Sasuke Missing Nin Plothole/Tsunade is a failure of a Hokage

[Lady Tsunade]

Hold up. So you would like the plot to have been crap? Sasuke escaping the Village is plot. And pretty causes most of the events in part 2. No Sasuke leaving Village = No Plot. And if you really think about it. A small Genin roaming the streets at night? Hardly going to catch the guards eye.

And from I can gather from what you're saying is that you would've preferred some random group of people who have never been introduced in the show properly go out and find Sasuke. Even though Tsunade had no idea it was the Sound 4 who would be guarding Sasuke. Since he only grouped up with them in the forest after he left the Village. And she would therefore have no need to send high power ninja. I should also remind you that Shikamaru chose his team. Not Tsunade. And when he failed his mission. She didn't say 'YOU FAIL SHIKAMARU, GTFO ' xDD She actually comforted him and said that he tried his best etc. If you'd re-read that chapter. And regardless of how strong she knew Orochimaru was, Orochimaru was nowhere near the Village. Otherwise ANBU would catch him and attack. And obviously, with him being sick and all. That wasn't going to go very well. So it really wouldn't have mattered how strong she thought Orochimaru was. Since Sasuke was nowhere near him. Unless she feared a Genin? Also, Rock Lee didn't escape while Tsunade was watching over him. She was treating him. But she wasn't there when he escaped. She was presumably in the hospital somewhere, or in her Tower.

And the reason Tsunade does nothing to retrieve Sasuke? Plot. She sends 20 high powered Jonin to kill him. He gets raped. Plot over. The storyline becomes crap. The whole thing about having faith in the younger generation, she trusted Naruto to bring Sasuke back. Lol You really hate Tsunade don't you? Obviously she wouldn't have let Sasuke roam around free if Naruto wasn't there. Shes not retarded. She is Hokage after all. Again, she sends Team 7 to get Sasuke because of plot. If she sent some random Jonin. The storyline would suck. Some randomers try to kill Sasuke. Orochimaru and Kabuto. And having no knowledge on him either. Be reminded that Naruto and Sakura are stronger than most of the currently fodder Jonin. And they were both trained by Kage Rank Shinobi. They're not weak. Neithers Yamaato. As well as that they had knowledge on all of Sasukes abilities. There isn't a better team actually. Danzo was selfish and wanted the title of Hokage for himself. He wanted to spy on Tsunade at all costs. And was not loyal to the Village at all . Hence why he didn't help the Village against the invasion of Pein. Danzo was nothing but a disrespectful , and unloyal man. Unworthy of what he always wanted - to be Hokage.

You say Tsunade slacks off for comical relief. Which is true. You never saw Hiruzen working 24/7 either did you? He was often walking around the Village. Admiring the views. Or looking through his crystal ball and spying on people. Whats the difference. They're both techniically 'slacking off' they're both strong loyal Kages none the less.

Its all Plot. If the story had what you seem to want. It would suck xD Or imo it would.

-

[naruto_jock]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Madara would pwn...even without EMS.

No question about that. But I wonder if there's anything left for Tsunade to teach Sakura because that girl really needs an upgrade, or else I'm going to consider her the "I can't do anything, but I do cause emotional distress for everyone" character. XDDD

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

Hold up. So you would like the plot to have been crap? Sasuke escaping the Village is plot. And pretty causes most of the events in part 2. No Sasuke leaving Village = No Plot. And if you really think about it. A small Genin roaming the streets at night? Hardly going to catch the guards eye.

And from I can gather from what you're saying is that you would've preferred some random group of people who have never been introduced in the show properly go out and find Sasuke. Even though Tsunade had no idea it was the Sound 4 who would be guarding Sasuke. Since he only grouped up with them in the forest after he left the Village. And she would therefore have no need to send high power ninja. I should also remind you that Shikamaru chose his team. Not Tsunade. And when he failed his mission. She didn't say 'YOU FAIL SHIKAMARU, GTFO ' xDD She actually comforted him and said that he tried his best etc. If you'd re-read that chapter. And regardless of how strong she knew Orochimaru was, Orochimaru was nowhere near the Village. Otherwise ANBU would catch him and attack. And obviously, with him being sick and all. That wasn't going to go very well. So it really wouldn't have mattered how strong she thought Orochimaru was. Since Sasuke was nowhere near him. Unless she feared a Genin? Also, Rock Lee didn't escape while Tsunade was watching over him. She was treating him. But she wasn't there when he escaped. She was presumably in the hospital somewhere, or in her Tower.

And the reason Tsunade does nothing to retrieve Sasuke? Plot. She sends 20 high powered Jonin to kill him. He gets raped. Plot over. The storyline becomes crap. The whole thing about having faith in the younger generation, she trusted Naruto to bring Sasuke back. Lol You really hate Tsunade don't you? Obviously she wouldn't have let Sasuke roam around free if Naruto wasn't there. Shes not retarded. She is Hokage after all. Again, she sends Team 7 to get Sasuke because of plot. If she sent some random Jonin. The storyline would suck. Some randomers try to kill Sasuke. Orochimaru and Kabuto. And having no knowledge on him either. Be reminded that Naruto and Sakura are stronger than most of the currently fodder Jonin. And they were both trained by Kage Rank Shinobi. They're not weak. Neithers Yamaato. As well as that they had knowledge on all of Sasukes abilities. There isn't a better team actually. Danzo was selfish and wanted the title of Hokage for himself. He wanted to spy on Tsunade at all costs. And was not loyal to the Village at all . Hence why he didn't help the Village against the invasion of Pein. Danzo was nothing but a disrespectful , and unloyal man. Unworthy of what he always wanted - to be Hokage.

You say Tsunade slacks off for comical relief. Which is true. You never saw Hiruzen working 24/7 either did you? He was often walking around the Village. Admiring the views. Or looking through his crystal ball and spying on people. Whats the difference. They're both techniically 'slacking off' they're both strong loyal Kages none the less.

Its all Plot. If the story had what you seem to want. It would suck xD Or imo it would.

-

It's true, with out this happening we wouldn't be here talking about such things. Would we? XDDD

[zerosameri]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Good summary. Rep up to you!

It's all so said Tsunade is a failure Hokage is even sense of the word. She clearly the weakest, and not to head smart either. Plus she onlu had a semi-kinda-big moment, sure she saved a few people, but she was in a coma after that for a long wail.

-Minato he fought Madara and was dieing he did 3 HUGE jutsu's
-The 3rd fought Orochimari and the 1st, 2nd Hokage on of the strongest Hokage's
-The 1st Fought Madara head on and lived, he also fought him again but Madara had the kyuubi this time and was said to have died then.
-The 2nd was have said to of had died in a Great Ninja war, he was said to have the best Water jutsu's around

And now we have Tsunade someone that's weak is known for nothing and went into a coma after words

[3littlepigs]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Anywho even if all that is true it still doesn't excuse the fact that there
was plenty of warning before this whole fiasco went down and yet
nothing was done about it to prevent such a disaster.

I just want to point out that Sasuke is not the center of the universe and honestly Tsunade became Hokage at a time when Konoha was weak so there were priorities. You can also blame the 3rd and the two elders for failing to prevent Oro's attack in the first place, not only that but except making Kakashi put on the seal on Sasuke it's not like Sarutobi did much to prevent Oro taking Sasuke away.

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

The 3rd Hokage took notice of Kabuto and knew something
was up and had extra security at the Chuunin Exams.

Sorry but just asking who he was doesn't mean he figured out who Kabuto was working for and the extra security wasn't even that much to be honest....even Kakashi was disappointed at how little was done to prevent that incident even with previous warning.

[narulvr]

Death to Tsunade! just kiddin but what ad's insult to injury is the sound four wearn't even that strong, and bcuz she didn't do anythin years ago danzo is dead (even though he was a traitor) and saskes just runnin around killin people, he's like a japanese dc sniper

[naruto_jock]

Originally Posted by 3littlepigs

I just want to point out that Sasuke is not the center of the universe and honestly Tsunade became Hokage at a time when Konoha was weak so there were priorities. You can also blame the 3rd and the two elders for failing to prevent Oro's attack in the first place, not only that but except making Kakashi put on the seal on Sasuke it's not like Sarutobi did much to prevent Oro taking Sasuke away.

Sorry but just asking who he was doesn't mean he figured out who Kabuto was working for and the extra security wasn't even that much to be honest....even Kakashi was disappointed at how little was done to prevent that incident even with previous warning.

I understand that and we have to unfortunately face the fact that Sasuke at the begining was the center of the "Naruto Universe" since this was the guy that Naruto wanted to beat.
Also, there's no way of trying to figure out who a spy works for like Kabuto since he practically gathered info on many villages' ninjas and knowing how his old village was destroyed. So there wasn't really a whole lot old man third could've done.

[Wooster]

I think the barrier just didn't exist then. That's it.

[zerosameri]

Originally Posted by Wooster

I think the barrier just didn't exist then. That's it.

The sadist part of all, it was there even before Tsuande

[naruto_jock]

Originally Posted by Wooster

I think the barrier just didn't exist then. That's it.

How do you make it sound so easy Woo-man?

[3littlepigs]

Originally Posted by naruto_jock

I understand that and we have to unfortunately face the fact that Sasuke at the begining was the center of the "Naruto Universe" since this was the guy that Naruto wanted to beat.
Also, there's no way of trying to figure out who a spy works for like Kabuto since he practically gathered info on many villages' ninjas and knowing how his old village was destroyed. So there wasn't really a whole lot old man third could've done.

Ok then why is Tsunade any different? let's leave aside the fact that even if we don't like it it was all for the sake of the plot but since you seem to think Sarutobi couldn't have done much more (even with him having ages of experience as Hokage when compared to Tsunade and him knowing Oro just as well because of their relationship) Should she just have gone after Sasuke herself? She sent who she thought was right for the job and who she had available and that was it.

Originally Posted by Wooster

I think the barrier just didn't exist then. That's it.

No, the barrier existed because Itachi and Kisame both went in when the barrier was put only because of Itachi having been an ANBU and all they could get in easily. If the barrier existed at that time we can assume it still existed a while later when the Sound 4 came to Konoha. By the way all this was explained by Pain just before he attacked Konoha...

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

Hold up. So you would like the plot to have been crap?

In some ways it already kinda is.

Sasuke escaping the Village is plot.

It's not a problem that he escapes. It's that he escapes so easily.

And pretty causes most of the events in part 2. No Sasuke leaving Village = No Plot.

As explained it's how easily he escaped not that the escaped.


And if you really think about it. A small Genin roaming the streets at night? Hardly going to catch the guards eye.

Of course this same Genin just happens to be the ONLY Uchiha
left in Konoha and was specifically targeted by Orochimaru.

And from I can gather from what you're saying is that you would've preferred some random group of people who have never been introduced in the show properly go out and find Sasuke.

It would have made a lot more sense. Naruto would have gone anyways.

Even though Tsunade had no idea it was the Sound 4 who would be guarding Sasuke.

They were with Orochimaru when he attacked the village.
Anyone with half a brain would have put them on a watch-list.

Since he only grouped up with them in the forest after he left the Village. And she would therefore have no need to send high power ninja.

The mission failed. That's enough reason she needed higher power ninja.

I should also remind you that Shikamaru chose his team. Not Tsunade.

Tsunade said he could only pick available Genin.

And when he failed his mission. She didn't say 'YOU FAIL SHIKAMARU, GTFO ' xDD She actually comforted him and said that he tried his best etc.

I'll give you half credit for this one because she does say we fail...
Still she limited his resources to only a few available Genin.


If you'd re-read that chapter. And regardless of how strong she knew Orochimaru was, Orochimaru was nowhere near the Village.

That's true he wasn't.

Otherwise ANBU would catch him and attack.

Apparently not as they don't seem to do much of anything.

And obviously, with him being sick and all. That wasn't going to go very well. So it really wouldn't have mattered how strong she thought Orochimaru was.

Even being sick he was able to fight well. Orochimaru is a threat.

Since Sasuke was nowhere near him. Unless she feared a Genin?

She should know that Orochimaru is the leader of the Sound Village
and would use his best resources to bring Sasuke to his village.


Also, Rock Lee didn't escape while Tsunade was watching over him. She was treating him. But she wasn't there when he escaped. She was presumably in the hospital somewhere, or in her Tower.

He was still under her care and supervision. Like I said...he was injured.


And the reason Tsunade does nothing to retrieve Sasuke? Plot. She sends 20 high powered Jonin to kill him. He gets raped. Plot over.The storyline becomes crap. The whole thing about having faith in the younger generation, she trusted Naruto to bring Sasuke back.

As true as that is she still fails as Hokage.


Lol You really hate Tsunade don't you?

Yes

Obviously she wouldn't have let Sasuke roam around free if Naruto wasn't there.

Actually she would. Naruto is the one who kept on with retrieving
Sasuke. He trained and trained and trained so he could be strong enough.

Tsunade does nothing during that time.


Shes not retarded. She is Hokage after all.

That's like saying James Buchanan
was not a failure because he was president after all.

Again, she sends Team 7 to get Sasuke because of plot.

Excuses. Excuses.

If she sent some random Jonin. The storyline would suck.

Actually it would be pretty awesome.

Some randomers try to kill Sasuke. Orochimaru and Kabuto.

It would make more sense than just Naruto and Friends going/

And having no knowledge on him either.

No knowledge? Orochimaru was from Konoha. Tsunade knew him.

Be reminded that Naruto and Sakura are stronger than most of the currently fodder Jonin.

Due to crappy writing they are.

And they were both trained by Kage Rank Shinobi.

In Sakura's case it's because Tsunade made the Kage rank a joke.

They're not weak.

Yes they were.

Neithers Yamaato.

It's hard to say for him as Kishimoto refuses to give him a good fight.

As well as that they had knowledge on all of Sasukes abilities. There isn't a better team actually.

Like I said they aren't a bad team...but back up.

Danzo was selfish and wanted the title of Hokage for himself. He wanted to spy on Tsunade at all costs. And was not loyal to the Village at all . Hence why he didn't help the Village against the invasion of Pein. Danzo was nothing but a disrespectful , and unloyal man. Unworthy of what he always wanted - to be Hokage.

You can question his morality all you want but he's leagues more
competent than Tsunade could ever hope to be. Danzo is really
more the one who fails because of plot.


You say Tsunade slacks off for comical relief. Which is true. You never saw Hiruzen working 24/7 either did you? He was often walking around the Village. Admiring the views. Or looking through his crystal ball and spying on people. Whats the difference. They're both techniically 'slacking off' they're both strong loyal Kages none the less.

the third Hokage used his crystal ball to keep watch.
It wasn't entirely just for his own amusement.
Tsunade's sleeping on the job does absolutely no good.



Its all Plot. If the story had what you seem to want. It would suck xD Or imo it would.

Well you probably would hate it as I would have killed off Tsunade by now.

-

in black

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by 3littlepigs

I just want to point out that Sasuke is not the center of the universe

Sasuke was the last Uchiha left in Konoha. He had the Sharingan.

Sasuke in enemy hands is very bad news.

[3littlepigs]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Sasuke was the last Uchiha left in Konoha. He had the Sharingan.

Sasuke in enemy hands is very bad news.

And you don't think Tsunade knew that? She even said so herself but she also said there were priorities and for once she was right. What was done was done...Sasuke was already past the border, they lost track of him, and Konoha was weak. She did what she thought was right...didn't Sarutobi also failed to kill Oro? You just really dislike Tsunade...it's like me with Sasuke. I can't see anything positive at this point...

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by 3littlepigs

And you don't think Tsunade knew that? She even said so herself but she also said there were priorities and for once she was right. What was done was done...Sasuke was already past the border, they lost track of him, and Konoha was weak. She did what she thought was right...didn't Sarutobi also failed to kill Oro? You just really dislike Tsunade...it's like me with Sasuke. I can't see anything positive at this point...

Yes she did know that and that's why
it's inexcusable Sasuke got away so easily.

Sarutobi failed to kill Orochimaru out of mercy...not incompetence.


I do dislike Tsunade because she makes the Hokages a complete joke.

Also this isn't a "why couldn't she do more to save Sasuke" thread.
If Tsunade had to resort to sending people to kill Sasuke that
would be fine with me. But she did not do any of this.

Tsunade should have gave an order to have Sasuke be taken
back to the village dead or alive. But instead she settles for
alive or just fail to bring him back at all and do nothing much about it.


Heck Tsunade should have gone after Sasuke herself.

The counselors could have taken care of the village while she was gone.

But nope.
Tsunade has to stay and sleep at her desk and not get paperwork done.

[3littlepigs]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Yes she did know that and that's why
it's inexcusable Sasuke got away so easily.

Sarutobi failed to kill Orochimaru out of mercy...not incompetence.


I do dislike Tsunade because she makes the Hokages a complete joke.

Also this isn't a "why couldn't she do more to save Sasuke" thread.
If Tsunade had to resort to sending people to kill Sasuke that
would be fine with me. But she did not do any of this.

Tsunade should have gave an order to have Sasuke be taken
back to the village dead or alive. But instead she settles for
alive or just fail to bring him back at all and do nothing much about it.


Heck Tsunade should have gone after Sasuke herself.

The counselors could have taken care of the village while she was gone.

But nope.
Tsunade has to stay and sleep at her desk and not get paperwork done.

She makes the Hokages a complete joke only because people are always comparing her to the previous Hokages and the thing is they're all different, different people different skills and different ways to "protect" Konoha.

She did know and that's why she took action the moment she found out and it's not like she put Naruto or Choji as leaders of the platoon...Shikamaru was chosen and I'm sorry but he's great at what he does even if he's lazy. He chose the team and Tsunade only suggested he bring Naruto for the obvious plot reason but also because she trusted Naruto after what he did for her and because no one would want to bring Sasuke back more than someone close to him and Kakashi wasn't around and obviously Sakura was completely useless.

Sarutobi not killing Oro wasn't mercy...it was incompetence. He couldn't fulfill his job as Hokage and get rid of Oro before it was too late....when you compare that with Itachi killing his own clan to protect his village and only managing to not kill on person close to him I don't even want to talk about Tsunade's incompetence.

She didn't just "settle" she couldn't do anything else! What it's not like she had a frigging Cristal ball like Sarutobi to spy on Sasuke or like she put a chip on him to locate him. He was gone...no trace of him. The person closest to the scene and who even had a chance of tracking him was Kakashi with Pakkun but he chose to bring Naruto back to the village.

So the Hokage should just go out just like that in the middle of a crisis and risk going into enemy's territory? oh that would have been great if Tsunade got killed not long after Sarutobi...Hokages don't just go out for whatever reason that's why they have all the rest of the shinobi under their command which is what she did. She gave an order, a mission and the platoon failed. What did you want her to do? not settle and kill Shikamaru and the rest?

And you're right this wasn't a "why couldn't she do more to save Sasuke" thread but people made it into one and so I gave my opinion on what was going on.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by 3littlepigs

She makes the Hokages a complete joke only because people are always comparing her to the previous Hokages and the thing is they're all different, different people different skills and different ways to "protect" Konoha.

She did know and that's why she took action the moment she found out and it's not like she put Naruto or Choji as leaders of the platoon...Shikamaru was chosen and I'm sorry but he's great at what he does even if he's lazy. He chose the team and Tsunade only suggested he bring Naruto for the obvious plot reason but also because she trusted Naruto after what he did for her and because no one would want to bring Sasuke back more than someone close to him and Kakashi wasn't around and obviously Sakura was completely useless.

Sarutobi not killing Oro wasn't mercy...it was incompetence. He couldn't fulfill his job as Hokage and get rid of Oro before it was too late....when you compare that with Itachi killing his own clan to protect his village and only managing to not kill on person close to him I don't even want to talk about Tsunade's incompetence.

She didn't just "settle" she couldn't do anything else! What it's not like she had a frigging Cristal ball like Sarutobi to spy on Sasuke or like she put a chip on him to locate him. He was gone...no trace of him. The person closest to the scene and who even had a chance of tracking him was Kakashi with Pakkun but he chose to bring Naruto back to the village.

So the Hokage should just go out just like that in the middle of a crisis and risk going into enemy's territory? oh that would have been great if Tsunade got killed not long after Sarutobi...Hokages don't just go out for whatever reason that's why they have all the rest of the shinobi under their command which is what she did. She gave an order, a mission and the platoon failed. What did you want her to do? not settle and kill Shikamaru and the rest?

And you're right this wasn't a "why couldn't she do more to save Sasuke" thread but people made it into one and so I gave my opinion on what was going on.

She makes it a joke because it's obvious she's only Hokage
so Kishimoto can have an excuse for his plot---her incompetence.

Shikamaru is brilliant. Tsunade gave him nothing to work with
and he did a pretty darn good job even if he did fail.

No it was mercy. He couldn't bring himself to kill his student.
Also there's no real indication that Itachi killed his clan.
It could have very easily been all Madara's doing.
Tsunade is incompetent.

Yep she can't do anything else because she's a terrible Hokage.
She should step down and give a better ninja the job.
If you remember Kakashi went out on his own and Tsunade
tried to stop him.

Yes the Hokage should do that when it's only Uchiha has
gone missing and likely with the Sound Ninja. However
since you don't care for Sasuke (which is fair. He is a jerk.)
Imagine it as if Naruto was the one who left the village.
Don't you think it would be bad news if Naruto the host
of the Nine Tails fell into enemy hands? Shouldn't
the Hokage do everything in his/her power to prevent that?
Tsunade would have let Naruto waltz right out of the village.


Basically I'm with the Raikage when he talked about how
letting Sasuke roam around free was just a bunch of fail.


Oh and for the excuse of Tsunade not having enough man
power because the village needed to be repaired...

When Danzo was Candidate Hokage the village was in a WORSE
situation yet when he got the letter from Raikage requesting
Sasuke's disposal it didn't take Danzo very long to know that
Sasuke needed to be eliminated and taken care of. Heck Danzo
knew Sasuke was a problem and tried to kill him long before.
Danzo even fought Sasuke himself and tried to stop him.
While Danzo did fail, he at least put forth the effort and
also he had the disadvantage of having to keep a low profile.

Also Danzo suffers terribly from plot.

[PlatonicZombie]

Meh. I didn't really read every single thing in this read (though I did scan through it). I'm going to side with the Tsunade supporters. I've seen some posts that aren't exactly answered. Mainly that she has faith in Naruto. Just because he failed to begin with, she did say she believed Naruto would become Hokage, so it would make sense if she entrusted in him to deal with Sasuke; furthermore, to say Tsunade is the most incompitent Hokage isn't true. The Third Hokage I think is much more failed than Tsunade; he was responsible for Oro when he was younger, and we all know how that turned out; the Fourth stopped the nine tails attack, not the Third; he failed to stop Oro's experiments, and he failed to defeat Oro; and wasn't the Uchiha massacre under his watch as well?
Kishi isn't as sexist, he's ageist!!!!!! The Third, Tsunade.... Doesn't he know that he too will turn old!?

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by PlatonicZombie

Meh. I didn't really read every single thing in this read (though I did scan through it). I'm going to side with the Tsunade supporters. I've seen some posts that aren't exactly answered. Mainly that she has faith in Naruto. Just because he failed to begin with, she did say she believed Naruto would become Hokage, so it would make sense if she entrusted in him to deal with Sasuke; furthermore, to say Tsunade is the most incompitent Hokage isn't true. The Third Hokage I think is much more failed than Tsunade; he was responsible for Oro when he was younger, and we all know how that turned out; the Fourth stopped the nine tails attack, not the Third; he failed to stop Oro's experiments, and he failed to defeat Oro; and wasn't the Uchiha massacre under his watch as well?
Kishi isn't as sexist, he's ageist!!!!!! The Third, Tsunade.... Doesn't he know that he too will turn old!?

She has faith in Naruto. Big whoop. So does everyone else and they are the sheer level of incompetence that she is. The difference is that
with the 3rd he was more between a rock and a hard place than
being incompetent. The Uchiha massacre happened because
otherwise there would be a coup d'etat and he tried to stop it.
The third did fail to kill Orochimaru but at least he try to right his wrong.
Tsunade could have stopped Sasuke but didn't think it was important enough of an issue which she was clearly wrong about.

[nine tailed sasuke]

tsunade is only good for really hot fan art

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by nine tailed sasuke

tsunade is only good for really hot fan art

Honestly I wish they showed her old and how she really is.