good street fighter players for other games that donot fall within the street fighter realm.

It takes skill to do everything good sir. This game has depth, and it has mix ups, set ups, and mind game just as much as street fighter has. it just has it in a different way. don't try to see street fighter in this game, simply try to see the game as it is.


As far as the tier list goes in street fighter there are 7/3 match ups. both rufis and zangief have 7/3 match ups against dhalsim. Their are bad matchups in every single street fighter game. And you will hear talk about how at evo play for super turbo how some characters simply can't beat other characters yet the japanese play with them anyway.


In this respect the game is balanced just like any other game. there are low tier, mid, and high tier characteres. and the gap between the high, low, and mid tier are not that big. It is very possible to win with whoever you are saying.

People make a dangerous mistake about fighting games they don't truly understand. They make judgements and statements like this before they truly get good at it and see where the true mindgame ends and begins in it.



So in the end I say that in ssf4 you play the game in the most efficent mannor possible, then so should you in nuns2.

[Pain_man_who_became_god]

meh, spamming is easy to dodge. i feel like i win when i play better. theres plenty of times i made a stupid move that if i hadnt made i would have won. anyone can win in storm 2, ive seen people im miles above take me with repeated moves but i win and people disconnect. disconnecting is the one true thing i dont like. its so poony