United States Collapsing?

[Gamabunta]

Give me your opinion on this video, tell me if you agree, disagree, don't care, or even just your reaction:

YouTube:

Hell I'll give rep to anyone who watches the whole thing and posts their response in this thread.

[Gamabunta]

Fix'd.

[Gamabunta]

Even the Russians agree:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html

MOSCOW -- For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument -- that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. -- very seriously. Now he's found an eager audience: Russian state media.
Igor Panarin



In recent weeks, he's been interviewed as much as twice a day about his predictions. "It's a record," says Prof. Panarin. "But I think the attention is going to grow even stronger."
Prof. Panarin, 50 years old, is not a fringe figure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's academy for future diplomats. He is invited to Kremlin receptions, lectures students, publishes books, and appears in the media as an expert on U.S.-Russia relations.
But it's his bleak forecast for the U.S. that is music to the ears of the Kremlin, which in recent years has blamed Washington for everything from instability in the Middle East to the global financial crisis. Mr. Panarin's views also fit neatly with the Kremlin's narrative that Russia is returning to its rightful place on the world stage after the weakness of the 1990s, when many feared that the country would go economically and politically bankrupt and break into separate territories.
A polite and cheerful man with a buzz cut, Mr. Panarin insists he does not dislike Americans. But he warns that the outlook for them is dire.
"There's a 55-45% chance right now that disintegration will occur," he says. "One could rejoice in that process," he adds, poker-faced. "But if we're talking reasonably, it's not the best scenario -- for Russia." Though Russia would become more powerful on the global stage, he says, its economy would suffer because it currently depends heavily on the dollar and on trade with the U.S.
Mr. Panarin posits, in brief, that mass immigration, economic decline, and moral degradation will trigger a civil war next fall and the collapse of the dollar. Around the end of June 2010, or early July, he says, the U.S. will break into six pieces -- with Alaska reverting to Russian control.
In addition to increasing coverage in state media, which are tightly controlled by the Kremlin, Mr. Panarin's ideas are now being widely discussed among local experts. He presented his theory at a recent roundtable discussion at the Foreign Ministry. The country's top international relations school has hosted him as a keynote speaker. During an appearance on the state TV channel Rossiya, the station cut between his comments and TV footage of lines at soup kitchens and crowds of homeless people in the U.S. The professor has also been featured on the Kremlin's English-language propaganda channel, Russia Today.
Mr. Panarin's apocalyptic vision "reflects a very pronounced degree of anti-Americanism in Russia today," says Vladimir Pozner, a prominent TV journalist in Russia. "It's much stronger than it was in the Soviet Union."
Mr. Pozner and other Russian commentators and experts on the U.S. dismiss Mr. Panarin's predictions. "Crazy ideas are not usually discussed by serious people," says Sergei Rogov, director of the government-run Institute for U.S. and Canadian Studies, who thinks Mr. Panarin's theories don't hold water.

[Snowy Owl]

I agree with most of the problems stated in the video and article- the shallow obsessions with celebrities on the news, the debt and near-bankruptcy of most of the states- but not that it will break America suddenly apart. Certainly we'd be more productive without such things, but I think it's a stretch to say they'll cause civil war and complete catastrophe.

I do think, however, that we are starting a slow fall from the superpower we once were, while countries like China, Russia, and Brazil will rise to replace us. It's a cycle of sorts- a country's citizens work hard to build it up, but then become complacent and gradually fall until they're surpassed by a new nation. Falls from seemingly great power have happened before, with the world's greatest empires, so it'll surely happen to us- but more gradually. As the world advances and stabilizes, the power shifts have been growing less extreme. Unless some sort of World War III happens, I think our fall will be a slow, steady one, until we realize what's happening and work to regain this lost ground.

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by Snowy Owl

I agree with most of the problems stated in the video and article- the shallow obsessions with celebrities on the news, the debt and near-bankruptcy of most of the states- but not that it will break America suddenly apart. Certainly we'd be more productive without such things, but I think it's a stretch to say they'll cause civil war and complete catastrophe.

I do think, however, that we are starting a slow fall from the superpower we once were, while countries like China, Russia, and Brazil will rise to replace us. It's a cycle of sorts- a country's citizens work hard to build it up, but then become complacent and gradually fall until they're surpassed by a new nation. Falls from seemingly great power have happened before, with the world's greatest empires, so it'll surely happen to us- but more gradually. As the world advances and stabilizes, the power shifts have been growing less extreme. Unless some sort of World War III happens, I think our fall will be a slow, steady one, until we realize what's happening and work to regain this lost ground.

Where have you been? It's not sudden it's been happening for the last 20 years. Arguably for the last 50 years.

Freedom, democracy, and individual rights. This is what is supposed to set us apart. It is what makes our system the better. The best. Different. If we do collapse how can one make an arguable case for democracy? It will always eventually be triumphed by a tyranny of some sort. Apathy, stupidity, and decadance is what is killing our nation. We don't have to decline, we are just choosing not to correct our course. It is not an inevitability. It is something we can change.

Who is willing to though? Who is willing to make the change? Are you? Am I? Are our leaders?

[Maikeru D. Shinigami]

We don't have freedom, democracy or individual rights.

[Snowy Owl]

Originally Posted by Gamabunta

Where have you been? It's not sudden it's been happening for the last 20 years. Arguably for the last 50 years.

Freedom, democracy, and individual rights. This is what is supposed to set us apart. It is what makes our system the better. The best. Different. If we do collapse how can one make an arguable case for democracy? It will always eventually be triumphed by a tyranny of some sort. Apathy, stupidity, and decadance is what is killing our nation. We don't have to decline, we are just choosing not to correct our course. It is not an inevitability. It is something we can change.

Who is willing to though? Who is willing to make the change? Are you? Am I? Are our leaders?

The very fact that our system is collapsing may show that we aren't, in fact, the "best". We aren't a democracy, after all, but a republic, and this might attribute for some of the flaws. But if another country rises to the top, maybe it has indeed found a better way. We're falling and they're rising for a reason, because our system is failing while they've found one that works. Social Darwinism, so to speak.

[Jose]

I agree. =P

We are idiots that sit in front of the tv with our crap filled diapers. The Tv is not only responsiable for our stupidly but also for our wieght. America is the fattest country in the whole world. 1/3 kids is or is going overwieght that is 33% of America's future is already going on the path to desturaction. Along with the TV, Mcdonald's is to blame as well. Mcdonald's targets children by having the play place by have the clown by having birthdays. Mcdonald use's a kids feeling that caring on to there adulthood and they rememeber the fun times they had so they bring there own kids back. It is a never ending cycle of fat diets that will add to this.

[Maikeru D. Shinigami]

Originally Posted by Snowy Owl

The very fact that our system is collapsing may show that we aren't, in fact, the "best". We aren't a democracy, after all, but a republic, and this might attribute for some of the flaws. But if another country rises to the top, maybe it has indeed found a better way. We're falling and they're rising for a reason, because our system is failing while they've found one that works. Social Darwinism, so to speak.

I am a social liberal.

[Maikeru D. Shinigami]

Originally Posted by Jose

I agree. =P

We are idiots that sit in front of the tv with our crap filled diapers. The Tv is not only responsiable for our stupidly but also for our wieght. America is the fattest country in the whole world. 1/3 kids is or is going overwieght that is 33% of America's future is already going on the path to desturaction. Along with the TV, Mcdonald's is to blame as well. Mcdonald's targets children by having the play place by have the clown by having birthdays. Mcdonald use's a kids feeling that caring on to there adulthood and they rememeber the fun times they had so they bring there own kids back. It is a never ending cycle of fat diets that will add to this.

Meh. Fatness doesn't make a bad country, it just makes a country that loves food.

[Jose]

Originally Posted by Maikeru Shinigami

Meh. Fatness doesn't make a bad country, it just makes a country that loves food.

Not now but in the future it will.

Let's face it American's do what ever the we want cause we say "we wont be alive that isnt our problem." So we almost dp whatever knowing there will be long term effect but because we wont be alive for that we dont care.

So it will not be us who witness the full effect of American faliure but our children's children who will have to pay for our choices now.

[Wooster]

Well first of all this is filled with hyperbole. It's a false dichotomy that one can't pay attention to the world and the nation and Lebron James. Secondly outside of Ohio, is anyone really paying that much attention to it? Well, I suppose New York where he might end up.

In terms of the actual problems he mentions, offshore banks are that way because of various onerous regulations in the US. The only reason any nation may be dependent on them is their own debt spending problems. I don't exactly know what his problem is here. Maybe that the backs are charging high rates or are trading default-credit swaps on sovereign wealth? Whatever the case, it's not a problem in the US. I could go into what IS the problem here, but that's probably outside the scope of this thread.

If civilization is going to fall, it will happen in Europe first because it is in much worse shape. In fact contrary to what he said, the US currency is becoming even stronger as the reserve currency. All the other currency is even more suspect.


The only point that he brings up that I agree with mainly, which is very brief, is Iran. That will be a problem in the near future. At this point, no matter what happens it's going to be a big problem. Even if the US military bombs the nuclear reactors, it may not be enough at this point.

Well his main point is that people don't care, I guess. Possibly true, but that's not because it's some sort of conspiracy. Not to mention, I believe the number one selling book on Amazon right now is F. A. Hayek's A Road to Serfdom. A society that's not paying attention does not buy and read a book like that. In any case, I think public awareness is at it's typical level.
Sure we are probably all doomed, but I don't know if that's because we aren't paying attention.

There, that's my thoughts. I believe you can't rep me one way or the other.

[Bacon]

That guy only got one thing correct, how our country's state governments almost collapsed.
This guy is making absurd claims when he says that the people cares more about celebrites than what really matters; becuase I ask everyone I know. None of them give a flying flip about them. Obviously, he is taking one small portion of the population and assuming we are all like that.
As for the media, it's our fault completely. Most Americans don't want to know what was passed in the health care bill, they just want lots of pretty pictures to satisfy their short attention spans.If normal people demanded hard hitting and thorough reporting, Msnbc would do that. Although, most people have been media brainwashed dumbheads since for decades. Just look at the Generation who fought World war 2. The whole west coast became an a mosh pit of paranoid idiots.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Gamabunta

Give me your opinion on this video, tell me if you agree, disagree, don't care, or even just your reaction:

YouTube:

Hell I'll give rep to anyone who watches the whole thing and posts their response in this thread.

LeBron who?

[zerosameri]

This guy has some real big issue with LeBron. Basically reading between the lines on what he said this who time is that he's blaming LeBron for the country going down along with other variables. He should not be blaming a guy who going to another team but blame the people the people that need's be blamed. All he said through out that video is a mass of LeBron, Media, and celebrities.

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Well first of all this is filled with hyperbole. It's a false dichotomy that one can't pay attention to the world and the nation and Lebron James. Secondly outside of Ohio, is anyone really paying that much attention to it? Well, I suppose New York where he might end up.

In terms of the actual problems he mentions, offshore banks are that way because of various onerous regulations in the US. The only reason any nation may be dependent on them is their own debt spending problems. I don't exactly know what his problem is here. Maybe that the backs are charging high rates or are trading default-credit swaps on sovereign wealth? Whatever the case, it's not a problem in the US. I could go into what IS the problem here, but that's probably outside the scope of this thread.

If civilization is going to fall, it will happen in Europe first because it is in much worse shape. In fact contrary to what he said, the US currency is becoming even stronger as the reserve currency. All the other currency is even more suspect.


The only point that he brings up that I agree with mainly, which is very brief, is Iran. That will be a problem in the near future. At this point, no matter what happens it's going to be a big problem. Even if the US military bombs the nuclear reactors, it may not be enough at this point.

Well his main point is that people don't care, I guess. Possibly true, but that's not because it's some sort of conspiracy. Not to mention, I believe the number one selling book on Amazon right now is F. A. Hayek's A Road to Serfdom. A society that's not paying attention does not buy and read a book like that. In any case, I think public awareness is at it's typical level.
Sure we are probably all doomed, but I don't know if that's because we aren't paying attention.

There, that's my thoughts. I believe you can't rep me one way or the other.

First off he does exaggerate. That is clearly his job. Like any other pundit he uses shock value.

It's not saying they can't, it's saying they don't. And they really don't. How much time have you guys spent the last week researching politics or history compared to how much you guys have spent on the internet? Or how about even just the forums? And a great more many people care about this than you think. Well if it's not this then it is the bachelor which beats Afghanistan out in the news weekly.

Globalization makes it a problem for everyone. Well not everyone. But for Westerners living in already developed countries. There are many more factors than just the banks. He made a good point about industry. We have literally none of it. It's a system and it has a sink for our out going money (Asia) but it does not have any source of input to keep the system running. The only thing keep us afloat right now is credit. In a way our entire economy is a bubble.

Civilization isn't going to fall. Civilization as we know it maybe. Freedom. Democracy. Sovereignty. Not civilization. The early chapters of the Bible talks about the rise of civilization, and how one way or another we will always end up as slaves of the state.

The main thing was the sentiment he was trying to portray. I understand you did not like his specific examples, or how he said it, but the truth is we do need to change. We are on a crash course with disaster. And you are using a book as an example, that is why it is such a poor example. What percentage of the adult (or adult reading level) age actually reads in their free time?

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by Bacon

That guy only got one thing correct, how our country's state governments almost collapsed.
This guy is making absurd claims when he says that the people cares more about celebrites than what really matters; becuase I ask everyone I know. None of them give a flying flip about them. Obviously, he is taking one small portion of the population and assuming we are all like that.
As for the media, it's our fault completely. Most Americans don't want to know what was passed in the health care bill, they just want lots of pretty pictures to satisfy their short attention spans.If normal people demanded hard hitting and thorough reporting, Msnbc would do that. Although, most people have been media brainwashed dumbheads since for decades. Just look at the Generation who fought World war 2. The whole west coast became an a mosh pit of paranoid idiots.

Is that why the average American couldn't even give you more than four or five presidents? And that is including the one's living in their time. One of my friends who is about as SMART (on a strictly technical level: I scored a 93 on the asvab he scored an 86) as I am, not as informed, didn't even know when the Vietnam war was fought. I bet you the majority of kids on this forum don't know what I'm talking about when I am referring to Normandy, and if they do it's because of some video game.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Gamabunta

First off he does exaggerate. That is clearly his job. Like any other pundit he uses shock value.

It's not saying they can't, it's saying they don't. And they really don't. How much time have you guys spent the last week researching politics or history compared to how much you guys have spent on the internet? Or how about even just the forums? And a great more many people care about this than you think. Well if it's not this then it is the bachelor which beats Afghanistan out in the news weekly.

Globalization makes it a problem for everyone. Well not everyone. But for Westerners living in already developed countries. There are many more factors than just the banks. He made a good point about industry. We have literally none of it. It's a system and it has a sink for our out going money (Asia) but it does not have any source of input to keep the system running. The only thing keep us afloat right now is credit. In a way our entire economy is a bubble.

Civilization isn't going to fall. Civilization as we know it maybe. Freedom. Democracy. Sovereignty. Not civilization. The early chapters of the Bible talks about the rise of civilization, and how one way or another we will always end up as slaves of the state.

The main thing was the sentiment he was trying to portray. I understand you did not like his specific examples, or how he said it, but the truth is we do need to change. We are on a crash course with disaster. And you are using a book as an example, that is why it is such a poor example. What percentage of the adult (or adult reading level) age actually reads in their free time?

Yeah, but it is one thing to say people are distracted, another that it is a conspiracy.

Well, I do those things on the internet and reading magazine and books. And apparently discussing them here.
So people care doesn't mean they are not paying attention to other things. Then there is also daily life and family, most people worry about those things if not national and worldly affairs. Truthfully, those things are more important. As Adam Smith said a man will worry more about his own splinter than the life of a man in China.

I don't worry about the loss of industrial jobs. It makes little difference to me where they are located. Those are really lower level jobs. The US has moved beyond them. Sure it stinks for those with only that experience, but as a whole this is not a problem. Worrying about jobs moving overseas is populism and jingoism. Finally, Europe is in much worse shape than the US, we are much more similar economic wise to Asia.

I don't disagree that civilization may change. The command capitalism of China seems to be on the rise. It is sad that such is the case, but I don't think it is because people are uninformed, it's because that's what they have chosen.

People read, but usually crap. A Road to Serfdom explains how we can lose democracy and freedom. It is outselling all the crap on Amazon at this moment. That's why I used it.

Sorry, if this is a little sloppy, I'm busy. But how did you becoming more pessimistic than me? That's my game.

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Yeah, but it is one thing to say people are distracted, another that it is a conspiracy.

Well, I do those things on the internet and reading magazine and books. And apparently discussing them here.
So people care doesn't mean they are not paying attention to other things. Then there is also daily life and family, most people worry about those things if not national and worldly affairs. Truthfully, those things are more important. As Adam Smith said a man will worry more about his own splinter than the life of a man in China.

I don't worry about the loss of industrial jobs. It makes little difference to me where they are located. Those are really lower level jobs. The US has moved beyond them. Sure it stinks for those with only that experience, but as a whole this is not a problem. Worrying about jobs moving overseas is populism and jingoism. Finally, Europe is in much worse shape than the US, we are much more similar economic wise to Asia.

I don't disagree that civilization may change. The command capitalism of China seems to be on the rise. It is sad that such is the case, but I don't think it is because people are uninformed, it's because that's what they have chosen.

People read, but usually crap. A Road to Serfdom explains how we can lose democracy and freedom. It is outselling all the crap on Amazon at this moment. That's why I used it.

Sorry, if this is a little sloppy, I'm busy. But how did you becoming more pessimistic than me? That's my game.

You are. I am. Hardly anyone else is, beyond the indoctrinated viewers of left and right programs.

You are wrong not too worry. Right now we have no income. We have no money coming in. We are getting poorer by the day. All we are as far as the rest of the world is concerned is the largest market of consumers. What happens when we are too in debt to even buy off of credit?

You cannot have an entire service economy. You need to have some form of industry. At the basic level service jobs are only present to cater to the needs/wants of workers who can pay for them.

Jingoism? What?! How is wanting a functioning economy jingoism? Saying we need to have some industry is not saying we should only buy American products. You need to look up the meaning of jingoism before you use it so grossly out of context. Sure Europe is much worse off than us. Then again what little we do produce we export to Europe. When they fail, we fail. Only real winner is Asia.

Command capitalism is based on the idea that the gov't and state is more important than the individual. More important than the person. Hell more important than the people. Do you really want to live in a world like that?

And you are missing my point. We are on a bad path. I still think we can change the course. That is relatively optimistic seeing what kind of generation will soon be taking the reigns.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Gamabunta

You are. I am. Hardly anyone else is, beyond the indoctrinated viewers of left and right programs.

You are wrong not too worry. Right now we have no income. We have no money coming in. We are getting poorer by the day. All we are as far as the rest of the world is concerned is the largest market of consumers. What happens when we are too in debt to even buy off of credit?

You cannot have an entire service economy. You need to have some form of industry. At the basic level service jobs are only present to cater to the needs/wants of workers who can pay for them.

Jingoism? What?! How is wanting a functioning economy jingoism? Saying we need to have some industry is not saying we should only buy American products. You need to look up the meaning of jingoism before you use it so grossly out of context. Sure Europe is much worse off than us. Then again what little we do produce we export to Europe. When they fail, we fail. Only real winner is Asia.

Command capitalism is based on the idea that the gov't and state is more important than the individual. More important than the person. Hell more important than the people. Do you really want to live in a world like that?

And you are missing my point. We are on a bad path. I still think we can change the course. That is relatively optimistic seeing what kind of generation will soon be taking the reigns.

Eh, people watch what they themselves generally believe. It has always been that way. It has been the exception in the U.S. that we had a center-left standard, which is now being broken up into many diverging views.

Nonsense, trade always involves exchanging something of lesser value for something of greater value. Obviously, if you are borrowing to pay for something that could lead to problems. We can get away with it because the Dollar is the reverse currency. It's the old: if you owe a bank 100,000 dollars, you are in trouble. If you owe the bank 100 million dollars, the bank is in trouble. It maybe unbalanced, but that's what corrections and recessions are for.

You don't necessary need heavy industry. It's comparative advantage. Jobs should be located where they produces the most goods at the most efficient rate. This may not be in the United States, where we may be more efficient at other tasks.

Which brings me back to the jingoism comment. Sorry, I used the term correctly and for a reason. Obsessing over having certain jobs in America and not in or owned by other countries is jingoism. Such as complaining about Indians having tech support jobs or the Dubai Port deal. I did not say that you were supporting these ideas, just that is certainly one of the reasons for wanting "Industry" in America. See the trade unions, you will find quite a few bigots.

Exporting? You want to be a big exporter? See German. Second biggest in the world, but they aren't doing that great are they? Sure better than much of Europe, but they still have problems. This obsession over having an export economy is silly. China has problem as well because it is an export economy. What matters is whatever the economy that it grows.

Yes, command capitalism is not good for individual rights, but it is growing in strength throughout the world. Perhaps it will fail, and democracy will gain in strength again.

Whether I want something or not is irrelevant. Can we change things? I doubt it. You seem to think people are not paying attention. I disagree, they are, and this is what they want. It is certainly for the worse, but history does not always move in a straight line. Perhaps we will have another 1000 years of stagnant growth, no new technology and massive diseases. This can happen; however, I believe it will be world wide if it does.

I do not really believe we can change what is going to happen. I just like to observe and watch. Excuse me if I chuckle a little, but this is what people want. Why should I be that concerned if everyone is hurting themselves. It's not like I'm helping to push. Heck, I will even mention that we are pushing ourselves off a cliff, but if that is what everyone wants to do, so be it.