God doesn't exist... agree or disagree?

[PlatonicZombie]

Originally Posted by Bacon

While religion has taken a back seat with many people in my generation, there are still a billion catholics. So don't go saying that people of faith are dying out. I won't agree that they aren't practicing an archaic way of thinking becuase the values expressed in the bibles reflect the time that they were written. Furthermore, I have never read about atheists persecuting people of faith. In fact, history accounts the people of faith are the ones who harm others for having different beliefs. As for verbal attacks, the worst I have seen is a little insult on a forum becuase that person doesn't have the balls to say it in real life.

Although, I do agree with you on missing my faith. Life was blissful back then.

"The self-assured believer is a greater sinner in the eyes of God than the troubled disbeliever." -Soren Kierkegaard

I was speaking on faith in terms of those who actually question their beliefs and what they are being preached about yet still hold onto their faith at the end. Faith is not faith if the person never questions their beliefs. So those billion catholics I wouldn't considered to be using faith unless they actually questioned and continued to questioned their beliefs, yet hold true to their faith. I fear that barely a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of those billion actually ever do.

[The 1st Hokage]

The fact that God does or does not exist is only in the eyes of the beholder. If someone does not believe that God is real, then he is not real to them. If someone else thinks God is real, then God is real to them.

The debate itself is impossible, and the reason being that it is an opinion. You can believe he is, or you can believe he isn't. Proving God's existence is near impossible, but by REAL studies, people that attend Church Services, and read the Bible, have shown improvement in their life morally and have just shown to have a better outlook on the aspect of life. Now everyone's opinion differs due to his/her experiences, but stating God is not real, proves you ignorance and short-sightedness.

My personal belief is that God is real, because I do belief he helps me in many parts of my life. There are times I do think I could of succeeded, or couldn't of even survived without God. I hope my words have helped you all open your eyes and maybe, just maybe, be a bit more open minded about your belief.

[Bacon]

Originally Posted by PlatonicZombie

"The self-assured believer is a greater sinner in the eyes of God than the troubled disbeliever." -Soren Kierkegaard

I was speaking on faith in terms of those who actually question their beliefs and what they are being preached about yet still hold onto their faith at the end. Faith is not faith if the person never questions their beliefs. So those billion catholics I wouldn't considered to be using faith unless they actually questioned and continued to questioned their beliefs, yet hold true to their faith. I fear that barely a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of those billion actually ever do.

It's a good point you brought up.
Although,we are talking about a religion that ruled in a society without change.

[Bacon]

Originally Posted by The 1st Hokage

The fact that God does or does not exist is only in the eyes of the beholder. If someone does not believe that God is real, then he is not real to them. If someone else thinks God is real, then God is real to them.

The debate itself is impossible, and the reason being that it is an opinion. You can believe he is, or you can believe he isn't. Proving God's existence is near impossible, but by REAL studies, people that attend Church Services, and read the Bible, have shown improvement in their life morally and have just shown to have a better outlook on the aspect of life. Now everyone's opinion differs due to his/her experiences, but stating God is not real, proves you ignorance and short-sightedness.

My personal belief is that God is real, because I do belief he helps me in many parts of my life. There are times I do think I could of succeeded, or couldn't of even survived without God. I hope my words have helped you all open your eyes and maybe, just maybe, be a bit more open minded about your belief.

Keep in mind that I am not athiest becuase I would have to put my faith in a theory to explain the big answers. If I can't put my faith into a god, I won't for a theory. Still, you are wrong about this being impossible to an extent. Beleiving something is real doesn't make it real. I can believe that Yoshi from Super Mario world will fall from the sky someday,but that doesn't mean it will happen. The same goes for God.

Everything happens for a reason and that reason is out there somewhere. It can be God,the Big bang or something entirelty different.

What I find Ironic is how someone who blindly believes in athe Catholic or Christian God is preaching about ignorance and short sighted-ness.

[Rasengan-]

Originally Posted by Bacon

Keep in mind that I am not athiest becuase I would have to put my faith in a theory to explain the big answers. If I can't put my faith into a god, I won't for a theory. Still, you are wrong about this being impossible to an extent. Beleiving something is real doesn't make it real. I can believe that Yoshi from Super Mario world will fall from the sky someday,but that doesn't mean it will happen. The same goes for God.

Everything happens for a reason and that reason is out there somewhere. It can be God,the Big bang or something entirelty different.

What I find Ironic is how someone who blindly believes in athe Catholic or Christian God is preaching about ignorance and short sighted-ness.

I think the 1st hokage is referring to the internal of the mind to which the belief of something is real or fake. Our minds can only go so far as what we know and experience. To this extent we all experience and learn different things/same in different ways.

Perhaps one person's understanding of the existence of god through an experience or knowledge of the bible allows them to justify their belief to be true or false (real or fake). Thus, I believe the 1st hokage is referring to the own internal mind belief that god exist only to them. Holding either the experience or knowledge that justify 'their' belief.

People are different, everyone is different, perchance their lack of knowledge limits their ability to seek answers or to recognise between real or fake.

Your super mario example will not happen because you personally know that it an illusion and nothing more. However, the magnitude of the existence of god debate is not comparable. The dichotomy of imagination and god may somewhat overlap for you, but for others it is a different story.

Due to our different exposure to realities of society tends to lead us to reach different outcomes or results in one's minds understand of the realities the live in. The short sightedness and ignorance is explained above.

[The 1st Hokage]

Originally Posted by Bacon

Keep in mind that I am not athiest becuase I would have to put my faith in a theory to explain the big answers. If I can't put my faith into a god, I won't for a theory. Still, you are wrong about this being impossible to an extent. Beleiving something is real doesn't make it real. I can believe that Yoshi from Super Mario world will fall from the sky someday,but that doesn't mean it will happen. The same goes for God.

Everything happens for a reason and that reason is out there somewhere. It can be God,the Big bang or something entirelty different.

What I find Ironic is how someone who blindly believes in athe Catholic or Christian God is preaching about ignorance and short sighted-ness.

"Blindly"? There is indeed scientific proof of some things noted in the Bible like The Flood in Genesis. Even examples like this lead me to believe more things can be true from the Bible. If this makes me ignorant, than ignorant I am.

As for your Yoshi scenario, they are far from comparable. Believing in something that was said to create the universe, and believing in a green donkey in a Video Game is extremely different. God can't be seen or heard, but to certain people, he gives them something to live for. As I said, people saw improvement in their own lives by simply going to Church, or reading the Bible.

I could never put faith into some Theory unless I'm taking a Science test. As Rasengan- said, it all has to do with your exposure and their own personal experiences. My whole family is Christian, my Grandmother is one of the sweetest most Christian Women you might ever meet, but to say Godis not real because the only proof we have is a book, can be just as wrong as someone saying Scientist are wrong because there is no solid proof of the Big Bang. The whole debate isn't True or False, or Real or Fake, its all an opinion and it can be seen multiple ways.

[Bacon]

Originally Posted by Rasengan-

I think the 1st hokage is referring to the internal of the mind to which the belief of something is real or fake. Our minds can only go so far as what we know and experience. To this extent we all experience and learn different things/same in different ways.

Perhaps one person's understanding of the existence of god through an experience or knowledge of the bible allows them to justify their belief to be true or false (real or fake). Thus, I believe the 1st hokage is referring to the own internal mind belief that god exist only to them. Holding either the experience or knowledge that justify 'their' belief.

People are different, everyone is different, perchance their lack of knowledge limits their ability to seek answers or to recognise between real or fake.

Your super mario example will not happen because you personally know that it an illusion and nothing more. However, the magnitude of the existence of god debate is not comparable. The dichotomy of imagination and god may somewhat overlap for you, but for others it is a different story.

Due to our different exposure to realities of society tends to lead us to reach different outcomes or results in one's minds understand of the realities the live in. The short sightedness and ignorance is explained above.

I fully understand that others can fully believe in a god because philosophically, it's not that far fetched to assume that something created everything. However, the 1st Hokage's believes are based off nothing. I was merely calling him out for his hypocritical statement.

Originally Posted by The 1st Hokage

"Blindly"? There is indeed scientific proof of some things noted in the Bible like The Flood in Genesis. Even examples like this lead me to believe more things can be true from the Bible. If this makes me ignorant, than ignorant I am.

As for your Yoshi scenario, they are far from comparable. Believing in something that was said to create the universe, and believing in a green donkey in a Video Game is extremely different. God can't be seen or heard, but to certain people, he gives them something to live for. As I said, people saw improvement in their own lives by simply going to Church, or reading the Bible.

I could never put faith into some Theory unless I'm taking a Science test. As Rasengan- said, it all has to do with your exposure and their own personal experiences. My whole family is Christian, my Grandmother is one of the sweetest most Christian Women you might ever meet, but to say Godis not real because the only proof we have is a book, can be just as wrong as someone saying Scientist are wrong because there is no solid proof of the Big Bang. The whole debate isn't True or False, or Real or Fake, its all an opinion and it can be seen multiple ways.

I would personally love to read this evidence that a great flood wiped out the world. I would love to find evidence of lost civilizations and age appropriate human remains. I would love to hear where someone proved that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. Maybe you will be the one who can bring some evidence to back the bible.

I meant no offense because you can believe what you will. However, I will not keep quiet when say that...

Proving God's existence is near impossible

Don't try to end a debate and then preach openminded ness. I can respect your believes that are based off of a different philosophy,but don't call others ignorant for exploring the truth.

[The 1st Hokage]

Originally Posted by Bacon

I fully understand that others can fully believe in a god because philosophically, it's not that far fetched to assume that something created everything. However, the 1st Hokage's believes are based off nothing. I was merely calling him out for his hypocritical statement.



I would personally love to read this evidence that a great flood wiped out the world. I would love to find evidence of lost civilizations and age appropriate human remains. I would love to hear where someone proved that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. Maybe you will be the one who can bring some evidence to back the bible.

I meant no offense because you can believe what you will. However, I will not keep quiet when say that...

Don't try to end a debate and then preach openminded ness. I can respect your believes that are based off of a different philosophy,but don't call others ignorant for exploring the truth.

I'm simply said it was ignorant to state something like God does not exist, when there are people who have different beliefs and opinions on the matter when no one has complete solid evidence.

Great Flood

[Err]

1. The debate is not about opinion; it's about facts and logic, though I can't say it works the same way on the believer's end. What is an opinion is the question of a god's existence, not the debate itself. The things we are debating about is just what leads us to our opinion.

2. Please link your proof that church-goers lead a morally better life than the non-religious without citing an already biased religious group.

3. The flood has "happened" many times in ancient texts.

[The 1st Hokage]

1. So the logic about a star exploding creating life makes sense? Where is the logic in that?

2. 700 Club. One of the most boring shows in history, but it has shown people who were having hard times in their life and saw imporvement in their life. I didn't say they lead a better life morally, I said they saw improvement in their life morally. They are different.

3. So there were multiple floods noted in history and it could of been any of the multiple stories, but the fact that is the ones that are supposedly caused by the "Gods" are ridiculous. They have found the tunnels in Isreal also noted in the Bible that were used during the First Jewish Revolt.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...sh_revolt.html

[Err]

Originally Posted by The 1st Hokage

1. So the logic about a star exploding creating life makes sense? Where is the logic in that?

2. 700 Club. One of the most boring shows in history, but it has shown people who were having hard times in their life and saw imporvement in their life. I didn't say they lead a better life morally, I said they saw improvement in their life morally. They are different.

3. So there were multiple floods noted in history and it could of been any of the multiple stories, but the fact that is the ones that are supposedly caused by the "Gods" are ridiculous. They have found the tunnels in Isreal also noted in the Bible that were used during the First Jewish Revolt.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...sh_revolt.html

1. Yes, that makes a lot more sense than just saying "God did it".

2. 700 Club? Oh man, you couldn't have picked a worse biased group. Those are some bad people right there.
Then just search Pat Robertson.

3. Read it again. There are world-wide floods. Do you think that it could happen multiple times? Do you think people build arks every time to save certain animals? The bible has some historical accurancy, this doesn't mean ALL the things that happened in the bible are true.

[The 1st Hokage]

1. So an explosion causing life makes sense? I still don't see it.

2. I find 99% of what they say ridiculous and biased, but I have seen bits and peices of documentaries about people who were having hard times due to the economy, then finding that reading the Bible and praying helped them get through the hard times.

3. It is possible it could happen more than once, but if one had happened after the time frame of Noah and the Great Flood, that makes what God said Void. If you can provide me with proof that a flood happened after that time frame, then I'm wrong.

As for the last sentence of 3, I do understand this. Believing every word of the Bible is kinda far fetched, but I don't need a scientific explanation for everything either.

[ベーゼル]

God requires believing and believing is someone who is hoping that God does exist. Such like someone believing in themselves, knowing they could be a celebrity but without the proof of working hard. Therefore, where is the proof of God existiance in a logical answer that does not require in just believing. Due to this, I know there is no God.

[Err]

Originally Posted by The 1st Hokage

1. So an explosion causing life makes sense? I still don't see it.

2. I find 99% of what they say ridiculous and biased, but I have seen bits and peices of documentaries about people who were having hard times due to the economy, then finding that reading the Bible and praying helped them get through the hard times.

3. It is possible it could happen more than once, but if one had happened after the time frame of Noah and the Great Flood, that makes what God said Void. If you can provide me with proof that a flood happened after that time frame, then I'm wrong.

As for the last sentence of 3, I do understand this. Believing every word of the Bible is kinda far fetched, but I don't need a scientific explanation for everything either.

1. It makes a lot of sense if you know the details.

2. Doing drugs and going to counselor's also helps you get through the bad times. This only proves that some people find help in very unlikely places.

3. Flood never happened to begin with. Don't you think a global flood would of killed the animals in Australia even if an ark with animals was built?

[Hidan.of dA.MisT]

God isnt responsible for those bad things devil is

[Hidan.of dA.MisT]

Its the devils attempt to make you lose faith in god and some of you guys fall for it \

[The 1st Hokage]

Originally Posted by Err

1. It makes a lot of sense if you know the details.

2. Doing drugs and going to counselor's also helps you get through the bad times. This only proves that some people find help in very unlikely places.

3. Flood never happened to begin with. Don't you think a global flood would of killed the animals in Australia even if an ark with animals was built?

1. If you could explain it to me or link me to a better explanation it might make things clear.

2. Fair enough.

3. Back in the days of the Bible, the Eastern part of the world was the whole World to them, and if any part of science was true, the continents we know now, woud of been one land mass itself, not broken into continents.

[ItachiAnbu]

Originally Posted by Hidan.of dA.MisT

Its the devils attempt to make you lose faith in god and some of you guys fall for it \

This is one of the main reasons why I left the faith. :/

[Err]

Originally Posted by The 1st Hokage

1. If you could explain it to me or link me to a better explanation it might make things clear.

2. Fair enough.

3. Back in the days of the Bible, the Eastern part of the world was the whole World to them, and if any part of science was true, the continents we know now, woud of been one land mass itself, not broken into continents.

1. Watch Carl Sagan's "Cosmos". He did a far better job at explaining things like this then I ever can.

2. Point 3 moved to point 2. Just how old do you think Earth is?

[Bacon]

Originally Posted by The 1st Hokage

I'm simply said it was ignorant to state something like God does not exist, when there are people who have different beliefs and opinions on the matter when no one has complete solid evidence.

Great Flood

All of the evidence you provided is based on speculation, not fact.