Bleach - why it isnt a great series

[Skrall]

The Downfall Of Bleach Manga
(Yeah! Now this is a really title! Nothing like: Bleach - Why isnt a great series!)

Many of you are saying that Bleach manga is better than Naruto manga. I even heard from a few members that its even better that One Piece manga. But is it really? The answer is.......no, it isnt. Why? Let me explain:

Bleach is sinking quickly but apperantly Kubo doesnt realize that. He thinks that if he continues doing what hes doing, Bleach will always be able to compete with its rivals and be one of the top manga in business. But what is Kubo really doing wrong?

The Manga Design:

Well for starters Kubo when drawing often uses this big huge panels. Apparently he never realized that using huge panels are pretty useless unless a manga writer wants to emphasize an important scene. It can be used in one, two mawbe three scenes on the same chapter but if its used more than that, the chapter will be ruined. Besides if Kubo could control the space of the paper that he has more efficiently not only the Bleach series (both manga and anime) would be way more ahead.

Speaking in space I have a question: Why does Kubo always put the title of a chapter on a big black rectangle instead on a corner where its manga writer rivals put in?

Moving on: Whats the deal ALWAYS ending a Bleach chapter putting the fans in a position "Whats going to happen next?" or "Dont end it! I was reading the good part!"? As far as Im concern nobody likes that. Take One Piece chapter 602 as an example: the capter ended with Luffy saying "We are going to Fisherman Island!" Simple or is it to hard to Kubo to understand?

A lot of people say that Bleach art is great and one of the best arts out there in the manga industry. IF I wasn't an artist myself I would agree with you, but sadly, since I'm an artist myself, I don't. I'm not saying the art itself overall is bad, but I'm also not saying it I ever saw. Bleach manga is overdone! It contains to much detail and it has lost it's personality. Keep plain and simple. Add just a few details. But don't over do it.

Now that youve heard this part of the story, lets move for the real important aspects!

The Plot and the Characters:

But what really bothers me the most is the fact that the storyplot is unorganised and it doesnt have a sense of direction: the fight with Aizen and his servents began years ago and it only ended recently (in the manga). The overall arc (since the apperance of the Arrancar to Aizens defeat) took ages: about 4-5 years. It doesnt really matter if the fights are great, if the plot is going nowhere. Speaking on battles and time management: how come the batlle with the Espada took so many episodes and the battle with Tosen only took two episodes (in the series)? 2 episodes = 5 or 6 manga chapters. Im guessing the battle against Aizen will be the same.

Than we move on to the characters themselves, and I would like to talk about one character in particular. Guess who? Ichigo Kurosaki. In a away I like him: he can be firm and consisted, he also possesses knowledge being able to show some experience from his battles, however most of the times, when overcome by an enemys power, he despairs and becomes insecure, and when this happen he tendes to lose his battles. Ichigo is very possible the main character with more defeats than more victorys that I know. If you think about it this also contributes for the downfall of the plot:

An enemy appears => The main character is overpower by him/she (or even it) => The main character despairs and becomes vulnerable => The main character gets a boost of power and defeats his enemy => the main character reflection afterwards => An enemy appears....
And this goes on and on and on.

Aizen monologues: Why? I keep asking myself why. Aizen theories arent helping Bleach progreding, but since he wont appear anymore (hopefully) I dont have anything to say about it. Even Ichigo said he was bored with Aizen theories.

I think its absurd the amount of power Ichigo acquired from the Final Getsuga Tensho, I was exepecting him to grow a little stronger to be able to fight with Aizen in equal terms not strong like stronger than the real villain himself. But I found even more ridiculous, how much time it took Ichigo to figure it out how to acquire it, "...by accepting your blade. Thats how you acquire the FGT." I mean how much time does it take to obtain it? Apperantly a really long time, so long that even Ichigos hair grows bigger.

The Background of the Characters is a little bit confused, if you ask me. When I think about "background", "history" and "characters", I think in one character in particular: Grimmjow! We only know half about his story. What happened to him anyway: Did he died? Hes he still unconscious (after 17 months)? This is what really bothers me. When you start a flashback, you end it. Be good or be bad, you end it! Otherwise you make people think (I speak for myself) that the manga is no good.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Congrats on being one of the only unbiased people here that isn't mentally retarded. Rep for you.

[Yori]

The reason the whole Aizen arc took a long time is because Aizen pretty much was the real first villain of Bleach. When Aizen first turned Kubo made Aizen look like a God compared to everyone else in bleach. So he had to work and build other characters that he can possibly carry on with after Aizen is gone. When looking back on it, I really like the Aizen Arc. If he would of rushed through that the Espada and arrancars probably wouldn't exist in bleach.

Like Naruto, how long did it take for oro to finally get his? A while, probably even longer than Aizen. Cliff Hangers - Naruto has way more than bleach. Especially when it comes to Madara and Kabuto. The 6th coffin scene, Izanagi, EMS, 10 tails, Rikudo, the list goes on and on. So you can't say Bleach has more. I read both and Naruto takes that by far.

When building on a God like villain, Kubo has to plan his ending carefully, but still making sure Ichigo got his spotlight. Sounds simple but I know it wasn't. Plus the Aizen arc opened and showed pasts of the most mysterious characters in bleach. For example Gin. The chapters where Gin turned on Aizen was overall my favorite in the series and I applaud Kubo for it. He made sure before Gin died we know why he did what he did, and showed his Bankai.

This new arc I admit is slow, but give it time. He probably is still planning the arc after this one which should be bigger than the one now. OP is better than both but when is comes down to Bleach and Naruto both of these manga are no different when it comes to sticking to the plot. Kubo did a great job starting and finishing the Aizen Arc.

[Skrall]

Originally Posted by Yori

The reason the whole Aizen arc took a long time is because Aizen pretty much was the real first villain of Bleach. When Aizen first turned Kubo made Aizen look like a God compared to everyone else in bleach. So he had to work and build other characters that he can possibly carry on with after Aizen is gone. When looking back on it, I really like the Aizen Arc. If he would of rushed through that the Espada and arrancars probably wouldn't exist in bleach.
Yes, Aizen was the real first villain and to prove that he, compared to the other villains, should had a more clear position. A little bit more of screen time compared to the Espada and Arrancar. Im not saying that he hadnt screentime, Im saying that other villains in Bleach had morre than he did.

Like Naruto, how long did it take for oro to finally get his? A while, probably even longer than Aizen. Cliff Hangers - Naruto has way more than bleach. Especially when it comes to Madara and Kabuto. The 6th coffin scene, Izanagi, EMS, 10 tails, Rikudo, the list goes on and on. So you can't say Bleach has more. I read both and Naruto takes that by far.
Sorry but I disagree. You havent quite understood. Those moments were on different chapters besides they were important since they are moments of huge epicness. If you open a Bleach chapter and a Naruto one too, you will noticed that the panels are gigantic and sometimes it occupes a whole page for unecessary explosions. Kubo is to preocupate with demonstring the characters insane strenght instead of managing the space he has to draw.

When building on a God like villain, Kubo has to plan his ending carefully, but still making sure Ichigo got his spotlight. Sounds simple but I know it wasn't. Plus the Aizen arc opened and showed pasts of the most mysterious characters in bleach. For example Gin. The chapters where Gin turned on Aizen was overall my favorite in the series and I applaud Kubo for it. He made sure before Gin died we know why he did what he did, and showed his Bankai.
Its true but he also needs to have in consideration hes readers. The more work he has a manga writer does to get it right, the less work we the readers have to do. And vice-versa. If he slacks, it will be the readers who have to do the bulk of the work - or perhaps not: we may simply view the whole thing as a discourtesy, and give it up as a bad job. Its true that the Aizen Arc opened and showed pasts of some characters of Bleach but others like Grimmjow remain unclear: Kubo opened the past and never closed it since then

This new arc I admit is slow, but give it time. He probably is still planning the arc after this one which should be bigger than the one now. OP is better than both but when is comes down to Bleach and Naruto both of these manga are no different when it comes to sticking to the plot. Kubo did a great job starting and finishing the Aizen Arc.

Answers are in blue.

[MysticGoten]

Originally Posted by Skrall

Moving on: Whats the deal ending a Bleach chapter putting the fans in a position "Whats going to happen next?" or "Dont end it! I was reading the good part!"? As far as Im concern nobody likes that.

Out of all this rant, this part is bugging the hell out of me.
It's what marketing is.
You say, "Oh, you like this?" And end it right when the good thing is about to happen.
Why? So people will read the manga next week.
Or so they'll buy the full product. Whatever it is.

EDIT: And, this is a pretty bad rant. Why? Because you're bashing Bleach for the wrong reasons. I can think of a bunch of other reasons why Bleach is bad that are completely relevant to it being good or bad, versus what you said. Space in the page? Chapter endings? That last part was the closest to being relevant to it at all. These aspects don't define a good or bad series.
Talk about its...Yeah, maybe I'll use the ones I can think of to make one of my own.

[Skrall]

I aslo have other reasons to dislike Bleach: Ichigo being a terrible main character, certain characters attitudes and actions and dont let me start with Aizens monologues! If I talk about that I would never stopped writing.


P.S: About the part that bothers you:

You read a Bleach chapter => a question about the chapter will come up to your mind => This question will only be answered in the next chapter => You read next chapter your question will be answered but at the same time it rises a new question.

This cicle occurs over and over again thats why its so disturbing an unconclude ending.

[MysticGoten]

Then say so in the OP.
Characters actions and attitudes also really aren't ways to judge the series.
Once again, I can think of several.

[Skrall]

In OP yes in Bleach no. Havent you read my first post?
The constantly doubts of the main character ruins slowly the series.
And since you can think take of several would you mind sharing youre thoughts?

[MysticGoten]

In a bit, typing, bleh.

[Skrall]

Instead of arguing about having different reasons for disliking Bleach why dont you and I try to find the same reasons why we dont appreciate Bleach much as the other anime series? Or you could just keep typing and I keep waiting. Come on its taking forever.

[MysticGoten]

I haven't been typing. :P

Uninteresting villians, uninteresting heroes, an uncaptivating story. However, Bleach really isn't all that bad. It's still much better than average. The slow story is something I love about the series.

[deidara330]

Originally Posted by Skrall

Many of you are saying that Bleach manga is better than Naruto manga. I even heard from a few members that its even better that One Piece manga. But is it really? The answer is.......no, it isnt. Why? Let me explain:

Bleach is sinking quickly but apperantly Kubo doesnt realize that. He thinks that if he continues doing what hes doing, Bleach will always be able to compete with its rivals and be one of the top manga in business. But what is Kubo really doing wrong?

Well for starters Kubo when drawing often uses this big huge panels. Apparently he never realized that using huge panels are pretty useless unless a manga writer wants to emphasize an important scene. It can be used in one, two mawbe three scenes on the same chapter but if its used more than that, the chapter will be ruined. Besides if Kubo could control the space of the paper that he has more efficiently not only the Bleach series (both manga and anime) would be way more ahead.

Speaking in space I have a question: Why does Kubo always put the title of a chapter on a big black rectangle instead on a corner where its manga writer rivals put in?

Moving on: Whats the deal ending a Bleach chapter putting the fans in a position "Whats going to happen next?" or "Dont end it! I was reading the good part!"? As far as Im concern nobody likes that. Take One Piece chapter 602 as an example: the capter ended with Luffy saying "We are going to Fisherman Island!" Simple or is it to hard to Kubo to understand?

But what really bothers me the most is the fact that the storyplot is unorganised and it doesnt have a sense of direction: the fight with Aizen and his servents began years ago and it only ended recently (in the manga). The overall arc (since the apperance of the Arrancar to Aizens defeat) took ages: about 4-5 years. It doesnt really matter if the fights are great, if the plot is going nowhere. Speaking on battles and time management: how come the batlle with the Espada took so many episodes and the battle with Tosen only took two episodes (in the series)? 2 episodes = 5 or 6 manga chapters. Im guessing the battle against Aizen will be the same.

Conlusion:

Kubo should have thought these really important aspects before launching Bleach, otherwise it is not worth launching.

First I'm going to appologize in advance for the long-ass paragraphs. I suffer from WoTS (Wall of Text Syndrome) where I tend to go on and on about details instead of getting straight to the point.

Spoiler:

No offense, but it seems as though you don't quite understand Kubo's style of manga. The three most popular manga, Naruto, Bleach, and One Piece, all have their own unique styles of drawing and storylines. If you're saying that Bleach should be like the stylings of Naruto and One Piece, you're saying (in a sense) that all manga should have a specific, set style. In my opinion, Bleach has a uniqueness from Naruto and One Piece, and it shouldn't become more like them. Kubo needs to stay with the style that works for him, because that's what has made Bleach so popular. Even if all the people who read Bleach hated it, it would not change the fact that they continued to read it. You've clearly read all the way to where the current manga is now, despite going out of your way to state that it's a bad series. Now, there are many logical reasons for this. Not to make assumptions, but I think yours would be that you can't truly hate a story or manga or have a good disliking for it unless you've both read it and understood it. It's why I read all 4 Twilight books, despite hating the series. So I can sympathize with people like that. However, I would still like to respectfully disagree with your opinion of the Bleach manga.

I agree with you when you say big panels are useless unless you want to emphasize an important scene. However, I disagree with you when you say Kubo doesn't realize this. If you take a look at the Resureccion of almost every Espada, each of them have recieved a panel that took up the space of two pages. Now, after this, I can't see why you would say that Kubo doesn't understand the correlation between panel size and emphasis, unless you simply hadn't noticed. The Espada are hyped early on from the beginning of the Arrancar Arc as the ten most powerful Arrancar in Aizen's entire army. Resureccion releases the true form and power of an Arrancar, so an Espada's Resureccion has to be given more emphasis than that of a normal Arrancar. Revealing their true form means revealing their true power, and revealing their true power leads to how they obtained their status as part of the Espada. That's an important aspect of the plot and of the Bleach manga itself, so naturally they have to be given emphasis. Plus, Kubo, as an artist, tends to put large emphasis on drawings or big, flashy moves. If you take a look at the Bleach series, it's practically set up that way. Soul Reapers have a first and second sword release, and Arrancar have a Resureccion. Just from this, it can be inferred that Kubo loves to design and draw these releases and showcase them. It could easily be said that manga is a form of art, and in museums and such, art is showcased. Kubo does the same thing with his designs and drawings, putting emphasis on them and detailing them. He puts more effort and emphasis on Espada's Resureccion and on Bankai because they're more important to the plot, and because they deserve better designs. Despite all this, from my experience Kubo is rarely, if ever, recognized as a good artist. Not to say people think he's a bad artist, but they either seem to not recognize or not put attention to the importance of his artwork. The artwork itself is a huge part of the Bleach manga, and in fact, I think the manga is better than the anime because of it.

I disagree with your statement that using large panels too much will ruin the effect. As I stated before, the artwork is a huge part of Bleach, from beginning to end. It's practically more focused on the artwork than the plot. Kubo often has long fights in the manga with huge panels because he wants to entertain the readers with artistic and creative designs. The reason I haven't complained about Ichigo's fights with Grimmjow or Ulquiorra being ten chapters in the manga is because the moves were entertaining, and the action and dialogue was interesting. I think that part of the reason he gave Ulquiorra two Resureccion in the story is because Ulquiorra was such a huge part of the story and such an important villain that he deserved two releases, and because Kubo thought that such a character would be made an even better villain with two releases as well as make it enjoyable for him to draw. As an artist, I suspect Kubo simply likes to draw and design more for characters more important to the story as a preference. That's what the manga shows, because usually the most plot important characters are the ones who get the best fights. The plot and the artwork seem to suplement each other, actually. The most plot-important fights and characters recieve the best artwork, while the most well-drawn and designed characters and attacks have the most relevance to the plot. Kubo is also excellent with drawing facial expressions. I can recall when Kubo drew the chapter in which Toshiro found out he'd stabbed Hinamori. The character's facial expressions were excellently drawn, so much so that it was intense just to read. In that regard, the artwork supplemented the plot. The artwork adds to the effect of the plot just as much as the plot increases the effect of the artwork. Although, for the majority of Bleach, I would say Kubo focuses somewhat more on the artwork than on the plot. For Naruto, I would say it focuses more on the plot than on the artwork. For One Piece, I would say it has just as much focus on artwork as it does plot, and it has its own unique blend, which would probably explain why so many people find it to be a great manga.

Kubo probably puts chapter titles in big, large, black rectangles because he likes giving chapters catchy titles and wants to put emphasis on the titles as well. If you look at Bleach in contrast to Naruto, Naruto's chapter titles have a lot to do with the plot, where Bleach's could be more acquainted with song titles than chapter titles in a manga. Chapters like "Jugulators", "Deicide", "End of Hypnosis", and "The Lust" are a huge contrast to "Kabuto's Scheme", " Kumogakure VS Team Hawk", "Shikamaru's Genius", and others. I haven't paid much attention to One Piece chapter titles, because I don't read it much anymore, although I did use to read it a lot.

From the way you talk, you don't seem to understand that Kubo purposefully creates a position at the end of the chapter that leaves you wondering what will happen next, and compels you to read more. It's a cliffhanger, when you need to continue reading the story to find out what happens. It also creates suspense to a lesser extent, which is the basis of "What will happen next"? I, personally, enjoy that part of Bleach. I don't really know anyone who specifically loathes cliffhangers and suspense, and in fact I haven't seen criticisms of Bleach condemning its use of cliffhangers until you made yours. I don't think Oda uses suspense because he prefers to keep the story adventurous and have a nice, fun flow to it. Cliffhangers tend to have a different feel than that.

Well, like I said earlier, Bleach focuses a little more on the artwork, fighting, and entertainment than the plot. Although he did do a good job with parts of the Arrancar Arc in terms of plot, like Ichigo's inner hollow, Aaroniero posing as Kaien, and most especially the Visoreds backstory. If you read Bleach from beginning to end rather than following it as a weekly manga, the plot would actually be more involved than it seems simply going from week to week without progress on the fight against Aizen. Personally, I think part of creating the Arrancar Arc was so he could play around with designs for new characters and for Resureccion, as well as the story. In Ikkaku's fight with Edrad, he added more to Ikkaku's character and had creative designs for Ikkaku's Bankai and Edrad's Resureccion, even though Edrad's character didn't go too much in depth, and the plot didn't advance much.

[UltimatePuppetMaster48]

Originally Posted by Skrall

Many of you are saying that Bleach manga is better than Naruto manga. I even heard from a few members that its even better that One Piece manga. But is it really? The answer is.......no, it isnt. Why? Let me explain:

Bleach is sinking quickly but apperantly Kubo doesnt realize that. He thinks that if he continues doing what hes doing, Bleach will always be able to compete with its rivals and be one of the top manga in business. But what is Kubo really doing wrong?

Well for starters Kubo when drawing often uses this big huge panels. Apparently he never realized that using huge panels are pretty useless unless a manga writer wants to emphasize an important scene. It can be used in one, two mawbe three scenes on the same chapter but if its used more than that, the chapter will be ruined. Besides if Kubo could control the space of the paper that he has more efficiently not only the Bleach series (both manga and anime) would be way more ahead.


Speaking in space I have a question: Why does Kubo always put the title of a chapter on a big black rectangle instead on a corner where its manga writer rivals put in?


Moving on: Whats the deal ending a Bleach chapter putting the fans in a position "Whats going to happen next?" or "Dont end it! I was reading the good part!"? As far as Im concern nobody likes that. Take One Piece chapter 602 as an example: the capter ended with Luffy saying "We are going to Fisherman Island!" Simple or is it to hard to Kubo to understand?


But what really bothers me the most is the fact that the storyplot is unorganised and it doesnt have a sense of direction: the fight with Aizen and his servents began years ago and it only ended recently (in the manga). The overall arc (since the apperance of the Arrancar to Aizens defeat) took ages: about 4-5 years. It doesnt really matter if the fights are great, if the plot is going nowhere. Speaking on battles and time management: how come the batlle with the Espada took so many episodes and the battle with Tosen only took two episodes (in the series)? 2 episodes = 5 or 6 manga chapters. Im guessing the battle against Aizen will be the same.


Conlusion:

Kubo should have thought these really important aspects before launching Bleach, otherwise it is not worth launching.

dude you are so right

[Taker369]

Originally Posted by UltimatePuppetMaster48

dude you are so right

if you hate it so much why read the dam thing just stop reading it and go back to one piece then all you do is compare it to naruto and one piece in my honest opinon i like bleach best i dont care if i get flamed for my opinon .

[Skrall]

First of all, congratulations not only for the long well-structured post but also for bing able to identify the kind of person I am by only seing one post. Im impressed. However you are wrong assuming that I think Bleach is a bad series otherwise I wouldnt bother creating this topic.

Second of all, you are giving me a huge trouble formulating an answer even though you havent asked a question but you understand what I mean, dont you? Its hard to criticize a person but it even harder criticizing a person who is criticizing.

Im not bad-mouthing Kubo style. Its true that each writer has its unique style of doing their stuff. Just like you, I also like it but it seems he hasnt totally find his own style that maybe one of the reason he reflects that in the paper but thats only an assumption.

Maybe I spoke to soon when I said Kubo doesnt realize when using huge panel in scenes unless they are important but I guess you also did the same. I cant prove that Kubo doesnt realize it but I dont think you cant too, can you?
I said that the big panels are more appropriate to emphasize an important scene and you were trying to prove me wrong by giving an Espada Ressurection as an example but you only proved me right: isnt an Espada Ressurection an important scene? Yes, it is. not only an Espada Ressurection but a Bankai, the appearence of a new character, a kido Spell as well. But charecters reactions are worthless: remeber when Gin told Ichigo his sword could scretch 13Km long in his Bankai form. Why did that scene occuped a page or so? Its what Im telling you using for important scenes is one thing using for the expressions of the characters is an other. As far as Im concern I never spoke of Kubo artwork and I never criticized but I heard from several people that is drawings are overdone. He may be one of those artists who are unsatisfied with the finally product. But thats what I heard.

Its true that Naruto titles arent as sophisticated as the Bleach ones still I doubt that Kishimoto will put the beginning of war 1 all the way down to the beginning of war part 23, where the war its finally over, in black rectangles.


Im not saying that Kubo souldnt leave his manga with a bit of suspense. Im saying that he needs to know when using it properly. Those moments are only used when a fight or the story itself its reaching its climax (and not at the beginnig of a new arc).


If you are a child and when you start reading or watching a new anime you tend to be more focused on kind of powers that the characters have. However if you are a more adult person you will tend to be more focused on the general: the storyline, the main character devolpment over the entire series and not only on kind of powers the characters have. Youll be judging the entire series. The storyline and its pogression, as well as the entertainment, then shall assume an extremly important role compared to the other aspects like the artwork and the fighting.

[MysticGoten]

Least I'm not the only one who writes blocks of text.

[Taker369]

naruto doesnt give there side characters any screen time in instead we have to deal with sakura being the main female lead no offense to her fans rukia and orhime dont sit down and cry throughout the series also characters like neji, ino, lee, shino, tenten, and many more dont get screen time when characters in bleach do like chad , orhime, rukia, the sqaud captains , renji, and many more get actuall lines and screen time

[Skrall]

The only thing that Orihime does in an episode is to repeat the same word over and over again as much as she can "Kurosaki-Kun".

[MysticGoten]

And little grunts!

[Taker369]

Originally Posted by Skrall

The only thing that Orihime does in an episode is to repeat the same word over and over again as much as she can "Kurosaki-Kun".

her healing powers are twice as more effective then sakura,s or tsunades and she actually helps move the plot along