Kurenai vs. Sugetsu

[Tourune]

Location: were Gaara fought Deidara

Restrictions: no Water monster thing for Sugetsu

Distance: u make it up

Acceptiosn: Kurenai has unlimeted Kunai + Shuricans

[Yellow Flash]

Kurenai is a fodder and featless.

Yeah Kurenai doesn't have any feats to debate this. Sure she has a genjutsu we have seen but she only uses that to be able to get up close and inflict physical damage...which for right now Suigetsu is immune to all physical damage.

Suigetsu takes this.

[Lady Tsunade]

Suigetsu has shown no defence for Genjutsu. And its safe to assume that Tree Binding Death is effective if not used on someone who can break out of it. At close range-if Kurenai were to catch Suigetsu in her genjutsu, the match would probably be more or less over assuming Suigetsu cannot liquify himself while in Genjutsu.

At mid-long range,Suigetsu can swing his sword and cut Kurenais head off.Or alternatively force large blasts of water at her.

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

Suigetsu has shown no defence for Genjutsu. And its safe to assume that Tree Binding Death is effective if not used on someone who can break out of it. At close range-if Kurenai were to catch Suigetsu in her genjutsu, the match would probably be more or less over assuming Suigetsu cannot liquify himself while in Genjutsu.

At mid-long range,Suigetsu can swing his sword and cut Kurenais head off.Or alternatively force large blasts of water at her.

Kurenai's genjutsu is not like Itachi's though..hers is weaker for one and it is used so she can get up close and physically attack her target.

The minute she physically attacks him in real time, he breaks out of genjutsu due to hydration (assuming that disturbs his chakra) and then he swings Decapitator sword gg.

Kurenai's genjutsu is not used to attack but merely to setup for an attack.

[Lady Tsunade]

Originally Posted by Jinchiruuki

Kurenai's genjutsu is not like Itachi's though..hers is weaker for one and it is used so she can get up close and physically attack her target.

The minute she physically attacks him in real time, he breaks out of genjutsu due to hydration (assuming that disturbs his chakra) and then he swings Decapitator sword gg.

Kurenai's genjutsu is not used to attack but merely to setup for an attack.

Does she actually attack with them with a Kunai though?I thought her Genjutsu merely made the target believe they were binded by a tree-and that Kurenai was about to stab them.And when she did, they were manipulated into thinking they felt pain.

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

Does she actually attack with them with a Kunai though?I thought her Genjutsu merely made the target believe they were binded by a tree-and that Kurenai was about to stab them.And when she did, they were manipulated into thinking they felt pain.

Yeah but how can she manipulate Suigetsu into thinking that when he took a full powered punch from KB? He doesn't feel pain...so how could she "trick" him into thinking that. And if she did trick him then he would use hydration technique which is debateably a surge in chakra to form into a body of water or produce an amount of water which would then break him out of it. Err rather Suigetsu doesn't feel pain from physical attacks...but he did from ninjutsu like Chidori.

[Lady Tsunade]

Originally Posted by Jinchiruuki

Yeah but how can she manipulate Suigetsu into thinking that when he took a full powered punch from KB? He doesn't feel pain...so how could she "trick" him into thinking that. And if she did trick him then he would use hydration technique which is debateably a surge in chakra to form into a body of water or produce an amount of water which would then break him out of it. Err rather Suigetsu doesn't feel pain from physical attacks...but he did from ninjutsu like Chidori.

Because its Genjutsu, Genjutsu involves manipulating the targets senses and awareness. It can make people feel pain, see things which aren't really there or even become paralysed. Genjutsu cant cause any physical harm, it merely tricks the brain into thinking that the body is taking pain-and so the brains body suffers-and the body in this case, is Suigetsu.

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

Because its Genjutsu, Genjutsu involves manipulating the targets senses and awareness. It can make people feel pain, see things which aren't really there or even become paralysed. Genjutsu cant cause any physical harm, it merely tricks the brain into thinking that the body is taking pain-and so the brains body suffers-and the body in this case, is Suigetsu.

I know what genjutsu is..
But you are missing my point...Suigetsu DOESN'T feel any physical pain so therefore this wouldn't have any effect on him..if by some chance it did make him feel pain he would realize it wasn't real.

[Lady Tsunade]

Originally Posted by Jinchiruuki

I know what genjutsu is..
But you are missing my point...Suigetsu DOESN'T feel any physical pain so therefore this wouldn't have any effect on him..if by some chance it did make him feel pain he would realize it wasn't real.

No, he doesn't feel any PHYSICAL pain. There is no proof to suggest he cannot feel pain in general, he still has nerve cells and a brain like anyone else,so I don't see why not.And even if he did realise it wasn't real, he would still be under the Genjutsu- and thus be binded.Unable to escape.

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

No, he doesn't feel any PHYSICAL pain. There is no proof to suggest he cannot feel pain in general, he still has nerve cells and a brain like anyone else,so I don't see why not.And even if he did realise it wasn't real, he would still be under the Genjutsu- and thus be binded.Unable to escape.

You just proved my point with your first sentence...so how can Kurenai trick him into feeling PHYSICAL pain when he doesn't in real time? That's what her technique does...tricks her opponents into thinking they feel PHYSICAL pain.

[Lady Tsunade]

Originally Posted by Jinchiruuki

You just proved my point with your first sentence...so how can Kurenai trick him into feeling PHYSICAL pain when he doesn't in real time? That's what her technique does...tricks her opponents into thinking they feel PHYSICAL pain.

Because it isn't actual physical pain xD
Its only what his body percieves it to be. The only reason he can't feel physical pain is because he turns into water before any attacks -like a punch or a sword; reach him. But this technique affects the brain.So he can't just turn into water afer being put under the effects-and thus should feel pain.

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

Because it isn't actual physical pain xD
Its only what his body percieves it to be. The only reason he can't feel physical pain is because he turns into water before any attacks -like a punch or a sword; reach him. But this technique affects the brain.So he can't just turn into water afer being put under the effects-and thus should feel pain.

Suigetsu's body won't percieve it to be anything since he doesn't feel physical pain That's all there is to it...you can't say he doesn't feel physical pain and then say a genjutsu will make/trick him into thinking he does when he knows no physical attacks have an effect on him. Doesn't matter if it affects his brain and central nervous system...he has not ever been affected by physical attacks...whether it be from KB, Karin or getting chopped in half by that crony in the mansion.

[Lady Tsunade]

Originally Posted by Jinchiruuki

Suigetsu's body won't percieve it to be anything since he doesn't feel physical pain That's all there is to it...you can't say he doesn't feel physical pain and then say a genjutsu will make/trick him into thinking he does when he knows no physical attacks have an effect on him. Doesn't matter if it affects his brain and central nervous system...he has not ever been affected by physical attacks...whether it be from KB, Karin or getting chopped in half by that crony in the mansion.

Ill repeat what I said before:
"The only reason he can't feel physical pain is because he turns into water before any attacks -like a punch or a sword; reach him"

This happens whenever he is physically hit with something, and thus he turns his body into water to avoid damage. He is not being hit with anything except an illusion in his brain affecting his senses.So Im quite sure-he can be hit

[Nyruss]

Kurenai is subfodder, there is no scenario in which she could ever defeat Suigetsu. EVER.

The idea that Kurenai's one piece of garbage genjutsu would save her from being torn limb from limb in the first yoctosecond of the fight is laughable.

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

Ill repeat what I said before:
"The only reason he can't feel physical pain is because he turns into water before any attacks -like a punch or a sword; reach him"

This happens whenever he is physically hit with something, and thus he turns his body into water to avoid damage. He is not being hit with anything except an illusion in his brain affecting his senses.So Im quite sure-he can be hit

Wrong...he is made of water..the human body is 70% water...Suigetsu is clearly more than that....do you really think he had the reaction time to turn into water when KB blitzed him and punched him in the stomache? And you are wrong about he turns into it after or before being hit...as seen when he goes through a fence when Sasuke interogates a lightning shinobi for the whereabouts of KB.

I don't think he can be hit physically and recieve damage/pain from said physical attack...and there are no feats to prove otherwise.

[Lady Tsunade]

Originally Posted by Jinchiruuki

Wrong...he is made of water..the human body is 70% water...Suigetsu is clearly more than that....do you really think he had the reaction time to turn into water when KB blitzed him and punched him in the stomache? And you are wrong about he turns into it after or before being hit...as seen when he goes through a fence when Sasuke interogates a lightning shinobi for the whereabouts of KB.

I don't think he can be hit physically and recieve damage/pain from said physical attack...and there are no feats to prove otherwise.

He is not being hit physically ,as I have said before-he is being hit mentally, and being forced into thinking hes taking physical damage.He can't turn into a water form while under a Genjutsu-because when you are in Genjutsu.Generally you cannot move,and only see your movements in your head.

You are giving me feats where he was phyiscally attacked, and that is all fine and well.But he is not being attacked physically,but mentally-and being tricked into feeling physical damage(which he can only not feel because he reveals his water form). Perhaps,perhaps a kunai would not work.But if that were the case, she could attach an exploding tag to her kunai and pierce Suigetsu with it-where he would indefintly feel damage.

[Nyruss]

Good thing for Suigetsu that Kurenai will be dead long before she gets the chance to try her only genjutsu on him.

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

He is not being hit physically ,as I have said before-he is being hit mentally, and being forced into thinking hes taking physical damage.He can't turn into a water form while under a Genjutsu-because when you are in Genjutsu.Generally you cannot move,and only see your movements in your head.

You are giving me feats where he was phyiscally attacked, and that is all fine and well.But he is not being attacked physically,but mentally-and being tricked into feeling physical damage(which he can only not feel because he reveals his water form). Perhaps,perhaps a kunai would not work.But if that were the case, she could attach an exploding tag to her kunai and pierce Suigetsu with it-where he would indefintly feel damage.

You can't force someone into thinking they are physically damaged when they know they can't be physically damaged...I don't see how that would work. Suigetsu purposefully takes physical hits....like he did with that guy who cut him in half and same with KB. Kurenai's genjutsu as I said earlier is meant to bind the target and physically afflict them in real time...and this would have no affect on Suigetsu...same goes for "tricking" him into feeling physical attacks in this genjutsu.

There are still no feats to prove otherwise.

[tanduhman]

Originally Posted by Lady Tsunade

He is not being hit physically ,as I have said before-he is being hit mentally, and being forced into thinking hes taking physical damage.He can't turn into a water form while under a Genjutsu-because when you are in Genjutsu.Generally you cannot move,and only see your movements in your head.

You are giving me feats where he was phyiscally attacked, and that is all fine and well.But he is not being attacked physically,but mentally-and being tricked into feeling physical damage(which he can only not feel because he reveals his water form). Perhaps,perhaps a kunai would not work.But if that were the case, she could attach an exploding tag to her kunai and pierce Suigetsu with it-where he would indefintly feel damage.

this is ture.. due to the brain being the oly reason that we feel pain in the first place, because it sends, and recives messages of pain in a millisecond the fact that a gengutsu does no actual physical damage. Its working throughout the mind and sending a fake message to the brain that suigetsu would be under pain.

@Jin- i really do not see how you do not understand this.. yes he does not feel pain, but according to a gengutsu his brain would make him think that he is feeling pain although he really isnt. Although hence feeling the fake pain suigetsu would know that he is under a gengutsu, but just knowing that you are in a gengutsu does not stop you from experiencing the fake pain. Just like how kakashi "knew he was in itachis tsuky, he still felt the imaginary pain. Suigetsu although could get himself out of the gengutsu by releasing chakra.