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Old 09-11-2010, 05:11 PM   #1
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Default The Big Wager: Tobi's True Identity Contest.

So we see at least 3 new Tobi = X topics a day. It's the biggest mystery in the Narutoverse.

So here's the deal. Post your final predictions about Tobi's identity here, in each of your posts. Not just "Tobi is Obito lolduh". Nope, I want a detailed explanation with things to back up your theory.

If you've made a topic about it, copy and paste your post to here if need be.


But eventually, we'll be able to check this topic, and decide "WHO WAS REALLY RIGHT". Perhaps the person who convinces the most people with their Madara identity, might even get a Custom Title along the lines of "Knew Madara When You Didnt" or something less corny.

Last edited by TheBlackChidori; 09-24-2010 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 09-11-2010, 05:14 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

I love this thread so much... I know I'm really pushy about Tobi being Madara and I have so many damn threads about it. I think most of the Tobi = Madara threads are mine.


Tobi is Madara

Madara is over 100 years old while Obtio would only be in his mid 30's right now

The Tablet that is in the Uchiha Temple thing. Only very few people knew about. They were only Uchiha's and very high up in the clan. Madara and Itachi said that only 3 known (I think) people were able to read it. It's sad that 1st you'll need the Basic 3 Toma sharingan, then the MS, then the EMS, and the Rinnegan. The tablet explains all of what Rikudo went through and the Juubi. When the Uchiha found out how to get the EMS only a very few knew about the Tablet. And Assuming that the Tablet gives more information As you get higher on the Sharigan chart, Madara is the only one that knows about the Juubi and Rikudo's secrets Original Naruto right before Sasuke left the Village

He did say he was only a shell of him old self; so of cores he is going to be weaker, so did Itachi ______ and chapter 401

Madara was the clan leader and an Anbu. As the clan leader you know everything about the Uchiha's, what the Village thinks of you, and your plans. Madara seems to know every last detail about them and he has flash backs that only he could have due to his clan position as the leader chapter 396 page 14 through chapter 401

When Izuna gave his MS to Madara everyone was saying how he stole it from him; along with that, to gain the EMS you need someone else MS. As Madara said that his brother willing gave it to him. That said, him and his brother was extremely strong; so clearly it would be hard to steal his brother's eye. Madara said that he loved his brother dearly and when ever someone brings him up he gets ticked.

It has been shown multiple times, Madara with his ANBU mask. And I don't think anyone would try to seal the ANBU, Leader of the Uchiha's clan mask.

It was said that the 1st and Madara founded Konha (the statues at the Final Valley proves that). Now Madara was saying that him and the 1st had an long battle over who would be the Hokage of the new land. Now while all of the senju's and uchiha fighting, it is impossible to try to say what Madara said about the fight, unless you wanted to die and not pay any attention to your fight. chapter 398 page 16-19 and chapter 399 page 2

Madara was explaining the hate between the two clans and how the leaders of the clan were trying to make a peace agreement. They treaty they were making was probably top secret at the time; and until they made the agreement not a word was shed of that so there wouldn't be any confusion. Now Madara was the clan leader so of cores he knows all of this. Anyone else, they wouldn't know of this

Itachi set it when Sasuke see's Madara's sharinagn his ammy would go off. Guess what, it went off.
chapter 397

All of the flash backs the contain new info about Madara has been consistent with his current self

Only 7 people knew of what happened when Itachi killed his clan. Danzou, the 2 elders, Sasuke, Itachi, and the 3rd. Madara told Sasuke what happened, it matched up to what Itachi told him. chapter 398

There is no way Madara can have his wear house of eye's if he wasn't there to help Itachi kill the clan. The only people that were going to kill the clan was Itachi and Madara. No one else was there to kill them. Madara has 108 sharingan he say's he likes to stalk up on them and there is no way he could of gotten all of them unless he was there the nigh him and Itachi killed the clan

By Itachi making it so Sasuke's ammy goes off when he see's Madara's sharingan. Is saying that Itachi knew he was still alive. last few pages of chapter 396 and chapter 397 page 8

Kisame knew something about Madara that he didn't want anyone to know. If Madara was dead he wouldn't have killed him self to protect that secret. Chapter 507

When Tsunade was informed 'A mask man is behind all of this. We think it might be Madara' She wasn't surprised it was like she also knew he was alive The Pain arc

Only 3 people have a space time jutsu. Minato, Madara and the 2nd. Chapter 500 I think

Madara had a flash back explaining the fight he had with the 1st. and he had the Kyuubi with him too. What he said corresponds to what Kushina was telling Naruto about how Minato and her feel in love (the part were her sister married the 1st and she was the Kyuubi's host, and then she had died when Madara took the Kyuubi.) chapter 399

Tobi clearly knew everything about Madara, when Madara him self was of said to have been forgotten and anything about him was gone/disappeared. chapter 399

It was shown and confirmed that Izuna is dead. chapter 399

Madara's Sharingan shield thing he had in the last page (511), proves he is Madara (unless he stole it).He had that throw out 99% of his flash backs.

When Madara took off his mask to show Kisame his face. Kisame knew he was Madara Chapter 404

When he said he faked his death he wasn't lying, because when Itachi told Sasuke he had help killing the clan and named Madara. Then later when Madara got Sasuke he told Sasuke he was the one that helped Itachi. So Madara never did die when he death was said to of had happened. Though anything after that is a guess.

As for the whole one eye hole in mask thing. When Madara broke the stop of his mask, his Izangai instantly activated. So in other words you can assume he had it hid so it wouldn't go on. So like Kakashi MS.

chapter 545 page 6 panel 1 and 2 Tsunade said he was imortal
  • Madara got his MS the same age Obito got his 2 toma Sharingan
  • Itachi gave Sasuke the Ammy. Itachi set it too when Sasuke see Madara's sharingan it would go off. And well it went off
  • Minato said Obito is dead and there is no hope for helping him no matter what
  • Rin agreed with Minato. And well she's a medic
  • Kakashi knows his dead. he saw Obito get crushed.
  • All the elders, 3rd Hokage, and Itachi knew Madara is alive.
  • All the elders and 3rd Hokage sent Madara to help Itachi finish off the job
  • When Minato fount the the Kyuubi Minato said a "Masked Man" was controlling the Kyuubi. That said the 3rd knew that Madara was alive, and I am sure Minato knew too.
  • All the stuff Madara knew Obito has no clue off.
  • Madara is well over 100 Obito will be in his early 30's right now
  • Madara and Obito was ALIVE at the same Time at one point
  • Kisame knows Madara is Madara
  • Kabuto knows Madara is Madara
  • And if there is any Elders left they know Madara is Madara
  • Even Tsunade knows that Madara is Madara. I mean when she was told that the 'masked man' might be Madara she wasn't so surprized about it. *just a ASSUMING*
  • Only Madara knows about the true of his MS, every one thinks that Madara stole it.
  • Madara read the table Obito has can't even if he wanted too. *you need at lest a 3 toma sharingan Obito juts got his 2 Toma sharingan
  • Madara knows about the Senjuu and all the good stuff. Only about 3 people knew about


Tobi is non-other than Madara links

http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73575
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53871
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63375
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65068
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75001
LINK
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Last edited by zerosameri; 10-18-2011 at 03:28 PM. Reason: still is adding MORE lol
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Old 09-11-2010, 05:31 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

I think behind tobi's mask is madara's brother izuna because there have been threads that say why didn't the uchiha just swap eyes with each other to gain an ems but what if madara and izuna did swap eyes with each other but izuna didn't get an ems he ended up with a regular sharingan instead or an ms without the drawback of going blind instead of wanting an ems and the story sasuke was told about izuna dieing was just another lie told. also i know that there are some that would say why didn't izuna end up with an ems like madara for taking his brothers well i think it is because there can only be one person in each family that can inherit an ems and madara took izuna's eyes first. that is how i think is pretending to be tobi because the only way i can see madara being tobi is because of izanagi.
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Old 09-11-2010, 05:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

I say it is Madara brother too. He seems like the most likely one. It would be similiar to the Itachi sasuke ordeal. His whole purpose would be to get revenge for his brother Madara. Obito sounds to left field. Madara being Madara seems unlikely if he was him he wouldnt need a mask. Also Kishi like twists.

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Old 09-11-2010, 06:04 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

There's been a lot of questioning lately as to whether Madara is really Madara. (Clearly, based on this thread. xD) This theory is based on FACTS given inside the manga. I believe that he IS indeed Madara (This is the same as asking, "Is Naruto really Naruto?" Yes he is. Regardless of whatever you say, only a liberal moron would think that Naruto isn't Naruto, right?) , though I suspect it may not be his real body (it's not his real arm, and wasn't even when he ripped it off if you looked at what it was composed of. Perhaps the body is Obito's. Kinda like Orochimaru does, perhaps he can use the same jutsu.). There's a strong possibility that he is simply using another body; this doesn't mean that Tobi isn't Madara.

And as I will explain, the possiblity of Kabuto having Madara's real body in the casket (or one modified by Edo Tensei) doesn't mean that Tobi isn't Madara either. He could easily be Madara. Again, Orochimaru is still Orochimaru isn't he? He switched bodies, right?

A Few Manga Facts

Tobi knew the ENTIRE story behind Madara, and this was a story that supposedly had been forgotten (Sasuke himself had never even heard of Madara, as he told the Kyuubi). All that people seemed to know about him was the basic battle, and even that was something few knew of, while Tobi knew about Madara's childhood. That's not to say that Tobi mad eup the story, but it explained a lot, and the manga is pretty much based on it, so I'll go with the assumption that Tobi is Madara on that note. Can we agree on that?

Itachi stated that Madara was still alive, and the protection jutsu he placed on Sasuke was meant to activate when he came in contact with Madara, (The one that casted Amaterasu on Madara when he tried to talk to Sasuke right after Itachi Vs. Sasuke) it activated when Tobi came near him, so unless Itachi was completely incompetent, Tobi = Madara. Itachi hasn't yet been proven wrong with anything else (Because he's a damn genius.) , and considering his intelligence and forethought, it's unlikely he was that wrong about someone. Especially something as big as the Madara case.

Kabuto said he went by Madara these days likely because the last time he saw Tobi was through the Akatsuki (he had interactions with Sasori), where he WAS Tobi.

Tobi already revealed himself to be Madara. He said it to Kisame, his supposed closet ally. (Although, I'm questioning if he told him something later which is why Kisame bit his tongue.) Everyone believes he is Madara. Why wouldn't he be? It's unlikely that he will turn around and reveal himself to be somebody completely different, just from a flat-out basis.

If Tobi = Madara, then there is another immensely powerful shinobi running around who is not only another Uchiha, but ISN'T Madara. Because of how much Madara has been hyped in the series, it's inevitable that he will appear soon if Tobi = Madara, and that's a lot of major villains all of a sudden, especially if you're going to introduce another one so late in the game. Kishi said that Naruto would end in about 2 years, right? Akatsuki was disposed of and still is being disposed of, and it's been, what, 7 years? More? Hell, that means we're looking at 7 more years. Kishi can't do that, he wouldn't. Just more proof of my point.

As will explain further below, Tobi can still be Madara even without Madara's real body. Orochimaru was always Orochimaru, even though throughout the entire series he was using others' bodies. (As mentioned before.)

Madara replying "Wise guy" to Kabuto saying he is truly in a league of his own isn't Madara saying he is isn't Madara. He just got screwed over and forced into doing something he didn't want to do. Ever happen to you? Having Kabuto say he is in a league of his own immediately after that isn't something he'd take easily.

The Sixth Casket
* I am using multiple translations for my reasoning here (Other manga sites. I'd name them, but they're not allowed here.)

In regards to the sixth casket, just because Kabuto has a trump card that is a body doesn't mean Tobi isn't really Madara. Perhaps Orochimaru has been ressurected, or he got rid of Oro (From his body) and then ressurected him, that's to say that that's possible though. It could be Madara's real body, as it's very likely he isn't using his real one right now (which would explain Itachi's comment about him being only a shell of his former self or something along those lines. Depends on the translation, I guess.). Kabuto claimed to have perfected the Edo Tensei, which means his version probably has more to it than that which we've seen previously. Kabuto may have managed to get ahold of Madara's real body despite the length of time that has passed, yes, but what I suspect is that he managed to draw in some of Madara's power/soul/spirit/chakra into a body and therefore Madara is indeed in the sixth coffin WHILE STILL BEING ALIVE. This is something that would shock Madara, something outside the Edo Tensei he knows, something that would 'scare' him. This statement was made to prove that Madara would be afraid of his real body being revealed because HE IS MADARA.

Because Madara IS only a shell of his former self, he is clearly lacking some of his original power. That missing power may be exactly what Kabuto used to bring Madara's body back in the sixth coffin, as Madara has been lacking that power for some time and Kabuto may have gained access to it through perfecting the Edo Tensei. THAT would exactly explain why Madara was so angered by the situation, as it would mean that Kabuto not only severely violated him, but that Kabuto is now in possession of some his power. It would also be something he'd be willing to trade Sasuke for, as not only could he regain his full powers, but he would ensure that Kabuto couldn't use them himself. This is another way Sasuke could be double-crossed.

If Kabuto had a full-powered Madara in his hands, why would he even bother bargaining with Tobi? HE wouldn't. He has everything he needs for his goals and more. If Tobi isn't Madara and Kabuto has the real Madara at full strength, there's no reason why he would have to bargain, right?

Madara wouldn't be able to refuse Kabuto if he was in possession of his body and the rest of his power. It also would be something that he would want kept secret for obvious reasons. If everyone knew that Madara had only a small amount of his power, and someone else had access to the rest of it, that would be something Madara would take issue with.

Conclusion
Tobi is Madara. This fact does not negate the idea of Madara being in the casket, however, as we know that Madara is only a shell of his former self. There is a chance that Kabuto, having perfected the Edo Tensei jutsu, was capable of finding those lost powers and drawing them into a body. In order to return to his prime, Madara would need not only the body, but the rest of his power. And that's assuming that the sixth casket does possess his body, which is a definite unknown.

Three things to clarify:
1) Tobi's mask - If Tobi is Madara using someone else's body, he would have quite the reason to want to keep his face hidden. If he removed his mask and people saw that he was using another body, they might have doubts as to whether or not he was really Madara and may not take him so seriously. And yes, people would know what he looked like originally, considering the fact that there's an immense statue of him at the VotE. Tobi wearing a mask supports the theory that he isn't using Madara's body. It doesn't mean that he isn't still Madara (look at Orochimaru).

2) I commented that it might be Madara's real body, yes, but I also stated that what I suspected was that he drew some of Madara's power into another body. And really, when I keep saying his 'real body', I mean it looks like Madara/is a body with his power. I just didn't feel like repeating that again and again.
3) I know how ET works, or at least the ET we know about. I also know that characters having their powers/souls/what-you-will divided in two isn't unheard of in this manga. It's very possible ET could summon a part of that power/soul if it isn't currently connected to someone. This could be Madara's 'lost' power.
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Old 09-11-2010, 06:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewguy View Post
I think behind tobi's mask is madara's brother izuna because there have been threads that say why didn't the uchiha just swap eyes with each other to gain an ems but what if madara and izuna did swap eyes with each other but izuna didn't get an ems he ended up with a regular sharingan instead or an ms without the drawback of going blind instead of wanting an ems and the story sasuke was told about izuna dieing was just another lie told. also i know that there are some that would say why didn't izuna end up with an ems like madara for taking his brothers well i think it is because there can only be one person in each family that can inherit an ems and madara took izuna's eyes first. that is how i think is pretending to be tobi because the only way i can see madara being tobi is because of izanagi.
They didn't swap Sharingan they stole it from each other so they can have the EMS. Izuna was shown dead, in his coffin. If he is Izuna how does he have all the Sharingan likes he does with out being at the uchiha massacre? How does he have eye[s]? How does he know all about the Juubi and Rikudo when he never got his EMS. How does he know about the fight with Madara and the 1st when they only know the truth. How does he have space time Jutsu when only, Minato, Madara, and the 2nd is known to have. Why can stuff go throw him when it has been shown that only Madara has the power. Why does he know about the tablet when only the Leader of the Uchiha clan (Madara) and a few others know about? Izuna was never up there like Madara. How does he know about truth of the Massacre when he was dead befor it even happened? How does he know about Sasuke and Naruto?
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Old 09-11-2010, 07:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

I have always believed that Madara is in Izuna's body. The reason being is that somehow, during Madara's fight with the First Hokage, when Madara was believed to be dead, he used a technique to take his brother's body. Therefore, I also believe that the 6th casket is his real body and that the only reason he cannot use his such amazing powers is because he is limited to what his brother had, normal sharingan eyes.
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Old 09-11-2010, 07:27 PM   #8
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

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I have always believed that Madara is in Izuna's body. The reason being is that somehow, during Madara's fight with the First Hokage, when Madara was believed to be dead, he used a technique to take his brother's body. Therefore, I also believe that the 6th casket is his real body and that the only reason he cannot use his such amazing powers is because he is limited to what his brother had, normal sharingan eyes.
I agree with this makes a lot of sense.
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Old 09-11-2010, 07:35 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

My best guess, is that Madara was Madara in his own body as he was still controlling Yagura the Mizukage. After that sometime later he met up with Zetsu who had someone with him, that someone would be Obito who he had saved and made a body out of goo for him.

After that something caused Madara to take over Obito's body hence the haircut change,Madara still had hiw original hair as Mizukage but didn't the night of the Kyuubi attack. Plus, that night we saw his body was made out of goo, if Obito was alive he'd need something like that for hiis body to survive.

We also have never seen Madara's EMS as Tobi, only the regular thee tomoe sharingan, if he had his own body I don't see why not use the EMS against Konan.

Also when white Zetsu called Tobi a good boy he may have known about Obito's personality and still didn't know Madara had taken over only Bleack Zetsu knew, they can seperate so they can have seperate memories.

Or something like that, as I was trying to think I got confused.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:06 PM   #10
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

Madara is the Ten-Tails. At least, part of it, anyways.

Theory: Part of the Ten-Tails still existed after Rikudo split it into the Tailed Beast. It lay dormant in the Uchiha side of the family up to Madara's birth, where the Ten-Tails re-surfaced and became Madara. Madara inherited both the Sharingan and Rinnegan because of this, and has done everything up to now in an attempt to gain more power and re-create the havoc and chaos he was capable of producing as the Ten-Tails. He's gathering the Tailed Beasts and reviving the Ten-Tails not to host it, but re-unite with it, thus gaining all of it's power on top of his own.

Evidence to support it:

- Madara reffered to himself as "Ruler of the world" when speaking to Minato. Since Rikudo was the greatest ninja in history, and it took him to put down the Ten-Tails, it may as well have been true that no living ninja could have opposed him.
- Madara also said to Kakashi his plan was to become complete. Reuniting with the Ten-Tails makes this true. He also said he was a shell of his former self.
- This would explain how Madara could possibly give Nagato a Rinnegan.
- The Biju have lived since Rikudo's time, since the Ten-Tails was divided. If they can all live so long, being the Ten-Tails would explain how Madara could live for so many years.

Last edited by deidara330; 09-12-2010 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 09-11-2010, 10:26 PM   #11
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

While I think its most likely Madara=Madara, I am claiming here than Madara=Zetsu clone.

Reasons:
When Kabutorochi confronts Madara, he says something like "so you're going by Madara these days" implying its not who he really is—possibly.

Zetsu has also shown a lot of knowledge of the sharingan. For example during the sasuke vs itachi fight.

Zetsu has shown the ability to consume bodies. My idea is that Zetsu consumed Madara's body or found Madara after he was severly injured by the First Hokage. Zetsu made a clone of Madara and killed the real one or simply made a clone of him shortly after he died from mortal wounds.

We know Zetsu to so far be very mysterious, more than even Madara himself. He is also extremely knowledgeable and a spy, allowing him to know a lot of information and learn about things to help him use a Madara clone successfully. Also we know Zetsu worked along side Tobi initially.

If this is only a Madara clone, it could explain why he can't control the Nine Tails or use the EMS (at least it seems liek he can't). Maybe Zetsu saw a dying Madara after his battle with the first Hokage and by this point Madara no longer had his EMS (lost it during battle), so all Zetsu could clone was a basic sharingan. Furthermore, where did Madara and the 1st Hokage fight? Valley of the End. Where would Zetsu have found Madara—Valley of the End. Where did Zetsu first appear in the series—the Valley of the End? Coincedence? Symbology?

We don't know Zetsu's motives, but we do know that he alone had little credibility. As all he has shown is the ability to split up and clone people. But if he cloned someone else, like the legendary Madara, he could use that clone to control others—as Madara commanded Nagato/Pain.

Also, in regards to why Madara doesn't show half of his body, it could be that Zetsu needed to use Madara's body to use his sharingan and teleporting ability. But if Madara was so close to death, Zetsu may have needed to give him half a body. Zetsu is a being with 2 halves. Maybe he 'sacrificed' half of himself in order to do this.

I might add more later, this is all for now. Sorry for disorganization. Jus had lots of ideas about it.
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Old 09-12-2010, 02:18 AM   #12
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

I think to discover his real identity, you need to consider knowledge, motives and goals. Madara would have an extensive knowledge of the uchia clan, a fitting history which supports his actions and goals which can be explained by his past.

Madara can't be obito, because obito would have been too young when he fought the yondaime hokage - he would be similar in stature to Kakashi shown in that chapter, yet he was a fully grown man. In addition to this Obito lacks knowledge, and without the knowledge he can't have the goals.

The only other person madara can be is Izuna Uchia. He would have the knowledge/motives/goals, and it would explain why he has never shown the Mangekyo sharingan or Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan.

As for immortality, there are only three confirmed ways to achieve this. First is Orochimaru's possesion style jutsu, second is Earth Grudge Fear (Kakuzu) and last is to be a bjuu/ part of the juubi. Considering Earth Grudge Fear is highly unlikely, we can conclude that Madara has either being possesing people, is a part of the juubi or immortal through undisclosed means.
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

Remember when Madara showed his face to Kisame? We didn't actually see his face but Kisame did. Just food for thought, possibly another door to another theory.

Anti-Obito=Madara theory: Someone told me that Madara could just be using Obitos body, so I will clear that up. First things first, Obito was crushed under a million boulders. His body is flattened and maggots are crawling inside of it. Even if Madara designed a healing jutsu to completely reverse that and transport his soul into Obito's body... Remember Obito's right eye was crushed and he gave his left eye to Kakashi. Now Madara has a perfect right-eye and if he WAS in Obito's body, since when did Obito get that kind of Sharingan? We saw Obito and HIS sharingan, but Madaras is different.

Until Madara is shown to unflatten bodies, empty maggots, etc. then he can't be in Obito's body. If he knew how to transport his eye into Obitos and learn all of the techniques above, then I will believe this theory.

Now I read an interesting post by yokokurama, about Zetsu. The black part of Zetsu's body could possibly be an empty part, the part we have never seen of Madara. Obviously, Zetsu and Madara are linked in some way.

I will post more later.
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Old 09-12-2010, 02:20 PM   #14
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Kage View Post
I think to discover his real identity, you need to consider knowledge, motives and goals. Madara would have an extensive knowledge of the uchia clan, a fitting history which supports his actions and goals which can be explained by his past.

Madara can't be obito, because obito would have been too young when he fought the yondaime hokage - he would be similar in stature to Kakashi shown in that chapter, yet he was a fully grown man. In addition to this Obito lacks knowledge, and without the knowledge he can't have the goals.

The only other person madara can be is Izuna Uchia. He would have the knowledge/motives/goals, and it would explain why he has never shown the Mangekyo sharingan or Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan.


As for immortality, there are only three confirmed ways to achieve this. First is Orochimaru's possesion style jutsu, second is Earth Grudge Fear (Kakuzu) and last is to be a bjuu/ part of the juubi. Considering Earth Grudge Fear is highly unlikely, we can conclude that Madara has either being possesing people, is a part of the juubi or immortal through undisclosed means.

The only other person Madara can be in Madara. Izuna does not have the Knowlage MAdara has, nor the motives. Izuna was shown dead in his coffin along with the other Uchiha's.
Aslo if he is Izuna explain me all of this.

Quote:
If he is Izuna how does he have all the Sharingan likes he does with out being at the uchiha massacre? How does he have eye[s]? How does he know all about the Juubi and Rikudo when he never got his EMS. How does he know about the fight with Madara and the 1st when they only know the truth. How does he have space time Jutsu when only, Minato, Madara, and the 2nd is known to have. Why can stuff go throw him when it has been shown that only Madara has the power. Why does he know about the tablet when only the Leader of the Uchiha clan (Madara) and a few others know about? Izuna was never up there like Madara. How does he know about truth of the Massacre when he was dead befor it even happened? How does he know about Sasuke and Naruto?
Hidan's way, or his EMS gives it t him some how
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Old 09-12-2010, 02:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

I know this has already been discussed about thousand times but its really good one as far as I am concerned. Which may not be good enough considering I made it up and will obviously think of it as a good one.

Ok here I go.

This is inspired from the ultimate sasuke theory by Tobitastic and I am thankful to him for providing the chapter and page where Tobi was a bit upset while talking about "his brother" Izuna.

Chapter 399 pages 4 and 11 are really important for this theory. on page 4 sasuke notices Tobi's agitation while talking about Izuna and on page 11 Madara's EMS is shown and the important thing is his only ONE eye is shown.

That made me think about this other theory. I know I'll sound like a guy whose mom dropped him on his head, but still its worth a shot.

What if Madara did not take Izuna's eyes by force? What if Izuna gave his eyes/EYE willingly. What if kishi pulls out something like its not necessary to take both the eyes. Take one eye and obtain EMS for only one eye. That way the brothers might have exchanged their eyes between themselves and obtained EMS for left and right eye respectively.

Then the body in coffin will be of real Madara who actually died against Hashirama and the one pretending to be Madara is actually Izuna. This will also explain kabuto's comment "you go by Madara these days".

This will explain the sacrifice and stealing both. As we know each MS eye has its own jutsus that can be controlled only from that eye. Suppose after recognizing Madara as the strongest of the two Izuna agreed to give up his attacking eye for the clan's sake thereby making himself even more powerless.

Then right after that incident the Senjus propose truce and the Uchihas force Madara to accept it. It totally destroys the sacrifice Izuna made for them and that can explain his feeling of betrayal and resentment towards Uchiha clan. It also explains the involuntary action while talking about "Izuna's" sacrifice.

I know this has got a million holes but like I said, its worth a shot.


PS: The title is also inspired (stolen) from Deidara's thread ""Tobi is someone else besides Madara" Thread #326947"

EDIT:

This also explains why Tobi said "my power, Uchiha madara's power". If Tobi is Izuna and he has Madara's eye then this works out quite well.

/Bump

Chapter 386 page 8:

shows that Madara took one eye from Izuna..."LEFT" eye to be precise. We have already seen that brothers share same MS powers. But the eyes controlling the powers are different. Itachi controlled Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi from right and left eye respectively while sasuke controls Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi from left and right eye respectively.

So it can be assumed that both madara and izuna shared space/time jutsu and controlled it from right and left eye respectively.

This means that when they swapped their eyes Madara lost space/time power and Izuna lost the other powers. This also makes sense by leveling the playing field between madara and hashirama. It must have been at least a bit easier to beat madara without space/time jutsu.


Also, as an add-on to this theory, Madara was near blind when he took eyes/eye from Izuna. It was said that Izuna was almost as powerful as Madara. So, its simply impossible for nearly blind madara to fight and win against an equally powerful Izuna with perfect vision.

But, in the latest chapter(507) as well Tobi has kept his face hidden. If he is really madara then there is no need for that. So, I am back to this one.

Now, Izuna's bleeding eyes and coffin are shown as a part of Tobi's flashbacks. Tobi is know/proven liar and had every reason to lie at that time. It is possible that he was trying to mislead sasuke but gave himself a bit when he showed agitation on page 4 chapter 399.

(My) Conclusions:

1. Tobi is actually Izuna and has lost his real attacking MS powers when he gave his left eye to Madara.

2. Madara did not have space/time jutsu when he fought Hashirama.

3. Madara died at VoTE and Izuna is impersonating as Madara because everyone knew about Madara's powers and people were scared of him, which can be confirmed using Tsuchikage's statements.

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Old 09-12-2010, 03:47 PM   #16
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

Part 2 of Madaras Identity: http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthre...69#post3976469
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:09 PM   #17
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

I would like to point out my Sig. $5 on me
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:16 PM   #18
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

no not orochi style Eternal Mongekyo Sharingan style

as we all know his body was thrashed in the battle against The First so for poeple to say he's himself with his old body healed no i dont exactly think so but his soul lived on based on his mongekyo they dont call it eternal for nothing

and maybe his one eye is gone as you can see among uchiha having a sharingan missing is well normal everyone wants uchiha power just look at Danzo's arm there are alot of eyes there maybe he's encountered Madara in the past and won a fight. Or maybe the one eye thats not shown is just blind from over use why have an eye hole for an eye that has no use

and Izuna's eyes may have been usless but his body was in perfect condition for a test run maybe the brotherly bond and connection allowed Madara's soul to transfer to Izuna when Madara died at final valley because uchiha power transfers are usual

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Old 09-13-2010, 02:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

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I love this thread so much... I know I'm really pushy about Tobi being Madara and I have so many damn threads about it. I think most of the Tobi = Madara threads are mine.
Actually, about 40% in the past month are also mine
I think hes Madara in fact, but I will keep my true opinions for my own enjoyment
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:41 PM   #20
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Default Re: The Big Wager: Madara's True Identity Contest.

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Madara is someone else! I am retarded and don't know what I'm talking about!
No, he's not. No, you're not.

He's anyone BUT Madara, and you're being an ass.
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